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Jem'hadar fighters are pretty feeble. Can we get an upgrade?
momaw
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
For clarity: This is about the "Jem'hadar fighter" hangar pet for the Jem'hadar dreadnaught, not the "Jem'hadar attack sihp" hangar pet.
Jem fighters are equipped with a polaron pulse cannon and they can use Directed Energy Modulation. In a typical mission, a hangar of Jem fighters launching as quickly as possible to replace combat losses managed to inflict an average 377 damage per second with their pulse cannons. The separate damage from their DEM amounted to just under 50 damage per second.
Now, it's interesting to note that the 377 DPS from their pulse cannon is higher than To'duj fighters manage with theirs. Significantly higher. This is not due to play style or team buffing: the base magnitude of the Jem fighter cannon is much higher.
Unfortunately it's not enough. Even plain To'duj fighters can put out between 2 and 3 times more damage with their photon torpedo launchers in addition to their weaker pulse cannon.
The 50 damage per second from DEM is basically negligible and easily countered by the target's automatic self-healing. This is because DEM adds a small amount of damage to each projectile (about 20 damage, in the Jem fighter's case) and is really only practical with a high rate of fire given by Cannon: Rapid Fire.
Conclusion:
The unique Jem'hadar fighters, only available by buying a very expensive ship, are significantly weaker than the nearly-free To'duj/Peregrine fighters available to every carrier. They are possibly the weakest combat pets in the game.
Recommendation:
Ditch the pulse cannon. Fighters that have pulse cannons also have torpedo launchers, which do the bulk of their damage. In this regard the pulse cannon can be considered a secondary weapon, not a primary. Also remove Directed Energy Modulation. Having this ability at a level where it will do meaningful damage in PVE has the potential to badly skew PVP gameplay.
Jem'hadar fighter
Polaron single cannon
Cannon: Rapid Fire 1
Quantum torpedo launcher
Jem'hadar fighter
Polaron single cannon
Polaron turret
Cannon: Rapid Fire 2
Quantum torpedo launcher
Jem fighters are equipped with a polaron pulse cannon and they can use Directed Energy Modulation. In a typical mission, a hangar of Jem fighters launching as quickly as possible to replace combat losses managed to inflict an average 377 damage per second with their pulse cannons. The separate damage from their DEM amounted to just under 50 damage per second.
Now, it's interesting to note that the 377 DPS from their pulse cannon is higher than To'duj fighters manage with theirs. Significantly higher. This is not due to play style or team buffing: the base magnitude of the Jem fighter cannon is much higher.
Unfortunately it's not enough. Even plain To'duj fighters can put out between 2 and 3 times more damage with their photon torpedo launchers in addition to their weaker pulse cannon.
The 50 damage per second from DEM is basically negligible and easily countered by the target's automatic self-healing. This is because DEM adds a small amount of damage to each projectile (about 20 damage, in the Jem fighter's case) and is really only practical with a high rate of fire given by Cannon: Rapid Fire.
Conclusion:
The unique Jem'hadar fighters, only available by buying a very expensive ship, are significantly weaker than the nearly-free To'duj/Peregrine fighters available to every carrier. They are possibly the weakest combat pets in the game.
Recommendation:
Ditch the pulse cannon. Fighters that have pulse cannons also have torpedo launchers, which do the bulk of their damage. In this regard the pulse cannon can be considered a secondary weapon, not a primary. Also remove Directed Energy Modulation. Having this ability at a level where it will do meaningful damage in PVE has the potential to badly skew PVP gameplay.
Jem'hadar fighter
Polaron single cannon
Cannon: Rapid Fire 1
Quantum torpedo launcher
Jem'hadar fighter
Polaron single cannon
Polaron turret
Cannon: Rapid Fire 2
Quantum torpedo launcher
Post edited by momaw on
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They were that good :P
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Not quite 100% true about the pulse cannons, the stalkers have only pulse cannons but they also have a whole bag of debuff tricks.
I do agree though that the fighters do look pretty weak and that DEM was a very odd choice for a ability.
But I think it would be cool if they made a fighter than can do some nice damage with energy weapons instead of being like every other fighter and sticking a torp on it.
Maybe throw a beam on it and beam overload (not sure is a dbb with bo would be op on a fighter but probably could be)
If it makes you feel any better, the Wing Cannon Platform Pets from the Kumari class are actually worse.
They actually do less damage than you describe, only live for about 10 to 20s maximum, have a 180s cooldown and take up an entire console slot.
So the JH Fighters aren't the weakest, rejoice!
I find it odd how they take this more seriously than the overwhelming demand to have the JHAS pet be available for all owners of the Jem dreadnought When that one has like 35 pages of posts. Although if they do buff the fighters then I might forget about that.
That thread is a handful of people repeating themselves for 35 pages with no better argument than "I want it." I'm also pretty sure archoncryptic isn't in charge of that sort of decision.
Thank you Mr. Archoncryptic sir
Good point.
The KDF and fed fighter are also weak. This may not be as much an issue with Heavy es ort carriers but more traditional carriers whom are suppossed to rely on pets for a portion of thier DPS output do.
R.I.P
Good to hear. Tho i am wondering which pets you will be looking at in particular. The default pets when u get them ships or the dilithium store bought adv dominion fighters.
Also when you eventually get to the potential buffing. May i ask you to pop back and let us know some specifics and when you get near a time frame for them to go in a patch to maybe let us know (optional of course).
As dominion fighters i would absolutely love it if they do kamikaze attacks when there like 10% health. They are jemhdar after all.
Imo a adv jem fighter should look a bit like:
Dual cannon using them hybrid dominion weapons of pol/tet or whatever.
CRFire 1
Quantum or some sort of bluish torp as they used in the shows.
GDF (in my dreams) lol. or Kamakase runs.
This includes elite advanced scorpion fighters. not even in NORMAL mode pve. Hanger pets could definately use a boost.
I've run carriers pretty heavily, and I find basic To'duj/Peregrine fighters to be adequate. They don't do so well with shields but their torpedo spam is pretty crazy.
The advanced versions however are in need of a performance boost since last I checked they were [strike]an expensive downgrade[/strike] dead even with the cheap ones.
Updated! Advanced To'duj are doing the same amount of damage as To'duj, to within single digits of mission DPS output. Their torpedoes do less, but they manage to flail away with their cannons just enough to make up the difference. Maybe they really did do something to pet AI in that patch? So for 30K dilithium you get To'duj that shoot blue torps insteads of red ones, basically
I would be happy to take part in a concerted effort to evaluate and rebalance hangar pets, but I suspect Cryptic has ways they can farm the data if they want it.
There are only two states for a ship with 5K hitpoints, no armor, and negligible shields:
1.) Full health
2.) Expanding debris cloud
Also i guess kk wouldnt do much tho if it had maybe a warp core explosion that was buffed when it hit and blew that might be nice way to deal with that.
Oh, I'm sure the Jem fighters would get to use Ramming Speed occasionally. And giving them that ability would certainly be consistent with both canon and the NPC Jem'Hadar fighters.
Carrier pets are pretty fragile, but they survive the darndest things sometimes.
I'll admit, it's been severa months since I've used my Advanced Peregrines, which are effectively identical to the Advanced To'Duj in terms of armament, but at the time they were noticeably better than the basic Peregrines. Which makes me a bit worried that they're now effectively trash. Have you tested the Advanced Peregrines to see if they have the same problem? (Assuming you have a hangar equipped ship on a Federation character).
CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
Would you also look into Tholian widow fighters (almost no dps), Toduj fighters (very little energy damage and weak), siphon drones (they are too slow) and elite scorpions fighters too (energy damage is almost non existent), if you intend to check that? Unless you want some pay to win into the game. :rolleyes:
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
i'm sorry?
b'rotlh and elite scorpion pets parse 3.9k-4.5k dps on their own. b'rotlh average crit 20k+ quantum torps with highs in the 40's. they are tough as nails. alone in a vo'quv with the only rep gear i have being the cutting beam and borg console i can drop two 3 nanite gens and the subsequent cube all by myself in kase before the 3rd set of probes comes through.
if you have not used them, don't talk about them.
if you were talking about PVP, then preface your post by saying PVP.
Gods no! Keep him away from our elite scorpions! They are so beautiful exactly the way they are! :eek: