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Hull repair bonus granted by leadership unaffected by combat status and crew
frtoaster
Member Posts: 3,352 Arc User
Currently, the bonus to hull repair rate granted by the leadership trait is uneffected by combat status and crew. I'm not sure if this behavior is intended or if it is a bug. If it is intended, then the devs should reconsider whether stackable passives should be so strong. Consider the following numbers:
Ship Class: Escort
Starship Hull Repair: 99
Hull Repair Rate (out of combat, 100% crew, 0 humans): 99.5%/min
Hull Repair Rate (in combat, 0% crew, 5 humans): 103.6%/min
This means that an escort with no humans, out of combat and at 100% crew, will have a lower hull repair rate than an escort with 5 humans, in combat and at 0% crew.
Another way of evaluating the strength of the leadership trait is to compare it against boff abilities. Consider the following:
Ship: Assault Cruiser
Starship Hull Repair: 99
Structural Integrity: 99
Starship Weapons Training: 129
Starship Energy Weapons: 99
Starship Particle Generators: 0
Consoles: No plasma consoles of any kind
Auxiliary Power: 114
Hull: 50701
Hazard Emitters I (heal over time): 11808.1 HP over 15 sec (787.2 HP/sec)
Eject Warp Plasma III (damage over time): 306.1 HP/sec
Hull Repair Rate (in combat, 0% crew, 5 humans): 149.3%/min (1261.6 HP/sec)
This means that stacking human boffs can be potentially stronger than Hazard Emitters I and Eject Warp Plasma III.
Some other things to consider:
1. The hull repair bonus of 35%/min granted by the Mk XI Borg set is also unaffected combat status and crew. Is this intended?
2. I have not tested the Omega reputation passive "Hull-Repairing Nanites". It may also be unaffected by combat status and crew. Is this passive working as intended?
3. The hull repair bonus granted by leadership is modified by ship class and the skill "Starship Hull Repair". Is this intended?
4. How often hull regeneration ticks in combat depends on bonuses from passives and equipment. (It is difficult to tell whether this is also true out of combat, because hull regeneration ticks too fast out of combat.) I've observed tick rates ranging from once per second to once every 7 seconds. Is this behavior intended?
5. If you have no bonuses from equipment or doffs, then the UI reports a crew recovery rate of 50%/min out of combat and 5%/min in combat. It is not clear whether these rates refer to alive crew or able crew. As far as I can tell, they apply to neither. From my observations, these are the crew recovery rates regardless of ship:
Able Crew (in combat): ~60 crew/min
Able Crew (out of combat): ~500 crew/min
Alive Crew (in combat): never recovers during combat
Alive Crew (out of combat): ~100%/min
Note: The crew recovery rates above are just rough estimates.
For a detailed analysis of hull repair rates, please see the following post:
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=8340431&postcount=3
Ship Class: Escort
Starship Hull Repair: 99
Hull Repair Rate (out of combat, 100% crew, 0 humans): 99.5%/min
Hull Repair Rate (in combat, 0% crew, 5 humans): 103.6%/min
This means that an escort with no humans, out of combat and at 100% crew, will have a lower hull repair rate than an escort with 5 humans, in combat and at 0% crew.
Another way of evaluating the strength of the leadership trait is to compare it against boff abilities. Consider the following:
Ship: Assault Cruiser
Starship Hull Repair: 99
Structural Integrity: 99
Starship Weapons Training: 129
Starship Energy Weapons: 99
Starship Particle Generators: 0
Consoles: No plasma consoles of any kind
Auxiliary Power: 114
Hull: 50701
Hazard Emitters I (heal over time): 11808.1 HP over 15 sec (787.2 HP/sec)
Eject Warp Plasma III (damage over time): 306.1 HP/sec
Hull Repair Rate (in combat, 0% crew, 5 humans): 149.3%/min (1261.6 HP/sec)
This means that stacking human boffs can be potentially stronger than Hazard Emitters I and Eject Warp Plasma III.
Some other things to consider:
1. The hull repair bonus of 35%/min granted by the Mk XI Borg set is also unaffected combat status and crew. Is this intended?
2. I have not tested the Omega reputation passive "Hull-Repairing Nanites". It may also be unaffected by combat status and crew. Is this passive working as intended?
3. The hull repair bonus granted by leadership is modified by ship class and the skill "Starship Hull Repair". Is this intended?
4. How often hull regeneration ticks in combat depends on bonuses from passives and equipment. (It is difficult to tell whether this is also true out of combat, because hull regeneration ticks too fast out of combat.) I've observed tick rates ranging from once per second to once every 7 seconds. Is this behavior intended?
5. If you have no bonuses from equipment or doffs, then the UI reports a crew recovery rate of 50%/min out of combat and 5%/min in combat. It is not clear whether these rates refer to alive crew or able crew. As far as I can tell, they apply to neither. From my observations, these are the crew recovery rates regardless of ship:
Able Crew (in combat): ~60 crew/min
Able Crew (out of combat): ~500 crew/min
Alive Crew (in combat): never recovers during combat
Alive Crew (out of combat): ~100%/min
Note: The crew recovery rates above are just rough estimates.
For a detailed analysis of hull repair rates, please see the following post:
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=8340431&postcount=3
Waiting for a programmer ...
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However if you can't keep your crew full, which is hard to do (I had to drop the biowhatsit due to space constraints) it's hard to keep up that 150-200% repair rate 4-5 human BOffs will give you.
500 years in the future and we still look like schmucks when getting our ID photos taken...
Please read carefully. I posted the hull repair rate for an escort with 5 humans at 0% crew. In the much longer post I linked above, you can see data that shows the bonus due to the leadership trait is unaffected by crew.
That data is wrong then. At 0 crew my in combat repair rate is closer to 24%. That number might be slightly off - I don't have time to check right now, but the hull repair rate is affected by crew.
500 years in the future and we still look like schmucks when getting our ID photos taken...
You should really check again. Hull repair rate is affected by crew. The bonus to hull repair rate due to the leadership trait is unaffected by crew. In an escort with 5 humans at 0% crew, you should not see a hull repair rate of 24%/min while in combat. That number is closer to what you would see in a cruiser with 0 humans at 100% crew in combat.
Yes, they are letting the Romulan crit passive stack, but they nerfed it. I'm not saying the leadership trait shouldn't stack, but I question whether it should be so strong if it's stackable. The bonus from leadership isn't penalized by combat status and crew the way "normal" sources of hull repair rate are.
The numbers I gave were just for illustration. You can push the hull repair rate higher if you wanted to: stack humans with the Borg 2-piece bonus, the Omega reputation passive "Hull-Repairing Nanites", the tech trait, and SIF generators. Note that the bonus from leadership is modified by skill in "Starship Hull Repair" and the base hull repair rate of the ship. You would get a larger bonus in a cruiser or a science vessel than you would in an escort.
Actually Sci-ships have nearly the same hull as a escort. Hull-repairing nanites are inferior to the other skillchoice, and the Sif-Generators are garbage.
That aside, its still not really a gamebreaker. The 2-set-bonus of the borg-set is useful indeed, and I use it of course, but the new leadership doesnt break anything. It scales pretty well with the crew (my cruiser has around 90%without crew), and that only works with the adapted maco 2-piece-bonus.
I have a few human officers and borg-set and elite fleet shield on my newest tac toon, well, if it agros a tactical cube or a gate, it should still not be in firing range for too long, because their damage output still outlevels the hullrepair.
For pvp: well, focus fire does pretty much the same thing.
I agree, it's pretty strong with 5 humans and a mostly alive crew... outside of STFs. But there's a reason no one has made a major fuss about it - it's not game breaking because no one ever benefits fully from it due to crew requirements. It makes 1v1 harder but not many people bother with 1v1 PvP combat except to test things. Now, cryptic can go and fix it if it's not doing what they intended, but it's just going to mean the leadership space trait is useless again. At the end of the day you must accept this is a game, and that it's not totally fair to escorts to be forced to a single weak heal more or less when no one bothers to heal them in most instances. I just deleted several paragraphs explaining why the current state of the game does not work for balance. I'll save it for another day and thread. But escorts should not have all this DPS with the trade off being poor survivability. ENG should not be overpowered in defensive abilities. Scis should not be overpowered in debuff abilities. It all just wrecks game balance and it has ALOT to do with those BOFF slot restrictions on ships.
I'll be fine with adjustments so long as crew stop dying so easily so that leadership may still be of some value for the future. It is very much overpowered when in full effect. It's been very rare to see it happen but I've seen it so I know it exists. But crew dying so easily is overpowered so to speak, too. Crew mechanics must be worked on if leadership is to be worked on.
What I'm saying is that the bonus from leadership does not obey the normal rules for scaling hull repair rate during combat, and I believe that is not intended.
The leadership bonus to hull repair rate is not affected by crew. Yes, your hull repair rate is affected by crew, but not the part you get from leadership.
I have posted my testing results here:
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=8340431&postcount=3
If you disagree with my testing method or results, then please explain where.
That's a different thread?
Anyways, this thread should probably be placed in the proper forum:
Bridge Officers and BOFF Powers
And while that's happening, I think you should test some more.
If you have no humans on your ship (and no other bonuses such the Borg set), this is what you will see.
1. When you enter combat with 100% crew, your hull repair rate will be cut by 1/6.
2. Your hull repair rate will also decrease as you lose crew, though the curve is not linear.
If you have humans on your ship, this is what you will see.
1. Your hull repair rate will still decrease when you enter combat. However, it will not be cut by 1/6. The part that you get from your ship class and skill "Starship Hull Repair" alone will be cut by 1/6. The part that you get from leadership remains unchanged.
2. As you lose crew, your hull repair rate will still decrease. However, this decrease applies only to the part you get from your ship class and skill "Starship Hull Repair" alone. The part that get from leadership will remain unchanged.
The bonus you get from the 2 pieces of Borg set is similar in that it is not affected by combat status and crew.
Yes, that's a different thread, where I explain the mechanics of hull repair rate in detail. You tell me to test more, but you don't explain what you think is wrong with my testing.
You should test more because I don't think your results are accurate. You should also probably discuss this in the proper thread:
In the right forum.
I'm fairly certain the results are accurate. If you feel my results are wrong, then please point out the error in my methods or provide your own data.
Joined - 9/2011
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You're reading it all wrong. Hull repair is based on the base percentage of hull repair unique to the class, so the actual rate of repair is a lot less.
At 103%, the in-combat repair rate of an escort in combat with 0 crew is 1.03*16.6% = 17.098%. Assuming that the player has 99 SIF skill, HP is boosted by 50% and therefore the repair rate drops to 66% effectiveness (11.28%). It takes me about 9 seconds to repair to full assuming I'm in combat and no one is shooting at me. This is compared to the same escort in combat with 100 crew with 22.5% hull repair rate.
Tested effectiveness of being under fire from being shot at by another player using plasma, another using Q-torps, and in instances where I'm battling a tac cube, none of them ever see me repair back to full using the base crew repair rate. It is always overwhelmed and requires a HE1 to achieve bleedthrough damage parity while shields are up. When the shields drop, 9 seconds is a heck lot of time, and a tac-boosted cruiser can BO2 right through that thin bare hull.
My guess is, this is how the devs intend to fix crew, improve hull tanking while giving Human boffs something to do. By increasing the hull repair bonus, you get improved hull tanking, something STO lacks. By giving 50% to crew, you make it necessary to kill crew so that you can deny a large part of that regen. By locking in 50% regen rate to the bonus, you give Human boffs a better reason to exist outside of reducing the effectiveness of VM (which needed to before this fix happened, anyway.)
Its working as intended and should be left as it is.
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I don't understand how you are deriving your numbers. Can you explain where they are coming from? I'm pretty sure I'm not reading the number wrong. Please see my longer post here:
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=8340431&postcount=3
Please note that the normal mechanic that reduces hull repair rate according to combat status and crew applies does not apply to the bonus you get from leadership.