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How does that BOP DO THAT?
djf021
Member Posts: 1,382 Arc User
I've been playing for over a year now. I'm not a veteran by any stretch, but I've learned how to hold my own fairly well in PVP.
But I've met a few BOPs here and there that are absolute killing machines. Before I'm even done reading "we've engaged the enemy!", before I can even hit Tactical Team, before I can even see them, I'm a warp core breach. In a cruiser. Next time I am on my toes...I hit sensor scan, get off a few shots, he escapes, then he pops me again. Sorry so long, but I basically have two questions:
What is the BOP build that can DO that? and...
How do I SURVIVE IT?
But I've met a few BOPs here and there that are absolute killing machines. Before I'm even done reading "we've engaged the enemy!", before I can even hit Tactical Team, before I can even see them, I'm a warp core breach. In a cruiser. Next time I am on my toes...I hit sensor scan, get off a few shots, he escapes, then he pops me again. Sorry so long, but I basically have two questions:
What is the BOP build that can DO that? and...
How do I SURVIVE IT?
Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you. Don't let them do anything that takes you off the bridge of that ship, because while you're there... you can make a difference.
-Captain James T. Kirk
Post edited by djf021 on
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-Decloak ~5km away
-Tractor 3, fire high yields, fire Overload 3 and cannons. If done right the overload will melt you shields then you'll get hit by 3 HY torps right after.
What can you do? Bind TT to spacebar and spam it faster/more/constantly. Oh and don't ever stand still. We're out there. Watching... waiting...
CUUCUUMBEER! "-With slight partigen with it."
Proud member or DPS-800 "-We kill dem mines with our scitter turrets."
Not an expert, but I'm assuming the best torpedoes for the job are the Bio-Neural warhead (shield stripping ftw!) and Romulan plasma launcher? :P
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No I'm fairly certain the most reliable torps for this are quantums, probably with CritD mods.
Sorry to say, but cruiser are the more easy target. They are slow and immobile and hence the perfect prey for any BoP. And they mostly don't have any powers against tractor beam, like attack pattern omega, which is quite common to have 2x on escorts.
You should always run your cycle that is: tactical team, emergency power to shield X, Aux2Sif3 + Fire at Will (for those funny B'rels with transphasic torps). Always move on max. speed for the defensive bonus.
For the gaps between the cycles, you should always have your finger on brace for impact powered by 2-3 purple shield distribution duty officers (shield heal) and evasives.
Once you survived the alpha, they have nothing left to fight. In an escort you can alpha him and shred the BoP within the 12-15 secs before he recloak. However, in a cruiser ... yeah. There is a reason it called Star Trek: Escorts online. :-)
That and evasive mans. I only have omega but with these I muscle out of all T-beams.
And the quants are good but I would say plasma would trump them atm since most people panic and use Emits as soon as they see the fire. Sometimes, psychological warfare beats brute stopping power.
But yeah i can't say much... I am an escort/support captain and spread out the debuffs to all the enemies for easier alpha and omega strikes.
With Elusive captain, accurate captain, and all my doffs and boffs in the battle I don't really fear Bops. I fear the ships that can take sustained damage. Those things are headaches.
Yeah, you're right about the cruisers being a slow and immobile target. I guess I was just pointing out how I should have better hull points in a cruiser. I carry TT, RSP, Aux2SIF, etc. Any other suggestions?
Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you. Don't let them do anything that takes you off the bridge of that ship, because while you're there... you can make a difference.
-Captain James T. Kirk
Keep your ears open, use massive hull resistance and PREBUFF.
Yes prebuffing in a smart way to you have very little gaps for BoPs to pull of a successful alphastrike.
The general rule is, the more experiencd and perfected the BoP is, the harder it is to counter a good BoP alpha unless you are equal to his skill and timing. Simple as that.
If you think the decloak alpha strike from a bird of prey is bad you have clearly not been on the wrong end of a raptor, or god forbid a BC.
I think most BoPs builds will have higher spike potential on alpha then the average escort/raptor. Of course an escort can be specced for spike like a BoP. However, rarely see one. Most use DHC +Torp/DB or just 4 to 5 DHCs.
Prebuffing is nice. If your opponent is not a science captain. :P
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I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
Inb4 subnuked - all buffs gone. :rolleyes:
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Ain't that the truth.
It's the great pain of being a cruiser captain, I can survive alpha after alpha and they get away with a good 70% hull - even after I tractor them and hit them with every offensive buff, ability and weapon I have.
I know pure damage isn't my purpose in a cruiser, or as an engineer, but some more offensive abilities would be nice.
The term alpha strike comes from tabletop Battletech where it was a legitimate tactic to use an alpha strike, but that came with the drawback that using the Alpha was almost guaranteed to shut the mech down and make it very vulnerable in return.
Again STO has no such mechanic, BoP can simply cloak again and dissappear waiting for their next Alpha to become available. Most other escorts have at least the option to use evasive maneuver to easily outrun any slower ship.
So in essence, without some major rebalancing that does not only involve the BoPs (they are a symptom, not the cause) the PvP content in this game can be described as dead.
So you are invincible to an alpha AND you want to do the damage of said alpha?
:rolleyes:
I want my BoP to have the hull of the biggest, fattest Cruiser the Feds have, then.
RIP KDF and PvP 2014-07-17 Season 9.5 - Death by Dev
With style while flying through your exploding hull usually
Joking aside, the bops universal based station layout coupled to its low hull and low shield means its a ship that the player has to essentially design themselves unlike standard ships that basically ensure your vessel has enough of each class ability to survive the majority of stos attacks - inexperience or lack of knowledge is the weakness of the class (sure, you can alpha...but what about the 15 seconds you are waiting for the battlecloak to deplete its cooldown?)
Thus the typical bop pilot is well versed in the mechanics of the game and its this that in turn gives the bops battlecloak its power as that experience and knowledge lets the pilot make informed choices of when to run an alpha strike - the bird of paper hull, err, prey is the swiss army knife of sto - not as good as a dedicated tool, but its versatility trumps its weaknesses - although in a bops case, if its built well
As to the complaint ascaladar levies towards the bop, may I point out a little place called Kerrat? As most bop pilots who play there would likely attest, theres plenty of ways to decloak a cloaked ship and of course the fact is once a bop decloaks and commits to an attack, its stuck in a vulnerable position until the cloak rengages - plenty of time to punish, restrain and even prepare a decloak stategy before they cloak - As normal, the tools are there but for some reason people would rather look in the breadbox than the toolchest, it seems
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Aye, I run a fleet patrol escort like a bird of prey (High Yield III/Beam Overload III with High Yield I/Overload II) and I rarely see anyone else doing the same. It's probably due to the difficulty in dropping torps though an enemy shield when it's not a surprise attack. However it does make an effective anti bird of prey measure after you've hit them with charged particle burst.
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Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
Its a problem inherent to the way buffs work in the Cryptic engine I think. Champions Online, back when PvP still happened and before they put the game on life support had the same problem. The alphas were insane but if a target managed to survive the best alha builds had nothing for a follow up strike. Back then in CO we were pretty sure it had something to do with the way buffs were coded that prevented anything like reasonable soft caps and/or that the system just couldn't handle partial CC effects.
There are drawbacks. Performing a successfull alpha strikes in a BoP is far more difficult thensimply activate damage buffs + CRF as in an escort.
In addition, after an alpha strike of an BoP - successfull or not - the pilot need to wait min. 1 min to be ready again.
Further, most alpha strike build arevery restrictive to PvP and quite sub optimal for PvE which demands ship or at least Boff layout switching.
Take in mind that all BoPs are only shining in alpha striking. They have lower hull, lower shield, less tac console, less weapon slots and less bridge officer then an escort.
Indeed. The basic stats of the Bird of Prey prevent it from staying in a fight. It's very maneuverable and offers build flexibility, but the shield mods are the lowest in the game, and the hull is the lowest out of all ship types outside of shuttles.
Common mistakes by new BOP users is that they try to use it as an Escort, which it simply is not meant to do. For the KDF, the Raptors and Nausicaan Destroyers are much more sturdier for that role and can hang in the middle of a constant fight, putting out damage as fast as you can hit SPACE. But a BOP is all about the surprise attacks. Lingering in a fight uncloaked is dangerous if other opposition is there.
Also, another great way to help yourself out against these decloaking strikes?
Never travel alone. The lone ship is by far the juiciest target that a BOP captain can wish for. With a friend nearby, they can do things to support you from going over the edge and blowing up, or do things to turn the tables on the BOP.
Stay on the alert, and listen for that tell tale decloaking sound.
And for goodness' sake, do NOT put your ship at a standstill!
..You expect bop pilots to tell you how to kill us? Really?
Thats what the sto wiki is for..its a treasure trove of (mostly) correct and up to date information that any player can use (provided they can read/use a translation program)
CPBs a nice choice though...the aoe is quite useful (and annoying for a bop pilot) and requires some intresting bop design choices to counteract and no doubt come rommie season, I'll be launching CPBs around as well...unless I get a better, non console idea...
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However something I have found to be amusingly effective is when you see one do that and you punch the EM3. I have had BoPs try to alpha me, and then I hit EM3 and get behind them. Doesn't work very often, since a skilled BoP pilot will just turn with you or do the same, but when it does work, I get a great laugh.
However as an eng captain, you can also hit MW/RSF. Those will counter the THY by giving you a sliver of shield. And also having an itchy EPtS3 is helpful too. Other than that, just keep an eye out, and keep your ears peeled. De-cloaking has a very distinctive sound. It gives you a split second to live or die.
I usually use a different type of CPB against the BoP... Chunky Peanut Butter in their exhaust pipes!
SCE ADVISORY NOTICE: Improper Impulse Engine maintenance can result in REAR THRUSTER LEAKAGE. ALWAYS have your work inspected by another qualified officer.
i hope eventually we will end up with some fixes to the engine problem though i find the best defense against these terrible bops is a good offense.
bring a nebula with a scanning package aboard and those bops will give you plenty of room
don't forget the fact that while higher end bops take more skill it takes alot less skill for a bop to get their alpha high and thus you will see alot of trolls running around.
but as i said best way to block these bops is a good scanning/decloaking package using your buffs sparingly oh and turn your sound up a bit you can hear them from between 0km-7km maybe more depending where your camera is in relation to them.and if you can hear them before they decloak or while they are decloaking you can put up the brickwall and laugh at them