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Leadership Changes
cha0s1428
Member Posts: 416 Arc User
With every speaking about the Warp cores and other changes, I was surprised to see very little mention of the leadership change, which is actually quite significant.
After testing with a few random encounters, here are my hull regen numbers in a Breen Chel Grett with 650 crew
sector space 128.4 5 human boffs
sector space 128.4 0 boffs (no change apparently, but a different number?)
space 133.4 5 human boffs
space 128.4 0 boffs
combat 24.4 5 human boffs
combat 21.4 0 boffs
I combat it would see to drift between 29.4 and 24.4, even though my crew was not wounded or hurt in anyway. It would remain constant for one particular fight, and then change to the posted number on the next. Very strange.
Conclusion
While I desperately felt that leadership needed a slight nerf, this is a pretty significant reduction in their effectiveness. I thought maybe give them diminishing returns or something but in all honesty I can understand them being very insignificant. Even the changes I mentioned would give little reason to use any other type of boff. This does bring them in line with the rest of the the traits. Traits should be nifty, but not game changing like leadership was. Some of us cruiser might actually be able to damage escorts again, but my escort captain will be very upset.
After testing with a few random encounters, here are my hull regen numbers in a Breen Chel Grett with 650 crew
sector space 128.4 5 human boffs
sector space 128.4 0 boffs (no change apparently, but a different number?)
space 133.4 5 human boffs
space 128.4 0 boffs
combat 24.4 5 human boffs
combat 21.4 0 boffs
I combat it would see to drift between 29.4 and 24.4, even though my crew was not wounded or hurt in anyway. It would remain constant for one particular fight, and then change to the posted number on the next. Very strange.
Conclusion
While I desperately felt that leadership needed a slight nerf, this is a pretty significant reduction in their effectiveness. I thought maybe give them diminishing returns or something but in all honesty I can understand them being very insignificant. Even the changes I mentioned would give little reason to use any other type of boff. This does bring them in line with the rest of the the traits. Traits should be nifty, but not game changing like leadership was. Some of us cruiser might actually be able to damage escorts again, but my escort captain will be very upset.
Post edited by cha0s1428 on
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Comments
Unless something is wonky with tribble, because my numbers on holodeck are 300ish out of combat, 150ish in combat.
People were whining and crying for nerfs... so why are people not happy with the frailer ships and weaker powers ?
Be careful what we wish for. :rolleyes:
This reminds me of Relic's nerfs in Dawn of War 2.
They either made things overpowered, or nerfed them to uselessness. There seems to be no middle way.
But oh well, time to think out something new again.
You mean it means that romulan boffs are the ONLY way to go now.
This is why I felt compelled to complain when I saw a thread calling this out as an issue... now cryptic has over-fixed something and we can only hope they take the feedback into account and start ticking it back up a bit.
Joined - 9/2011
"You Best Make Peace With Your Dear & Fluffy Lord" - Malcolm Reynolds
Time for the all Romulan Boff bridge crews... ugh, why does Cryptic do that to its players Just charge us to buy the traits we want on the boffs we want, at least that way Cryptic would save time developing things and could skip right to the getting paid part.7
Some of us have suggested that it be by the number of crew in the T5 ships so that those with smaller crews can't regen as fast while in combat which would make a huge change in the way defense works in this game.
Meh I'd gladly give up my escort on my tactical to finally see the return of eng/sci and cruiser/science in both ships and skills.
Please oh please oh please!
I had the same issue at first. i logged out to post that it might be broken. logged back in to get exact numbers and it was then working. I guess try relogging?
I had, since the leadership change back a few months ago, been trying to build a cruiser that could kill an escort. I went through dozens of builds, millions in EC and dil trying to find something. Sadly, the regen rate on escorts made it impossible to get any significant amount of damage on target to counter the regen, which was something like 1000 hull/second.
Tested on tribble against the same guy and its not actually a decent fight. We can whittle each other down, but now he has to break off and heal. This might be a bit too far in the direction of making leadership a bit worthless, but its definitely a much more fun experience in a cruiser now that he has to run around, rather than just sit still and slowly pivot to keep his DHCs on me, bored to tears as any and all damage I do is negated by leadership/EPtS1
A bit too much of a nerf, honestly, but its a start. I am actually excited to play the game again.
The difference is. It is even more worthless for cruisers and the SIF synergy is gone. So while the escort will profit heavily from new warp cores and traits, your cruiser will loose the regen. So it won't be even again, because your large crew pool is even more worthless than before.
With that said, I'm at work, and I cannot judge the exact values. But I didn't like the patch notes a bit.
I wasn't able to get my main to copy over due to a bug, but I did use a backup char who is also an engineer, though without much of the equipment I have been building up, or the right Boff abilities (had to run with just one copy of Aux2SIF and it was 1 at that and no hazard emitters. Was pretty consistently able to keep my hull above 75-90%.
I think most cruisers will find the playing field a bit even again.
And while I originally thought the Miracle worker trait was kind of worthless, in practice it was actually quite amazing. I would reset about every 90 seconds like to the notes say. Any bit of edge I was losing in the fight would be gained again when 90 seconds was up.
I know of course it can't be balanced based on a 1v1 pvp test. I am just relaying my experience in about a half hour match.
There is a difference between tweaking and doing a balance pass and hammer-nerfing something so hard that it becomes completely irrelevant.
At the moment, it sounds like the latter has happened.
Unless you are playing Aux2Bat like many cruisers are doing these days in which case you don't profit much from Aux (healing wise) and you are also still missing Aux2Sif.
It doesn't scale. The notes are referencing bugs with the current implementation of Leadership on live (namely that it retains it's non-combat rate while in combat, and that it keeps a 100% live crew repair rate while ostensibly scaling).
This is exactly the case. Leadership had two huge bugs with the regeneration it was providing, making it way more effective than it was intended to be before. I uncovered these bugs while reviewing all Traits for the revamp. Leadership was failing to properly evaluate if you were in combat or not, causing it to always give you out-of-combat regen levels (which are substantially higher than in-combat regen levels). Leadership was also failing to properly evaluate how many crew you had for determining its contribution to your regen.
Fixing the in-combat/out-of-combat behavior was necessary, but substantially lowered the strength of the trait. I decided that, while doing that, I would also make its contribution to regeneration static, rather than decreasing as you lose crew - this way, you still have the regen when you need it most (after taking several heavy volleys).
If you and your four BOffs all have Leadership post-patch, it will provide 1.5 magnitude Regeneration in-combat, or 2.5 magnitude Regeneration out-of-combat, which translates to 2.5% of your hull each second in-combat, and 4.16% of your hull each second out-of-combat. While it's not as wildly high as it was before, Leadership's contribution to hull regeneration is still very noticeable on space maps.
Systems Designer - Cryptic Studios
Twitter: @JeffAHamilton
My only complaint is: There's no reason not to have Saurians/Letheans or Humans as your actual Bridge officers. Every Boff needs 1 useful space trait (and there should be more than just 2 Boff Space traits).
I mean if im gona be reasonable it was a tad over powered i agree but could you not just alter it from 20% per boff to 5-10% instead of the what 0.3% it is now or somit, it seems to dramatic of a drop from 20% to 0.3% imo.
Can I ask you what mission you think this will apply to?
If you take a look at endgame content, STFs, PvP, Fleet Events, the amount of time you spend out of combat beyond the start of a mission is borderline nil.
PvP can often be 15 to 45 minutes or more of straight combat.
On an elite STF I think Red alert goes down maybe 2 or 3 times for about 5s or 10s tops, if ever.
What is the value of out of combat regeneration if you are almost always in combat?
Why balance a trait around a situation that almost never occurs?
In fact, the only mission that readily comes to mind where this might even be a little useful is NWS.
The other issue is that, yes that's a nice change to make the regen component static for everyone and not fluctuate "if you lose crew" (which is gauranteed since crew die like flies) on the other hand, high crew levels is a fairly function-less value for big ships like Cruisers and Carriers that are quite clearly intended to tank.
So perhaps you can keep the baseline, but provide a benefit for ships that actually have larger crews?
I agree that leadership as it was functioning was problematic, but these changes also seem to go too far in the other direction and also provide the same benefit to all ships instead of providing a greater benefit to tanks like it probably should.
honestly i never noticed any function at all
do green numbers float above my ship when it heals me?
or ... "how can i track what this passive regen is doing?"
Hypothetically speaking, do you think the current setup if allowed to synergize with crew and hull repair skill would be sufficient?
You mean currently on tribble?
I would say no.
Because the crew mechanic is completely broken as it currently exists in the game.
I'd like there to be a benefit added beyond the new baseline for larger crews for Leadership to provide a better benefit for 'tanks", but it wouldn't be very useful if it were based on Alive Crew because Crew is basically always dead.
Crew is, at this point in the game, a dead function or what is remaining should be killed.
There isn't enough console space to even make room for protecting/regenning crew so crew can then in turn help protect/regen something else.
I think crew should just be a static item. You have this much crew, done.
Crew should never die, it's dumb for crew to die.
It's dumb for 3000 people to die on a carrier and for a carrier to be at full health and still in combat 20 minutes later even though 3000 crew have been killed in the first 60s of the engagement.
If crew were just a static stat, then more things could be based on that.
Either that, or crew needs to be about 500x more resilient than they are now and regen at a much faster rate.