Not convinced LoR should be released on the 21st

suaveks · May 2013

Ok, before I'll get to the point I've got to admit - the amount of content in LoR is nothing we've ever seen since STO launch and the overall update concept is nothing short but awesome. I don't mind the alliance thing, I don't mind lack of new endgame content that much, and I definitely appreciate all the new things that are being added, starting from the new UI, to the whole Romulan faction (even if it isn't really a fully fledged faction). Great job from Cryptic team in that regard.

BUT... I'll just say it bluntly - the scope of this update, the amount of new things, assets, systems and such, may be too much to be released so soon.

I've played a good amount of Romulan content over the past few weeks. I've allied myself with the KDF, played all the available new story missions, tested numerous systems and watched how and if the bugs are being fixed or not over time. And I've got to say - with less than three weeks left to launch I don't think LoR will truly be ready...

The bugs and issues range from small and trivial things, to really major problems that don't seem to be getting enough dev attention. There are numerous issues with nearly all aspects of the game, with the major players being the whole alliance system, the KDF once again falling behind the FEDs in terms of proper bugfixes, the ships still being worked on and remaining unbalanced in some cases, romulan doff system being unreliable, plus there are countless issues with romulan bridge officers, as well as their customization. Add to that the fact that we haven't even seen most of the content yet, such as the Nimbus adventure zone or the rest of the Romulan story arc, or that we can't test any of the C-Store consoles/abilities and ship variants. And these are still just some examples.

There has never ever been a smooth Season launch for STO. Even updates that focused solely on one particular new asset, such as Fleet Starbases, weren't without major issues at launch. And seeing how the works progress with the LoR update I'm honestly afraid that many bugs - including the ones we haven't seen yet - won't get fixed by the 21st and the update will launch full of problems - maybe even some major ones.

Marketing actions this, buisness plan that, but seriously, don't you think the launch could be put ahead a little bit so that the devs would get a bit more time to polish such an enormous amount of new content? I'd like to be wrong, but as it is now, with possible open beta coming soon, I'm not convinced about the launch date. There are still many unknowns we cannot even test properly. And even if we do, how can we be sure it'll all get polished in time? Is it really worth risking that some major problem will go live and break the game for certain people? Or that people will begin losing their items because of some oversight (such as, opening a Console Pack before choosing a faction)?

And again, don't get me wrong - the update appears to be what many STO fans have been waiting for a long time. The amount of goodies will surely keep players occupied far longer than Fleet Starbases or New Romulus did. I'm just posting my concerns regarding the fixed launch date, after seeing things on Tribble. I believe it's always better to release a complete and finished product, rather than to rush it needlessly, causing severe issues for players only because of that. Sure, people will be disappointed if things'll get postponed, but personally I think it would be for the better.

voyagerfan9751 · May 2013

Honestly, I am cautiously optimistic. Yes, there are still some major issues (boff bug, I am looking at you) but there are also many issues that ARE getting fixed. You bring up many good points. there isn't much time left, and not all the content is being tested. Ideally this will be corrected soon, and everything will be playable. Then we will see, but given the sheer speeed we are seeing somethings get fixed and the fact that tribble is being updated with these fixes almost daily, I think it is fair to give Cryptic the benefit of the doubt that at least the major bugs will get swished before the May 21st deadline.

messahla · May 2013

You sir are a genius

I think one of the biggest problems is the UI and how it is not intefacing with the game atm the UI doesnt recognise BOFFs and BOFF stations.

This is just one problem theres alot more but for the UI i have a suggestion for cryptic

1) Use the current UI on the holodeck until the new UI is ready to go live

2) Once the new UI is ready then launch it as a major patch

3) Just use the current UI on the holodeck as a temporary band aid .

This will at the very leaset give a game that is playable as it is the problems with the new UI is making the game unplayable at times on tribble.

You could lose alot of players if you rush this and dish out an unplayable game because you were not willing to comprimise about the UI until you got the new one working.

threat21 · May 2013

I have to agree with the OP. There's enough broken stuff in STO as it is and charging ahead wildly will only serve to make things worse. The one thing most developers, be it free or paid, rarely do is back themselves into a corner by promising delivery on a specific date.

We've heard numerous folks from cryptic state that you guys are too busy working on LoR to be bothered with this or that at the time. I can appreciate that you wanna devote a lot of attention to this expansion or w/e you wanna call it, however, as a result of being so meticulous you've neglected the thing that's up and running now for something that's not finished.

If you guys get 'tunnel vision' on LoR, the game as a whole will suffer... we see it on tribble now and id rather LoR stay on tribble if the game stays as broken as it is till it gets fixed. I wanna play it as much as the next guy, but not in the state its in atm.

otowi · May 2013

I do agree that at this time, there does indeed seem to be many bugs in LoR, and with the launch date looming ever closer, I do have to say that I'm kinda worried.

Like for example the bug where our BO's go AWOL from their posts, and we have to get security to get them back :P. Or the new one where ships apparently have no stations at all except the captain. Talk about cutting costs in personnel, eh??

So, yeah, I do hope they get around to fixing these annoying bugs with enough time left over for more spit and polish, but with us now being in May...

admiraldeathl · May 2013

I was thinking about his earlier today as well, with all the balancing that Warbirds still need, and the lack of Science and Engineering ships is also a concern as well. (Science D'Deridex please??? maybe?

) and all the bugs that are currently up atm. I would rather have the release be pushed back and have more time to test things and get things fixed before rushing to release something that isn't ready and full of bugs.

I do have Faith of the Heart

... I'll stop now... that Cryptic will be able to get things worked out and finished in time. But if they can't I am completely fine with a Delay as much as I would hate for that to happen, having things working right and balanced on release is more important then getting new content that isn't ready.

darkfader1988 · May 2013

Expect tons of things to be horribly broken when it goes live. Granted they will take care so that you can at least get a rommy to level 50 before they fix the other bugs :O

sollvax · May 2013

I have faith in the development team
if they say 21st then its going to be ready on the 21st

comitatus · May 2013

At the end though...they have to make new content to keep us paying customers coming back. I'll admit that I have been getting bored with some stuff and making a new toon is just bleh to me....but a new Romulan toon...MMmmm Good! The new UI is so amazing though...you can change the awful colors to something more appealing. I didn't have the boff problem though...mine were always there waiting.

daan2006 · May 2013

idk they seem to cant fix a boff slot bug been going 3 patch's ago

omegasprime · May 2013

I am impress with all the new changes, but I agree with OP. I hope that if Cryptic needs more time to fix bugs that they will take that time and not push out something full of bugs.

voyagerfan9751 · May 2013

daan2006 wrote: »

idk they seem to cant fix a boff slot bug been going 3 patch's ago

you do realize three patches is about 4-5 days we are talking about. Even a standard bug of this nature is going to take longer to fix then that.

And based on the fact that some have it, some don't that means it is a squirrelly bug. So it is going to be even harder to nail down what is causing it, and what is going to fix it. That doesn't mean no one is working on it.

lordmalak1 · May 2013

Bah, release it on schedule. Everyone whose played more than a few months knows whenever a new season is rolled out it takes many followup patches to straighten it out, and with all the current bugs on holodeck being lower priority than tribble I say let the update come- the sooner the better, THEN with everything on holodeck they can actually focus on the entire game instead of 2 different versions of it.

...It sure can't get much worse, right ?

kasandaro · May 2013

lordmalak1 wrote: »

Bah, release it on schedule. Everyone whose played more than a few months of any mmo knows whenever a new {expansion} is rolled out it takes many followup patches to straighten it out...

ftfy. I know from my FFXI days that the question wasn't "if" there'd be emergency maintenances, the question was "how many".

I do think they need to push past 20 - least for the RRF and KDF episodes to Tribble so we can start banging on them, in addition to the spelling mistakes in the existing missions and screwy ground vendors.

messahla · May 2013

lordmalak1 wrote: »

Bah, release it on schedule. Everyone whose played more than a few months knows whenever a new season is rolled out it takes many followup patches to straighten it out, and with all the current bugs on holodeck being lower priority than tribble I say let the update come- the sooner the better, THEN with everything on holodeck they can actually focus on the entire game instead of 2 different versions of it.

...It sure can't get much worse, right ?

Nice theory however my esteemed klingon if they do release this on schedule then you have the current bugs and the bugs with LoR.
And not all these bugs will be fixed by season 9 and why? because they would start on a new shiny before season 8s issues are resloved.

sandormen123 · May 2013

I am crossing my fingers wholeheartedly.
A not so small piece of my mind tells me that it will be, lets call it, incomplete.
Buggy, glitchy, call it whatever. I can live with that, if Cryptic and their superiors will just focus a little bit (more) on fixing thing, and optimize the code. -As in; a lot.
I am a little bit worried though, that a lot of of old and new 'non-gamebreaking' bugs will 'never be fixed, just adding to the growing mountain of annoying bugs. They might not directly be breaking the game per se, but as the old saying goes, that extra drop in the waterglass creates storms, -or something.

ladymyajha · May 2013

I'm not ready to cry DOOM! yet. We still have plenty of days left until LoR launches, and it's quite possible that they'll have all these bugs worked out.

Now that said, I'm not disagreeing with the OP in that, if they can't get some of these major bugs worked out before then (such as the UI for example) they need to simply move it back a day or two.

tsurutafan01 · May 2013

There's no way they delay after literally over a month of hype that led into two months of hype that led into selling a package for the expansion that cost several hundred dollars.

To be blunt the bugs aren't nearly as concerning as the content at this point.

The Tholian rep looks like a joke, based around rewarding gear at endgame it's own developers say isn't endgame gear, which makes no sense whatsoever. It appears to be DOA barring some radical changes.

Whether Romulan DOFFing is a joke or not seems indeterminate based on a lack of feedback currently, but it appears half done and mostly just a copy/paste job of other factions with very little actual Romulan content. Whether that is true or not is currently indeterminate.

Romulans apparently spawn with a bridge officer that cannot be dismissed or customized, which leaves you in a position that requires you to pay 500 Zen for additional BOFF slots just to gain the same number of customizable slots the other two factions have as a default. Someone apparently thinks this idea passes inspection.

A new ground adventure zone is being added that can only be played from levels 20-25 after which you are locked out of the zone, which might be 2 days play at the absolute most. An interesting idea on paper but in concept it seems like something that will need modification before launch. We're yet to see it, or how that will play out.

To say my concerns are growing would be an understatement.

There are clearly plenty of positives forthcoming with this release. I have no doubt of that at all. But there are also some pretty questionable things going on too.

kagasensei · May 2013

sollvax wrote: »

I have faith in the development team
if they say 21st then its going to be ready on the 21st

You clearly haven't been playing STO for a long time

Ask people to tell you stories about the game release or Season 4 ^^

szerontzur · May 2013

Yeah, I am going to echo the sentiment of concern. At the same time, changing the release date isn't really an feasible option at this point.

I think, perhaps, the most constructive thing we can do as testers is to stress and convey which issues are the most important to get ironed out before the release. With that said, here's my list..

Primary:
-The Biggest issue I feel needs to be resolved is the bridge officer station issues. This impacts everything and will cause people to logout/stop playing faster than anything else on the list.
-Romulan ship bridge/console layouts. The status quo is that these are set in stone once released, so it's best to figure out asap. (Personally, I feel the D'Deridex still needs some work - to serve as a bridge/halfway point between the Mogai and the Ha'apax. The retrofit can be the 'tank' design for the Romulan Navy, but for a leveling ship, the change of focus is just too stark.)
-The Romulan storyline, at least up until the point where you can get to the other featured episodes, needs to be solid. This does seem to be the focus, and that's good. The backlash of not delivering atleast this much would be pretty bad.
-Coincidentally, the starting Klingon experience also needs to be ironed out. We should be testing this right now to help ensure that there will be 'three factions playable from the start'.

Secondary:
-This is likely a bit controversial, but given the state of things, I feel that releasing the second half of the Romulan storyline as a followup patch, instead of at release, might be a good idea. Once people have a chance to play the start of the Romulan experience, I think they'll be more understanding if "Cryptic wants to take a little more time to get the rest of it just right."
-Ship 'balance'. Cloaking times, fine numbers, etc. This is pretty much a constant in any MMO, but there is a danger in getting 'too' caught up in it with a deadline looming.
-Bridge officer customization. Boffs are a huge immersive factor that builds attachment to the game. The sooner this is in, the better, but there are obviously some bigger fish to fry.
-Nukara/Tholian rep. It really pains me to not put this as a primary goal because it is end game content that established players will be delving into, but the commitment to deliver the Romulan faction and Klingons from the start does supersede it. That said, I cannot stress enough the importance of having an equivalent means of progression through space combat for this reputation. Space combat is a big driving force for this game and skimping on that is going to result in a lot of grief and negativity.

suaveks · May 2013

LoR is going to be equally as awesome as buggy...

Updated to the latest patch, went checking new things, new toys, new locations and such. It all looks great - pretty much what the game needed in a long time. So much to do, so much to see, new stuff to grind for. But sadly, there's so much of it and it's so overwhelming there's just tons of bugs, errors, glitches, oversights, both minor and major issues, while there's less than two weeks before launch.

I don't believe the release date is gonna change. Cryptic's gonna release it despite everything and - hopefully - fix things later.

But honestly, looking back at things they never fixed, not even attempted to fix, or didn't acknowdlege, I'm afraid the game's gonna end up being so buggy the overall gameplay experience is gonna suffer greatly, especially - once again - for the KDF and KDF-Roms, which still seem like an afterthought, with FEDs and FED-Roms taking priority in everything.

Oh I'd like to be wrong, but I simply don't think they'll make it, despite all efforts.

radkip · May 2013

The only reason I'll agree that they should hold LoR back is so that they can take an extra month to develop fleet holdings and spend a few days figuring out pvp queues/maps, which seems to be the ONLY two things stopping a proper, independent Romulan faction.

nicha0 · May 2013

May 21st is pretty much set in stone, too much pride to delay the release. It will release, it will be horribly broken, they'll lose a lot of money and customers from it, and they'll do it all again in S9 like they did 1-8.

After release they'll slowly fix the worst bugs, leave literally hundreds of major ones left around, then they'll focus on work for S9, which they already have a release time internally for.

We haven't seen cryptic learn or change their QA process yet, why do we think it will this time? Games that launch polished do awesome, games that are unplayably frustrating never do.

Not convinced LoR should be released on the 21st

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