Anecdotal evidence of this was clear to anyone who went to Megacon. For every Klingon, there were one or two dozen people in Federation uniforms. In fact, it was the smallest number of Klingons I've ever seen at Megacon. Klingon fandom reached its zenith while Worf was on the air, and has dropped steadily ever since he left it.
They're great fans, they're AWESOME fans, but they've never been anything resembling a majority, or even parity.
Despite a clear leaning in the fanbase attending Star Wars cons to Republic/Rebellion.
You CANNOT base redside interest on the IP. Period.
This excuse of stating that there are too few Klingon fans in a con that has little or nothing to do with **gaming** is infuriating, unsubstantiated, and false.
Redside is redside. It has common themes regardless of the game, WoW, SW:ToR, RIFT, any 2-faction game you will find commonality between their redsides. STO is no exception.
The fact that Cryptic has consistently failed to develop the weak side of their game, and consistantly never once understood 2-faction gaming in their designs from the start (CoH, CO), is the root cause for this game's lack of a more balanced distribution of its playerbase.
You are selling your game to GAMERS, not Trekkies or Trekkers, if you want to have a healthy and balanced game.
PLEASE stop selling this opinion of causation. It is a highly dubious claim and remains easily refuted by a combination of the above SWToR statistics and looking at the amount of effort placed on this faction.
Thank you.
Wampaq@Jnoh, Fleet Leader: ..Bloodbath and Beyond[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]'Iw HaH je Hoch! ALL HOLDINGS FINISHED! - Starbase 5-5-5-5 || Embassy 3-3-3 || Mine 3-3-3 || Spire 3-3-3 A laid back KDF fleet welcoming independent, casual, & part-time players and groups. Roms & alts welcome. Send in-game mail to Wampaq@Jnoh, visit our recruitment thread and FB page for more info.
The problem with this, is that Starfleet is the red side. They may be coloured blue, but Starfleet has much more in common with the Horde than the Alliance. Sounds weird, but it's true. That's not to say that KDF doesn't have it's perks. It does feel more in-character to play as a Klingon, blasting your way through the universe, but it's no Starfleet.
I do think that being able to level a Klingon without a Fed will fix most of it's population problems, but not all of them.
...Starfleet has much more in common with the Horde than the Alliance. Sounds weird, but it's true.
Having played both, I strongly disagree with this statement, and cannot condone it as "true." To what do you attribute your opinion here? I will say however that the popularity of one faction over the other in WoW can be quite different based on the sever you play.
I will add that there is one game I have played where the red and blue sides have been swapped, and it is not apparent until you have played it for some time: APB: Reloaded.
Other than that, I simply do not agree, and dislike the abuse of the words "fact" and "truth" even moderators like to throw around when they mean "opinion"
EDIT: regardless of the reality of red vrs blue - this game's lack of population distribution is not a result of Klingon cosplayers at cons being rare (yes I know that wasn't the actual tally method). The SW:ToR statistics strongly suggest the IP's fanbase has little or nothing to do with a well-crafted game's factional balance.
Wampaq@Jnoh, Fleet Leader: ..Bloodbath and Beyond[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]'Iw HaH je Hoch! ALL HOLDINGS FINISHED! - Starbase 5-5-5-5 || Embassy 3-3-3 || Mine 3-3-3 || Spire 3-3-3 A laid back KDF fleet welcoming independent, casual, & part-time players and groups. Roms & alts welcome. Send in-game mail to Wampaq@Jnoh, visit our recruitment thread and FB page for more info.
The problem with this, is that Starfleet is the red side. They may be coloured blue, but Starfleet has much more in common with the Horde than the Alliance. Sounds weird, but it's true. That's not to say that KDF doesn't have it's perks. It does feel more in-character to play as a Klingon, blasting your way through the universe, but it's no Starfleet.
I do think that being able to level a Klingon without a Fed will fix most of it's population problems, but not all of them.
I would say Federation like the Alliance, but KDF is not like the Horde. That's the difference here if you think about it. Horde and Alliance, and even Sith and Republic, launched with relative parity to each other so their numbers were more likely to reflect their fanbase.
KDF was crippled from the start when it launched as a PVP-only faction, and even now after many upgrades is still can't stand against the Feds content-wise. While it might be true there is less Klingon interest in general, the massive population difference we see today is driven to an extreme because of it was handled in game.
Unfortunately, this change isn't likely to fix the population problem for KDF. The Klingons will now have to compete with two other factions in STO. The Feds have the advantage of a huge starting population. RSE will have new content and the rush of new players joining the faction to try it out. New level 1 - 20 missions will draw some new players to KDF, but probably won't convince the veteran KDF captains to bring their ships out of mothballs for more than a week or two.
Kobayashi Maru
Join Date: Sept 2008
"Holographic tissue paper for the holographic runny nose. Don't give them to patients." - The Doctor
We all know that Klinkons has been treated badly my Cryptic, very little content and compared to Federation very few ships and other stuff. and now Cryptic releases another faction.
This is the final nail in the coffin of KDF.
Another TROLL!!!! I may not have been very fond of Cryptic for the lack over the years but now at least I... WE know we are getting something decent to the point of being able to play at LvL 1 Warrior!!! Not to metion the new missions, ships, maybe even some Z-Store or Science Ships you do not have to work till BG to get! If you don't like it, don't play. But if you don't... you will never know if KDF gets better! Life is filled with so many hard choices isn't it? :mad: Give it a chance!
KDF WILL get better.
KDF WILL get more players
KDF WILL be happy now.
KDF WILL be free of trolls.
I WILL try my best to take my thoughts away from thinkiing we will get *in the coffin* My signature will be more positive now... and I will report to my other fourms saying we are A.O.K.! can't believe we get what we want and you throw it away like dead gagh! You should wacth what you post.
Nsss! (Gorn For Yes)
R'tolves Will Spread Thier Peace and Will Prevail Over the Hostiles Who Dare Hurt Such A Isolationist Consitutional Monarchy!
I never like quoting Dan Stahl but he has said in the recent past that he wanted the KDF to start from level 1 and have enough story and content to get to lvl 50. So is this a promise he is keeping. We will find out in May. While I am keeping my hopes low this is something we have been waiting for, for way too long. Maybe this is the time us KDF players will get some equality.
All the promises to the Federation players have been done, Ambassador class, Andorian ships and Vesta class to name a few more recent ones. So they might be looking at finally fulfilling promises to us. Perhaps they are realizing just doing one faction isn't the answer. Perhaps a lot of development for the Federation is now going to be turned into development for the KDF and Romulans.
It's really too early to tell. I guess 2013 is a year that will either make or break STO.
Support the Game by Supporting the KDF, equality and uniqueness for all factions!
This petaQ' doesn't even HAVE a Klingon alt. He's just a Federation fanboy poking the embers.
You're probably right, there. I guess the blue side isn't entertaining enough for them, so they need to get their jollies by winding us up on the forums.
Honestly, I don't know which is worse. Someone making a troll thread in the first place, or said troll thread getting over 230 replies.
This petaQ' doesn't even HAVE a Klingon alt. He's just a Federation fanboy poking the embers.
Cha-ching! Tell him what he's won, johnny! A WINNER!
I just find it funny how the noble idea that is Star Fleet as designed by its creator seems to have no small of those whom enjoy being the bully, the thug and the TRIBBLE for kicks behind that little chevron
Honestly? If even half the people who post so religiously here on the forums about the KDF being treated like a second class faction played STO, we'd make up the majority of the people who play STO.
Pick up your bat'leth and stop complaining. Throwing a public hissy fit is unworthy of a warrior of the Empire.
A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
I *LIKED* being the second-class faction. 2 is a bigger number than 1!
Now they've gone and ruined it. Expect an influx of clueless noobs, and 20 more levels of meaningless BS to wade through before you can start actually playing the game.
So, what happened yesterday? Yesterday the KDF won 2 battles and big ones if I may add. We finally got to have our faction start from the beginning as the Federation.
We finally got the possibility to edit & customize the UI that prevented many people from trying the KDF.
100% agreed ... , however :
Do we forget about this and neglect those 2 victories, just because the Romulans also won a big battle on another front the same day?
I don't think it's an issue of neglecting 'our' victories , as much as a feeling of being overshadowed by the Rommy release .
There's no 'hype' for the KDF .
Everything is Green .
The not so subtle subtext is right there : "Go play Romulans" .
It's been 4 months since S.7 debuted in mid November .
In an ideal world , Crypic would have finished the KDF soon after (part of the tutorial was already finished as I recall) -- and launched (or re-launched) the KDF with proper fan fare , pomp and circumstance (and free advertisement via Massively) .
That way the KDF fans would have felt hat they got their due .
(and would have proceeded to complain about no new KDF endgame content :P)
Honestly ... , I think that both the Feds and the KDF will 'loose' a bit in S.Not 8 .
If we get new STF's at least there will be something to do .
If not ... then it's either make a new toon to experience KDF 1-20 , or make a new toon and experience Romville 1-50 .
And as Mr.Worf would say ... : "Rrrrrrrromulans ... "
You're probably right, there. I guess the blue side isn't entertaining enough for them, so they need to get their jollies by winding us up on the forums.
Honestly, I don't know which is worse. Someone making a troll thread in the first place, or said troll thread getting over 230 replies.
No, he said so himself in this thread, now that it's merged with the other troll thread he posted.
My PvP toon is Krov, of The House of Snoo. Beware of my Hegh'ta of doom.
I *LIKED* being the second-class faction. 2 is a bigger number than 1!
Agreed. However, I have a Mirror Universe Qin Raptor. Therefore, your argument is invalid
As a lifelong Star Trek fan, I've always thought the Bad Guys had waaay cooler ships. Swanning about the Beta Quadrant in my very own D'Deridex is something I look forward to.
Now they've gone and ruined it. Expect an influx of clueless noobs, and 20 more levels of meaningless BS to wade through before you can start actually playing the game.
"Clueless n00bs"? Ya mean like we were the 1st time we played STO. Naah, nobody will ever top our record for most "die throughs" in a single Tutorial. Yet you speak as if the STFs are the only part of the game you want to bother with anyway. So you play this game for fifteen or twenty missions and drop the results into the Starbase or Embassy and then go back to the Dilthium mines to do it all again tomorrow. That's not playing a game. That's work. I work to earn a paycheck. When I come to STO, I am on my time and I am going to play.
"Meaningless BS to wade through"? Being able to shape my next Klink from the very beginning is exciting. I find the thought people can now start as a tlhIngan (or Rihannsu) and never ever once need to play as a Fed to progress within the Empire, in effect dabble in being a Starfleeter, rather than play alongside them, very refreshing. There are large numbers of Foundry missions which are every bit as good as the "official" ones. Some are even better. There is enough content right now if someone wanted to, they could form a Fleet which only does Ground missions. And not just the STF ones, either.
To reiterate, I have a Mirror Universe Qin Raptor. Therefore, your argument is invalid. With this change, I get to play as the Bad Guys all the time rather than just when Cryptic allows it now (w00t!)
A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
I *LIKED* being the second-class faction. 2 is a bigger number than 1!
Now they've gone and ruined it. Expect an influx of clueless noobs, and 20 more levels of meaningless BS to wade through before you can start actually playing the game.
And others have actually been asking for this for years, and I am happy with the changes, with every RPG I have played you start as a lowbie at level 1 and progress through a mission arc telling a main story as you progressively get better, the foundry isn't a replacement for that,
We need new blood and a whole lot of 'noobs' so we can get new toys and more options, and perhaps a few bug fixes and the best way to get this is via a complete factions starting at level 1, although its up to Cryptic to make sure it gets advertised.
Oh and 3 full factions should provide a good basis for PVP, maybe even some form of RVR.
Honestly, I don't know which is worse. Someone making a troll thread in the first place, or said troll thread getting over 230 replies.
Ironic, isn't it?
Folks, this is kind of why the mods keep telling people not to respond to posts that make them angry.
But it's about as effective as telling Klingons and Nausicaans not to have bar fights with Starfleet.
Keep the D'k tahg's in their sheathes, please. I have to bring out the Disruptor pistols and start shooting harsh messages if blood gets spilled or feelings get hurt, okay?
And allow me to appeal to Klingon sensibilities for just a moment... If you believe an adversary is worthless, why dishonor yourself by giving battle unworthily?
If people truly believe this is a troll thread, then don't boost the post count -- let it die a worthless death without honor.
It's possible that someone in this thread might earn themselves a warning or an infraction for stepping over the line. Don't be that person.
If you have to respond to offense, however, please do it the Starfleet way: Report it.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
And allow me to appeal to Klingon sensibilities for just a moment... If you believe an adversary is worthless, why dishonor yourself by giving battle unworthily?
Nonsense! You dispatch the petaQ for wasting your time!
insert obligatory "I'm just joking" smiley here --> :P
Have only been playing STO for a little over a month. It's been a long time since a decent Star Trek game has been offered to the masses. Getting ready to try out a Klingon alt and hope it is more difficult to level than the Fed characters.
Folks, this is kind of why the mods keep telling people not to respond to posts that make them angry.
But it's about as effective as telling Klingons and Nausicaans not to have bar fights with Starfleet.
Keep the D'k tahg's in their sheathes, please. I have to bring out the Disruptor pistols and start shooting harsh messages if blood gets spilled or feelings get hurt, okay?
And allow me to appeal to Klingon sensibilities for just a moment... If you believe an adversary is worthless, why dishonor yourself by giving battle unworthily?
If people truly believe this is a troll thread, then don't boost the post count -- let it die a worthless death without honor.
It's possible that someone in this thread might earn themselves a warning or an infraction for stepping over the line. Don't be that person.
If you have to respond to offense, however, please do it the Starfleet way: Report it.
Kinda hard to report trolls when the support page doesn't allow me (or half the forum population, most likely) to actually do anything. I'm sure there's a workaround or solution to the issue, I just haven't found it.
My PvP toon is Krov, of The House of Snoo. Beware of my Hegh'ta of doom.
Folks, this is kind of why the mods keep telling people not to respond to posts that make them angry.
But it's about as effective as telling Klingons and Nausicaans not to have bar fights with Starfleet.
Keep the D'k tahg's in their sheathes, please. I have to bring out the Disruptor pistols and start shooting harsh messages if blood gets spilled or feelings get hurt, okay?
And allow me to appeal to Klingon sensibilities for just a moment... If you believe an adversary is worthless, why dishonor yourself by giving battle unworthily?
If people truly believe this is a troll thread, then don't boost the post count -- let it die a worthless death without honor.
It's possible that someone in this thread might earn themselves a warning or an infraction for stepping over the line. Don't be that person.
If you have to respond to offense, however, please do it the Starfleet way: Report it.
I'm sorry to say this but I think they're ignoring you. Well I think they're MOSTLY ignoring you.
right, ever tried levelling a klingon when it started out? ever compare amount of missions except grinding between klingon and fed? and do you find that the the klingon has anywhere as near missions than feds? or is it more "explore this cluster until you fall down dead" part of levelling.
I remember a time when pvp was the only way. but then again I played from the start of STO.
and I heard all the promises and the lies from Cryptic and Dstahl.
i dont care about missions. im a klingon player not a fedbear, i pvp. levelling was mirror events when they were twice a day. pvp was never the only way. you also arent impressing anyone, slipping in the "i played since beginning" so did i and alot of people
Comments
Your argument is invalid.
http://dulfy.net/2012/03/15/swtor-overall-advanced-class-distribution/
1.3:1 redside:blueside in SWToR.
Despite a clear leaning in the fanbase attending Star Wars cons to Republic/Rebellion.
You CANNOT base redside interest on the IP. Period.
This excuse of stating that there are too few Klingon fans in a con that has little or nothing to do with **gaming** is infuriating, unsubstantiated, and false.
Redside is redside. It has common themes regardless of the game, WoW, SW:ToR, RIFT, any 2-faction game you will find commonality between their redsides. STO is no exception.
The fact that Cryptic has consistently failed to develop the weak side of their game, and consistantly never once understood 2-faction gaming in their designs from the start (CoH, CO), is the root cause for this game's lack of a more balanced distribution of its playerbase.
You are selling your game to GAMERS, not Trekkies or Trekkers, if you want to have a healthy and balanced game.
PLEASE stop selling this opinion of causation. It is a highly dubious claim and remains easily refuted by a combination of the above SWToR statistics and looking at the amount of effort placed on this faction.
Thank you.
ALL HOLDINGS FINISHED! - Starbase 5-5-5-5 || Embassy 3-3-3 || Mine 3-3-3 || Spire 3-3-3
A laid back KDF fleet welcoming independent, casual, & part-time players and groups. Roms & alts welcome.
Send in-game mail to Wampaq@Jnoh, visit our recruitment thread and FB page for more info.
I do think that being able to level a Klingon without a Fed will fix most of it's population problems, but not all of them.
I will add that there is one game I have played where the red and blue sides have been swapped, and it is not apparent until you have played it for some time: APB: Reloaded.
Other than that, I simply do not agree, and dislike the abuse of the words "fact" and "truth" even moderators like to throw around when they mean "opinion"
EDIT: regardless of the reality of red vrs blue - this game's lack of population distribution is not a result of Klingon cosplayers at cons being rare (yes I know that wasn't the actual tally method). The SW:ToR statistics strongly suggest the IP's fanbase has little or nothing to do with a well-crafted game's factional balance.
ALL HOLDINGS FINISHED! - Starbase 5-5-5-5 || Embassy 3-3-3 || Mine 3-3-3 || Spire 3-3-3
A laid back KDF fleet welcoming independent, casual, & part-time players and groups. Roms & alts welcome.
Send in-game mail to Wampaq@Jnoh, visit our recruitment thread and FB page for more info.
I would say Federation like the Alliance, but KDF is not like the Horde. That's the difference here if you think about it. Horde and Alliance, and even Sith and Republic, launched with relative parity to each other so their numbers were more likely to reflect their fanbase.
KDF was crippled from the start when it launched as a PVP-only faction, and even now after many upgrades is still can't stand against the Feds content-wise. While it might be true there is less Klingon interest in general, the massive population difference we see today is driven to an extreme because of it was handled in game.
Unfortunately, this change isn't likely to fix the population problem for KDF. The Klingons will now have to compete with two other factions in STO. The Feds have the advantage of a huge starting population. RSE will have new content and the rush of new players joining the faction to try it out. New level 1 - 20 missions will draw some new players to KDF, but probably won't convince the veteran KDF captains to bring their ships out of mothballs for more than a week or two.
Join Date: Sept 2008
"Holographic tissue paper for the holographic runny nose. Don't give them to patients." - The Doctor
basically cause I never figured out hot to change it...thats why
and obviously your not stalking... BOOOM BOOM!!! Double trolling is still trolling BOOOM!
Another TROLL!!!! I may not have been very fond of Cryptic for the lack over the years but now at least I... WE know we are getting something decent to the point of being able to play at LvL 1 Warrior!!! Not to metion the new missions, ships, maybe even some Z-Store or Science Ships you do not have to work till BG to get! If you don't like it, don't play. But if you don't... you will never know if KDF gets better! Life is filled with so many hard choices isn't it? :mad: Give it a chance!
KDF WILL get better.
KDF WILL get more players
KDF WILL be happy now.
KDF WILL be free of trolls.
I WILL try my best to take my thoughts away from thinkiing we will get *in the coffin* My signature will be more positive now... and I will report to my other fourms saying we are A.O.K.! can't believe we get what we want and you throw it away like dead gagh! You should wacth what you post.
Nsss! (Gorn For Yes)
All the promises to the Federation players have been done, Ambassador class, Andorian ships and Vesta class to name a few more recent ones. So they might be looking at finally fulfilling promises to us. Perhaps they are realizing just doing one faction isn't the answer. Perhaps a lot of development for the Federation is now going to be turned into development for the KDF and Romulans.
It's really too early to tell. I guess 2013 is a year that will either make or break STO.
Honestly, I don't know which is worse. Someone making a troll thread in the first place, or said troll thread getting over 230 replies.
Cha-ching! Tell him what he's won, johnny! A WINNER!
I just find it funny how the noble idea that is Star Fleet as designed by its creator seems to have no small of those whom enjoy being the bully, the thug and the TRIBBLE for kicks behind that little chevron
R.I.P
Some people just can not be pleased.
Pick up your bat'leth and stop complaining. Throwing a public hissy fit is unworthy of a warrior of the Empire.
Now they've gone and ruined it. Expect an influx of clueless noobs, and 20 more levels of meaningless BS to wade through before you can start actually playing the game.
100% agreed ... , however :
I don't think it's an issue of neglecting 'our' victories , as much as a feeling of being overshadowed by the Rommy release .
There's no 'hype' for the KDF .
Everything is Green .
The not so subtle subtext is right there : "Go play Romulans" .
It's been 4 months since S.7 debuted in mid November .
In an ideal world , Crypic would have finished the KDF soon after (part of the tutorial was already finished as I recall) -- and launched (or re-launched) the KDF with proper fan fare , pomp and circumstance (and free advertisement via Massively) .
That way the KDF fans would have felt hat they got their due .
(and would have proceeded to complain about no new KDF endgame content :P)
Honestly ... , I think that both the Feds and the KDF will 'loose' a bit in S.Not 8 .
If we get new STF's at least there will be something to do .
If not ... then it's either make a new toon to experience KDF 1-20 , or make a new toon and experience Romville 1-50 .
And as Mr.Worf would say ... : "Rrrrrrrromulans ... "
No, he said so himself in this thread, now that it's merged with the other troll thread he posted.
As a lifelong Star Trek fan, I've always thought the Bad Guys had waaay cooler ships. Swanning about the Beta Quadrant in my very own D'Deridex is something I look forward to.
"Clueless n00bs"? Ya mean like we were the 1st time we played STO. Naah, nobody will ever top our record for most "die throughs" in a single Tutorial. Yet you speak as if the STFs are the only part of the game you want to bother with anyway. So you play this game for fifteen or twenty missions and drop the results into the Starbase or Embassy and then go back to the Dilthium mines to do it all again tomorrow. That's not playing a game. That's work. I work to earn a paycheck. When I come to STO, I am on my time and I am going to play.
"Meaningless BS to wade through"? Being able to shape my next Klink from the very beginning is exciting. I find the thought people can now start as a tlhIngan (or Rihannsu) and never ever once need to play as a Fed to progress within the Empire, in effect dabble in being a Starfleeter, rather than play alongside them, very refreshing. There are large numbers of Foundry missions which are every bit as good as the "official" ones. Some are even better. There is enough content right now if someone wanted to, they could form a Fleet which only does Ground missions. And not just the STF ones, either.
To reiterate, I have a Mirror Universe Qin Raptor. Therefore, your argument is invalid.
And others have actually been asking for this for years, and I am happy with the changes, with every RPG I have played you start as a lowbie at level 1 and progress through a mission arc telling a main story as you progressively get better, the foundry isn't a replacement for that,
We need new blood and a whole lot of 'noobs' so we can get new toys and more options, and perhaps a few bug fixes
Oh and 3 full factions should provide a good basis for PVP, maybe even some form of RVR.
Ironic, isn't it?
Folks, this is kind of why the mods keep telling people not to respond to posts that make them angry.
But it's about as effective as telling Klingons and Nausicaans not to have bar fights with Starfleet.
Keep the D'k tahg's in their sheathes, please. I have to bring out the Disruptor pistols and start shooting harsh messages if blood gets spilled or feelings get hurt, okay?
And allow me to appeal to Klingon sensibilities for just a moment... If you believe an adversary is worthless, why dishonor yourself by giving battle unworthily?
If people truly believe this is a troll thread, then don't boost the post count -- let it die a worthless death without honor.
It's possible that someone in this thread might earn themselves a warning or an infraction for stepping over the line. Don't be that person.
If you have to respond to offense, however, please do it the Starfleet way: Report it.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
insert obligatory "I'm just joking" smiley here --> :P
Kinda hard to report trolls when the support page doesn't allow me (or half the forum population, most likely) to actually do anything. I'm sure there's a workaround or solution to the issue, I just haven't found it.
I'm sorry to say this but I think they're ignoring you. Well I think they're MOSTLY ignoring you.
i dont care about missions. im a klingon player not a fedbear, i pvp. levelling was mirror events when they were twice a day. pvp was never the only way. you also arent impressing anyone, slipping in the "i played since beginning" so did i and alot of people
R.I.P