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disturbing attitude
beefsupreme79
Member Posts: 234 Arc User
Edit: because of the yellow edit {within} the last post i interpreted that as being the mods post as well. i dont think that is the case now. although the op has a valid concern, i guess he should not have made it into an "i quit" post
So we all know the issues with STO. Alot of folks have serious concerns about the game and in most cases i agree with them. In most cases it boils down to a monetary issue. I wont get into all of them im sure you know what i mean.
Thing is i stumbled across a post a few minutes ago that was responded to by someone within cryptic that kinda made me uneasy. The op was clearly upset and pointed out some well known glaring issues with the game, and the response he got was pretty sickening and reinforces my belief that unless it makes money for cryptic, they dont care.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=604321
the attitude being taken of "dont like it dont play it" is hardly the attitude you want if you intend on listening to your playerbase to inact positive change, to keep the game healthy and competitive. Making money is fine, i get it its a buisness, but not at the expense of cut corners and game balance.
Post edited by beefsupreme79 on
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Branflakes text is in yellow.
jam3s1701 text is in standard forum text.
Branflakes did not say "don't like it don't play it.. that was jam3s1701. Branflakes simply appended to jam3s1701's post instead of making a brand new post like he should have-- he has admin permissions afterall.
I think you believe that Branflakes actually said the words "don't like it, don't play it" when he really didn't... or am I misunderstanding your post?
Branflakes simply appended to the last poster's post that he was closing down the thread because it was in violation of TOS... He really should have made a new post to that thread so it wouldn't be confusing.
I AM NOT A FAN OF PWE!!!!
MEMBER SINCE JANUARY 2010
yes i edited my original post to show that i misinterpreted the post. so basicly my thread makes no sense now /close
Yes this is correct. Forum mods dont take it well when you say "I quit" stuff. This policy was adopted not long ago when players were mass leaving before... specially when they made major changes like a new seasons. Some did not like it and just voiced their opinions in the wrong manner...you are just reading too much into the "disclaimer". It's F2P and peeps come and go as they pleased.
Great! not f2p for me because I paid my dues both in 2 years of subscription and finally a lifetime membership. That means whenever I gripe in the future and as long as I don't violate TOS, my gripes should be weighted moreso than a f2p player's. I just need to make my first sentence as "I am not a f2p player, so listen to me!"
I AM NOT A FAN OF PWE!!!!
MEMBER SINCE JANUARY 2010
Not true! I know that the staff (dev's and the likes) actually listen to everyone F2P or not
But what others have said is true, we close I quit threads because it always turns into a flame war or just a thread of "I can haz your stuffs". It has nothing to do with silencing those that are leaving or upset with the game.
Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker.
Tiktok: @Askray Facebook: Askray113
The escort bias in endgame content is a complex game play driven problem that will likely take a lot time to settle, while I know there are people in the game and on here who might believe there is nothing wrong with the current gameplay balance.. There has been enough talk about it that I'm sure some of the developers have at least discussed the problem internally.
while I don't know if they have or not they do read the forums, and respond and change things fairly regularly they are much better at it then some games I have played in the past.
But the poster should have expressed his concerns in much more constructive way, and not posted another I'm leaving the game thread which always ends up in people either attacking each other or the Original posters statement.
I was being fascetious... I already know that people who have invested hundreds of dollars into this game via subscription and lifetime membership, and even afterward with lockboxes, etc.. are no more important in cryptic's eyes than silver members who may have invested nothing.
I AM NOT A FAN OF PWE!!!!
MEMBER SINCE JANUARY 2010
I quit threads are not permitted for obvious reasons, but I have never seen Bran or any other Mod make comments that could be regarded as inflammatory, although we have often given them good reason to lose it.
I don't agree with the way he presented it tho his point is valid (altho the part where TOR doesn't break Canon, they broke canon like crazy in that game what the heck is he talking about?!??!)
I also find it just as distasteful that someone used the cognitive dissonance remark "Don't like it don't play it" which pretty much makes for a really poor gaming experience beyond what's already wrong with this game.
It's very true that not only is everything imbalanced centering around the tactical skills and escorts, but also that no one seems to care because once again, we have devs that use their favoritism to influence their title. It's happening in other titles and it's just as wrong there. When will devs learn that they are basically the virtual government, that they have to think about all of the players and classes when they make balance decisions or this will be the result?
One of the clear indications of what's wrong is what they did to science ships. Escorts, carriers, and cruisers all have basic differences that make them unique and valuable....what did they do with science ships? A sci is a sci is a sci. Seriously there is nothing in the list of sci ships that really make one more valuable or more effective in aspects of the sci builds except 1, the vulcan ship and that's really classified as a carrier. I've posted multiple times the differences between these ships but no one's given them a second thought.
They've nerfed sci and eng captains into the dust and expect people not to get angry about it, just amazes me.
That's the way I feel about it too. I supported this game when most people were complaining and leaving, I'm a real 1000 day veteran, and people like you and I should be heard and our concerns shouldn't be brushed aside because they want to make more boxes with keys.
It's a serious problem, these games were made for paying customers well I'm a paying customer. Balance Sci and engineer skills, differentiate sci ships, remove tactical buffs from sci skills, buff sci skills, improve the hulls of sci ships, reduce the defense of escorts across the board so they will be the glass canons they should be, improve the foundry so it's as easy to use as your sister game of which I'm also a founder, make a cruiser and a science ship for 1k veterans not just an escort....It's really not that hard to listen to your paying playerbase.
We're humans too, however yes even us mod's think twice before posting things because people wait to take us out of context or use what we say as insider info, even though we have no insider knowledge beyond what is shared with all of you
We do get urked, and we do get annoyed but my roommate will tell you I vent at him when I do read the forums and things drive me up the wall lol. He hears almost every post I make ahead of time and if he thinks it's bad he'll just flat out say "Paul, you're not going to like the response to that post" and I do a double take
But really, we're quite a good group of people (from us mod's, to the Community Managers, to the Dev's, to the Exec's) that understand, you're frustrated and you want to vent. By all means! Just stay in the rules and you can vent till the cows come home!
And to comment about this thread being closed, the reason why I haven't closed this thread is because the OP did edit and realize his mistake. And there have been a few discussion points that don't violate the forum rules, so I've seen no reason to close it yet.
Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker.
Tiktok: @Askray Facebook: Askray113
Sorry mate , but aside from you misunderstanding the post you've quoted , the attitude you're talking about comes right from the top , beginning with the EP Dev :
Do I like it ?
No .
But it's the result of Cryptic again and again doing a bunch of work , unavailing it at the last minute and then saying "You don't like it ? Tough ! Too late to change now ."
This is their philosophy , they are in charge , they are making money so they see nothing wrong with continuing to do things the way they do it .
Well.. partially serious in a facetious manner. I do think that subscription based members who, after 2 years went to lifetime like me, do have more stake in this game than a silver player who may have paid nothing since they joined. I mean, from cryptic's point of view, we are all equal. But in reality, I really did invest more to get them where they are today than someone who, in reality, drains resources from what I paid into since the beginning. It is like a welfare recipient who does the bare minimum (i.e. not really try to get a job) and continues to qualify for welfare payments, while the tax payers continue to fund and support their practices without any choice. Except in the tax payer's case, they CAN go to the government and demand changes in the uses of their tax dollars. Here, I can't do anything except maybe hope that one day the government will start regulating all of these game publishers who use things like lotteries (i.e. lockboxes) that contribute to bad gambling habits while not being held accountable under lottery law to post odds of winning, etc... for example.
I AM NOT A FAN OF PWE!!!!
MEMBER SINCE JANUARY 2010
While the paying customers are the base income, the non-paying customer are look upon as possible future income... so we are on the same boat
Now as for the attitude of "go play a different game" is a bit harsh no matter who said it. This game is a lot of fun for me (I did play EVE and sold my character legally hehe and other space game) and I'm a fan. I hope the devs will take some of our ideas into account and make it happen, but there are several factors to consider
1. CBS holds the license, so some ideas may never born
2. Time vs money. Like all company, (especially f2p) everything cost money with no "steady" income (monthly subs) people can choose NOT to pay and still play. this means that any development time must have a return + profit. This mean some "riskier" ventures may not happen unlike non f2p games.
3. Technology limitation. this is a tricky one. Some gaming engines are limited or heavily customize (like Hero engine) which take some work to make certain things work. this of course means more programmer's time spend on coding new stuff.
Please review my campaign and I'll return the favor.
If you've bought something you're not a free player.
That's my point. The ones sitting around coasting on nothing paid to the store for anything are the ones causing the most issues in these forums and since we paid something to the store, yes we deserve to be heard more. It's not a disrespectful thing to say it's just business. Customers are always right. People who will never be customers should be ignored. Just the way of consumerism.
I understand what you are saying, but future income isn't income that can be put on a accounting balance sheet right now unless it is on contract and depending on the accounting method used.
I have also spent hundreds after the subscription and lifetime membership purchases.
How do you get silver members who usually don't spend anything on the game to spend? You take away the free methods available to them or make it very difficult to accumulate the needed resources and you make those items "I win" items..... all of which has happened and continues to happen as of this post.
I AM NOT A FAN OF PWE!!!!
MEMBER SINCE JANUARY 2010
The truth is this is a gaming forum which is only frequented by a small percentage of the overall fan-base. If you added up all the posters who posted this month it probably wouldn't even equal 1% of the fan-base actually playing.
And no, customers aren't always right. That adage basically died in the 90s.
Agreed.. hey.. you know what? This happens in my workplace. The high paying customers (million dollar accounts) often get premiere support, even if they don't pay for that level of support, while the small customer who pays a trivial fee, often becomes re-prioritized after all the big customers are taken care of. Last time I checked, I am a high paying customer.
Maybe that should be a "gold perk" in getting your gripes taken care of in a more efficient manner. That might also boost silver sales :P
I AM NOT A FAN OF PWE!!!!
MEMBER SINCE JANUARY 2010
The sad thing from my point of view and I think the point of view of others is I certainly (I don't speak for others though I don't believe I am alone) don't feel valued...
This is one of the major ways Cryptic have gone wrong with STO and maybe other games also but I know that I for one as a player do not feel valued as a customer or as a player who wants to play for fun. Now if I were to spend money on Zen for lockbox keys then I might feel my money is valued but again in the grand scheme of things? Not so much but again as a player I do not feel valued at all what-so-ever...
True, but if they make it too difficult to play free, people won't play.
That is the "hard balance" between Sub vs F2P games. You have to make it enticing enough to play and even MORE enticing to BUY stuff (I guess that is where lockboxes come to play)
Please review my campaign and I'll return the favor.
...reading this thread.
:P
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Forever a STO Veteran-Minion