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Tovan Khev Needs to Be Dismissable

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  • captpeacemakercaptpeacemaker Member Posts: 230 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I guess he is just another one of those items that you pick up along the way that will just sit there forever. Like the ground stuff you pick up on new Romulus that just sits in your inventory.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Thowchum
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  • fernandojimenezfernandojimenez Member Posts: 76 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    marc8219 wrote: »
    Well he shouldn't be dismissable as a lot of epsiodes would have to be reworked and I would rather have devs time spent on developing new content instead of rewriting content that is already good.

    He is a fairly decent space boff for new characters and an excellent ground boff that makes ground content easier so its not really so much of a problem being forced to keep him.

    Boff slots are cheap though, and most of you have Fed mains with dil saved up on them that you aren't using since you are playing your Romulan now, get some of that dil and buy zen, it is only a few days worth of dil.

    This, deal with it or leave.
  • jermbotjermbot Member Posts: 801 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    This, deal with it or leave.

    Really? Those are our only two choices? I'd thought a politely petitioning Cryptic for a change of the game based on our requests would be an option...
  • darkelfofficerdarkelfofficer Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    marc8219 wrote: »
    Well he shouldn't be dismissable as a lot of epsiodes would have to be reworked and I would rather have devs time spent on developing new content instead of rewriting content that is already good.

    He is a fairly decent space boff for new characters and an excellent ground boff that makes ground content easier so its not really so much of a problem being forced to keep him.

    Boff slots are cheap though, and most of you have Fed mains with dil saved up on them that you aren't using since you are playing your Romulan now, get some of that dil and buy zen, it is only a few days worth of dil.

    No. I will not be blackmailed into buying more officer slots because Cryptic took one away from me for playing a Romulan.

    As for story, his contributions to the story are virtually negligible. He exposits on the evilness of the Tal Shiar, tells us his ex-girlfriend used to be a good person, and his sister has gone missing. That's all he does. The first one is unnecessary, and the second and third ones can be fulfilled from the Flotilla, not that the thing about his sister actually has any bearing on anything or goes anywhere.

    So the only useful thing he does story-wise, and the only thing that can't reasonably be accomplished through any other bridge officer, is tell the player a Tal Shiar agent used to be trustworthy. Pretty sure that's not an insurmountable hurdle to making him dismissable.
  • fernandojimenezfernandojimenez Member Posts: 76 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    jermbot wrote: »
    Really? Those are our only two choices? I'd thought a politely petitioning Cryptic for a change of the game based on our requests would be an option...

    It's a game desing, if you don't like it, don't play it or take an alternative to complain, buy an extra Boff slot but cry for a change is cheap and free, you know.
  • jexsamxjexsamx Member Posts: 2,803 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I suppose he could be moved from BOff to just a presence on your ship. That way he can be present for everything story-wise he needs to be without holding a BOff slot hostage. Leaving him at the Flotilla would require quite a few more rewrites and tweaks, and doing so really doesn't make your BOff slot any freer than simply moving him to your ship.
  • phoeniciusphoenicius Member Posts: 762 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    marc8219 wrote: »
    Well he shouldn't be dismissable as a lot of epsiodes would have to be reworked and I would rather have devs time spent on developing new content instead of rewriting content that is already good.

    He is a fairly decent space boff for new characters and an excellent ground boff that makes ground content easier so its not really so much of a problem being forced to keep him.

    Boff slots are cheap though, and most of you have Fed mains with dil saved up on them that you aren't using since you are playing your Romulan now, get some of that dil and buy zen, it is only a few days worth of dil.

    i'm just curious what that has to do with anything? tovan's lines show up even when you don't have him in either ground or space boff setup, you don't really need him on your setup for that, he basically a NPC that happens to be a boff too.

    i've watched pretty much every tovan scene when i leveled my rom with either my human fed tac officer or satra in his place speaking with his voice for some random reason, it was funny and also invalidates your argument that he is "needed" for the episodes.
  • jermbotjermbot Member Posts: 801 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    It's a game desing, if you don't like it, don't play it or take an alternative to complain, buy an extra Boff slot but cry for a change is cheap and free, you know.

    A quick review of your posting history uncovers a post where you are, 'sad, very sad' about a design decision. You weren't even invested enough to productively suggest alternatives, you were just complaining in the cheapest most unproductive way imaginable.

    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=9487191&postcount=1

    Now, I'm not going to imply that you're a hypocrite, clearly these are two entirely different situations. But please do take a moment to think about how you're coming off now and decide if you should so quickly try to marginalize and silence feedback given to Cryptic.
  • fernandojimenezfernandojimenez Member Posts: 76 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    jermbot wrote: »
    A quick review of your posting history uncovers a post where you are, 'sad, very sad' about a design decision. You weren't even invested enough to productively suggest alternatives, you were just complaining in the cheapest most unproductive way imaginable.

    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=9487191&postcount=1

    Now, I'm not going to imply that you're a hypocrite, clearly these are two entirely different situations. But please do take a moment to think about how you're coming off now and decide if you should so quickly try to marginalize and silence feedback given to Cryptic.

    I'm playing the romulans actually and have a lot of fun with them, can you do the same and complain less or complain is more fun for you? So buy the extra slot and have fun, bro ;). The horse is dead, Jim ;).
  • marc8219marc8219 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    phoenicius wrote: »
    i'm just curious what that has to do with anything? tovan's lines show up even when you don't have him in either ground or space boff setup, you don't really need him on your setup for that, he basically a NPC that happens to be a boff too.

    i've watched pretty much every tovan scene when i leveled my rom with either my human fed tac officer or satra in his place speaking with his voice for some random reason, it was funny and also invalidates your argument that he is "needed" for the episodes.

    That is a bug it is supposed to be Tovan appearing. He needs to be a boff because if he wasn't part of your crew it wouldn't make sense for his dialog to appear during missions.
    Tala -KDF Tac- House of Beautiful Orions
  • jermbotjermbot Member Posts: 801 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I'm playing the romulans actually and have a lot of fun with them, can you do the same and complain less or complain is more fun for you? So buy the extra slot and have fun, bro ;). The horse is dead, Jim ;).

    I'm glad you got over your melancholy about the Romulans not being a faction. I'm saddened to see that, when given a chance to be retrospective about your own actions in a similar situation, you instead resort to insulting people.

    Thank you for your time fernandojimenez, I think the best thing for all of us will be for you to head right back in and start enjoying the game some more. Don't even give this thread another thought, just log in, play your Romulan and have fun!
    marc8219 wrote: »
    That is a bug it is supposed to be Tovan appearing. He needs to be a boff because if he wasn't part of your crew it wouldn't make sense for his dialog to appear during missions.

    The point you missed was one of game mechanics and not one of roleplay or immersion. Tovan's dialogue will appear whether he is in your away team or not, so there is nothing in the game code that will break if Tovan isn't present.

    Now, if it seems a little bizarre to you that you're getting dialogue from Tovan when he's not there, that's an issue that everyone will be affected by to varying degrees. You, apparently, think it would be game breaking enough to saddle every Romulan player with Tovan, whether they want him or not. I, if I decided to dispose of Tovan, would be mildly amused by hearing him talk to me when I replayed the Romulan starter missions, it'd be like a nostalgia moment. An earlier poster mentioned that he skips through all the dialogue whenever he replays missions so he wouldn't notice. Overall, the effect from this would be minor.
  • leviathan99#2867 leviathan99 Member Posts: 7,747 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    There are missions where he is automatically selected as a BO and is the only one usable, I believe.
  • fernandojimenezfernandojimenez Member Posts: 76 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    jermbot wrote: »
    I'm glad you got over your melancholy about the Romulans not being a faction. I'm saddened to see that, when given a chance to be retrospective about your own actions in a similar situation, you instead resort to insulting people.

    Thank you for your time fernandojimenez, I think the best thing for all of us will be for you to head right back in and start enjoying the game some more. Don't even give this thread another thought, just log in, play your Romulan and have fun!

    Thanks ;), I have seen the light, less complain and more play, I hope you can see the light too my friend.
    If you feel insulted for that I'm sorry but it is your choice, good luck.
  • marc8219marc8219 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    No. I will not be blackmailed into buying more officer slots because Cryptic took one away from me for playing a Romulan.

    As for story, his contributions to the story are virtually negligible. He exposits on the evilness of the Tal Shiar, tells us his ex-girlfriend used to be a good person, and his sister has gone missing. That's all he does. The first one is unnecessary, and the second and third ones can be fulfilled from the Flotilla, not that the thing about his sister actually has any bearing on anything or goes anywhere.

    So the only useful thing he does story-wise, and the only thing that can't reasonably be accomplished through any other bridge officer, is tell the player a Tal Shiar agent used to be trustworthy. Pretty sure that's not an insurmountable hurdle to making him dismissable.

    I really find it hard to have any sympathy for people being "forced" into keeping a very rare boff, and don't think the devs need to waste time on this when there are more important fixes needed and more new content.
    Tala -KDF Tac- House of Beautiful Orions
  • pegasuscicpegasuscic Member Posts: 157 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I hear ya but at the same time rather like the way he is built into the storyline and I imagine there might be issues with the missions if he were to be dismissed. Perhaps he could simply be upgraded to a purple quality officer, or as the above poster suggested we could be given an extra single boff slot?

    I'm pretty sure Tvon already is "purple" quality. The other 3 aren't though. I kinda wish they would be though.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] "There's a reason you separate military and the police. One fights the enemies of the state, the other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people."-Commander William Adama
  • jermbotjermbot Member Posts: 801 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Thanks ;), I have seen the light, less complain and more play, I hope you can see the light too my friend.

    Oh boy, okay, things I have "complained" about. And by complain I mean, "provided the feedback that Cryptic encourages us to give."

    1. Lack of a Romulan faction. I wasn't alone in this, not by any means. But our voices were heard.
    2. Lack of Federation carriers. Wasn't even that invested in that decision but if you must put that on someone's doorstep, feel free. I did speak out in favor of them and even made a post suggesting that a Tholian lockbox carrier would be a good compromise.
    3. Lack of Allied ships for the KDF. Still love my Guramba, thanks Cryptic.
    4. The "Fleet Escort" being "stuck with" an engineering ensign. Bear in mind, this was back in the olden days when the Patrol Escort was called the "Fleet Escort" and when people actually thought the Advanced Escort was a better pick because of its science ensign. Oh how things have changed.
    5. Lack of end game content. Still "complaining" about that one, by the way, whenever I get an idea.
    6. Lack of a sword melee weapon. Yep, I was asking for a sabre back when the only melee weapons available were Bat'leths. I blame JJ Abrams.

    What's the point of this list? Giving feedback works, it works for players, it works for developers, it works for the game as a whole. So when someone who's 'seen the light' comes along and tries to shut down the feedback process for whatever reason they have that day, that is bad for the game.
  • marc8219marc8219 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    jermbot wrote: »

    The point you missed was one of game mechanics and not one of roleplay or immersion. Tovan's dialogue will appear whether he is in your away team or not, so there is nothing in the game code that will break if Tovan isn't present.

    Now, if it seems a little bizarre to you that you're getting dialogue from Tovan when he's not there, that's an issue that everyone will be affected by to varying degrees. You, apparently, think it would be game breaking enough to saddle every Romulan player with Tovan, whether they want him or not. I, if I decided to dispose of Tovan, would be mildly amused by hearing him talk to me when I replayed the Romulan starter missions, it'd be like a nostalgia moment. An earlier poster mentioned that he skips through all the dialogue whenever he replays missions so he wouldn't notice. Overall, the effect from this would be minor.

    This issue is also minor and so are the costs for boff slots, and you get 2 when you buy them. You will be able to have the boffs you want without making the missions look weird where you have other boffs saying Tovans lines with his voice. Being "forced" to keep a purple boff isn't the end of the world, if you really don't like him you won't mind saving up 4 days worth of dil to get the zen needed if you don't already have that lying around on another character. Not worth wasting the devs time when they have more pressing issues, and I doubt they will change content that is already released and people are enjoying.
    Tala -KDF Tac- House of Beautiful Orions
  • jermbotjermbot Member Posts: 801 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    marc8219 wrote: »
    This issue is also minor and so are the costs for boff slots, and you get 2 when you buy them. You will be able to have the boffs you want without making the missions look weird where you have other boffs saying Tovans lines with his voice. Being "forced" to keep a purple boff isn't the end of the world, if you really don't like him you won't mind saving up 4 days worth of dil to get the zen needed if you don't already have that lying around on another character. Not worth wasting the devs time when they have more pressing issues, and I doubt they will change content that is already released and people are enjoying.

    Yes, thank you, this point has been raised and addressed already. Tovan as a representation of lost optimization, forced payments, or loss of customization is, I will agree, a minor issue.

    But a minor issue is still an issue. And as for whether it's an issue worth 'wasting the devs time,' we will provide our feedback, the devs will decide if it's a waste of time, not you or I.
  • jermbotjermbot Member Posts: 801 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    pegasuscic wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure Tvon already is "purple" quality. The other 3 aren't though. I kinda wish they would be though.

    Yeah, I'm quite fond of Veril, for some reason. I'd really love for a way to upgrade BOFFs.
  • phoeniciusphoenicius Member Posts: 762 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    marc8219 wrote: »
    That is a bug it is supposed to be Tovan appearing. He needs to be a boff because if he wasn't part of your crew it wouldn't make sense for his dialog to appear during missions.

    i'm simply saying cryptic could change so that he is just another NPC in your ship, like that trill liutenant you have during the b'vat storyline fedside, the lines obviously don't need him, just... change it a bit so his face shows up at all times when he saying something lol, they gotta fix that anyway with other boffs showing up in his place.
  • fernandojimenezfernandojimenez Member Posts: 76 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    jermbot wrote: »
    Oh boy, okay, things I have "complained" about. And by complain I mean, "provided the feedback that Cryptic encourages us to give."

    1. Lack of a Romulan faction. I wasn't alone in this, not by any means. But our voices were heard.
    2. Lack of Federation carriers. Wasn't even that invested in that decision but if you must put that on someone's doorstep, feel free. I did speak out in favor of them and even made a post suggesting that a Tholian lockbox carrier would be a good compromise.
    3. Lack of Allied ships for the KDF. Still love my Guramba, thanks Cryptic.
    4. The "Fleet Escort" being "stuck with" an engineering ensign. Bear in mind, this was back in the olden days when the Patrol Escort was called the "Fleet Escort" and when people actually thought the Advanced Escort was a better pick because of its science ensign. Oh how things have changed.
    5. Lack of end game content. Still "complaining" about that one, by the way, whenever I get an idea.
    6. Lack of a sword melee weapon. Yep, I was asking for a sabre back when the only melee weapons available were Bat'leths. I blame JJ Abrams.

    What's the point of this list? Giving feedback works, it works for players, it works for developers, it works for the game as a whole. So when someone who's 'seen the light' comes along and tries to shut down the feedback process for whatever reason they have that day, that is bad for the game.

    Ok, lets go.

    1. It's a dead horse so I stoped to beat it.
    2. Federation carriers? You like them a lot, I see, but Federation is Federation and KDF is KDF, if you like carriers play more KDF, It is not a game breaking, you can still play STO but hey, is your choice "Feds need carrier, KDF have a lot of them, I want them now", lets go.
    3. More pure klingon ships, please ;).
    4. It is your point of view, it is a viable ship, do you think it can be better? Ok, it is your opinion, it is not a game breaking, you can still play STO.
    5. "In your opinion". STO have his "end game style", if you don't like it...
    6. Melee weapons!!!???...

    Everyone has an opinion. Everyone likes to call it "feedback". STO could have 100.000 players/devs but.... You can express your opinion, just all. We are players, lets play then. Do you think you will save STO? Really?.
  • jermbotjermbot Member Posts: 801 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Everyone has an opinion. Everyone likes to call it "feedback". STO could have 100.000 players/devs but.... You can express your opinion, just all.

    Okay, this point clearly flew right over your head. I don't need your opinion on the previous feedback I gave, those examples were only to show you that FEEDBACK WORKS. Probably more so than any other MMO I've played, the developers of STO listen to their community, they respond and when the options are available, they try to give the players of their games what they want.

    So yes, I will continue to express my opinions. And I would suggest the next time that you, as someone who is neither a developer, community moderator, employee of Cryptic, or anyone of any sort of authority, feel the desire to tell people to stop giving feedback, you stifle that urge. It's not your place to tell us what will and will not happen and it's certainly not your place to encourage people to leave the game.

    Cryptic will sort the good feedback from the bad, the productive posts from the ones that only talk about how sad players are about things that haven't happened, and they will make decisions that they believe are best for the game. They don't need your 'help.'
  • amasiaraamasiara Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I'd like to get rid of him too.
  • marc8219marc8219 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    jermbot wrote: »
    Yes, thank you, this point has been raised and addressed already. Tovan as a representation of lost optimization, forced payments, or loss of customization is, I will agree, a minor issue.

    But a minor issue is still an issue. And as for whether it's an issue worth 'wasting the devs time,' we will provide our feedback, the devs will decide if it's a waste of time, not you or I.

    It is an issue that only affects those that are F2P and don't want to use Tovan, and is easily remedied by a small purchase that only costs $2.50 or roughly 32k dil. That isn't so much to ask for in a f2p game, if you want more customization you have to pay for it.

    If you are subscriber you have so much boff slots that it is no issue for most of us.
    Tala -KDF Tac- House of Beautiful Orions
  • jermbotjermbot Member Posts: 801 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    marc8219 wrote: »
    It is an issue that only affects those that are F2P and don't want to use Tovan, and is easily remedied by a small purchase that only costs $2.50 or roughly 32k dil. That isn't so much to ask for in a f2p game, if you want more customization you have to pay for it.

    If you are subscriber you have so much boff slots that it is no issue for most of us.

    Yes, I am aware of the possible solutions to not wanting to use Tovan, thank you. Most players in this game are silver players and those silver players are not asking for "more customization." They are asking for "as much customization" as the first two factions receive. It's not an unreasonable request.
  • fernandojimenezfernandojimenez Member Posts: 76 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    jermbot wrote: »
    Okay, this point clearly flew right over your head. I don't need your opinion on the previous feedback I gave, those examples were only to show you that FEEDBACK WORKS. Probably more so than any other MMO I've played, the developers of STO listen to their community, they respond and when the options are available, they try to give the players of their games what they want.

    So yes, I will continue to express my opinions. And I would suggest the next time that you, as someone who is neither a developer, community moderator, employee of Cryptic, or anyone of any sort of authority, feel the desire to tell people to stop giving feedback, you stifle that urge. It's not your place to tell us what will and will not happen and it's certainly not your place to encourage people to leave the game.

    Cryptic will sort the good feedback from the bad, the productive posts from the ones that only talk about how sad players are about things that haven't happened, and they will make decisions that they believe are best for the game. They don't need your 'help.'

    Do you think you can save STO? Really?. I don't like Feds carriers, I don't want more klingon allies ships, etc etc. Are your opinions...ehem..feedbacks better than mine?. We are players, lets play ;).
  • marc8219marc8219 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    phoenicius wrote: »
    i'm simply saying cryptic could change so that he is just another NPC in your ship, like that trill liutenant you have during the b'vat storyline fedside, the lines obviously don't need him, just... change it a bit so his face shows up at all times when he saying something lol, they gotta fix that anyway with other boffs showing up in his place.

    That might not work very good with him being an npc and a boff, sometimes there might be 2 of him appearing. Given he is introduced as a security officer and has great ground traits it wouldn't make sense for the story to show him as just tagging along on the away team and not actually fighting. I think its best to leave him as a boff.
    Tala -KDF Tac- House of Beautiful Orions
  • jermbotjermbot Member Posts: 801 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Do you think you can save STO? Really?. I don't like Feds carriers, I don't want more klingon allies ships, etc etc. Are your opinions...ehem..feedbacks better than mine?. We are players, lets play ;).

    Well, my feedback ends up being things that I would like to see as a player and guides Cryptic on how best to extract money from my bank account. Your feedback, at least in this post has been, "Shut up! Stop playing STO if you don't like it! Don't give feedback because your opinions suck!"

    So yes, until you start giving good feedback, mine is objectively better than yours.
    I'd argue that City of Heroes was better at responding to player feedback but my opinions there are prejudice rather than unbiased. ;)

    RIP. Still wish I'd gotten my tubby soldier of Arachnos up to level cap.
  • fernandojimenezfernandojimenez Member Posts: 76 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    jermbot wrote: »
    Well, my feedback ends up being things that I would like to see as a player and guides Cryptic on how best to extract money from my bank account. Your feedback, at least in this post has been, "Shut up! Stop playing STO if you don't like it! Don't give feedback because your opinions suck!"

    So yes, until you start giving good feedback, mine is objectively better than yours.



    RIP. Still wish I'd gotten my tubby soldier of Arachnos up to level cap.

    I don't think so ;). My feedback was "buy an extra slot an go on", money for Crytic now, you know ;), your was, "give me, give me...I promise I'll buy all", can you see the difference? ;).
  • jermbotjermbot Member Posts: 801 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I don't think so ;). My feedback was "buy an extra slot an go on", money for Crytic now, you know ;), your was, "give me, give me...I promise I'll buy all", can you see the difference? ;).

    Interesting, and given precisely how charming you are, how likely is it that you'll convince someone else to spend money?

    Because I've got to tell you, after talking to you, I'm less likely to do anything you suggest. Cryptic may not survive too much of your 'feedback.'
This discussion has been closed.