Lack of Defense part of balancing?

virusdancer · May 2013

Escorts (whether you're talking Raptors, Raiders, Warships, Destroyers, Heavy Destroyers, Heavy Escort Carriers (though not the JHEC for some reason - should rename it to some sort of FDLC instead)) have an additional +10% Bonus Defense while moving.

Non-Escort:
24+ Impulse = +45%
9 Maneuvers = +15%
Elusive = +10%
Bonus Defense = +70%

Escort:
24+ Impulse = +45%
9 Maneuvers = +15%
Elusive = +10%
Escort = +10%
Bonus Defense = +80%

That's not counting any additional gear, BOFFs, abilities, etc, etc, etc.

Warbirds do not get the +10% Escort Bonus Defense. While one might see that for the Battle Cruiser and Guardian Warbirds, one might find themselves scratching their heads while looking at the others.

Non-Escort:
Ha'apax
Ha'nom
Haaknona
D'deridex

Escort:
Ha'feh
T'varo
Dhelan
Mogai

Was one thing when the BOFFs actually had the racial trait - but that got changed pretty early on. Was this something that was kept to balance other things then?

spectrfang · May 2013

I think because the warbirds get the singularity powers (quantum absorption, Warp Shadow and singularity jump) is the reason that they took that defense bonus off. Those power giving a surprising amount of defense.

f8explorer · May 2013

spectrfang wrote: »

I think because the warbirds get the singularity powers (quantum absorption, Warp Shadow and singularity jump) is the reason that they took that defense bonus off. Those power giving a surprising amount of defense.

I was wondering where the tradeoff was and believe you hit the nail on the head here.

I miss the bonus but would not want to give up the singularity core perks for it.

cryhavok101 · May 2013

I thought the singularity powers were balanced by the -10 power to all subsystems compared to warp core equiped ships. Are you says there is more they took away for them? They are getting less and less worthwhile.

stirling191 · May 2013

virusdancer wrote: »

Was one thing when the BOFFs actually had the racial trait - but that got changed pretty early on. Was this something that was kept to balance other things then?

Given the unique ability of Rommies to stack 5x dual Superior Operative / Subterfuge or Superior Infiltrator / Subterfuge boffs, having the additional +10 to defense would have been waaaaaaay over the top. Toss in the Dhelan 2-piece...and you would have a build that could in theory cap out defense-wise in the 120-130s defense (if my head-math is even ballpark accurate).

It also explains why my Mogai was only in the mid 80 defense range when I was expecting her to be higher...

f8explorer · May 2013

cryhavok101 wrote: »

I thought the singularity powers were balanced by the -10 power to all subsystems compared to warp core equiped ships. Are you says there is more they took away for them? They are getting less and less worthwhile.

THAT is a good point as they power drop off in your levels can be a bit of a downside ... and that IS what they originally said ... so ... strike my last.

antoniosalieri · May 2013

As long as fed and klingons are never giving the ability to have a full boat of romulan bridge officers... this is just fine.

In my warbird my standing still defense number is something like 34%... the bridge officer bonuses along with the inate Romulan and Reman captain bonuses to defense are pretty high. If I got a free 10% bonus. It would just be to much.

virusdancer · May 2013

Were they to have the +10%, they would have +6.25% over a Raider. As it stands, the Raider has +3.75% over the Warbird.

5x 3.75% BOFFs
1x 2.5% Captain

vs.

4x 3.75% BOFFs
1x 10% Escort

That's if folks go Sub/Infiltrator.

If they go Op, well...the Raider currently has +7.5% over the Warbird or the Warbird could have +2.5% over the Raider with the +10%.

Yep, it's just: 2.5%-6.25% vs. 3.75%-7.5%

Small numbers. Was just a simple question...not a complaint or anything.

I mean, heck, as is...my cloaked T'varo is sporting 135% Defense before any abilities - can push that over 200% for short periods. Course, there's massive diminishing returns...

Somebody with Accurate, 9 Targeting, [Acc]x3 Disruptors, the Nukara Consoles, and they could have more but I'm not logged in to check...would have +65% Accuracy.

Again, there's diminishing returns - for example:

vs. 85%: 83.3% To-Hit
vs. 135%: 58.8% To-Hit
vs. 185%: 45.5% To-Hit
vs. 235%: 37.0% To-Hit

The first +50% Defense results in a loss of 24.5% To-Hit.
The second +50% Defense results in a loss of 13.3% To-Hit.
Another +50% Defense results in a loss of 8.5% To-Hit.

There's a min 25% To-Hit...

Again, wasn't a complaint...just a question. One of those, did you mean to do this sort of things. I know that's kind of bad, shows a lack of confidence...but meh, kind of where things are.

stirling191 · May 2013

If memory serves, Superior Infiltrator is 3.75% defense by itself.

uhdona · May 2013

Personally even with the draw back's i find singularity power's still outperform. +10% defense and +10 base power to all my system's never saved me like a fully charged singularity has. Nothing like a free shield heal + hp buffer while i repair my hull after catching a rather nasty burst. In my fed escort's i would have been killed shortly after such a hit. In my warbird i actually have a rather decent chance to survive.

marshalericdavid · May 2013

I have a T'Varo and Mogai that won't reach 80 defense even with Elusive trait and full points spent on Starship Maneuvers and have Engines with 70+ power.

I think the only Romulan ship that can reach 80 Defense without having Aegis set is the Dhelan Warbird Retrofit with the 2 piece set.

If I am correct and not just experiencing a bug then this is a money grab attempt to get money from people who want to fly a ship with max defense.

tenkari · May 2013

cryhavok101 wrote: »

I thought the singularity powers were balanced by the -10 power to all subsystems compared to warp core equiped ships. Are you says there is more they took away for them? They are getting less and less worthwhile.

actually, it was changed, they now only get a -5 to all power levels.

as an aside.... im pretty sure warbirds aren't classed as escorts, since they are their own type of ship. it's quiet possible they didnt give any sort of defense bonus to warbirds as it would apply to eery single rom ship.

stirling191 · May 2013

tenkari wrote: »

actually, it was changed, they now only get a -5 to all power levels.

Incorrect. -5 was reverted to -10 at the same time the 40 second CD on Rommie BC was reverted to the original 20 second CD.

caelrassto · May 2013

I think there is no escort defense because of the Romulan BOs we have access to. Almost all of them have Subterfuge, which gives a bonus to defense. In my Fleet Dhelan (no console bonus) at max impulse I had 81.5% defense, just flying in a straight line no abilities, no combat. Not all my BOs have Subterfuge, and I'm not fully maxed on Maneuvers.

warzerior · May 2013

Not to mention all have battle cloak...

Lack of Defense part of balancing?

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