For once I agree with you. Rommies in fed ships.... it's just silly. The only ship that Romulans should have access to outside of their normal lineup is the D-7. At least that would make sense.
What do you mean "outside their normal lineup"? It should be part of it.
I can see this being a nifty perk if Romulans can get a bound console to add cloak or battle cloak to any ships they fly.
There would obviously need to be cost/balancing issues. Maybe it would be a console with power drain associated, so that you get, say, a -10 to Aux for Cloak and -20 to Aux for Battle Cloak or something. But if it's a Romulan in command, I don't see why the idea couldn't work in principle at least.
Don't worry -- it will never happen. Romulans already get the nifty perk of being able to fly and Fed/KDF ship in the faction they're aligned with. At endgame, that's currently 69 Fed ships or 47 KDF ships.
Yeah, but people got an awful lot of impressions from an awful lot of things, only to come back and declare that Cryptic lied to them (when in fact, Cryptic never really said the thing everyone seemed to think they said). So maybe stop expecting things based on 'impressions'? Might lower everyone's stress level :P
You want a cloak feddie? Go roll out a Defiant refit or Gal-x and learn to use it properly.
I sort of agree with this. I mean, I'm not a PVPer. I have no concept of all this 'balance' stuff that everyone keeps yelling about. I'm just a huge Trek geek. I mean, I've gone on record as saying that KDF players should chill, because Klingons were never the focus of Trek so the fact that they're PCs at all is enough 'focus' (To be fair, I then qualified that with "But if a game company makes a game with a PC faction, for whatever reason, they should ensure that the faction is robust enough to satisfy those who wish to play it").
By my reasoning, only Defiant class ships and Dreadnaught class ships should have cloaks. It's in line with the spirit of canon, in that the Federation isn't supposed to use more underhanded tactics and don't want to be seen as needing to hide as part of a strategy, but the fact that one or two specific types of ships have one can be pretty easily justified by playing with logic (If there's no more RSE, then who, exactly, will enforce the Treaty of Algernon?), which makes it a nice benie to people willing to support the game financially.
On the gameplay front, it'd be nice if the Defiant and Dreadnaughts had battle cloaks, but I confess that it's sort of fun to have to strategize in order to make best use of the way it does work. My idle, rambling thoughts think it would be nice if the Feds got some kind of skill/device that let you immediately stand down from Red Alert (which would let you activate the cloak that Feds can get) but upped your threat level, which would mean that you could only reasonably make use of it while trying to run the hell away (instead of the battle cloak, which allows you to make pretty decent use of ambush tactics). But that's an idle thought, and not something I'm really arguing for or against or anything.
My main point, here, is that even leaving aside PVP and balance issues, there's no real reason for Feds to have a cloak on their ships, other than because Fed players would think it would be a fun toy to have. And it is a fun toy to have (I've really enjoyed having it for bluebooking purpose for my character, too!), but since it's a toy that you have to sort of bend the spirit of canon to have, I think it's fair to make Fed players support the game financially to have such a thing.
only if it has a 50% chance of decloaking into any object it passes through. and upon decloaking in an object it automatically kills everyone on board and activates the respawn timer.
I actually think this would be pretty awesome. I don't know if 50% would be the right ratio, but I think it'd be really fun to plan tactics around such a device. It would have to be a low enough ratio to discourage kamikaze attacks (if you can't reasonably rely on the explosion happening, you can't plan around it), but not so low that one couldn't bust it out as a potential option (especially considering we have the 'abandon ship' skill)
Yeah, but people got an awful lot of impressions from an awful lot of things, only to come back and declare that Cryptic lied to them (when in fact, Cryptic never really said the thing everyone seemed to think they said). So maybe stop expecting things based on 'impressions'? Might lower everyone's stress level :P
You bring up a good point, Cryptic never stated you can play any ship on the side you're aligned with. The exact wording DStahl used:
In many ways, Romulans will have the best of two "worlds" ? theirs and their ally?s. Not only do they have their own exclusive stories, ships, and costumes, but they gain many benefits of their ally. This includes access to a variety of their allies? ships, rewards, and hubs. While Romulans can?t wear the actual uniform of their ally, they do gain unique costume options, such as a Romulan Republic/Klingon Uniform variant, for example. So when a Romulan creates a Fleet, they are creating a Fleet that is open to Romulans of a chosen allegiance as well as members of that allegiance. Vice-a-versa, they?re also free to join existing fleets of their chosen ally.
<snip>
Now that many established Fleets are finishing their Tier 5 Starbases, we expect to see established guilds enticing all the New Romulans to join their cause in exchange for access to the best ships and gear the ally can offer.
DStahl indicates there'll be a "variety" of ships that Romulans will be able to use and hints that this will include fleet ships. Does that necessitate all of them? most of them? No, it does not and at this point it'd be a very bad idea to assume so since assumptions are what got people so up in arms over the Romulan starbase issue (people had assumed, without Cryptic ever saying so, that they would have Romulan fleet holdings).
Yeah, but people got an awful lot of impressions from an awful lot of things, only to come back and declare that Cryptic lied to them (when in fact, Cryptic never really said the thing everyone seemed to think they said). So maybe stop expecting things based on 'impressions'? Might lower everyone's stress level :P
I sort of agree with this. I mean, I'm not a PVPer. I have no concept of all this 'balance' stuff that everyone keeps yelling about. I'm just a huge Trek geek. I mean, I've gone on record as saying that KDF players should chill, because Klingons were never the focus of Trek so the fact that they're PCs at all is enough 'focus' (To be fair, I then qualified that with "But if a game company makes a game with a PC faction, for whatever reason, they should ensure that the faction is robust enough to satisfy those who wish to play it").
By my reasoning, only Defiant class ships and Dreadnaught class ships should have cloaks. It's in line with the spirit of canon, in that the Federation isn't supposed to use more underhanded tactics and don't want to be seen as needing to hide as part of a strategy, but the fact that one or two specific types of ships have one can be pretty easily justified by playing with logic (If there's no more RSE, then who, exactly, will enforce the Treaty of Algernon?), which makes it a nice benie to people willing to support the game financially.
On the gameplay front, it'd be nice if the Defiant and Dreadnaughts had battle cloaks, but I confess that it's sort of fun to have to strategize in order to make best use of the way it does work. My idle, rambling thoughts think it would be nice if the Feds got some kind of skill/device that let you immediately stand down from Red Alert (which would let you activate the cloak that Feds can get) but upped your threat level, which would mean that you could only reasonably make use of it while trying to run the hell away (instead of the battle cloak, which allows you to make pretty decent use of ambush tactics). But that's an idle thought, and not something I'm really arguing for or against or anything.
My main point, here, is that even leaving aside PVP and balance issues, there's no real reason for Feds to have a cloak on their ships, other than because Fed players would think it would be a fun toy to have. And it is a fun toy to have (I've really enjoyed having it for bluebooking purpose for my character, too!), but since it's a toy that you have to sort of bend the spirit of canon to have, I think it's fair to make Fed players support the game financially to have such a thing.
FYI the gal X and the Defiant-R do not have battle cloak. Battle cloak is currently unique to the Bird of prey class, they can activate their cloak while in combat. Any other ship with a cloaking device (non BoP Klingon ships included) have the standard cloak that can only be used when out of combat.
You bring up a good point, Cryptic never stated you can play any ship on the side you're aligned with. The exact wording DStahl used:
DStahl indicates there'll be a "variety" of ships that Romulans will be able to use and hints that this will include fleet ships. Does that necessitate all of them? most of them? No, it does not and at this point it'd be a very bad idea to assume so since assumptions are what got people so up in arms over the Romulan starbase issue (people had assumed, without Cryptic ever saying so, that they would have Romulan fleet holdings).
Yeah, from that, the only thing it looks like was implied was that Romulans would have access to the fleet stuff of whatever fleet they join.
Of course, if you presume that the fleet-ships are the only ships that matter (and maybe in PVP they do? I don't know, I've never once done PVP in any meaningful way...heck, I used to go to Kar'rat to blow up the borg and kept not understanding why all these Klingon players were shooting at me :P), then maybe that is all the ships in any meaningful way.
Fed cloaks by the backdoor..thats how I sum up this - Feds want cloaks, the devs knew the supernova of waste matter that would hit if they gave feds cloaks so the rommies are nothing but a vector to give them what they want
..and now I feel stupid saving a few tens of mil of ec to buy a fleet norgh as now kerrat will be naught but cloaks and all manner of crazy attempts to force decloaks - and as feds have all the consoles for sensors that lets them see you while cloaked...
..yeah, looks like I might have to go vorcha or vo'quv again...
FYI the gal X and the Defiant-R do not have battle cloak. Battle cloak is currently unique to the Bird of prey class, they can activate their cloak while in combat. Any other ship with a cloaking device (non BoP Klingon ships included) have the standard cloak that can only be used when out of combat.
Right. I'm aware of that. That was, in fact, my point in its entirety.
I.E., the Feds have a cloak that's in line with both the spirit of canon, and game-balance. They probably shouldn't have battle cloak at all, since it would break both game balance and the spirit of canon.
So, Feds are playing the balance card, while wanting to be able to stick a cloak on their 5-tac console Kumari-class.
Seems legit.
To be fair, you have to buy one of the 5-tac console Kumaris. Not everyone has that kind of time or money. Meanwhile, KDF get battle cloaks for free on free ships.
Not that I'm advocating for battle cloaks, mind you (I'm specifically not, as you may have noticed), but there is a difference in a toy that you have to pay for, versus a toy you can get for free.
Well, I'm suggesting that Feds wouldn't be able to do it. But Romulans could. And Romulans could reasonably have a balancing mechanism in place that provides some kind of offset penalty for doing something that normally can't be done.
Several RPG games and even RPG systems allow certain classes or people to dual wield two handed weapons. But there's generally a penalty for doing so. Sometimes the penalty is not a full penalty because the class or person is intended to do more damage. Sometimes, it is a full penalty and results in a class that does no more damage than anyone else but which benefits in other ways from wielding two two-handed weapons such as a different rate of damage (same overall over time but in chunks) or increased health and defensive stats while doing no more damage.
I'm suggesting something like that in principle could apply here. It's a different mechanic, not necessarily a better mechanic. Particularly if only Romulans can use it and it has negative stats on it.
Predicting right now that the Romulan ship cloaks will be innate like Klingon ships. You will absolutely not be able to move a Romulan cloak console to any Fed ship.
A Klingon toon cant put cloaking on any vessel they wish so why should a Romulan be able to?
Actually, ALL ships of Klingon origin except the Carrier type are capable of cloaking, but only the Birds-of-Prey are equipped with Battle Cloak. A raptor or battlecruiser cannot recloak during as long as the ship is at red alert; Birds-of-Prey can.
As for whether or not the Romulans will have a battle cloak; I can see the smaller Birds-of-Prey using the tactic (though, for some odd reason, you NEVER see Romulan or Reman BoP NPCs using the tactic). As for the Mogai and D'deridex warbirds - yeah, I can no more see them using it than the raptors and battlecruisers on the KDF side. The Scimitar-type, however... scary.
It's an awful I know.m now we have future romulans wanting use cloaks anybfed ship. cant the romulans, Feds and kdf just stick to their own ships?
This cross faction ship usage is a terrible concept and isn't very star trek at all. To have entire fleets worth of romulans flying fed ships or kdf ships. :eek:
Comments
My character Tsin'xing
Federation captains (who are even slightly good ) do not need alien ships , alien tech or cloaks
Klingon Captains don't need any fancy gear
its only the Really bad players who NEED this stuff
Everyone else just "likes" it
If Romulan ships have it, fine. But to be able to use on a Fed ship?
No. Just no.
Come join the 44th Fleet.
startrek.44thfleet.com[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Don't worry -- it will never happen. Romulans already get the nifty perk of being able to fly and Fed/KDF ship in the faction they're aligned with. At endgame, that's currently 69 Fed ships or 47 KDF ships.
My STOwiki page | Reachable in-game @PhyrexianHero
Fed Armada: Section 31 (level 730, 2700+ members)
KDF Armada: Klingon Intelligence (level 699, 2100+ members)
Yeah, but people got an awful lot of impressions from an awful lot of things, only to come back and declare that Cryptic lied to them (when in fact, Cryptic never really said the thing everyone seemed to think they said). So maybe stop expecting things based on 'impressions'? Might lower everyone's stress level :P
I sort of agree with this. I mean, I'm not a PVPer. I have no concept of all this 'balance' stuff that everyone keeps yelling about. I'm just a huge Trek geek. I mean, I've gone on record as saying that KDF players should chill, because Klingons were never the focus of Trek so the fact that they're PCs at all is enough 'focus' (To be fair, I then qualified that with "But if a game company makes a game with a PC faction, for whatever reason, they should ensure that the faction is robust enough to satisfy those who wish to play it").
By my reasoning, only Defiant class ships and Dreadnaught class ships should have cloaks. It's in line with the spirit of canon, in that the Federation isn't supposed to use more underhanded tactics and don't want to be seen as needing to hide as part of a strategy, but the fact that one or two specific types of ships have one can be pretty easily justified by playing with logic (If there's no more RSE, then who, exactly, will enforce the Treaty of Algernon?), which makes it a nice benie to people willing to support the game financially.
On the gameplay front, it'd be nice if the Defiant and Dreadnaughts had battle cloaks, but I confess that it's sort of fun to have to strategize in order to make best use of the way it does work. My idle, rambling thoughts think it would be nice if the Feds got some kind of skill/device that let you immediately stand down from Red Alert (which would let you activate the cloak that Feds can get) but upped your threat level, which would mean that you could only reasonably make use of it while trying to run the hell away (instead of the battle cloak, which allows you to make pretty decent use of ambush tactics). But that's an idle thought, and not something I'm really arguing for or against or anything.
My main point, here, is that even leaving aside PVP and balance issues, there's no real reason for Feds to have a cloak on their ships, other than because Fed players would think it would be a fun toy to have. And it is a fun toy to have (I've really enjoyed having it for bluebooking purpose for my character, too!), but since it's a toy that you have to sort of bend the spirit of canon to have, I think it's fair to make Fed players support the game financially to have such a thing.
I actually think this would be pretty awesome. I don't know if 50% would be the right ratio, but I think it'd be really fun to plan tactics around such a device. It would have to be a low enough ratio to discourage kamikaze attacks (if you can't reasonably rely on the explosion happening, you can't plan around it), but not so low that one couldn't bust it out as a potential option (especially considering we have the 'abandon ship' skill)
You bring up a good point, Cryptic never stated you can play any ship on the side you're aligned with. The exact wording DStahl used:
DStahl indicates there'll be a "variety" of ships that Romulans will be able to use and hints that this will include fleet ships. Does that necessitate all of them? most of them? No, it does not and at this point it'd be a very bad idea to assume so since assumptions are what got people so up in arms over the Romulan starbase issue (people had assumed, without Cryptic ever saying so, that they would have Romulan fleet holdings).
My STOwiki page | Reachable in-game @PhyrexianHero
Fed Armada: Section 31 (level 730, 2700+ members)
KDF Armada: Klingon Intelligence (level 699, 2100+ members)
FYI the gal X and the Defiant-R do not have battle cloak. Battle cloak is currently unique to the Bird of prey class, they can activate their cloak while in combat. Any other ship with a cloaking device (non BoP Klingon ships included) have the standard cloak that can only be used when out of combat.
Yeah, from that, the only thing it looks like was implied was that Romulans would have access to the fleet stuff of whatever fleet they join.
Of course, if you presume that the fleet-ships are the only ships that matter (and maybe in PVP they do? I don't know, I've never once done PVP in any meaningful way...heck, I used to go to Kar'rat to blow up the borg and kept not understanding why all these Klingon players were shooting at me :P), then maybe that is all the ships in any meaningful way.
But not everyone plays for PVP :P
..and now I feel stupid saving a few tens of mil of ec to buy a fleet norgh as now kerrat will be naught but cloaks and all manner of crazy attempts to force decloaks - and as feds have all the consoles for sensors that lets them see you while cloaked...
..yeah, looks like I might have to go vorcha or vo'quv again...
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Right. I'm aware of that. That was, in fact, my point in its entirety.
I.E., the Feds have a cloak that's in line with both the spirit of canon, and game-balance. They probably shouldn't have battle cloak at all, since it would break both game balance and the spirit of canon.
Seems legit.
To be fair, you have to buy one of the 5-tac console Kumaris. Not everyone has that kind of time or money. Meanwhile, KDF get battle cloaks for free on free ships.
Not that I'm advocating for battle cloaks, mind you (I'm specifically not, as you may have noticed), but there is a difference in a toy that you have to pay for, versus a toy you can get for free.
Several RPG games and even RPG systems allow certain classes or people to dual wield two handed weapons. But there's generally a penalty for doing so. Sometimes the penalty is not a full penalty because the class or person is intended to do more damage. Sometimes, it is a full penalty and results in a class that does no more damage than anyone else but which benefits in other ways from wielding two two-handed weapons such as a different rate of damage (same overall over time but in chunks) or increased health and defensive stats while doing no more damage.
I'm suggesting something like that in principle could apply here. It's a different mechanic, not necessarily a better mechanic. Particularly if only Romulans can use it and it has negative stats on it.
R.I.P
My STOwiki page | Reachable in-game @PhyrexianHero
Fed Armada: Section 31 (level 730, 2700+ members)
KDF Armada: Klingon Intelligence (level 699, 2100+ members)
Actually, ALL ships of Klingon origin except the Carrier type are capable of cloaking, but only the Birds-of-Prey are equipped with Battle Cloak. A raptor or battlecruiser cannot recloak during as long as the ship is at red alert; Birds-of-Prey can.
As for whether or not the Romulans will have a battle cloak; I can see the smaller Birds-of-Prey using the tactic (though, for some odd reason, you NEVER see Romulan or Reman BoP NPCs using the tactic). As for the Mogai and D'deridex warbirds - yeah, I can no more see them using it than the raptors and battlecruisers on the KDF side. The Scimitar-type, however... scary.
It's an awful I know.m now we have future romulans wanting use cloaks anybfed ship. cant the romulans, Feds and kdf just stick to their own ships?
This cross faction ship usage is a terrible concept and isn't very star trek at all. To have entire fleets worth of romulans flying fed ships or kdf ships. :eek:
Why not and all KDF escort should have them only Fed one is the Defiant?
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
Star Trek Gamers
Escorts are fast attack ships not submarines