Im not concerned about SNB, well it does p**s me off somewhat when you get zapped over and over again but that doesnt make it OP.
To me, SNB is OP for the same reason that cleanses are OP.
SNB shouldn't, imho, be a complete strip.
Cleanses shouldn't, imho, be a complete cleanse.
Cleanses shouldn't have a 100% chance to cleanse something unless it is of equal or higher rank.
the problem with tactical team is... people dont use to be all tacitcal... they use it to stay alive.
now how weird is that? i mean couldnt the engy team maybe have that ability instead? heal your hull and move the shields around? wouldnt that make more sense?
So really not many people other than sci would ever be able to clear SNB3, only an engineer would be able to cleanse VM3, even VM2 as so many people cant get engineer team 3, most struggle with getting ET2, vice versa for tactical debuffs, someone hits you with ApB3, vitually no one would be able to clear it as it would require TT3, fundementally that throws balance even further out, it would force big ships into multicopies of everything to clear and cleanse everyone else all the time whilst also making themselves squishier and escorts just dont really have the BOff skills to burn through sharing TT3, that on its own also lowers damage output (which some will scream brilliant) but with the runaway resistances, no one would die, PvP would become a constant stalemate.
Like I say, TT has a 5 second window of attack, Beta lasts 5 seconds. Is that a coincidence or a time to use Beta? Id say the latter.
Every skill and buff requires timing to lay down with effect. With everything people are saying are OP, have they actually done any PvP? Practiced PvP? Played as part of a team in PvP?
It would be interesting to see how long someone can survive in PvP on tacteams alone, no shield buffs allowed. I doubt its long at all. If it was truely OP, they would be able to survive indefinately on TT alone. Thats simply not the case, it requires other buffs as well.
So really not many people other than sci would ever be able to clear SNB3, only an engineer would be able to cleanse VM3, even VM2 as so many people cant get engineer team 3, most struggle with getting ET2, vice versa for tactical debuffs, someone hits you with ApB3, vitually no one would be able to clear it as it would require TT3, fundementally that throws balance even further out, it would force big ships into multicopies of everything to clear and cleanse everyone else all the time whilst also making themselves squishier and escorts just dont really have the BOff skills to burn through sharing TT3, that on its own also lowers damage output (which some will scream brilliant) but with the runaway resistances, no one would die, PvP would become a constant stalemate.
Like I say, TT has a 5 second window of attack, Beta lasts 5 seconds. Is that a coincidence or a time to use Beta? Id say the latter.
Every skill and buff requires timing to lay down with effect. With everything people are saying are OP, have they actually done any PvP? Practiced PvP? Played as part of a team in PvP?
It would be interesting to see how long someone can survive in PvP on tacteams alone, no shield buffs allowed. I doubt its long at all. If it was truely OP, they would be able to survive indefinately on TT alone. Thats simply not the case, it requires other buffs as well.
uhh... id like to think it would encourge teamwork and whatnot... you know... that thing where people are nice and help each other out in battle?itd also encourage different layouts of ships to be used, suddenly that excelsior would be a handy healer because it could take engy team 3 and tac team 3... or the ambassador could take a sci team 3 and an engy team 3... you know.. diversify the builds people take sorta thing rather then mindlessly focus only on how much damage they can pump out.
tt lasts 10 seconds with a 15 second global. you do know that during that 5 seconds of "open" you claim, that manual redistribution and sheild heals will cover them?
10 seconds is simply too long of a "ha ha you cant hurt me" for a simple ensign power. have it scale up, 2.5 seconds for ensign, 5 for lt, 7.5 for lt cmdr.
its too good a power for such a low cost to use, thats what makes it imbalanced. (notice i say imbalanced and not op)
there used to be a time when people were able to survive without tac team doing what it does currently.
game damage hasnt gone up too much since then (since no new powers/abilities ahve been introduced that increase damage) so what the hell gives? why could people live back then but suddenly now find themselves dead if they forget their tac team?
Should an Ensign ranked ability be able to cleanse (100% chance) a Commander or Captain ranked ability?
sadly i think we've gone over this before...
people had "random" being introduced to the game when the "random" factor doesnt favor them (ie chance to crit)
and i think we figured out that cryptic wouldnt bother sinking in that kind of time to rewrite so much of the game engine to figure out % chances for non weapon things.
people had "random" being introduced to the game when the "random" factor doesnt favor them (ie chance to crit)
and i think we figured out that cryptic wouldnt bother sinking in that kind of time to rewrite so much of the game engine to figure out % chances for non weapon things.
Oh, I know that Cryptic will never address the issue...but that doesn't remove the issue sort of thing.
There's a difference between denial of something and acceptance of it...
...most folks play with the acceptance of it.
...some folks play in denial of it.
Well if you think its an 'You cant kill me' button, you are sadly mistaken.
Mine has a global cooldown of 15 seconds with DOffs, 10 second use, 5 second rundown, that rundown is when you are most vulnerable, in that time any escort worth its salt (remembering escorts are the DPS in a team) can easily take you out in that gap. An escort using DEM, BO, CRF on alpha can remove another ship in about 2 seconds weather they have tac team running or not, add a shield buff to tacteam and it doesnt happen.
Ive even seen cruisers and beam boats chew through shield power to the point where tac team has nothing to redistribute anyway, combine that with DEM3 (engineers) and its a real escort killer (at worst an escort repeller).
Funnily enough, tacteam didnt keep you alive.
Your idea wouldnt bring extra team work, theres too many pug teams that insist they can go it alone. There also wouldnt be enough cleansing around to sort it out, escorts (you know, those way OP ships that out turn cruisers and out gun them too?!) wouldnt even function because they would be wasting skills to cleanse team mates because even a tac cruiser doesnt have the viability in its tactical BOff setup to run TT3.
It will also force players to use a particular ship for their toon. A sci in an escort wouldnt be viable, an engineer in a sci ship wouldnt be viable, a Tac in anything wouldnt really be viable.
Meh to hell with it, the whole game should be nerfed to stop Tac having shield heals, hull heals. Engineer can only have hull heals but no shield heals or tactical debuffs. Sci can have shield heal and the usual scrubs but nothing else. There we go, everyone has to work as a team to survive, shame no one will be fighting much.
So, tac team is not OP? An Ensign-level power that clears everything, buffs damage an mitigates incoming damage in such an efficient way?
o.O
tt is also used by scis.If a tac uses apb3 on a sci and a sci wont be able to clear that debuff then humans go on the forums to complain all day about how tacs are op and scis cant clear tac debuffs.
Well if you think its an 'You cant kill me' button, you are sadly mistaken.
Mine has a global cooldown of 15 seconds with DOffs, 10 second use, 5 second rundown, that rundown is when you are most vulnerable, in that time any escort worth its salt (remembering escorts are the DPS in a team) can easily take you out in that gap. An escort using DEM, BO, CRF on alpha can remove another ship in about 2 seconds weather they have tac team running or not, add a shield buff to tacteam and it doesnt happen.
Ive even seen cruisers and beam boats chew through shield power to the point where tac team has nothing to redistribute anyway, combine that with DEM3 (engineers) and its a real escort killer (at worst an escort repeller).
Funnily enough, tacteam didnt keep you alive.
Your idea wouldnt bring extra team work, theres too many pug teams that insist they can go it alone. There also wouldnt be enough cleansing around to sort it out, escorts (you know, those way OP ships that out turn cruisers and out gun them too?!) wouldnt even function because they would be wasting skills to cleanse team mates because even a tac cruiser doesnt have the viability in its tactical BOff setup to run TT3.
It will also force players to use a particular ship for their toon. A sci in an escort wouldnt be viable, an engineer in a sci ship wouldnt be viable, a Tac in anything wouldnt really be viable.
Meh to hell with it, the whole game should be nerfed to stop Tac having shield heals, hull heals. Engineer can only have hull heals but no shield heals or tactical debuffs. Sci can have shield heal and the usual scrubs but nothing else. There we go, everyone has to work as a team to survive, shame no one will be fighting much.
i run with a single tac team and never have any issues. why wouldnt captains in other ships be viable? a sci is useful in anything, a engy would be more survivable in anything, and a tac would still do more damage in anything.
who said itd be a tac guy in that tac cruiser runnin the tac team 3? it could easly be a resistance booster sci, or a friendly healer engy tooling around in it.
if that escort thats shooting you is using dem then thats his loss, that means he has only 1 engy power (on most escorts) and itll probably be an epts1.
and no im not mistaken, i never said tac team was a "you cant kill me button" i said that it lasting for 10 seconds makes it a "ha ha you cant hurt me" button. theres a big difference. when tac team is up, the guy is 99% of the time gonna live a lot longer with it (up to 10 seconds) then without it because it takes the thinking out of redirecting your shields. and it does it more quickly then it should.
oh how dare i think that maybe the game should have some stuff thrown in there to encourage teamwork, how dare I! ill go to the corner now.
The whole damn point of Tac team is to redistribute shields, that's its primary use.
It's pretty obvious that you have no clue about PvP at all.
You can easily kill someone using a Tac team, its called spike damage, even a shield strip, what good is a Tac team when the player has no shields?
What you are trying to do doesn't bring teamwork, it brings never ending matches.
I take it you aren't a Tac (big assumption on my part), if not, can you train in TT3 to scrub other level 3 skills?
You also seem to fail to understand, if TT was so OP, it would be infallible, its not, its easily defeated, easily overpowered and is far from a 'you can't damage me'. Unlike many other skills, it gives no extra resistances. If you think 'more fool tacs' for using DEM, I would suggest you do some research before crying nerf on a skill that works exactly as it should.
It's pretty obvious that you have no clue about PvP at all.
I just spit soda out through my nose on my keyboard reading that...cause, you know - it looked like you were replying to Mai with that. But that couldn't have been the case...
because we all know the old stuffs are always better and by being new makes it da sheet :rolleyes:
feb 2011 to 2013...that means the game had TT like it is today most of the time.
More a case of saying that it was not the initial intended design...
...and that the feature was added because certain people are unable to tie their shoes and needed it.
More a case of saying that it was not the initial intended design...
many things were not initially intended like they are now ...for example STO was not intended to have any kind of success in the first two years :rolleyes:
also initial design had no tholian pets with apb to stack 203201309 times ,it also had no danube pets with TB nor TIF .Also initial design says nothing about "intended to be played on team speak" .
I just spit soda out through my nose on my keyboard reading that...cause, you know - it looked like you were replying to Mai with that. But that couldn't have been the case...
So I now assume PvP god? One of the elite few?
Makes sense, that would explain why TT is mistakenly seen as OP and near impenetrable?!
Or is it closer to they fly a cruiser but get annoyed because it doesnt have the same or more DPS as an escort and gets out turned by a planet?
I just spit soda out through my nose on my keyboard reading that...cause, you know - it looked like you were replying to Mai with that. But that couldn't have been the case...
Makes sense, that would explain why TT is mistakenly seen as OP and near impenetrable?!
Or is it closer to they fly a cruiser but get annoyed because it doesnt have the same or more DPS as an escort and gets out turned by a planet?
I never said it was op dude. It's imbalanced. Once again there is a big difference. Tactical team as it stands is not balanced. It needs to be adjusted.
I never claimed to be a god, but thanks for assuming
Cruiser issues are their own thing, tactical team actually benefits cruisers more then escorts because as you so eloquently pointed out, they get out turned by planets.
Tactical team should never have gotten the shield distro buff. They only gave it that because at the time, engy team gave hull resists and sci team gave shield resists, in addition to their raps and all 3 teams gave big boosts to their respective skill trees.
They took away the resists and big skill boosts from the sci and engy team and left the tac team shield distribution. Perfect cryptic sense.
I'm not saying I know how to fix everything or even how to balance the game right, but its been shown time and time again that cryptic doesn't either.
And they're paid to do it.
many things were not initially intended like they are now ...for example STO was not intended to have any kind of success in the first two years :rolleyes:
also initial design had no tholian pets with apb to stack 203201309 times ,it also had no danube pets with TB nor TIF .Also initial design says nothing about "intended to be played on team speak" .
So one bad addition means another bad addition is needed? Right... That's cryptic logic!
So one bad addition means another bad addition is needed? Right... That's cryptic logic!
no ,I already said that the game has to be turned in pong...everything has to be like it was when the game was released ....you know ,when you had more npcs in social zones than people :rolleyes:
I've never understood the need for folks to stretch so much - to go to extremes - to muck about in hyperbole...as seen on the STO forums. Sure, it happens everywhere - but dear God, on the forums here - it's like a can of Pringles - once you pop, you can't stop.
So let's look at the options you've given regarding Mai...
It strikes me that a lot of these "Nerf x" threads really come down to laziness-someone gets a build that they think SHOULD be the overwhelming-god-of-PvP and isn't-because there isn't one.
no its not laziness .People make a build and find some hole in the build like X power and the only way to fill that hole is to ask that X power to get nerfed/removed /scraped/changed.
As opposed to a skill only available to one class that scrubs everything?
tactical team is available to all with tac BOffs, it also shares a CD with other teams (engineer and sci teams, both of which scrub far more lethal debuffs)
Tactical team on its own isnt enough to stop an alpha for example, it also has a 5 second vulnerability window so its not even a 100% up time.
What do you want? 4 other new teams to be added for the likes of scrubbing Beta/Delta, another for boarding parties, another for redist of shields and another for adding the extra (negligable amount at best) damage that cruiser toons are always crying for?
Sci team gives a massive shield boost, scrubs jam and SNB debuffs and gives a nice little immunity and resistance buff too. Engineer team scrubs viral, gives a pretty big hull heal and a cheeky little hull resistance with further immunity to viral, yet tac team is OP because it scrubs tac abilities?
Its more like someone doesnt know how to time their abilities against others and gets popped because of it. Tac team doesnt give a shield boost, doesnt give a further shield resistance, doesnt single handedly stop spike damage (although it can reduce it), doesnt stop DEM (which at the moment is a big killer in PvP), it gives you no hull resist etc etc.
So please after reading what the other teams do that also share a CD with tac, tell me why TT is OP? Everything else has a debuff, why should tac skills be different?
Heres a shocker, ApB has a 5 second burn time, its kinda made for an alpha or a gap in the shields moment, strangely theres a 5 second downtime on tac team? Coincidence?
Neither sci team or eng team are giving any resistences. They clear some debuffs and they give you a instant heal and some boni to sci and eng abilites, like tac team gives a damage buff. But the instant heals are probably not as effective as be able to balance all shieldenergy to one facing.
On a sci team 2, you get about 3k to each facing and eng team gives a hull heal(don?t ask for the numbers i don?t use it on my current ships), when you balance shields you can basically get 4 times the hitpoitns to 1 facing, if your shields are full, so i guess it is clear which one makes it more difficult to break a single facing or to shred off the add hitoints you got for our hull form a eng team heal.
Reynolds/Thokal
U.S.S. Helios -Vesta Class/R.R.W. Dark Science - Dyson Surveillance Science Destroyer U.S.S. Donut - Fleet Advanced Research Vessel Retrofit TheWiseGuys
Comments
How would this distribution thing work? seperate BOff skills?
To me, SNB is OP for the same reason that cleanses are OP.
SNB shouldn't, imho, be a complete strip.
Cleanses shouldn't, imho, be a complete cleanse.
Cleanses shouldn't have a 100% chance to cleanse something unless it is of equal or higher rank.
now how weird is that? i mean couldnt the engy team maybe have that ability instead? heal your hull and move the shields around? wouldnt that make more sense?
also the tac team is so easy a cave man could do it....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8aj1AlYvxI
tac team is so easy all you have to do is set it and forget it.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLq27iOW0R0
tac team protects you so well you dont have to hide your kids or hide your wife...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMtZfW2z9dw
i think im done here.
Do you even Science Bro?
create a brand new boff skill for it.
also... you have to remember.
snb is a CAPTAIN POWER, not a ensign power.
ANYONE can take 2 tac teams, usually at no loss where as if you want the "almighty" snb you have to actually have your captain be science....
that you cant compare captain powers to ensign powers.
thats like saying-
dude 1-"that escort out damaged me"
dude 2-"well escorts do a lot of damage, what are you flying?"
dude 1-"my type 8 shuttle."
dude 2- -facepalm-
Do you even Science Bro?
Like I say, TT has a 5 second window of attack, Beta lasts 5 seconds. Is that a coincidence or a time to use Beta? Id say the latter.
Every skill and buff requires timing to lay down with effect. With everything people are saying are OP, have they actually done any PvP? Practiced PvP? Played as part of a team in PvP?
It would be interesting to see how long someone can survive in PvP on tacteams alone, no shield buffs allowed. I doubt its long at all. If it was truely OP, they would be able to survive indefinately on TT alone. Thats simply not the case, it requires other buffs as well.
uhh... id like to think it would encourge teamwork and whatnot... you know... that thing where people are nice and help each other out in battle?itd also encourage different layouts of ships to be used, suddenly that excelsior would be a handy healer because it could take engy team 3 and tac team 3... or the ambassador could take a sci team 3 and an engy team 3... you know.. diversify the builds people take sorta thing rather then mindlessly focus only on how much damage they can pump out.
tt lasts 10 seconds with a 15 second global. you do know that during that 5 seconds of "open" you claim, that manual redistribution and sheild heals will cover them?
10 seconds is simply too long of a "ha ha you cant hurt me" for a simple ensign power. have it scale up, 2.5 seconds for ensign, 5 for lt, 7.5 for lt cmdr.
its too good a power for such a low cost to use, thats what makes it imbalanced. (notice i say imbalanced and not op)
there used to be a time when people were able to survive without tac team doing what it does currently.
game damage hasnt gone up too much since then (since no new powers/abilities ahve been introduced that increase damage) so what the hell gives? why could people live back then but suddenly now find themselves dead if they forget their tac team?
Do you even Science Bro?
sadly i think we've gone over this before...
people had "random" being introduced to the game when the "random" factor doesnt favor them (ie chance to crit)
and i think we figured out that cryptic wouldnt bother sinking in that kind of time to rewrite so much of the game engine to figure out % chances for non weapon things.
Do you even Science Bro?
Oh, I know that Cryptic will never address the issue...but that doesn't remove the issue sort of thing.
There's a difference between denial of something and acceptance of it...
...most folks play with the acceptance of it.
...some folks play in denial of it.
That's all that was really about.
It's one of those pyrrhic things...
Mine has a global cooldown of 15 seconds with DOffs, 10 second use, 5 second rundown, that rundown is when you are most vulnerable, in that time any escort worth its salt (remembering escorts are the DPS in a team) can easily take you out in that gap. An escort using DEM, BO, CRF on alpha can remove another ship in about 2 seconds weather they have tac team running or not, add a shield buff to tacteam and it doesnt happen.
Ive even seen cruisers and beam boats chew through shield power to the point where tac team has nothing to redistribute anyway, combine that with DEM3 (engineers) and its a real escort killer (at worst an escort repeller).
Funnily enough, tacteam didnt keep you alive.
Your idea wouldnt bring extra team work, theres too many pug teams that insist they can go it alone. There also wouldnt be enough cleansing around to sort it out, escorts (you know, those way OP ships that out turn cruisers and out gun them too?!) wouldnt even function because they would be wasting skills to cleanse team mates because even a tac cruiser doesnt have the viability in its tactical BOff setup to run TT3.
It will also force players to use a particular ship for their toon. A sci in an escort wouldnt be viable, an engineer in a sci ship wouldnt be viable, a Tac in anything wouldnt really be viable.
Meh to hell with it, the whole game should be nerfed to stop Tac having shield heals, hull heals. Engineer can only have hull heals but no shield heals or tactical debuffs. Sci can have shield heal and the usual scrubs but nothing else. There we go, everyone has to work as a team to survive, shame no one will be fighting much.
tt is also used by scis.If a tac uses apb3 on a sci and a sci wont be able to clear that debuff then humans go on the forums to complain all day about how tacs are op and scis cant clear tac debuffs.
i run with a single tac team and never have any issues. why wouldnt captains in other ships be viable? a sci is useful in anything, a engy would be more survivable in anything, and a tac would still do more damage in anything.
who said itd be a tac guy in that tac cruiser runnin the tac team 3? it could easly be a resistance booster sci, or a friendly healer engy tooling around in it.
if that escort thats shooting you is using dem then thats his loss, that means he has only 1 engy power (on most escorts) and itll probably be an epts1.
and no im not mistaken, i never said tac team was a "you cant kill me button" i said that it lasting for 10 seconds makes it a "ha ha you cant hurt me" button. theres a big difference. when tac team is up, the guy is 99% of the time gonna live a lot longer with it (up to 10 seconds) then without it because it takes the thinking out of redirecting your shields. and it does it more quickly then it should.
oh how dare i think that maybe the game should have some stuff thrown in there to encourage teamwork, how dare I! ill go to the corner now.
Do you even Science Bro?
It's pretty obvious that you have no clue about PvP at all.
You can easily kill someone using a Tac team, its called spike damage, even a shield strip, what good is a Tac team when the player has no shields?
What you are trying to do doesn't bring teamwork, it brings never ending matches.
I take it you aren't a Tac (big assumption on my part), if not, can you train in TT3 to scrub other level 3 skills?
You also seem to fail to understand, if TT was so OP, it would be infallible, its not, its easily defeated, easily overpowered and is far from a 'you can't damage me'. Unlike many other skills, it gives no extra resistances. If you think 'more fool tacs' for using DEM, I would suggest you do some research before crying nerf on a skill that works exactly as it should.
That wasn't added until Feb 2011.
I just spit soda out through my nose on my keyboard reading that...cause, you know - it looked like you were replying to Mai with that. But that couldn't have been the case...
because we all know the old stuffs are always better and by being new makes it da sheet :rolleyes:
feb 2011 to 2013...that means the game had TT like it is today most of the time .
meh you will live.
Remove team speak to see how cool TT is....so yea nerf team speak .
More a case of saying that it was not the initial intended design...
...and that the feature was added because certain people are unable to tie their shoes and needed it.
many things were not initially intended like they are now ...for example STO was not intended to have any kind of success in the first two years :rolleyes:
also initial design had no tholian pets with apb to stack 203201309 times ,it also had no danube pets with TB nor TIF .Also initial design says nothing about "intended to be played on team speak" .
So I now assume PvP god? One of the elite few?
Makes sense, that would explain why TT is mistakenly seen as OP and near impenetrable?!
Or is it closer to they fly a cruiser but get annoyed because it doesnt have the same or more DPS as an escort and gets out turned by a planet?
Hehehehe I know right?
I never said it was op dude. It's imbalanced. Once again there is a big difference. Tactical team as it stands is not balanced. It needs to be adjusted.
I never claimed to be a god, but thanks for assuming
Cruiser issues are their own thing, tactical team actually benefits cruisers more then escorts because as you so eloquently pointed out, they get out turned by planets.
Tactical team should never have gotten the shield distro buff. They only gave it that because at the time, engy team gave hull resists and sci team gave shield resists, in addition to their raps and all 3 teams gave big boosts to their respective skill trees.
They took away the resists and big skill boosts from the sci and engy team and left the tac team shield distribution. Perfect cryptic sense.
I'm not saying I know how to fix everything or even how to balance the game right, but its been shown time and time again that cryptic doesn't either.
And they're paid to do it.
Do you even Science Bro?
So one bad addition means another bad addition is needed? Right... That's cryptic logic!
Do you even Science Bro?
no ,I already said that the game has to be turned in pong...everything has to be like it was when the game was released ....you know ,when you had more npcs in social zones than people :rolleyes:
I've never understood the need for folks to stretch so much - to go to extremes - to muck about in hyperbole...as seen on the STO forums. Sure, it happens everywhere - but dear God, on the forums here - it's like a can of Pringles - once you pop, you can't stop.
So let's look at the options you've given regarding Mai...
...or...
There's plenty of room between those two options...
ensign engineering last for 30 seconds
ensign tac - 5 seconds
so yea eptX should last 5 seconds...engineering powers are op...nerf them all.
no its not laziness .People make a build and find some hole in the build like X power and the only way to fill that hole is to ask that X power to get nerfed/removed /scraped/changed.
Neither sci team or eng team are giving any resistences. They clear some debuffs and they give you a instant heal and some boni to sci and eng abilites, like tac team gives a damage buff. But the instant heals are probably not as effective as be able to balance all shieldenergy to one facing.
On a sci team 2, you get about 3k to each facing and eng team gives a hull heal(don?t ask for the numbers i don?t use it on my current ships), when you balance shields you can basically get 4 times the hitpoitns to 1 facing, if your shields are full, so i guess it is clear which one makes it more difficult to break a single facing or to shred off the add hitoints you got for our hull form a eng team heal.
U.S.S. Helios -Vesta Class / R.R.W. Dark Science - Dyson Surveillance Science Destroyer
U.S.S. Donut - Fleet Advanced Research Vessel Retrofit
TheWiseGuys