test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Dual Cannons vs. Dual Heavy Cannons
webdeath
Member Posts: 1,570 Arc User
After thinking on this for quite some time.. I've begun to wonder, do Dual cannons and Dual Heavy Cannons REALLY have the same "DPS" as they list in their Tool tips?
Obviously we know from experience that the Dual Heavy Cannons out shine Dual Cannons because:
1: Their Damage is up front and not over time.
2: The Weapon power drain effects Dual Cannons more because of how many shots are fired compared to Dual Heavy Cannons.
So, this makes me wonder, do they still do the same DPS? And if not, perhaps that is something that could be labeled in the Bug area since Dual Cannons are not performing as they should?
As most of you know, I'm not a numbers and data gatherer. It's just not my specialty. How ever if some one else, dev or other wise, wanted to gather and show that data, it might prove useful to find out if there really is something wrong with Dual Heavy Cannons vs. Dual Cannons, perhaps even leading to a way to make them more viable then they obviously are now..
Obviously we know from experience that the Dual Heavy Cannons out shine Dual Cannons because:
1: Their Damage is up front and not over time.
2: The Weapon power drain effects Dual Cannons more because of how many shots are fired compared to Dual Heavy Cannons.
So, this makes me wonder, do they still do the same DPS? And if not, perhaps that is something that could be labeled in the Bug area since Dual Cannons are not performing as they should?
As most of you know, I'm not a numbers and data gatherer. It's just not my specialty. How ever if some one else, dev or other wise, wanted to gather and show that data, it might prove useful to find out if there really is something wrong with Dual Heavy Cannons vs. Dual Cannons, perhaps even leading to a way to make them more viable then they obviously are now..
You think that your beta test was bad?
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Post edited by webdeath on
0
Comments
Actually their is a single occasion where DHCs are outperformed by DCs.
DEM active with Nadion Inversion active.
But yeah DCs could be removed tomorrow and I wouldn't even notice.
Install your Cutting beam
Install your regular DC...
And be amazed at how they shred stuff up.
Thanks to mini nadion... the dual cannons are more then usable.
They pair well with glider, dem and honestly even the proc rate is pretty crazy... the power issues that made them suck before can be removed now with gear.
Interesting. Another avenue for me to test..... If your in game later, i'll quiz you more about this.
Right and DC cycle twice as fast... its why DHC get the 10% crtd bonus... because DC get twice the proc rate.
OR perhaps they don't its hard to understand anything happening with the stupid weapons power returns these days.
If that is how it is supposed to work (that the proc is the same) then something is way off cause they indeed proc twice as often... I have had as many as 4 Mini Nadion procs stacked up on the Andorian ship with 5 dc.
Did you have a Cutting beam on out of curiosity ?
DC drain less but lack the 10% severity whereas the DHC have the 10% crit severity but drain 12.
Some procs from what I've seen are per shot so DCs will win in that regard having twice as many chances to score a successful hit and thus trigger the proc. By definition then all the procs in your tooltip for a given weapon should be 'per volley' but procs like the targeting assault from the reputation system are per hit. Didn't write the maths down but I did perform the tests but have been using DC for some time though may go back to DHC just to compare actual combat data.
The main reason people have been pro DHC for a long time... is simply that the more dc you put on the faster your dmg drops of due to the much higher power usage.
My point is now with things like the DEM doff (more for battle cruisers and lockbox cruisers)... and the Cutting beam 2 piece omega proc.... you can offset most of that handicap in power usage. Thus gaining double to proc rate... you still won't see the 10k+ crits... but if you get a string you will get a ton of 4-6k crits off the DC... I find them very viable now. Previous to the items... and if you are not running the cutting beam they are still terrible.
Cutting beam wont help as it does not strip shields, and he stated he couldnt even strip the shield facings,,cutting beam is for hull damage.
Although you are correct the wep amplifier proc will help a bit.
I believe that is the Maestro's main point. The kinetic damage is almost a total side issue to the two piece proc.
The borg weapons set 2 piece provides a 2.5% chance (on all weapons fired) to proc
+1000 power drain resist and +10 weapon power
So um ya it makes a massive difference.
I would've preferred a 5th fore weapon on it for sure since my build could handle a dual beam or 5th dhc. The weapon's proc is per cycle, but Isis doff and like mentioned subvert targeting from tier 4 rom rep is on per hit. I think it would be nice to check if dual cannons are actually worth something with this over capping power build.
I do agree how ever that they are VERY similar to the way Dual Beam banks work (Since my other build I run on my engi is 4 DBB + Wing Cannons) But I'm starting to see what is being talked about. And I have been able to cut down shields regularly. Granted not with the Power that a Tac + DHCs do it.
I can also see how Dual Cannons can make it hard on Tac team to keep the shields up because of the constant assault pelting them and draining them down.
This makes me want to test them with my Tac and change out his 5 Plasma DHCs for 5 Plasma Dual Cannons with his Tet glider. (Yes he has a cutting beam, but no he doesn't have the DEM doff)
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
Power can (once again) be overcapped (as you can see by boosting your weapons power with consoles etc. and dropping the slider down to 90 or whatever) - this 'surplus' power is used by weapons during their firing cycles - you'll never get more DPS than 125 power gives you, but if you have that buffer, all subsequent weapons fire after the first shot will suffer less drain penalties.
This is particularly useful for Beam Arrays since they have horrific power drain.
for what, the 2 piece bonus? its basically redundant in the face of overcaping, it was tested on a 2 AtB vet ship, it had all the weapons power it needed. the problem was the damage is not spike, and will not shatter a facing before someone has time to react. DC damage will be immediately noticed, and TSS with manual distribution will almost always be enough to keep that facing from ever falling, before the whole rest of the guys shields have been shot to nothing. thats the problem with all non DHC damage.
and then someone gives your target ST3, and undoes everything you did.
i am considering something thought, 1 torp, 2 DHC, 1 DC. maybe that would still be enough to kill a facing, and the DC to keep that sliver from blocking the incoming torp. might give that a shot later.
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
That's for those that may be thinking the proc rate is different. The second test isn't all that interesting as it really just shows autofire. They serve two very different purposes in the game, this is not how they are used in the game, so comparing them is sorta special, just not useful.
If you're in a ship designed to land damage on a hull, you use dc's and dem. If you're in a ship designed to carry DHC's and you can also carry CRF, then you do that.
And anyone that's interested in saying "well things like tet glider are per hit"..yes. we know. here's a cookie.
I find mixing and matchng simply messes up your timings which reduces dps.
The point of the DC + cutting beam spam... is to multi proc the nadion & +10 weapon power proc.
In my testing there is no amount of overcapping that saves DCs or any other cannons for that matter... if they are somehow now allowing cannons to overcap over +135 its news to me.
Trust me the Cutting beam makes all the difference as the DC will proc it all over the place.
One hit might not be spike... but 8 per volley instead of 4... makes for some insane crit runs. If you choose the right type of weapons the spike basicly makes it self. I have found anything with the polaron proc to work best for that... a mulit proc seems to make for nasty chains of 5-10 crits in a row. They might be 5-6k instead of 10... I find they will rack up 30-50k in dmg in a very short order.
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
Your also running your engi. (if I'm not mistaken)
I think for the DC to have the tipping point spike wise... you might almost need the tac buffs.
I honestly haven't tested DC out on anything other then tacs. I might have to put one of my sci or engi in a scort to test the theory.
so i use these things with DHCs, that will give less hits from DEM and glider, but at that point its just extra damage per shot, wile at its core its the spike from the DHCs that do the main work. its still noticeable, the DEM and glider effect though, its still very worth using. both are very energy dependent, so the more efficient DHC power usage benefits their damage as well. infant, unless you over cap, DC and DHC glider and DEM damage would likely be the same, just from how your energy levels fluctuate more with DCs.
No, this was on my Tactical officer with 5 Plasma DC's..
I'm also going to test out 5 Phased Tetryon DC's + Plasma Flow Capacitor consoles. Just to laugh at the Idea that I'm doing about.. 6 Procs.. (Also noticed the 2 Piece Romulan Set buffs the damage in the tool tip of the plasma proc)
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku