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Fleet Advancement System Hurting New Fleets?
speciesone
Member Posts: 41 Arc User
Right about now more and more big fleets are getting to tier V... and getting access to some of the best gear! As a result more and more people who are looking to join a fleet will seek out the larger fleets to join and ignore the smaller ones. Some large fleets are even "selling" fleet items by allowing players to join, for a fee, just to buy the tier V fleet items.
I was wondering if people with smaller fleets are having a harder time getting members and contributions to their projects? If so, any constructive ideas on how to improve the situation?
I was wondering if people with smaller fleets are having a harder time getting members and contributions to their projects? If so, any constructive ideas on how to improve the situation?
Post edited by speciesone on
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Even if you were to cut the costs of the current system, the big fleets still have what they have, and that will draw some people into those fleets.
If anything the fact that some of the fleets are selling gear helps the small fleets, that lets people get the gear they want but without having to join a large fleet for more then the time it takes to buy the gear.
Ultimately, I agree with cptvanor.
They put in the time effort and resources. If they want to gain new members by dangling their fleet gear, they have the right to do that.
People still need to contribute to the larger fleet to get the fleet credits, contributions that the smaller fleet will thereby never get.
I agree, they have every right to do with their larger fleet what they want. I'm just saying that there's now a disincentive for people to contribute to a smaller fleet, or to even start a fleet in the first place.
I have no doubt that smaller fleets are having challenges to recruitment. But if the player's in-game goal is to get uber gear *quickly* then that's not a problem for smaller fleets. The members of a small fleet have (or should have) accepted that the top tiers will take longer to achieve. So their focus is more toward something different: like a sense of community that is differnet from larger fleets. For those in small fleets that's what matters more than top tier gear in a video game.
The only thing "hurting" small fleets is not really the numbers of players in them, but the requirements to complete projects, and even that is relative; if you are in a large fleet then those requirements mean very little to each player in the fleet. Therefore, it's not really a problem at all.
So, to reiterate my answer to the OP question ... no. But it depends.
As for joining a smaller fleet rather than a larger fleet, that depends entirely on the style of gameplay the player is seeking. There are advantages and disadvantages to any size fleet.
As I understated it any fleet credits you earn you get to keep. So if I were to leave my current fleet I'd still have all those credits I've earned. I could then use those credits to buy stuff from another fleet.
Again, not really. You take you credits with you and earning credits in a smaller fleet is actually easier.
But there's always a disincentive for people to join a smaller social group. The fact that there's fewer people in that group makes it less attractive. There may be things that outweigh that, but with all else being equal, larger groups offer more then small groups.
Even if that group is your 4 or 5 best friends and/or family, there's still an inherent advantage to being part of a larger group, because then there's more people there to help you achieve what ever goal it is you have. This is true of MMO groups, sport groups, clubs, ect... Any social group based around an activity will find that larger groups offer more then smaller ones.
This is simply because you have more people involved, which means a greater number of opportunities, to socialize, learn, practice, take part in events, ect...
Yes, it will be a challenge to recruit. Yes, it will take time for smaller fleets to grow. Yes, it will be a struggle to rise to the higher tiers. However, your fleet is YOUR fleet, regardless of size. It is the community that matters.
all you people out there with like 3 people in your fleet and out there crying because you cant get anything done stop being so narcissistic and join the big fleets im glad the system is the way it is so it can weed out the trash fleets......and you know who you are
There are no trash fleets, only trash players, and you know who you are.
Agreed.
I believe there are inequities in the advancement system that ought to be addressed, but I would rather keep our fleet the way it is and never contribute anything else to holdings than to leave it for a Tier 5 Starbase with all the trimmings.
I'll still keep the holdings going one way or the other and if we never get there, so be it. I want to do what's best for our fleet, not what gets me the most toys to play with.
The hard part is that we do need to grow for the good of the fleet, but we're having a hard time making it happen.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
This is exactly what I'm talking about. Smaller fleets are often better for the players and the game as a whole. Their creation and persistence should be better promoted by the game itself, not hobbled by it in favour of larger fleets.
No they're not. Not any more then large fleets are better for the players and the game.
Your whole premise is faulty so this is also a faulty line. Small fleets are not better, and should not be given special privileges or handouts. Small fleets do not make the game better, and as such deserve nothing extra.
A small fleet of you and your friends might make your time more enjoyable, but that does not mean that a larger fleet doesn't do exactly the same thing for those who wish to be part of a large fleet.
I offered a number of ideas on how to make the Starbase system easier for small fleets, and I'd be happy to keep trying to come up with ways to help. But when someone starts asking for special treatment, because their fleet is superior to others...
Well that pretty much says it all. Some people apparently actually believe they should be treated better then others, because their way of socializing is somehow better then everyone else. Attitudes like that are truly offensive.
I'm a small fleet leader, and all donators (about 20-25) have permission to buy from provision stores. I highly doubt that a large fleet (100+ donators) would be as generous with the provisions. And there's the incentive to be in a small fleet, you may not have top tier, but you have provisions available, and you can use these provisions in another fleet's facilities (that has the Tier you need).
I think neither large nor small fleets should have any game-based advantages. They are all just communities of players, and a player's decision to join one of them should be based only on the type of community he or she prefers, not which tier they're at.
Uhm, that doesn't work that way, does it? I don't think fleet provisions go with you.
After all, the reason for being in a Fleet is the ability to do stuff with your Fleet Mates.
The stuff can still be had at a discount in a Fleet.
being this seem to be something people dont understand
the provisions gained from projects stay with the fleet
your Fleet Credit travels with you
//now as far as how larger fleets dole out access the FED/KDF fleets i am in are both T4(nearly T5) and base open access on how much you have donated (100k in fleet credits) and allow people with less then that access at the the fleet stores on a "As Needed" based depending on how many provisions we have for what they are wanting
So for example, if someone from a small fleet wants to buy something from the larger the allied fleet has to have a coalition provision mission finished restocking the larger provisioning for that item and allocating the right to buy some for its members from the larger. So basically the smaller fleet becomes a provision machine for the larger, wheile the larger can concentrate on fleet projects to advance rank...
Conversely the larger can help smaller fleets by queuing fleet allied support, in that our Advanced resources can help complete hard to finish projects for the smaller fleet, thus increasing our combined abilities overall...
How to implement this would be to introduce a fleet allied token of some kind (should not be a problem in a game with god only knows how many currencies already) those tokens being traded between fleet leaders can help finish projects or restock provisions, and give credit for supplying that to the allied fleets.
Oh and one more thing... Please for sake of sanity allow the fleet leader to delete unwanted projects somehow. you did so for the Christmas one that people didnt finish. please allow the same ability for other unwanted projects that NO ONE in their right mind would ever donate to but some dummy decided Oh lets do it anyway.. Like the dam tribble targ project that has sat untouch and unwanted since its inception in our base and we are well into tier 4!
In all seriousness, I think most of the people on both sides have missed the real point, but Bluegeek nailed it. The only problem is entitlement and a false sense of urgency. It'd be nice if the prices for fleet development were lower, but they're not the real issue.
No one, not one person anywhere NEEDS top-end fleet gear. And no one is ENTITLED to it.
People want it. And people feel they donated so much they should have it now. Those are both opinions.
The truth is that you can succeed without the gear available from a Tier 5 starbase at every in-game task, even PVP. Therefore having that gear is a want not a need.
I want some hot chocolate right now but I'm all out and can't go to the store until Saturday. I'm not going to let it ruin my day. I want to play Romulans right now but the expansion isn't out yet. I'm not going to let that ruin my fun with my Feds and Klingons. Similarly I want elite fighters for my carriers but I'm still going to play them and have fun with the advanced fighters for the next several months.
If you want to have fun in this game you absolutely can. If your fun relies upon always having the best stuff, and being bigger and better than anyone else... well the word for that is "spoiled", and I recommend that you do some soul searching about what kind of a person you want to be.
If you're worried about a bunch of spoiled people (per the above definition) leaving your fleet to band together because someone else is bribing them with better toys, I suggest you re-evaluate who you want to have in your fleet in the first place.
If you are jealous of a big fleet giving your fleetmates and ex-fleetmates fun toys that lets those mates enjoy the game more, then once again, I recommend you do some soul searching about what kind of person you want to be.
Personally, I kind of like how this has made the game a little more sandbox like. Now the stores are in the hands of players instead of NPCs. Its a small thing, and not necessarily what I think is the ideal way to do it. But any sandbox is better than pure themepark in my book. Which is, again, just an opinion.
And if they have to start a sub-fleet from scratch at T0, they're going to lag behind established small fleets that have already been building up.
So there's at least some opportunity for fleets to pick up new members in May, especially if it pulls in new or returning players.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
They will leave the system as it is to rot like the Exchange and Crafting until they can come up with something that invalidates it like putting Fleet level items in the Reputation system which is the latest thing.
I find that with anything frustrating in this game all one has to do is wait. Today's high rollers in the Fleet system are tomorrows QQrs when that system becomes obsolete.
The only time it seems to help small fleets is if people need Fleet Creds and cannot get them in the monster fleets but can get them easily in a smaller less developed fleet. Other than that: Your observation of this being painful for smaller fleets is spot on.
That's an interesting take .
I was thinking something alike (way before the Rommie question) , simply because it looked to me like Cryptic would put in "other holdings" , and my head was still reeling from the demands of the Starbase .
If/when a New Player comes aboard , looks around and is presented with :
Option A : make/join a Fleet that is in the process of a year long Starbase construction, and that is just the starting point (he will have further "holdings" to build after all)
or
Option B : join a Fleet w/a T5 Starbase
Guess which one of those options the New Player is going to choose ?
But I will put to you some of the difficulties of T5 Starbase owners face now :
- Some are concerned about Newbies who apply now . Are those players in it for the long haul , are they looking to socialize or just to shop at their Starbase & be gone ?
- T5 is done . What now ? The demands of a high paced construction have put in place a certain tempo , a certain interaction for the common good .
All that interaction is left in a limbo . What now ??
Go back to the 6 measly STF's or 4 PVP maps ? (insert facepalm)
Starbases created purpose .
A finished Starbase = a finished purpose .
I think Cryptic might do that once smaller fleet just give up and buy their stuff from large fleets or simply join the larger fleet - which no longer feeds cryptic that much resources grinding up rank, as they already have everything.