battlecruiser weaponry

ursusmorologus · March 2013

Tell me about your battlecruiser weapon and justifcation. I have a Kamarag Retrofit from the 3-yr thing, and have been struggling with what to use on it. Right now the forward mounts are 2 disruptor cannons, 1 disruptor dbb, and 1 omega plasma torp, while the rear is 3 disruptor turrets and 1 kinetic cutting beam. Crunching the numbers shows that I do more damage with the single DBB than with both cannons. I went to three DBBs and DPS jumped way up. I tried using a DHC in the front and DPS dropped way off, since I couldnt bring the front around fast enough. So it looks like DBB is my sweet spot, but that is against NPCs flying around at half-throttle and/or stationary targets and things will be different against targets that are flying around at full throttle trying to kill me. Seems like if I am going to fight cruisers then DBBs are the way to go but if I am going to fight escorts then cannons would be smarter but then again I'll probably still lose due to lower DPS so maybe it doesnt matter, just BOGU for the escorts... Comments?

Unknown · March 2013

This content has been removed.

ursusmorologus · March 2013

thanks for all that I'll try to read it again soon, at the moment I'm mostly curious about people's weapon choices given that the turn rate is between escort and cruiser. cannons vs beams will dictate boff skills and doff choices, so that is the root step.

lordmalak1 · March 2013

<corrected>
beams because cruisers can't turn very well.

mustafatennick · March 2013

ursusmorologus wrote: »

Tell me about your battlecruiser weapon and justifcation. I have a Kamarag Retrofit from the 3-yr thing, and have been struggling with what to use on it. Right now the forward mounts are 2 disruptor cannons, 1 disruptor dbb, and 1 omega plasma torp, while the rear is 3 disruptor turrets and 1 kinetic cutting beam. Crunching the numbers shows that I do more damage with the single DBB than with both cannons. I went to three DBBs and DPS jumped way up. I tried using a DHC in the front and DPS dropped way off, since I couldnt bring the front around fast enough. So it looks like DBB is my sweet spot, but that is against NPCs flying around at half-throttle and/or stationary targets and things will be different against targets that are flying around at full throttle trying to kill me. Seems like if I am going to fight cruisers then DBBs are the way to go but if I am going to fight escorts then cannons would be smarter but then again I'll probably still lose due to lower DPS so maybe it doesnt matter, just BOGU for the escorts... Comments?

Depends what you want to do with it

If its just for bullying the Borg dhc all the way! If you can't get them on target then it's not your weaponry that's the problem it's movement

If its for pvp then a more complex build will be needed...

ursusmorologus · March 2013

Sorry its my fault, let me try again: What is your preferred weapon class for battlecruiser build? Single Cannons? DBBs? Beam arrays? D[H]Cs? Something else? and what was the justification for it, please? Thanks

mustafatennick · March 2013

ursusmorologus wrote: »

Sorry its my fault, let me try again: What is your preferred weapon class for battlecruiser build? Single Cannons? DBBs? Beam arrays? D[H]Cs? Something else? and what was the justification for it, please? Thanks

DHC all the way mixed with APO EWP tractors and chroni mines

Beams are for Feds

I do take a set of single cannons incase you run up against a 4 JHAS team or something that won't leave your tail alone those mixed with demIII and apa will tear shields and hull into tiny little pieces

Disruptors of course!!!????!!!

orondis · March 2013

DHC's on my fleet vor'cha.

Why? Because they deal insane damage. The vor'cha turnrate is good enough that it's viable in PvP. With the right setup you won't have that much trouble keeping an evading escort in your firing arc, well no more so than you would being in an escort.

I'm at the point now where I won't fly anything unless it can equip DHC's.

jaador · March 2013

patrickngo wrote: »

you have "A" Lt. Bridge Officer slot, means you can slot TWO tactical abilities if you're not a Tac officer.

Just wanted to jump in here to make a correction: The Kamarag retrofit also has an ensign tac slot as well. Your point still stands, of course, since good ensign tac skills are few and far between. But it does allow you to slot two copies of TT1, which is pretty fantastic. Your choice of Lt. ability comes down to a matter of preference. CRF1 is a nice bit of spike to your own DPS if you're using DHCs, but APB1 or APD1 would probably better benefit your team. Personally, I use APD since you still keep the damage resistance buff if the target clears it, and it's throwable.

overlapo · March 2013

I was using the fleet version of the Kamarag until a few weeks ago and it works great as a hate cruiser for an engineer.

Weapon setup was;
Fore: 1x DHC, 2x cannon, 1x quantum torp
Aft: 4x turrets
All Mk XII polarized disruptors, random mods

Boff

CM Eng: ET1, RSP1, EPTS3 Aux2Sif3
LTC Sci: PH1, HE2, ST3
LT Tac: TS1, CSV1
LT Uni: TS1, CSV1
Ens Tac: TT1

Gear: Advanced fleet all around, adapted HG would be better.

Consoles:

Eng: 1 RCS, 3 Neutronium
Sci: 2 field gen, Plasmonic Leach
Tac: 3 disruptor coils

Just spread toprs and scatter cannon fire to draw aggro and drain energy. Polaron proc+ plasmonic leach makes for an interesting combination when used with scatter volley and rapid fire pulse weapons. Turning rate was about 22 degree/s, pretty good for a battlecruiser. DPS was halfway between a good beam cruiser build and a DHC/turrets escort and elite cubes/gates/unimatrixes could be tanked without problem.

ursusmorologus · March 2013

Found a couple of quality older threads

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=248780
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=244453

Seems like there are two camps, one for beams plays the ship like healer support, while the other camp for cannons tries to find ways to turn the battlecruiser into an escort. Not many in-between.

I did more testing and the best setup for me keeps coming back to 3x DBBs in front. I swapped in a EPtW2 and am spiking around 6k damage with it. I will look at a couple of ways to boost handling and weapon power, but it looks like I will have to drop some healing slots to get more power from this ship. Tachyokinetic Console and Omega set did wonders for my Ambassador, maybe I can do the same thing here.

jaeph · March 2013

For fun, I took my mirror vor'cha and turned it into a torp boat, using a mix of torps front and rear similar to a brel torp boat, adding a mine and vent gas. I then boom and zoom at top speed, not bothering to engage in a turning duel.

I have no idea how well it works in a comparative sense, but I do the romulan daily just fine this way, and it's a far different style so it feels refreshing.

farmallm · March 2013

It depends on what you do and how you like your set up. Mine is packing weapons that suit my needs. And it does well. Mine is nasty for broadside thanks to the 3 beams. Front is very deadly. As it just chews up into targets. Rear is bad specially if your shields drop. When something does come from rear. But which is seldom as I tend to keep my front and sides to target. I ran this set up on my Negh'Var as well. And never had problems with it. I love going beams as they have a wider range to attack. The cannons I threw in for extra damage on fronts. Which does wonder to help the shields to drop for good torpedoes hits.

Forward:
Disruptor beam array
Disruptor DBB
Disruptor DHC
Photon Torpedo

Rear:
Disruptor beam array X2
Photon Torpedo X2

My Breen ship also runs a layout similar, but it packs Polaron instead of disruptors. And Transphasic torpedoes instead of Photon. One is the rapid fire and cluster torpedo you get from the Defira missions. This ship is a very nasty one to meet up.

marc8219 · March 2013

In PVE all KDF Battlecruisers (including the Bortasqu) should be using DHC or you are doing it wrong and probably should be in a fed cruiser instead.

In PVP most Battlecruiser can handle using DHC, use beams or single cannons on the Bortasqu or Neghvar though unless experienced to handle DHC on these ships.

farmallm · March 2013

marc8219 wrote: »

In PVE all KDF Battlecruisers (including the Bortasqu) should be using DHC or you are doing it wrong and probably should be in a fed cruiser instead.

In PVP most Battlecruiser can handle using DHC, use beams or single cannons on the Bortasqu or Neghvar though unless experienced to handle DHC on these ships.

I agree, which is why I set up my Battlecruiser that way. My Fed cruiser is more a beam ship. Packing 2 arrays front and rear. And rest torpedoes. So when I went KDF, I wanted something little different.

Truth, I'm glad I did. I love the set up. Specially when both array, DBB, and DHC chew into a target. You can see all kinds of damage.

notapwefan · March 2013

A true warriror with a fierce heart will always goes for DHCs/DCs and uses reverse gear to turn and shoot.

ursusmorologus · March 2013

Eh, I do powerslide into reverse. And it turns quick, like throwing an anchor out the window. But the DBB has twice the firing arc so it hits way sooner, and keeps hitting way later too. Try it and see.

The only way DHC would be more effective (in the general case) would be if I used cloaking alpha on every attack, and worried less about defensive capabilities. BOGU is an option, as I already said.

lordmalak1 · March 2013

marc8219 wrote: »

In PVE all KDF Battlecruisers (including the Bortasqu) should be using DHC or you are doing it wrong and probably should be in a fed cruiser instead.

In PVP most Battlecruiser can handle using DHC, use beams or single cannons on the Bortasqu or Neghvar though unless experienced to handle DHC on these ships.

Problem with that is the Kamarag has such low ranking TAC boff powers so mixing cannons and beams will ensure both types are never used to their potential. Beams are ideal on this ship and if your trying to outDPS escorts in a Kamarag you're flying the wrong ship. The hidden gem of this ship is it's science slot IMHO.

ursusmorologus · March 2013

lordmalak1 wrote: »

Problem with that is the Kamarag has such low ranking TAC boff powers

That's a really good point actually. The battlecruiser line is fairly diverse and there are a lot of different ways to play them. Maybe there is no best choice for the whole line.

In the specific case of Kamarag, there is room for a pair of TT1 and then one other Lt. ranked something. You cant even bundle an APO1.

bitemepwe · March 2013

The fleet vorcha works like a big raptor with DHCs and DBBs. Actually it may turn better.

lordmalak1 · March 2013

ursusmorologus wrote: »

That's a really good point actually. The battlecruiser line is fairly diverse and there are a lot of different ways to play them. Maybe there is no best choice for the whole line.

In the specific case of Kamarag, there is room for a pair of TT1 and then one other Lt. ranked something. You cant even bundle an APO1.

Sure, you may get CSV or CRF to work but you'll be hamstrung by the cooldowns and also giving up valuable ENG slots for RCS consoles. The Kamarag is a pretty cool ship if you play to it's strengths instead of trying to make it something it's not.

zeusima · March 2013

Aux2batt build on a mirror vor'cha is lethal, I get 8k DPS with an all cannon build whilst being extremely tanky due to having RSP2, HE1, TSS2 and polarize hull. I just recently upgraded with a plasmonic leech console which should also help a lot. Running with 125 weapons, shields and engines and your turn rate and damage is easily as high as an escort whilst being essentially unkillable.

lordmalak1 · March 2013

I was just looking over the aux2bat build in cruisercamp and I have to say it's impressive if one has the doff's. Definitely bookmarked it for when I do.

farmallm · March 2013

On the DHCs they are not hard to keep focus. Make use out of tractor beam or vent plasma. To trap your target into staying still. Then just hammer away. Granted I only PVE.

The Kamarag does well with them as well. Thanks to my Sci officer it gives me access to other moves my other 2 KDF ships didn't have. So it makes good use out of them. I been in the Deferi sector lately farming Dil with it. Destroy the Breen Capital ships with no problems. Even took on a Chel cruiser with 3 Frigates as well at once. More than a few times. So she can hold her worth that is for sure.

jaador · March 2013

lordmalak1 wrote: »

Sure, you may get CSV or CRF to work but you'll be hamstrung by the cooldowns and also giving up valuable ENG slots for RCS consoles. The Kamarag is a pretty cool ship if you play to it's strengths instead of trying to make it something it's not.

This 100%. The Kamarag is a monster if used as a defensive snare/debuffer, but trying to outfit it as a DHC damage dealer is a recipe for mediocrity. For that, you want a fleet Vor'cha.

ursusmorologus · March 2013

Yeah its a good ship despite the low-budget boff slots. I can take out a battlecruiser wave in CSE with a combination of EW3, BFaW DBBs, and chain-firing the omega torp. Only real problem is it cant take many hits but I am probably going to put the Borg set for the regens and hopefully that will beef it a bit.

I'll have to watch for BCs using DHCs and see how they handle. Turn-rate of 10.5 on this one, it should be fast enough, but my DPS takes a dive everytime.

szerontzur · March 2013

I will say that DHC 'lance' cruisers do work nicely with Eject Warp Plasma when they've got a decent turn rate like the Kamarag - especially when combined with evasive maneuvers to quickly ensnare prey and sharply come about in one 'pass'. They sadly don't usually have enough slots to fit cannon and debuff skills at the same time though.

For slower battlecruisers, I find that actually mixing weapons can work quite nicely. A pair of dual cannons, a DBB, torp fore and aft and three beam arrays gives you a lot of weapon coverage and a really nasty forward 'bite' that can do some respectable spike and sustained damage. I'd suggest overcharging weapon power with the setup when you want to go on the offensive though - to make sure you're hitting at peak as often as possible. (I use the setup on my bortas and it has no problems holding a probe lane by itself in KASE when someone pops the other gate prematurely - spheres included. Aft arrays can be used to help the gens at the same time if you don't mind the constant target swapping.)

benovide · March 2013

On my cruiser I have 3 Dual Cannons, 1 Transphasic Cluster Torpedo
2 Tricobalt mines, 1 photon mine, and 1 plasma mine.

Resulting in a constant stream of mines in my immediate area.

I have 4 RCS modules (with Jemmie mk 12 space set, brings my turn up to 232, I literally side strafe when I go into a full turn at full speed, cool/fun as hel l ) , full jem hadar mk 12 space set,

Have no issues of anykind keeping my cannons on target, and infact, I literally side strafe while my ship is going one way, my cannons/front are facing to the enemy ship I'm engaging. If it's say a couple Escorts, if they try to increase speed via evasive maneuvers, they will run into my mines, crippling, if not destroying them. Or they sit there and try to duke it out front to front, they still lose, soly because of my ridiculous DPS output, and higher HP and shield strength.

and by the way,

3 mk XII phased polaron dual cannons with my polaron weapon console buffs, jemmie space set, etc. My phased Polarons top at 1850 a piece at full power. without using any BOff abilities.

kadix1 · March 2013

Personally, I prefer the Beam Array+Torps play style. It's more durable (higher defense since your not a stationary turret).

My current layout is:
Fore
Advanced Fleet Plasma Beam Array*
Advanced Fleet Plasma Beam Array*
Experimental Romulan Plasma Beam Array
Omega Plasma Torpedo Launcher

Aft
Advanced Fleet Plasma Beam Array*
Advanced Fleet Plasma Beam Array*
Kinetic Cutting Beam
Romulan Hyper-Plasma Torpedo Launcher

*The Romulan rep beam arrays are slightly superior, but the improvement is so small it's not worth the dilithum for me.

mikenight00 · March 2013

The versatility of battlecruisers is fantastic, and makes a great tool in the KDF toolbox. Some people mount DHCs on theirs, while others like me run beams on theirs.

I use 7 polaron beam arrays, and one Kinetic Cutting Beam on my Fleet Tor'Kaht which is just like a Vor'cha. I crank out 8,500 dps with this setup and never have to keep my nose on the target. Once the fixes to Fire at Will and Emergency Power to Weapons on the Redshirt server come to the Live server my dps will go up even more.

theraven2378 · March 2013

With battlecruisers, i tend to have a best of both worlds concerning beams and cannon.

On my mirror Vor'cha i tend to lean towards 3 DHCs up front with a photon launcher and 4 disrupter beam arrays covering the aft. I like the extra variety.