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Engineer Ship Choice: Escorts or Cruisers?

jammers19jammers19 Member Posts: 35 Arc User
edited June 2013 in Federation Discussion
I am a Silver member with limited funds for STO, but I have managed to get an Alt as an engineer, but given that Cruisers are very under-powered, should I go down the route of Escorts and go for total DPS, or should I go for a Cruiser Tank build and go for the Romulan threat consoles to keep the enemys pinned on me?

Any opinions valid
Post edited by jammers19 on
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Comments

  • ursusmorologusursusmorologus Member Posts: 5,328 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Escorts are easier to play, not necessarily the most rewarding but they are easy to fly effectively.

    Carriers and sci ships are two other options to explore
  • smokeybacon90smokeybacon90 Member Posts: 2,252 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Try out the Mirror Assault and Mirror Patrol, and see how either go for you. The high end tac cruisers can be potent forces, even as an engineer. The Fleet Excelsior or Imperial would be the ultimate goals.

    As for Escorts, what you lack in spike potential, you can make up in survivability. Take advantage of a more engi heavy escort, like the Armitage, Steamrunner, JHEC, Fleet Patrol.
    EnYn9p9.jpg
  • johnstewardjohnsteward Member Posts: 1,073 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    that depends on your play style and what you expect from your ship in battle

    if you want to blow up stuff very fast with dhcs forget the engi go tac escort

    personally i have lots of fun with my engi currently.. i'm using a vesta (tac version) with plasma build and rommi consoles and stuff and i do loads of dmg too and a get to use beams and well i like it very much

    especially with the latest patch where fire at will got better and with the coming nerf to go down fighting the difference between tacs and engis will be a little less


    basically what you always want to have is the assimilated console and the cutting beam, mainly because of the proc of the 2 set. also the cutting beam is quite nice and in sci vessels where the number of weapon slots is limited it allows you to forget about a torpedo launcher means you get the proc and some good kinetic dmg on a 360 arc/turret.

    in the end, if you ask me, the amount of dmg you do depends much more on how you fly your ship and a bit on your skills and how skilled you use them (which basically means just to constantly cycle those skills that should be cycled) than on your ship or your class or the quality of your gear


    I often see guys doing 2-4k dps where i know i would do 8-10k with the same setup. Just because they are flying their ships wrong. My beam vesta does 7-9k dps in the estfs and usually that more than everybody else.

    So it still depends on what you prefer, there are lots of ppl here in the forum who think cruisers and especially engis with basically every ship are useless. And maybe in a very strikt sence they may be right but i myself dont really care, I do enough dmg and can tank almost anything that comes my way be it gates cubes or both at the same time, so yeah, im quite happy with my engi right now. Maybe the only thing is that you dont want to invest in sto too much and the vesta i'm flying and loving is no cruiser but will cost you 2.5-5k zen. Normal cruisers are fun as well but well, their slowness is not everybodys thing.

    My final advice would be to test the different playstyles, experiment a bit with different builds and forget about dmg until you know what kind of ship you want to fly then learn how to fly it, constantly parse your combat logs and if you get to 5-6k with standard gear then you are at the point where only investing in fleetweapons, embassy consoles and stuff is really worth it. First learn to have fun with it, then go into build optimization and stuff. If you find you need to make loads of dmg, then go tac/escort or at least engi/escort.

    And maybe wait a bit save your dili and zen till more is known about the may-update and the gear that we'll get from the new tholian rep. Maybe plasma-builds will be thing of the past then.


    And dont forget that engis are nice on ground too with all those quantum mortars, turrets and stuff.
  • guriphuguriphu Member Posts: 494 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Escorts are and will remain overwhelmingly superior for all solo PvE and almost all group PvE. The only place for cruisers and sci ships in this game is PvP, No-Win Scenario, and possibly Hive Space Elite. Fortunately, Engi/scort can actually be a very rewarding PvE setup, as your increased survivability is worth more in solo play where you don't have other people watching your back with heals.

    That said: try everything and see what you like. Mirror-variant escorts and cruisers (RA level) are available for less than 200k energy credits on the CStore under reward packs.

    If you're looking for a build, I suggest asking in the PvP forum. Most PvP builds work fine in PvE, and most PvPers also have alternate builds that they use for various PvE purposes. (As we prefer PvP to PvE, we like to rush through the PvE as quickly as possible when making a new character, and that means optimized builds.) You're also less likely to get dud builds there, because dud builds end up getting blown to tiny pieces the first time they queue up for a match, unlike in PvE, where you can get by with a surprisingly bad build against the Borg without noticing that you could be doing better.
  • nicha0nicha0 Member Posts: 1,456 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    My main is a tac escort, made a sci/sci and hated it, moved her to a destroyer and happy there. Made an engscort, hated it.. boring, made a eng cruiser that outdpses 95%+ tac scorts.. pretty happy that I can tank, debuff and damage all in one ship.
    Delirium Tremens
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  • benovidebenovide Member Posts: 397
    edited April 2013
    Once in a blue moon when I'm on Federation side, I always enjoy using the Science Ships over any others. (Gravity Well, Tycons Rift, etc. are devestating) You can actually deal more damage as a Sci in Science ships than you can in other ships. At least, that's what I've found.

    Overall, I would heavily encourage going for whatever is fun to you. As stated, I preferred the Science Ships with Dual Beam Arrays(2) cutting beam, and regular beam array, and then however many beam arrays I can fit in the rear. Roughly the same mobility as an escort, slightly less DPS weapon wise, but holy TRIBBLE can you bring the pain with the sci damaging abilities.

    But if you must be an engineer, I would say whatever you enjoy. No such thing as a ship that's soly for one player class, even my Engineer KDF side running with my Guramba, I have no issues at all. Fed Side, I occasionally jump into my escort. And still put down some pain. It's ultimately up to you in whatever you want overall.
  • tarrennistarrennis Member Posts: 166 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    johnsteward and nicha0, could you both put up your builds? I have an engineer flying the Ambassador ship from Temporal Ambassador, but I can't do enough damage. In the Borg daily defense, my ship can take out the Borg cubes, but does not have enough firepower to destroy the Unimatrix command ship.
  • rakija879rakija879 Member Posts: 646 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Use mirror escorts ! They are cheap you can find the on the exchange for a very good price ! Then start gridding EC like obsessed and buy yourself a d'kora :D
  • coupaholiccoupaholic Member Posts: 2,188 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    I'm an engie, and I use both. In fact with the buff to emergency power to weapons (and FAW even though I personally don't use it) I could be spending more time in my cruiser.

    As you can tell from my sig I use mirror ships exclusively at the moment because as well as the decent paint job they are very reasonable on the exchange.

    The patrol escort is peanuts right now, and it's a fantastic ship for an engineer. I use tetryon weapons with quantum torps/mines - dual beam and dual cannons up front and a few beams on the aft. With beam overload 2 and 3, and dispersal pattern beta 3 this thing can hurt!

    If I feel like playing support I jump into my cruiser. It uses 6 disruptor beams and a couple of chroniton torps. I also use aceton beam, tractor beams (normal and borg) and a nice selection of shield and hull heals. The aim here is to have a ship to pin down and soften up targets while keeping me and the team in one piece, and it does it pretty well.

    I know tanks or healers aren't strictly required at endgame, but all the same I enjoy playing the role and I'm sure plenty of tacs appreciate my efforts. It's a game at the end of the day, if you're having fun you've chosen the right ship.
  • johnstewardjohnsteward Member Posts: 1,073 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    tarrennis wrote: »
    johnsteward and nicha0, could you both put up your builds? I have an engineer flying the Ambassador ship from Temporal Ambassador, but I can't do enough damage. In the Borg daily defense, my ship can take out the Borg cubes, but does not have enough firepower to destroy the Unimatrix command ship.


    tac vesta
    2 romulan beams critD, 1 exp. rom beam front
    2 romulan beams critD, 1 cutting beam aft
    borg deflector + engines, maco shield all mk xii
    VR neutronium mk xi, zero point
    borg console, 3x rommi emitter array +th pla
    4x rare plasma infuser
    VR scorpion fighters

    tac lt com: tt1, faw2, apd2 (rommi uncommon)
    eng ens: epts1 (human)
    tac lt: tt1, faw2 (rommi rare)
    eng lt: eptw1, epts2 (human)
    sci com: ph1, he2, tss3, trb3 (human)

    doffs:
    rare warp core engineers
    rare dmg control engineer (eptX-time reduction)
    vr dmg control engineer (eptX-time reduction)
    vr quatermaster (bat-time reduction)
    exocomp
  • nicha0nicha0 Member Posts: 1,456 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Using the D'kora now, easily modifiable to the Assault Cruiser or Fleet Advanced Heavy Cruiser Refit

    Front: Romulan Experimental BA, Plasma BA x2, Romulan torpedo
    Rear: Cutting Beam, Plasma BA x 3

    Tac Console: Plasma x 3
    Eng Console: Assimilated Module, Tachyokinetic converter (or RCS), Dkora console, Romulan ZPM.
    Sci Console: Field Gen x 2, Romulan console shield emitters +plasma damage +threat

    Assimilated deflector, engine and shield set

    Tac: HTY1, APD1, BFAW3
    Ens Tac: TT1
    Lt Sci: HE1, TSS2
    Cmd Eng: EPtW1, RSP, EPtS3, Aux2SIF3
    Lt Eng: EPtW1, EPtS2

    Doffs: Conn x 2, PWO x 2, EWO (Beam) x 1

    Very tanky, high DPS.

    You could gain more DPS by creating a aux2bat build as well, or adding in more romulan consoles. You can add more DPS further depending on the risk level you want to put out.

    You can get more tank by removing the assimilated console and throwing on armour, but won't need it outside of HOSE.
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  • millimidgetmillimidget Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Carriers and sci ships are two other options to explore
    That's the direction I'm going to take my engi - tanky science; science seems good for (lazily) applying threat.
    benovide wrote: »
    You can actually deal more damage as a Sci in Science ships than you can in other ships. At least, that's what I've found.
    I don't know about that. The only science ability I can think of which increases DPS is sensor scan, but since it's a debuff that just increases everyone's DPS.
    "Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society." - Aristotle
  • momawmomaw Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    I don't know about that. The only science ability I can think of which increases DPS is sensor scan, but since it's a debuff that just increases everyone's DPS.

    It also is not tied to science ships.

    Basically, people who want to do damage with science need a carrier. Carriers can do science while doing damage. Because your pets do damage regardless of your power levels, you're free to throw full power into Auxiliary. Vesta isn't terribly far behind, because it's half-carrier and has a weapon that's powered by Aux so you aren't forced to compromise.

    As far as ship choices for engineers... Purebred escorts fly nice, but without a tactical captain's capability to amplify damage by a stupid degree an engineer doesn't get the same kind of kills. On the other hand, purebred whale cruisers are just a waste of your time, and your team's time. IMO the best ships in the game are the battlecruiser family. The only Federation ship that meets the criteria in my mind is the Excelsior, but if you hunt up a Galor or D'kora off the exchange they are great ships too. These ships can move, survive, and lay waste in equal measure.

    (KDF players have more options since the only whale they've got is the Bortas)
  • mehenmehen Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    In terms of pure dps, I'd suggest going Recluse carrier; those fighters will rip everything apart, and can easily get 10k dps while still throwing out science powers and heals. The Vesta is the next choice for a science vessel, simply because it has the same-ish setup as the Orb Weaver, but with more agility. It won't tank as well as the Nebula, but the hangar bay in the Vesta will net it a cool 1.5-2k dps increase over an identical build. That's why science ships are, imo, gradually shifting towards carrier abilities. If you're looking for dps, I'd suggest ignoring anything without a carrier for a science vessel.

    Furthermore, you'll suffer a decent ~2k dps hit by being an engineering captain, as opposed to a tac due to the powers. Most science builds are centered around torpedoes, as they allow you to shift energy into Aux to get the most out of your science abilities and not lose defensive power. A carrier can do just fine (great, even) through the use of all-beam arrays or all-turrets, and the Vesta is pretty decent using beams/cannons as well. But, they can take the science hit due to either overwhelming fighter dps (carrier), or agility plus fighters (vesta). So yes, a 4-5k science vessel will hit 8-10k if played as a tac in a Vesta/carrier. Personally, if you average around 5k dps in your science ship, you're playing pretty damn well.

    If you run a torp boat, don't forget to pick up the romulan hyper-plasma torpedo and a few purple projectile doffs...it's a lot of fun. :D
  • nicha0nicha0 Member Posts: 1,456 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    10k from a carrier on pets alone? Um, no, never seen any carrier do that. The Dreadnought Carrier can muster that, sci carriers never will. Most of the good ones when running STFs hit 5-6k, the bad ones 1-2k even with pets.
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  • howiedizzlehowiedizzle Member Posts: 122 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Engineers: Grab yourself a Fleet Excelsior, use a dual aux2batt build and thank me later...
  • deyvaddeyvad Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    jammers19 wrote: »
    Any opinions valid

    I like the color blue, but I think the color red makes me go faster.
  • orondisorondis Member Posts: 1,447 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Go for an escort, there's no reason to fly a cruiser unless you want to be a healer.

    Pick a decent one and you'll be almost as tanky as a cruiser, but with far more firepower.
    Previously Alendiak
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  • supafly83supafly83 Member Posts: 15 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Being a silver member it is a bit harder with limited funds.
    If you are lucky with a lockbox, you could meet in the middle with something like a Jem'Hadar Heavy Escort Carrier
  • mehenmehen Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    nicha0 wrote: »
    10k from a carrier on pets alone? Um, no, never seen any carrier do that. The Dreadnought Carrier can muster that, sci carriers never will. Most of the good ones when running STFs hit 5-6k, the bad ones 1-2k even with pets.

    I've played with tacs in carriers who have no problem hitting 8k, and when everyone is clicking 10k is achievable. Not through only fighters, of course; if that were the case, everyone would be flying a Recluse or Atrox. But when you can run a torpedo boat *plus* hangars means your dps will be greater than a normal science ship.

    And again to the OP, just fly whatever is fun for you. I used to run in an escort, now I can't imagine flying anything other than my Nebula. I'm hitting 6k dps in STFs as an Engi in a science vessel, so that's all you need to know about getting a ship to perform well. Once you know what your ship can do, finding the right build is easy. Lots of trial and error, but still easy. :D
  • anazondaanazonda Member Posts: 8,399 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    I have one of each kind of alt:

    The rumor that Cruisers are underpowered is a myth, brought to the table by people who don't know how to make proper builds.

    Heres the deal:

    As an eng, if you want to fly a DPS oriented cruiser, you are going to have to plan your skills so that you get the most out of your weapons.

    This means that you must focus significantly less on skills that boost shields, hull and ability, and more on skills that add to primarily energy weapons (since you, in my opinion, should go with a 7-Beam+Torp build as a Cruiser/eng DPS build) as well as Attack-patterns and accuracy.

    Secondly, you should ally with a Tac captain that can train your Tac BO's in high end skills, if you use a ship with appropriate slots (Lt. Cmdr).
    Remember to focus on skills that boost your beams, and have a tac team too (for shield rebalance).

    Now. IMO you should equip your 4 fore slots and 3 rear slots with single beam weapons, and a single torp rear.
    This will allow you to broadside alot, giving you a 50% full coverage on your energy weapons (as opposed to dual beam banks up front), allowing for 50% 7 beams on target.

    3'd you want to add to maneuverability, meaning engines that add to your turn-rate as well as RCS thruster consoles.
    Since you're skill-wise giving up on survive-ability, you must utilize the ability to keep strong shield facings towards your enemy, and the ability to turn your butt to your enemy and fire that torp.

    4'th: Want to DPS in a beam boat? Don't rainbow... If you use one phaser beam, you use 7 phaser beams.
    This will allow you to gain the most out of energy-type specific consoles.

    I know from first hand experience, that such a build works, and will give you a pretty solid DPS score.
    Now... Getting the most of that build is up to the captain.
    Know your ship and it's limitations, and you will do fine.
    Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
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  • bond85bond85 Member Posts: 21 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    anazonda wrote: »
    I have one of each kind of alt:

    The rumor that Cruisers are underpowered is a myth, brought to the table by people who don't know how to make proper builds.

    Heres the deal:

    As an eng, if you want to fly a DPS oriented cruiser, you are going to have to plan your skills so that you get the most out of your weapons.

    This means that you must focus significantly less on skills that boost shields, hull and ability, and more on skills that add to primarily energy weapons (since you, in my opinion, should go with a 7-Beam+Torp build as a Cruiser/eng DPS build) as well as Attack-patterns and accuracy.

    Secondly, you should ally with a Tac captain that can train your Tac BO's in high end skills, if you use a ship with appropriate slots (Lt. Cmdr).
    Remember to focus on skills that boost your beams, and have a tac team too (for shield rebalance).

    Now. IMO you should equip your 4 fore slots and 3 rear slots with single beam weapons, and a single torp rear.
    This will allow you to broadside alot, giving you a 50% full coverage on your energy weapons (as opposed to dual beam banks up front), allowing for 50% 7 beams on target.

    3'd you want to add to maneuverability, meaning engines that add to your turn-rate as well as RCS thruster consoles.
    Since you're skill-wise giving up on survive-ability, you must utilize the ability to keep strong shield facings towards your enemy, and the ability to turn your butt to your enemy and fire that torp.

    4'th: Want to DPS in a beam boat? Don't rainbow... If you use one phaser beam, you use 7 phaser beams.
    This will allow you to gain the most out of energy-type specific consoles.

    I know from first hand experience, that such a build works, and will give you a pretty solid DPS score.
    Now... Getting the most of that build is up to the captain.
    Know your ship and it's limitations, and you will do fine.

    Great post! thank you :)
  • hasukurobihasukurobi Member Posts: 1,421 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    jammers19 wrote: »
    I am a Silver member with limited funds for STO, but I have managed to get an Alt as an engineer, but given that Cruisers are very under-powered, should I go down the route of Escorts and go for total DPS, or should I go for a Cruiser Tank build and go for the Romulan threat consoles to keep the enemys pinned on me?

    Any opinions valid

    If you are an Engineer you bring Tank to whatever ship you fly. Cruisers do not need more tank. My Odyssey can recover from 5% hull and 0 shields all facings to full hull and shields in the blink of an eye with a Tactical Captain at the helm.

    So what you should look to is ships that need your tanking help. Escorts being a bit more fragile but dishing out the damage viciously can really use your Engineer's abilities to their fullest. Nadian Inversion and EPS Power Tranfer really help to keep the power on those big burly Dual Heavy Cannons and Rotate Shield Frequency gives you a much needed additional shield heal. Miracle Worker will pull your fat off the fire in ways little else can.

    So given the two options you asked about I would go Escort every time.
  • jetwtfjetwtf Member Posts: 1,207
    edited May 2013
    anazonda wrote: »

    3'd you want to add to maneuverability, meaning engines that add to your turn-rate as well as RCS thruster consoles.
    Since you're skill-wise giving up on survive-ability, you must utilize the ability to keep strong shield facings towards your enemy, and the ability to turn your butt to your enemy and fire that torp.

    Yeah the turn engines and rcs consoles are must haves, well atleast having 1 rcs. the extra turn rate helps to put the weakened shield onto the opposite side which can be a chore when the other ship can outmanuever you.

    as for having a torp on the rear i actualy find mines to be far more effective as you are broadsiding and circling them they do tend to discover the mines and it really helps when you have multiple enemies on you at 1 time as they will soften them up plus are 1 hit kills to the annoying small fighters that buzz about. This helps because you dont have to turn away from them to fire and you drop enough to compensate for the lack of dps compared to torps.

    Doing borg cubes i usualy drop a torp or an extra beam into the slot the mines take because cubes rarely find the mines and really just travel in one direction so the slot would be wasted. So it depends on what you are going up against, small manuaverable go for mines, big and slow like cubes use torps or an extra beam.
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  • seekerkorhilseekerkorhil Member Posts: 472
    edited May 2013
    As far as the original question goes, choose escort.

    Doesn't matter what career you are, choose escort. Its always the best choice.

    That is just the game we play.
  • fletch246xxxfletch246xxx Member Posts: 40 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Escorts will allow you to 'complete the grind' faster, this is true. But think of it this way. If you don't enjoy the escort you will just be doing something you don't enjoy a little faster.

    For myself, it is important to find a ship I enjoy the various PvE missions in. Not always the same ship either. Sometimes this takes a little role play etc to complete the fun. And variety.

    Example, currently my Engineer is in an Atrox. It's super fun for now. However in the past month I have had him in a Defiant, Fleet Excelsior, Mirror Assault cruiser. Sometimes I will add a bit of backstory to rationalize the current ship.

    Does not always have to be max efficient to be max fun :)
  • voicesdarkvoicesdark Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    People are right when they say the game is designed around DPS, so by that standard the obvious choice would be an escort.

    However, the recent revamp of the Crystalline Entity Event adds a wildcard into the equation. If you missed the event the scoring system calculated multiple factors and not just DPS. There's been no official word on how that change went over with the playerbase, but if it went well enough then Cryptic may (hopefully) change other aspects of the game to account for different play styles as well.

    Personally I have both a cruiser and an escort so I just switch depending on my mood. Considering there are multiple ways to save up for a ship that don't require real money (you said you have limited fund for STO) I would suggest getting whichever ship type you are the most comfortable from your experience during leveling up and then save up for the other ship type either purchasing it with dilithium, fleet credits, ec.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • trhrangerxmltrhrangerxml Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I bought all the tier 1-4 C-Store escorts on the Fed side and use them to lvl all my Fed toons, including my engineers. I've discovered some interesting things, like engineers make for some nasty escort pilots by being able to offset weapon power drain in ways that Tacs could only dream of for more sustained damage, which while note the spike damage from say a Tac can cause more damage over time. Not to mention the Tier 1-4 escorts have some of the best consoles for later use (Team Fortress, Impulse Overload, Phaser Point Defense and Quad Cannons). OK, well the Quads have a limited life, they are great for lvling.
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  • dilbartdilbart Member Posts: 33 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Be courteous and grab an escort or dual Aux2Bat cruiser when you're grinding PVE with others because the game is DPS oriented.

    Play whatever the hell you want otherwise.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • lykumlykum Member Posts: 382
    edited May 2013
    I'm always lead to believe I'm not realizing my builds full potential unless i'm running a ship that reflects my character traits. however unique advantages found in running a hodge podge boat has been quite interesting reading!
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