test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Could I get some feedback for my latest mission?
geoff484
Member Posts: 209 Arc User
Hey guys,
I just made my first foundry mission in years because I hadn't really had any creaive motivation until recently.
It's a Fed mission called Preservers of Nevara and the storyline I wrote for this mission really means a lot to me so I'd love to hear some honest feedback!
There may be some grammatical issues I may have overlooked, I went over it a few times but I always end up finding something new.
Anyways, give it a go and let me know what you think!
I just made my first foundry mission in years because I hadn't really had any creaive motivation until recently.
It's a Fed mission called Preservers of Nevara and the storyline I wrote for this mission really means a lot to me so I'd love to hear some honest feedback!
There may be some grammatical issues I may have overlooked, I went over it a few times but I always end up finding something new.
Anyways, give it a go and let me know what you think!
Post edited by geoff484 on
0
Comments
The story and characters are both excellent, and the mission has the "feel" of a Star Trek episode. I'm sure I set the average play time higher than it would be, because I'm the type to go through and really really look at everything, and try everything...
... plus i was taking tons of notes.
I hope a detailed review with some (hopefully) helpful suggestions is welcome.
My apologies if it is not.
To start the Distress Call beginning is awesome.
Maybe note in the mission description that the mission is best accepted in Sector space for the right "feel". I was happily flying around Sirius when I took the mission and that just made it perfect.
of note, the mission start door is unclear. You should note both in the text that will show up in their journal and as the name of the first objective (so the first map name) Distress Call : Reyton System.
if someone accepts the mission, and just lets it sit in their journal, as it is now, they may easily forget where it begins.
I am going to try and be as vague as I can to avoid spoiling any of your excellent story in this detailed review. See Vague Detail, I am attempting to achieve an oxymoron :P
I noticed in the first space map, and a few other times that you forgot to rename an asset used as an objective point, or simply placed on a map, so they by default show up as something like Weapon Platform #02 , which can be changed with a simple renaming of the asset to something appropriate, like simply "station".
I noticed aboard the station. People seem really calm about fire and damaged sections and such. Medics working on people like 6 inches from a flaming bulkhead, etc. Just a thing a noticed. Also , one coughing fellow is half in a wall
Just simple placement adjustments. Don't forget you can turn off those stinking Snap To buttons up top.
Many times you have maps with only 1 or no objective. things like leaving a system and such. It makes for a lot of loading screens, and something I have started learning recently is that while my machine and patience level sees that as no big deal, even so much as I personally like the way you did it, but there are some who dislike a lot of map transfers with very little to do.
On that planet, I wanted to help people laying on the ground, injured.
I want more to do there before heading into the structure.
Now the mission has what I consider two "boss" fights.
Both are built up to be pretty tough.
I ripped through them both.
Not sure what level mobs you used, but the space big bad, gone in 10 seconds.
It was a bit anti climatic.
The ground finale was more challenging, but still left me wanting, I don't know ... something more.
The final dialog tree is excellent, though the shift in the big bad feels like it comes from out of left field a little.
Like I said.
This is an excellent mission.
It's a very compelling story, with yes a few grammatical and spelling things i noticed but forgot as quickly. I look forward to playing other things you write, and really encourage you to keep learning the tricks of the foundry tool, because you are a really good storyteller. I want to play more missions by you.
I don't believe in the star rating system all that much.
My kind of review is what you get above.
That and as much dilithium as they let me tip you.
I would have given more.
Gonna be talking this one up this week on the Foundry Roundtable, by the way.
Peace and Long Life
- John
All of these points I haven't thought of (I'm still somewhat confused on naming objectives and things like that) but I am making note of them and going to fic them. This last paragraph I wanted to discuss because even as I was making the map I knew it would be a concern to a number of players. I was conflicted between wanting to make the story flow together and get my story out there, or shoving in objectives for the sake of gameplay. I even winced publishing this knowing these flaws were in there and relied on the hope that the story would be good enough for people to not be too concerned about the loading times. I'd really love some creative advice on how this is done because I do want to have an interesting gameplay experience to go along the story, but I don't want the objectives filling these maps to feel forced, if that makes any sense.
I did not think of that and as soon as I read this part my wheels started rolling, because I personally loved the map and the atmosphere I built for that world and it does feel that it needs a lot more to it. Before I revisit this I'm going to run through some tutorials on youtube and learn about optional objectives and the like and hopefully make this world a lot more immersive.
I'm glad you pointed this out, because during editing the enemies would just disappear in the middle of combat and the objective couldn't be complete. I figured this would just fix itself after publishing (which it did) but I didn't know what certain enemies were like in combat because I would use the "kill enemy" button just to test how the story progressed.
So I will definitely revisit this and see what I can do to make the enemies more challenging.
I see where you're coming from and this is the only thing I would defend, but I'm still more than open to feedback. I wanted to portray the boss as being so confident that his ethics were perfect to the point of being almost crazy about them. The thought of being anything short of perfect in his ethics is inconceivable to him to the point of almost being psychotic.
Thank you so much!
I wasn't considering going back into the foundry until reading your post and how constructive and helpful your criticism was, it really got my wheels going and I played the mission again since I first read your post and I feel there is more I can tell about these characters and their future. I have all sorts of ideas for a followup and where to take this society. I didn't intend on doing a sequel, when it was done I felt I said all I needed to say but then I read your post, replayed the mission, and I just started to feel the need to say a lot more with a future sequel.
First, I'm going to polish this one up to the best of my ability while writing the framework for the followup in word. Once I'm finished with those things, if you want, I will send you the title to the second act.
Again, thank you so much for the helpful advice and constructive criticism(those can be difficult to come by at times).
I will be listening to your show, is there a link and a date I could get to listen to more about what you have to say on your show?
Drogyn1701 usually posts links both here and at StarbaseUGC.Com.
So far as renaming assets and other little tricks and tips, questions, etc.
There are a ton of resources available in the form of tutorials both written and video.
There is also a chatroom where people often are there for real time help with questions.
StarbaseUGC.Com
Seriously. It's a great resource.
Again. Very fun mission, Man. Thanks for sharing it.
- John
Entered mission door.
The producer has made great effort to prevent typing errors and grammatical mistakes.
Only thing I have a problem with is the opening scene has the captain basically stating, "...OMG Orion's...ready, aim, fire..."
It bothers me that the captain is stating "..fire.." here. It makes it seem the captain is impatient and too eager for combat. A starfleet captain would not behave in such a way.
Other than that, the opening scene is great. The combat is easy and entertaining, and it is not staged as a ambush.
Too many Foundry writers over use the ambush in their stories.
The next scene has you on the starbase.
Note: the producer here has chosen to use the player character's dialog in the buttons and not as a separate dialog box.
We have moved away from this practice because, we feel it creates a sense of urgency or pushes the character through the scenes. The technique is fine, but you may want to consider moving the player's dialog to its own dialog box. This makes it easy to find using the dialog tool in the foundry, should you need to correct it.
Also, if a player decides to look at the NPC chat tab to reference dialog already presented in the story, it will show up there. By writing it in the button, if the player accidently over clicks the button, they may miss an important line in the play.
I am not sure if it is unusual for there to be a warp capable species in the Sirius Sector block. Since the crews on Starfleet vessels are trained to deal with the unknown and unexpected, I would think this occurs more often then it does not.
Also, the actors that are staged on the set have the title "Nevarian ___" in their titles. Since we have not yet established these are Nevarian in the play, it may be wise to not have the name until introduced to the audience.
When you talk to Zenoth this is the part of the story where you have multiple dialog trees.
You may want to consider changing the task From "Find and speak to the Nevarian leader" to "Talk to Zenoth" since his dialog is the first time in the play that the name Nevarian is used.
When the dialog boxes come up there are no labels to help the audience understand who we are talking to.
I think there is a plot hole here.
The leader of the Nevarian just finishes telling the player that they are a peaceful culture and that they believe in non-hostile methods to maintain their peace. Then the Engineer officer suggest building a holding facility that violates that precedence.
That would be a violation of the Prime Directive and inappropriate for Starfleet Command. You may want to rewrite this scene here to use the player's ship to detain the prisoners to avoid violating the cultural laws here.
The next plot point to "Inform medic to get patients back to sickbay should have a scene that leads to this. In the play up to this point, we have not been directed or led to a task to motivate us to go see a medic. Missing a scene here.
You might want to consider adding a task to put out these fires. It is unusual for Starfleet officers to walk through a set and not extinguish the fires. Keep in mind to that in Star Trek Online, some players do walk in the game and some players run. DO not assume everyone plays the same way as you do.
The play should take into account the people who walk and the people who run. Also, this applies to space maps. Not every player uses full impulse power. We actually fly at 1/4 impulse and other various propulsion settings in the lore.
Remember, not every player is running around with a high fructose and caffeine addiction.
The next task "Seal off room from Nevarian civilians" needs a better lead into and set up. The way the play is now, it forces the player to guess at what to do next.
At this point where you beam in the first prisoner, there is a series of fires going on. You have had the player seal off the room. Won't the player die from asphyxiation do to carbon dioxide poisoning. Need to have the player extinguish the fires prior to all the dialog sequence.
Also, if these are electrical fires, how will the player cut power to the Class C fire if they sealed the room off?
The task "Get Answers"
I have a problem with this scene because you have been told by the host culture they do not like interrogations, but you erected a holding facility and you are now interrogating a prisoner.
Interrogating comes from the term Interrogative statement, which are statements used to ask questions. At this point of the story, you have asked the character to violate the law of the host culture and violate Federation law by violating the Prime Directive, and you are interrogating prisoners of war without proper counsel.
This is a huge plot hole in your play.
I chose to talk to the leader before proceeding.
Return to Zenoth
This is where the story kind of goes south for me.
We learn now that the culture that does not believe in prisons in fact held prisoners on another world or station because they did not obey their laws.
There is a problem here in that there is no formal treaty with this culture. The ship and crew here cannot violate the prime directive because we would be interfering in the development of that culture. The most that we could be in this case is arbitrators.
At this point of the play, we know there is two factions from the same culture. One seeks to maintain rule of law but are in a position to not be able to defend themselves from a revolution in their society.
The other faction from the same culture has revolted against the people in power or who write the laws for the polity.
The Federation cannot get involved here. It is forbidden. Especially since the law enforcement or legitimate government has expressed a desire to maintain secrecy or neutrality. We cannot be asked to violate their own laws.
The next part of the plot takes us to a new map or scene which is titled "Investigate Prison World."
Task is Scan Planet
The stage is a player created space map, which is really nice.
I flew from the zone in spot to the planet at 4/4 impulse (not full impulse power). I do not like to run.
In the asteroid field before you get to the planet is a Starfleet Galiant Class ship. I chose to "hail the ship."
And the vessel decides to cloak.
I am not sure the plot here works for me.
The Federation ship went into cloak when we hailed them. Would that not be considered a "hostile" act?
Why would a starfleet military commander that is probably a Vice Admiral just gloss over a hostile act?
The approach to the planet is cool. You may want to add more to the scene. A Starfleet vessel would have asked for a analysis of the planet.
14,000 species is good, but needs more detail about what type of planet is it. Also, the player would have notified Starfleet command by now for instructions on what to do and to report the ship's position. Starfleet ships do not operate in a one ship fleet.
Map change to ground map Prison World
Really nice map or set here. It is an original stage built by the player.
I walked to the first map point
First task is to Observe the City.
There is an Optional mission to Aid Civilians
Nice job on the side missions.
Although, the player kills all those gangs and helps the native people get their home back, it is kind of hokey that they say, "thank you," and we state, "...that's what we do..."
That makes it seem we are trying to coerce them into liking the Federation. That is not how the Federation works.
We would have had to get instructions from Starfleet command and they would have sent an ambassador to establish a diplomatic solution for these people after a treaty was signed.
At this point of the story, we do not understand how the gangs are there. We do not understand how the non-gangs are there. We do not understand any of the politics going on in the culture, but we have murdered 2 groups of civilians. Three groups if you count the ships in the previous scene we had destroyed.
Next task is to "Reach Complex containing human life sign"
We reached the Complex and are directed to Talk to Human.
You may not want to have the name of the NPC displayed on the Button to talk to him if we have not been introduced in the play yet.
This basically is the pointer scene in the play where you meet this engineer who has been lost for 12 years that Starfleet command never knew about until now.
This does not make sense. Twelve years is not enough time to form abnormal anomalies in a lifeform even having been exposed to radiation. Radiation is just heat. Perhaps in a lifeform not born yet, but for people already alive, they would not have changed. Changes in skin do to radiation like from cancer growths may occur.
I think that stating that "the Nevarians are too powerful..." is not necessary because, so far in the play we have destroyed every ship without any effort at all. And, the Foundry does not have super aliens in it.
I noticed many authors do that in the Foundry, which is unnecessary to do. Also, from a psychological point of view, who wants to play a story where you keep describing the main species is a super-powerful alien that cannot put out fires. And, an escort guarding a planet is not scary to me. I would decimate any escort out there.
Also, I am not feeling any suspense at this stage of the story. I find it hard to believe this guy has been here for 12 years and the Outlander has been in possession for 12 years of a alien species and Starfleet has not known about it.
Next task is to "Find and Speak to Rosgawth"
It is an okay dialog tree,but it is not very inspiring dialog.
There is no real empathy in the dialog.
Map change "Beam up Nevarian Crew"
New Task - Repair Klingon ship
I flew there at 4/4 speed and not Full Impulse Power.
New Task - Transport Nevarian crew to ship
New Task - Destroy Outlander
I typed this while in battle, and it was very easy. My health never dropped below 100 percent.
New Task - Get within transporter range
I did use full impulse power here because it was part of the plot. However, I slowed to 1/2 impulse on approach.
You need to make the footpath for the reach marker with a larger radius. It may be difficult for some players to fly over it to trigger the next task.
Map change - Nevarian Space Station Map 2
Task Take out Nevarian Guards
If you just walk through the map the first set of guards is taken out by the NPC fighters.
Combat against re-skinned Devidians was easy.
New Task - Disable stations sensor jam
New Task - Speak with Zenoth
I am not sure I like the dialog here.
It puts the player in a position to be condescending to the antagonist here.
I have a problem with the dialog the captain is using with the antagonist here. It comes across as an immature person or someone who has never dealt with diplomacy.
Captains are suppose to use wisdom in a situation like this. Even though the antagonist does not want to see what needs to be done, the captain representing the Federation should not be condescending to Zenoth.
Also, the Federation captain should not be passing judgement over what has happen here because the whole entire event took place outside of Federation law.
The story ends here.
I think overall the story is good or playable which I will give 1 star for that.
I think the stages are good and there is a nice balance of space, ground, and interior map environments. I think 1 more star is good here.
I think the use of selectable dialog in the story is good, but overused. In some parts of the play, it is not necessary for the plot of the story. If you overuse it in a story or play then it comes across as you are just trying to demonstrate you know how to use dialog trees on the Foundry, which drags the story down.
I will give 1 more star for this.
I think the story needs work. There is to many holes in the story that deal with Federation law, and how much a Federation ship can be involved here. It may only be necessary for a Federation ship to escape and seek help from Starfleet. But, it seems illogical for a Starfleet captain to operate independent of Starfleet Command in the story.
I am going to keep my rating at 3 stars for now, and I did donate 100 dil to your creative efforts. Feel free to contact me in game or on the Foundry chat channel at klytemnestra@klytemnestra.
I can sit down with you through Skype if you need any technical answers. In my fleet we use Skype to share our screens to walk through our stories and produce stories with multiple inputs.
Great review!
This is one of the things that makes me intimidated about doing foundry missions because as hard as it is for to admit, I'm not a very smart person and I'm not saying that as in "please feel bad for me!" or even just simply trying to defend my mission: I asked for feedback and I expected something like this and I wanted it. I'm very interested in telling stories but right now, I'm just absolutely terrible at it and I'm starting to realize how difficult it is to write something true to Trek. I play other people's foundry missions and read how technical the dialogue is and I have tremendous admiration for them because I don't think I could ever write something like that.
Before I continue, I just want you to know that the purpose of my response isn't to defend my mission, but just for further discussion on the creativity involved, because I dream of becoming as good of a writer as other great Foundry editors out there.
I was aware of a lot of things that you pointed out but I honestly had no clue how to handle it. There was a LOT of times writing that story where I was almost sweating like "How am I going to make this work!?" it was like I had no clue how to tell it without having to force myself to overlook plot holes.
The part that got to me (and even though I love Trek I'm not nearly as Trek savvy as most people here) is trying to develop the Nevarian's history. What was going to be the door? Why hasn't Starfleet discovered them before in a sector that has already been explored?
I grinned to myself reading the part of your review where you mentioned the prime directive, because I loved that you pointed that out because that was coursing through my mind as I was playing this mission. That was a very difficult thing for me to handle and I really had to force myself to overlook it because I couldn't figure out how else to get the core part of the story across (the whole message of oppression and other stuff).
Everything you said nailed it for me, the only thing I'd defend in your review is the part that it came off as "look at me, I know how to use dialogue trees!" which wasn't my intention, because I think anybody who fiddled with the Foundry for 5 minutes could figure out dialogues, in fact, it's one of the very few things I didn't have to look up a tutorial for. However, even though I wasn't trying to get technical with it, I can see why you would say that. Another thing I'd like to defend is how big the "evolved" Nevarians are made out to be and I think I'm going to have to tweak some dialogue. I really, really did not want them to be portrayed as "super powerful" I just wanted them to be portrayed as too powerful for what their species are used to and that the only reason the Outlander was taken over was because of an very unexpected attack. The only other thing I'd like to defend is Rosgawth's dialogue because that character did mean a lot to me and was inspired by people I know in real life who resorted to crime because they feel that is their place in society - Then again, maybe I'm just not good enough yet to write these characters effectively.
There's a lot of stuff in your review that I love and I will keep referring back to for the followup - A lot of things for me to think about. I'm also very anxious to hear what Hippiejon and the other guys on foundry roundtable will have to say about it.
Honestly though, I'm surprised you gave it 3 stars after everything you said - Because what you said is truth and I think it's going to help me (hopefully) become a better writer and story teller. After reading what you said I think it could have been told a lot better and maybe even have been good.
I give a short review of your mission at the beginning of the show, and honestly, if you have the patience to listen to us ramble, we end up talking about a good many of the things you are probably now thinking about.
The episode is up now.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=572421
I wish I were able to use stronger language on the forums.
HORSE PUCKEY !
Just because one persons opinion of the way you told your story is one thing, doesn't mean there aren't others who feel like they just experienced an episode of Trek with their character as the hero. You told your story just fine from my perspective.
Yes, it is difficult to write something "true" to Trek.
You managed it just fine.
Keep authoring.
Start learning the things the tool can do. Learn the tricks.
Most of all don't be discouraged by one persons opinion.
Take in all your feedback, and grow from it.
That's how we become better writers.
Peace
- John
I have found actually writing the screenplay out using a screenplay app and using Microsoft Word to be the best thing. Properly formatted, a screenplay will represent about 1 minute running time per page.
Also, a screenplay will allow you as a writer to focus on dialog.
I usually write a back story for NPC's that I feature and I workout the political system that will be involved in the story. Keep in mind, this did not occur in a flash of light. It has taken me about 2 years of using the Foundry to kind get into producing a well crafted story. And even then I still make mistakes.
One good thing about the Foundry is many of the writers/producers are very kind. Also, they understand exactly about what you described in your response to my analysis.
I use dice rolling in my stories. It took me a long time to finally have a good matrix to simulate dice rolling in a role play story. I am currently working on a emotion and motivation matrix to add to my dialog trees.
Best advice that I can give is to "keep it simple."
In my reviews, I like to give a detail analysis from a producer's perspective. Does not mean it is the best perspective, it just means it is one perspective.:)
Star Trek is fun to write for and hard to write for. In my current plays, I have pretty much used Star Trek Online Wiki as my primary source of in game lore. If that is not good enough, I go to Memory Alpha. And if that is not enough, I go to the actual episodes from all the different series and movies.
In our current stories we have been trying to put more science in the story using the dialog trees. Which is really hard to do. I had to find consultants to interview about ideas and spend many hours at the library researching physics, chemistry, astronomy, and quantum physics.
I study psychology and anthropology as my major.
I think the review system in the game is really designed or should be used to help inexperienced and experienced writers/producers.
Also, have fun.
Thank you.
Honestly, I actually regretted posting what I did to his reponse (but didn't have a chance to edit), I'm not taking back what I said as far as it being a great review and helped me and did have me thinking about things, but it was late at night when I responded and I think I should have dwelled a little more on his review before just up and posting. I reread my response and just thought "Ew, I sound very discouraged" and that totally wasn't the case.
I think you're absolutely right though, people have different expectations out of what makes a good mission and even if I could write something more...Technical? I guess is the word I'm looking for, it's not what I'd like to do. I wanted to tell a story, I wanted to express myself through Star Trek, and I obviously accomplished that if you enjoyed my mission and shared it on your podcast.
There's more to getting feedback than just simply not getting butt hurt, and your post kind of slapped me in the face with that fact and I thank you for that sir.
That's funny you mention that because the story was originally an idea I had for an sci-fi film and I wrote it in the form of a script (the original version evolved around Rosgawth though, the ending was vastly different too but would have been really difficult to convert to the Foundry) . I though it made for a good idea as a Trek story which is why I decided to make it into a Foundry mission.
This followup I'm doing I am spending a lot more time in the script, though I'm doing it in a weird way, but I'm doing it in a way where I can make every scene as engaging as possible.
Overall, I actually had a lot of fun making this mission and I think I may even revisit it some time in the future, but for now I feel that I said what I needed to say with it. Right now I have a lot more to tell about the Nevarians though and where they're going, so I'm focusing on that while I have the creative fire for it. It was a huge learning experience doing the first one and I have a lot of confidence in this followup.