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Model extraction and 3d printing

wraithshadow13wraithshadow13 Member Posts: 1,728 Arc User
edited June 2013 in Star Trek Online General Discussion
A lot more lately its been tossed around about 3d printers and the capabilities there in, one of which are static figures and possibly articulated action figures, some games already taking a queue with the static ones. My question is whether or not it would be possible to take your character or ship model from the game some how (with out breaking TOS or any thing like that) for the purpose of getting this done. I know that the game lets you save images for costume purposes, but what about the entire 3d model?

What are the devs opinions on the idea of figures based on the player characters? Is there any chance of being able to take the characters or ships from the game with out getting banned?

I honestly think there's a lot of money to be made by cryptic for having this type of feature running across all 3 games, especially with Star Trek, super heroes, and D&D licensing under their belt.
Post edited by wraithshadow13 on

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    centersolacecentersolace Member Posts: 11,178 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    It's been mentioned before, and the opinions on it have been mixed. Personally, I really want a mini version of my ship to fly around the house when the internet is down. :D
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    ashkrik23ashkrik23 Member Posts: 10,809 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Oh I would love this... Could put all my cats beside my Lion Statues :D. Cryptic, you would make a lot of money of off this. Make it so!
    King of Lions rawr! Protect the wildlife of the world. Check out my foundry series Perfection and Scars of the Pride. arcgames.com/en/forums#/discussion/1138650/ashkrik23s-foundry-missions
    ashkrik_by_lindale_ff-d65zc3i.png
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    suprcheesesuprcheese Member Posts: 117 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    The base models the game uses have (and I quote) "some weird compression" applied to them, and are to the best of my knowledge unextractable without the toolset the devs use.
    There is no problem in the galaxy that cannot be solved with sufficient application of firepower.
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    ashkrik23ashkrik23 Member Posts: 10,809 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    suprcheese wrote: »
    The base models the game uses have (and I quote) "weird compression" applied to them, and are to the best of my knowledge unextractable without the toolset the devs use.

    I'm sure they could work something out with the program provider.
    King of Lions rawr! Protect the wildlife of the world. Check out my foundry series Perfection and Scars of the Pride. arcgames.com/en/forums#/discussion/1138650/ashkrik23s-foundry-missions
    ashkrik_by_lindale_ff-d65zc3i.png
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    centersolacecentersolace Member Posts: 11,178 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    suprcheese wrote: »
    The base models the game uses have (and I quote) "some weird compression" applied to them, and are to the best of my knowledge unextractable without the toolset the devs use.

    Sadly yes, I have looked into this myself. The best I can determine is that they are some bizarre form of Geometry File. No matter what I do, it always comes out garbled. :(
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    wraithshadow13wraithshadow13 Member Posts: 1,728 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    All the more reason for Cryptic to get involved with a 3d printing company, not only would they be able to use the direct models, but they'd also be able to use the models for weapons and such for accessories, custom ship set ups (borg set or mixed models), each time something new was added to the game it would automatically add more customization to the figures. There's also a ton of different ways to articulate them, even in a 3 3/4 scale, like star wars or GI Joe figures and the microman figure style with the option of interchangable heads and hands. Considering how bad the 2009 trek figures were for the movie, it would easily be the best figure set to date. CBS would be able to make a huge cut from this as well.
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    koppenflakkoppenflak Member Posts: 191 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    ashkrik23 wrote: »
    I'm sure they could work something out with the program provider.

    The toolset would be a post-build import process used only to get the ship in to the engine.

    I'm willing to bet the original meshes are constructed in either 3DS Max or Maya. (Source: I'm a 3D modeller by trade...)

    So they almost certainly have 3D-printer-friendly files on-hand somewhere in their office.

    The additional problem you may find you have is the level of detail on the base mesh. At the moment, most 3D printers only recognise the basic geometry (3D spatial coordinates defining the ship's boundaries) and not additional attributes more specific to CGI and Animation.

    So if the Developers are using particularly complex Normal Mapping (That is; overlapping a high-detail set of coordinates on to low-detail geometry to save on memory) you may find that the model is an unrecognisable blob if you strip away its more advanced attributes down to just the 'shell'.

    I ran in to that problem when I was digging the model of the Hyperion from Starcraft II's map editor - her normal map was so complex that the ship was a mis-shapen mess when I managed to import it in to Maya. Significant rebuilding would be required to make a useable 3D printing model.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    sander233sander233 Member Posts: 3,992 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    *checks the internet for 3D printers*
    16d89073-5444-45ad-9053-45434ac9498f.png~original

    ...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
    - Anne Bredon
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    lindalefflindaleff Member Posts: 3,734 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    I would greatly love to have a statue of Suroo, and to have a model of my ship! If this kind of this could be done, I would definitely buy it. :D
    I completed a 2-man CSE, ISE, and KASE, Optionals included. And I soloed Winter Invasion.
    My Ship Builds: USS Conqueror, HMS Victorious, HMS Concord, ISS Queen Elizabeth, Black Widow III
    Click here to view my DeviantArt.
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    nuh5000nuh5000 Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    I used to use a program called "3D Ripper DX" (I think it's no longer in development and support DX9 only) to rip 3D scenes straight from directX's vbuffer into a 3DS/OBJ file. It's worked successfully for me in other games, but I've not tried it in STO, so have no idea how it'd turn out.
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    azurianstarazurianstar Member Posts: 6,985 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    wraithshadow13 wrote: »
    A lot more lately its been tossed around about 3d printers and the capabilities there in, one of which are static figures and possibly articulated action figures, some games already taking a queue with the static ones. My question is whether or not it would be possible to take your character or ship model from the game some how (with out breaking TOS or any thing like that) for the purpose of getting this done. I know that the game lets you save images for costume purposes, but what about the entire 3d model?

    What are the devs opinions on the idea of figures based on the player characters? Is there any chance of being able to take the characters or ships from the game with out getting banned?

    I honestly think there's a lot of money to be made by cryptic for having this type of feature running across all 3 games, especially with Star Trek, super heroes, and D&D licensing under their belt.


    Ripping from the game might be a violation of the TOS. But if you modeled it yourself, then printed it, it should be okay.

    But 3D Printing isn't exactly cheap, even if you used a small prototype.
    koppenflak wrote: »
    The toolset would be a post-build import process used only to get the ship in to the engine.

    I'm willing to bet the original meshes are constructed in either 3DS Max or Maya. (Source: I'm a 3D modeller by trade...)

    A long time ago, when CapnLogan was around, I believe he said they used 3D Max.
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    leviathan99#2867 leviathan99
    leviathan99#2867
         Member Posts: 7,747 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Some people have done this already and there are 3D printer sites with STO ships in them if you dig.

    Actually, I know how to do this myself.

    However...

    It's a lot of headache and legally questionable and you'll have to assemble and touch up the model in 3DS Max and re-do the hull texture, likely from scratch.

    Your best bet would be if a CBS licensee worked out a deal for toys with snap on parts for switching ship models or licensed some Cryptic designs.

    And that would not be impossible but it would also involve headache.

    I will say this: I wish somebody would contact Playmates about the idea of releasing STO toys. Action figures with swappable heads/hands and ships with a snap on building component.

    But first I think you'd have to see a STO comic and other tie-ins. I think a comic could really take off but, again, logistical headache. And I believe it's been tried.
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    p41nm4k3rp41nm4k3r Member Posts: 3
    edited March 2013
    The game models aren't even that great, I'm pretty sure if you dig through some CG forums you could find far better ones.
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    ashkrik23ashkrik23 Member Posts: 10,809 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    I'm amazed this hasn't gotten more support.
    King of Lions rawr! Protect the wildlife of the world. Check out my foundry series Perfection and Scars of the Pride. arcgames.com/en/forums#/discussion/1138650/ashkrik23s-foundry-missions
    ashkrik_by_lindale_ff-d65zc3i.png
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    thomasjandrewsthomasjandrews Member Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    If I remember rightly this was suggested before and when cryptic looked into it to get a ship model looking actually like your ship would cost $500 and some ships wouldn't be able to be printed because the nacelles would fall off.
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    lordagamemnonb5lordagamemnonb5 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    thomasjandrews wrote: »
    If I remember rightly this was suggested before and when cryptic looked into it to get a ship model looking actually like your ship would cost $500 and some ships wouldn't be able to be printed because the nacelles would fall off.

    Make the nacelles seperate and have the buyer glue them one (like with some resin models).
    How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
    Star Trek: The Original Grind
    Star Trek: The Next Grind
    Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
    Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
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    misterde3misterde3 Member Posts: 4,195 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    lordagamemnonb5 wrote: »
    Make the nacelles seperate and have the buyer glue them one (like with some resin models).

    That's not the problem:

    Some of the designs only work because they are computer models.
    Take the "Nomad" Star Cruiser as an example: the nacelles are big yet the pylons are rather small.
    To hold the nacelles you can't make the pylons out of the same material as the nacelles as the pylons would either break or bend too much under the weight.

    Some of the more...exotic ships can't handle gravity.
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    jumpingjsjumpingjs Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    centersolace wrote: »
    It's been mentioned before, and the opinions on it have been mixed. Personally, I really want a mini version of my ship to fly around the house when the internet is down. :D

    I could not have said anything better ...
    Hopefully I'll come back from my break; this break is fun; I play intellectual games.

    I hope STO get's better ...
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    david90532david90532 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    It'd be so cool to have all my ships 3d printed, hang them from the ceiling or something. 3d printed onto what? Styrofoam?
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    ashkrik23ashkrik23 Member Posts: 10,809 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    david90532 wrote: »
    It'd be so cool to have all my ships 3d printed, hang them from the ceiling or something. 3d printed onto what? Styrofoam?

    It's 3D printing. Basically is used to scan an image or model of some kind in the virtual world, then use that to make something like an actual figure IRL.
    King of Lions rawr! Protect the wildlife of the world. Check out my foundry series Perfection and Scars of the Pride. arcgames.com/en/forums#/discussion/1138650/ashkrik23s-foundry-missions
    ashkrik_by_lindale_ff-d65zc3i.png
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    snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,084 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    That seems like a really complicated way to go about things when they could just produce plastic toys of their ship models the old fashioned way. It's not like there's that much variety. Heck, they could also do some pretty generic versions of captains too since their character creator still has a pretty basic setup on what you can create.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    centersolacecentersolace Member Posts: 11,178 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    snoggymack22 wrote: »
    That seems like a really complicated way to go about things when they could just produce plastic toys of their ship models the old fashioned way. It's not like there's that much variety. Heck, they could also do some pretty generic versions of captains too since their character creator still has a pretty basic setup on what you can create.

    The more complex 3D Printers can pull off some rather impressive paint jobs with tools built into the machine, so you could give the ships custom names, paint jobs, and registry numbers.
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    foundrelicfoundrelic Member Posts: 1,380 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Honestly this should be something you get when you spend $20-$50 on a ship/shipset.

    I'd love to be able to line a shelf on my wall with miniature ships I've purchased.
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    razoreyestorazoreyesto Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I've actually been trying to get some traction on this myself. I'm really interested in making a full-sized STO MACO outfit or federation suit for cosplay events (using Pepakura or Papercraft techniques).

    Halo and Ironman are done the same way where the 3D models are used to produce a paper form that is constructed and then coated in epoxy resin and hardened, then painted. Loads of fan sites around but very few items for Star Trek.

    However, I recently worked on a 3D model of the Compression Phaser Rifle III for this sole purpose of creating it in physical form but I'd like to see if Cryptic could release official low-ploygon versions of the STO weapons - it would save me a lot of effort!

    If anyone would like to get hold of the file for the phaser rifle I have created, I'm willing to share... but if anyone is also working on version of the suit or helmet, let's try and work together on it.

    Zamil@razoreye2005
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    jetwtfjetwtf Member Posts: 1,207
    edited June 2013
    suprcheese wrote: »
    The base models the game uses have (and I quote) "some weird compression" applied to them, and are to the best of my knowledge unextractable without the toolset the devs use.

    How is this unusual? Every game is different as far as the 3d models are concerned. As for unextractable. Not true, theres a plugin for a popular 3d modeling program that will rip 3d models from a game while its being played thought it will not be exact and cannot be used in the game if changed, and does not include bones and animation, basic model is easy. I wont go any further but what the OP is asking for is already available.
    Join Date: Nobody cares.
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    amahoodamahood Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    wraithshadow13 wrote: »
    A lot more lately its been tossed around about 3d printers and the capabilities there in, one of which are static figures and possibly articulated action figures, some games already taking a queue with the static ones. My question is whether or not it would be possible to take your character or ship model from the game some how (with out breaking TOS or any thing like that) for the purpose of getting this done. I know that the game lets you save images for costume purposes, but what about the entire 3d model?

    What are the devs opinions on the idea of figures based on the player characters? Is there any chance of being able to take the characters or ships from the game with out getting banned?

    I honestly think there's a lot of money to be made by cryptic for having this type of feature running across all 3 games, especially with Star Trek, super heroes, and D&D licensing under their belt.

    I like that idea. Also what would be cool, is if they made some episodes in the game using characters we've made perhaps. Or heck, even put it in a tv show.


    ---post above is amahood's---

    EDIT: Closed for necroing an old thread. Remember, if a thread has been inactive for 30 days, you should not post to it. Feel free to create a new thread on the subject if you would like to discuss further :) ~BranFlakes
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