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Sci - victoms of the biggest troll ever
the1tigglet
Member Posts: 1,421 Arc User
So I've been adjusting my science captain to have skills to will be great to combine under the banner that "oh yeah balance will definitely be our focus in the new LoR development" and even with the new traits shields block everything, even if the shields have 10 hitpoints on them the kinetic blast from any kinetic ability has complete 0 effectiveness.
Can we have some game balance please? We need you to take some time out and make it so that when enemy ships shields reach 50% this reduces their kinetic resistance so that we can actually take out some ships without being pigeonholed into a single build type. (seems plasma is still the only one for science) (and no I haven't tried the new weapons I saw the nanite thing but that's not what I'm talking about, I'm talking about skills).
Charged particle burst
Photonic shockwave
Nadeon burst torpedo
the kinetic damage from repulsor beams
All useless.
And now with the new enemies having teleport powers, tractor beams are useless too. So what exactly should we spec with hmm?
I'd love to have a dev tell me.
Can we have some game balance please? We need you to take some time out and make it so that when enemy ships shields reach 50% this reduces their kinetic resistance so that we can actually take out some ships without being pigeonholed into a single build type. (seems plasma is still the only one for science) (and no I haven't tried the new weapons I saw the nanite thing but that's not what I'm talking about, I'm talking about skills).
Charged particle burst
Photonic shockwave
Nadeon burst torpedo
the kinetic damage from repulsor beams
All useless.
And now with the new enemies having teleport powers, tractor beams are useless too. So what exactly should we spec with hmm?
I'd love to have a dev tell me.
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Comments
You really do have to think outside of the box if you are a Science Captain that does not use a Carrier and are looking to find some decent damage in PVP or PVE.
I agree that a shield facing kinetic resistance should scale based on the amount of hit points that the facing has because it's a damn shame when a High Yield Torpedo volley does next to no damage to a vessel that's shields were down to something like 5%.
I'm working on a Romulan Science build that I'm hoping to find some success with that I'll be posting up for feedback in a day or so.
my fed science has the vesta ship with 125 aux and 3 part gens and 2 grav gens embassy consoles, plus the borg uni console and a grav gen deflector.. and speced 9 in part and grav gen skill.
the grav wells i do on that ship is deadly.. about 1000 a tick and no ships escape it. except the borg in stfs, they seem immune to gw now.
before you hit the GW, use an aux battery.. you will notice a huge improvement.
[12:44] Vessel One of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 1019527 (1157678) Kinetic Damage to you with Plasma Energy Bolt Explosion.
when i shoot my photon torp volleys they take shields down just as well as energy weapons.
those SCI powers... i don't really know but i do not think that they are designed to do high damage but just to annoy players in a crowd control kinda way.
Charged particle burst <- no idea what this does...
Photonic shockwave <- has at one point annoyed the hell out of me in PvP, knocked all buttons offline for multiple seconds and pushed me around... until they nerfed it because everyone in PvP was using it to the point where you had no control over your ship anymore.
Nadeon burst torpedo <- no idea
repulsor beams <- those are repulsing just fine, in PvE you can pull aggro with that real nice and it acts like a BFaW against mines / torps / fighters / boarding parties etc., the small kinetic damage is just a bonus, it is not the main reason to use it.
personally i hate SCI ships...
i hate all the cmdr boff abilities, i hate the wizzard-ish approach and that nothing that i do gives me any feedback how i do (if i have a drain ability but i have no way of telling how much energy i actually drain / how much is left or if i am anywhere near disabling the enemies systems etc. it just confuses the hell out of me not knowing whats going on)
imho the best ship for a SCI captain is the MVAM, decent DPS, awesome pet spam, and a Lt. Cmdr. Sci slot which is just about sciency enough for me to not get into the wizzard category where everything else is nerfed to death. (seriously, 6 weapon slots and 2 tac consoles? you could be flying a Tier 3 ship and not do any worse dps wise.)
...or maybe i just suck at flying SCI Ships.
Lets just say, i hate sci ships and they hate me back so we keep out of each others hair.
FED Captain: RSV-> Recon Vesta
KDF Captain: BoP-> Vo'Quv-> Varanus-> Kamarag
ROM Captain: Ha'Nom Warbird
My GW3 does about 700-1100 Damage on average, depending on CoE stacks and AUX levels. My Disruptor Beams can shred shields easily, and my MKXII Chroniton Torpedoes do almost as much damage as MKXII Photons. I also carry a Bio-Nerual Warhead on each captain if I need more kick.
My RSV Build: http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/index.php?build=rsvzolaria_2340
My Ha'nom Build: http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/index.php?build=hanomattacker_2340
Photonic shockwave. Worthless, Check
Nadeon burst torpedo. Worthless, Check
the kinetic damage from repulsor beams, If you are Science Captain they are not at full power but still far from worthless. I kill with these all the time.
If you are a Science Captain and you want to get some kinetic through shields... Here is an interesting idea... How about YOU TAKE DOWN THEIR SHIELDS FIRST!? That is what everyone else does. Spawn yourself a Photonic Fleet to hammer them, shoot them up, use Beam Overload (It knocks shields out fast) grab some Theta Vents or power them down until they have no shield power to resist with. If they try to tank up... Say hello to your little friend Sub Nuke.
Most Science ships can strip the shields off a foe pretty quickly if you are doing it correctly. Shields have become a bit of a joke in this game with how fast they disappear. It is amazing considering in the Shows they tank on SHIELDS and die the moment their hull is exposed but in STO we tank on Hull because shields just go bye-bye too fast.
That said: Yes, Science abilities have been nerfed too far. Syphon, Tykens, Gravity Well, and Tachyon Beam in addition to your list have all been hit far too hard through resistances and effect reduction. Tachyon Beam is such an absolute joke that there is NEVER a good reason to use it unless you want to make someone laugh. Yet the Inverse Tachyon beam from the 1K day ships is pretty solid. Why can't Tachyon Beam III at the very least be that good?
So yeah, Buff Sci for the love of Science but do not nerf anything.
Tetryon Beam weapons? Phased Tetryon Beams? Polarized Tetyron?
He's a science captain not a MACO. Sheesh.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
The best ship to do that is one that equips cannons. Guess which science ship that is?
Bad idea. Bad power. Long cooldown. Buggy with range.
Accuracy creates issues with that. As well as subsystem micromanagement.
Really the best way to take out shields in a science ship is to rapidly fire or scatter a volley of cannons at the target.
Vesta reamins the besta.
I am not understanding your issue. You are not giving specific numbers. And you are generalizing three different abilities that are not completely the same.
You say even with new traits shields block everything. This statement by itself makes no sense. It seems very incomplete. I am not saying you are wrong. I am just not understanding the context to which you are reffering.
So here is where I am at. To which traits do you refer?
Where does it say on which power or trait or specific repec ability DOff power etc. That shields block everything.
Because I could say something like (The dog fence was cake, while bicycle and sky at tire. )This sentence does not make much sense by itself. But If I included the rest of the missing details. I then make a complete sentence with better understanding of whats connects the dog to the sky tire and other things etc.
all are great, but NOT FOR DAMAGE! these abilities are meant to CC like all other sci abilities are meant for, decloak enemy bops, STUN/interrupt enemy, push enemy away from team/healers/others, thats pretty much it.
CUUCUUMBEER! "-With slight partigen with it."
Proud member or DPS-800 "-We kill dem mines with our scitter turrets."
Part of the problem seems to be a lot of shared cooldowns on science abilities. Narrows your options a bit build-wise and almost forces you into using abilities which don't seem worth it. That's the other part. Some abilities just seem really meh.
Personally I like the science ground abilities. I usually play healers and I like their ground kits. Space combat though... Some of their (and engineering's) support stuff is nice. I think that aspect is fine. But I find abilities like gravity well, tyken's rift etc. detract slightly from my enjoyment of the game. Generally speaking I think they've done an excellent job with both space and ground combat in terms of making it feel true to the IP - with the exception of us creating monstrous spatial tears etc.
So if I could throw another idea into the pot, if these abilities have been sufficiently problematic in the past to warrant nerfing them to the point of uselessness, consider doing away with them entirely. Replace them with some new buffs / debuffs.
I would fine with that if they made some science powers, like GW and Tykens, AoE deadly that affects all in a certain radius.
If the Devs could take it a step further, make it so faction friendlies only suffer half effects.
I feel such would give power back to Sci and make it more about timing over just flnging powers willy nilly-ish.
R.I.P
But... a lot of combat scenarios in Star Trek are resolved (i.e. won) through the application of science. Often they use non-combat equipment to achieve this so I don't think Science vessels playing this kind of role in combat is a problem.
And from what we've seen I think all Federation vessels are armed. It's a hostile universe. Remember Beverly's medical ship when Picard goes forward in time in the final TNG episode? That might not have been built for combat but it wasn't unprepared for it either.
Aye, but still has-a the-a most-a stupidest-a name-a.
Seriously, why the hell name it after a brand of 1970s beef curry? :P
Not to mention it being almost as ugly as the oddy and the regent.
So have I, their newest Explore New Romulus mission was the perfect example of what science captains SHOULD be doing but we still have that problem of the devs not getting it. I tried an explore mission yesterday because I thought, surely they learned, they made changes to everything else, maybe just maybe they improved that too. NOPE completely the same TRIBBLE as always even had my bridge officers disappear into the ground.
The same goes for these skills. I have to laugh at the guy who said "I'm tired of these wizard-like abilities" uhm hello, the only wizardlike magically delicious abilities are on the tactical side where suddenly you're debuffed by some mysterious force that has no explanation. At least science skills have oh I dunno science behind them.
I'll be checking out the posts that have some great ideas for the ship. I noticed the one first guy to post to this with an actual layout of his build is using tetryon I have tetryon weapons on my ship all MK XII and there's some kind of gap that occurs between using the AOE cannon tactical skill just when that stops that leaves that tiny sliver of shield facing up just long enough to be annoying, meanwhile any tactical ship escort or not never has that trouble, I know I play one of those too so I can see the difference.
I also noticed there's no science skills that mimic the skills found on escort ships like the tachyon burst on the Andorian ship. Why do people have to purchase the ship in order for a science skill to work properly? Why haven't they changed our beam to work like that ships weapons? Someone somewhere would have put that as standard on all SF ships by now I'm very sure, and the tiny damage that the beam does to the shields doesn't in any way help it's about as useless as the kinetic abilities with that 10 hitpoints of immunity the shields offer the enemies.
They need a serious look at this problem. Sure there was a problem in PVP and I'm sure it was very annoying but nerfing pve just to satisfy a few PVPers is never a good idea and making enemies immune to attacks is never a good idea either.
Finally there's another problem with repulsor beams, why can't they limit the pushback unless you have a certain score? There are two consoles one for damage and one for CC improvement, why can't they limit the pushback if you choose the stack the damage consoles? (I believe that Grav gen affects the pushback while particle gen affects the damage) if they did that across the board for all of these skills that use CC and damage side by side wouldn't that improve the overall use of these skills? People could specialize much more easily.
This would immediately improve the use of GW3 by itself. And while they're at it they should check out why exactly the Tyken's Rift ability doesn't shut down that 25 power level of engine most enemies are using when that clearly happened in canon.
I was actually thinking about your post too, I noticed it doesn't do it on ground but it does in space. It's weird that way why would they fix 1 but not the other.
Used to enjoy the Bellerophon while as a captain it works great but something changes in the numbers once you reach VA and the enemies do way more damage to sci ships then they should imo and gain way more resistances to everything making CC useless.
It's the same for another game I play GW2, they basically broke CC and support in that game by making the bosses immune so why give us the skills if they aren't going to work properly that prompts people to just go DPS for everything and nothing else matters, that breaks the game.
So essentially the game could be called " Tactical Escort Online"
The only place a sci captain can still shine is pvp, and a little crowd control if someone F's up ISE.