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Forum Tangent: Stop Calling People Elitist
commadorebob
Member Posts: 1,223 Arc User
There appears to be this trend here of people calling other people 'Elitist.' I have a problem with this trend for a number of reasons but here are the main issues:
Sticks and Stones
On the first issue, one of the quickest ways to get people on the defensive and not even care about your opinion is to call them names. Whether it be liar, fanboy, troll, or elitist, all you are doing is putting a name to someone purely because you disagree with them. This is not constructive.
By calling someone a name, you are admitting that you have no desire to have a meaningful conversation. Everything that person may say in response will be seen through that filter. Oh, he is only defending it because he's a fanboy. No, he could have a great point but you've completely missed it because you've already decided to not listen.
At the same time, by calling someone an elitist, they will not listen to anything you say. You have put yourself behind that same filter.
Can you use it in a sentence, please?
The main issue I have with people throwing the word 'Elitist' around is you are using it incorrectly! Here is the definition of "Elitism" according to Bing:
In one area where the word is being thrown around is on the subject of the Foundry (and this is the subject I will discuss). If there was an elitist group of Foundry authors, we wouldn't have the problems with the Foundry that we do! And Elitist group of Foundry authors would be using their power to get Cryptic to make the changes we've been begging for since launch (instead of just stopping using it like myself).
If Foundry authors did have that kind of control, our missions would always be listed while any non-elite authors would never see the light of day. Instead, everyone gets their fair shake. Every single one of the highlighted authors had to start from the bottom and getting your mission highlighted is not a fast track to having it done again (in fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Cryptic has an unwritten rule about highlighting the same author twice).
Now elitism does exist in the real world. I commented on twitter that the State of the Union should just rename itself the Harvard/Yale University Reunion because most politicians are all from the same small group. It is almost incestuous how few families actually have control. In 2008, we came close to having just two families (Bush and Clinton) control the executive for over 20 years! That is elitism.
There is no such elitism here in STO. You get what you work for, but then there is no power that comes with it. All of the bloggers that went to Las Vegas for the dev meet-up went on their own dime. While Cryptic opened the door for them to have access, they still had to do everything themselves.
Even those of us that have been to Cryptic don't get special privileges. If we did that name to the left would be purple and not blue. Any items I give away on my show I have to earn myself in order to give them away. No one is given anything so there is no preferential treatment.
What do we call it then?
I know there is a schism within the Foundry community about how it should be used. The Foundry is an open tool to be used by anyone and other than exploits there should be no pecking order when it comes to the quality of the content. A two minute walk in Romulan Zoo has just as must right to be listed as the half-hour mission Hollow Justice or the multi-mission arc Trembler. (I used my own missions to show I'm not above nor beneath either type of mission).
What one author would call an engaging story, another may call a bore-fest. What one author would call a fight to the death, another may call a grinder. It is all about our particular tastes. That doesn't make one opinion better than the other.
But let's be honest and call this for what it really is. This is nothing more than disappointment over the idea that FMs are no longer going to be rewarded. And while Cryptic said the FMs were always scheduled to be removed, I believe it was because people were building exploits using the Foundry.
One-click finish missions is not content, it is a cheat. A grinder serves a purpose. A story is just that. A one-click finish is a shortcut to rewards. That that does a disservice to the reward and the Foundry.
So the term 'elitism' was thrown around because people think the dedicated Foundry authors are just trying to control things. That is not the case.
Could there be a slight sense of entitlement? Sure. But entitlement by its very definition means you are entitled to something. I'm entitled to my paycheck because I earned it. Foundry authors who work days building a mission should be recognized for their work and ranking down their missions solely because it takes longer than 10-seconds to complete does get in the way of that.
Conclusion
So stop calling people elitist. It is just mean spirited and it is the wrong term anyway. There are issues with this game but I can promise there is no all-powerful group of players who control things. Only the devs controls what happens in this game.
If anything, perhaps the dustup involving the FM removal will serve a purpose. It shows the devs there is a dedicated user base and the Foundry needs fixing. As for the FMs themselves, they have already fixed it on Tribble and that change will most likely hit Holodeck soon (if it hasn't already, I don't make a habit of reading every change log).
So again, stop calling people elitist. All you are doing is dumbing down the term to the point where it won't have the proper effect when actually used correctly. People used to take the term "troll" very seriously. Now, I just assume that the accusing party just disagrees with a statement.
TL;DR Version
Just read the damn title.
- It is just mean spirited name calling (which is against forum rules).
- It is not the correct term or is not being used correctly.
Sticks and Stones
On the first issue, one of the quickest ways to get people on the defensive and not even care about your opinion is to call them names. Whether it be liar, fanboy, troll, or elitist, all you are doing is putting a name to someone purely because you disagree with them. This is not constructive.
By calling someone a name, you are admitting that you have no desire to have a meaningful conversation. Everything that person may say in response will be seen through that filter. Oh, he is only defending it because he's a fanboy. No, he could have a great point but you've completely missed it because you've already decided to not listen.
At the same time, by calling someone an elitist, they will not listen to anything you say. You have put yourself behind that same filter.
Can you use it in a sentence, please?
The main issue I have with people throwing the word 'Elitist' around is you are using it incorrectly! Here is the definition of "Elitism" according to Bing:
Why do these not apply? Because if you think there is a secret cabal of players who determine the direction of this game, you are sorely mistaken.
- belief in concept of superiority: the belief that some people or things are inherently superior to others and deserve preeminence, preferential treatment, or higher rewards because of their superiority
- belief in control by small group: the belief that government or control should be in the hands of a small group of privileged, wealthy, or intelligent people, or the active promotion of such a system
- control by small group: government or control by a small, specially qualified, or privileged group
In one area where the word is being thrown around is on the subject of the Foundry (and this is the subject I will discuss). If there was an elitist group of Foundry authors, we wouldn't have the problems with the Foundry that we do! And Elitist group of Foundry authors would be using their power to get Cryptic to make the changes we've been begging for since launch (instead of just stopping using it like myself).
If Foundry authors did have that kind of control, our missions would always be listed while any non-elite authors would never see the light of day. Instead, everyone gets their fair shake. Every single one of the highlighted authors had to start from the bottom and getting your mission highlighted is not a fast track to having it done again (in fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Cryptic has an unwritten rule about highlighting the same author twice).
Now elitism does exist in the real world. I commented on twitter that the State of the Union should just rename itself the Harvard/Yale University Reunion because most politicians are all from the same small group. It is almost incestuous how few families actually have control. In 2008, we came close to having just two families (Bush and Clinton) control the executive for over 20 years! That is elitism.
There is no such elitism here in STO. You get what you work for, but then there is no power that comes with it. All of the bloggers that went to Las Vegas for the dev meet-up went on their own dime. While Cryptic opened the door for them to have access, they still had to do everything themselves.
Even those of us that have been to Cryptic don't get special privileges. If we did that name to the left would be purple and not blue. Any items I give away on my show I have to earn myself in order to give them away. No one is given anything so there is no preferential treatment.
What do we call it then?
I know there is a schism within the Foundry community about how it should be used. The Foundry is an open tool to be used by anyone and other than exploits there should be no pecking order when it comes to the quality of the content. A two minute walk in Romulan Zoo has just as must right to be listed as the half-hour mission Hollow Justice or the multi-mission arc Trembler. (I used my own missions to show I'm not above nor beneath either type of mission).
What one author would call an engaging story, another may call a bore-fest. What one author would call a fight to the death, another may call a grinder. It is all about our particular tastes. That doesn't make one opinion better than the other.
But let's be honest and call this for what it really is. This is nothing more than disappointment over the idea that FMs are no longer going to be rewarded. And while Cryptic said the FMs were always scheduled to be removed, I believe it was because people were building exploits using the Foundry.
One-click finish missions is not content, it is a cheat. A grinder serves a purpose. A story is just that. A one-click finish is a shortcut to rewards. That that does a disservice to the reward and the Foundry.
So the term 'elitism' was thrown around because people think the dedicated Foundry authors are just trying to control things. That is not the case.
Could there be a slight sense of entitlement? Sure. But entitlement by its very definition means you are entitled to something. I'm entitled to my paycheck because I earned it. Foundry authors who work days building a mission should be recognized for their work and ranking down their missions solely because it takes longer than 10-seconds to complete does get in the way of that.
Conclusion
So stop calling people elitist. It is just mean spirited and it is the wrong term anyway. There are issues with this game but I can promise there is no all-powerful group of players who control things. Only the devs controls what happens in this game.
If anything, perhaps the dustup involving the FM removal will serve a purpose. It shows the devs there is a dedicated user base and the Foundry needs fixing. As for the FMs themselves, they have already fixed it on Tribble and that change will most likely hit Holodeck soon (if it hasn't already, I don't make a habit of reading every change log).
So again, stop calling people elitist. All you are doing is dumbing down the term to the point where it won't have the proper effect when actually used correctly. People used to take the term "troll" very seriously. Now, I just assume that the accusing party just disagrees with a statement.
TL;DR Version
Just read the damn title.
"If you have never used Cello, I'm not interested in your browser opinion."
___________________________
In game: Commadore_Bob; Joined Jul 2009; That post count + 20,000
___________________________
In game: Commadore_Bob; Joined Jul 2009; That post count + 20,000
Post edited by commadorebob on
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Comments
Actually by your definitions I am elitist.
Under definition number 1: I consider some people (myself and other people with an IQ over 140) superior to other people (everyone else) and feel we deserve preferential treatment and superior rewards for having to put up with the ignorant masses (also everyone else).
Stop being such an elitist.
It's pretty much this hard to keep just one timeline intact. ♪
But it's just foundry stuff again... :rolleyes: Since the FM increase in events, I doubt anyone cares anymore...
The reason why the term elitist is a rightly earned label is because Foundry authors used to create different threads complaining about farming missions in the Foundry. They looked down their noses at these missions that took 30 minutes to create getting a higher rating than their so called 90 minute masterpieces. They made themselves look like complete snobs.
Later on the term exploit was coined in reference to these farming mission to give the authors a leg to stand on in the debate, and not look like the douche-bags they appeared to be previously. Eventually things snowballed until these exploit missions were removed. I knew the first day I played one of those missions they were on the endangered species list, so I wasn't surprised when they were fixed.
Personally I don't see all foundry authors as elitists, but those that feel their missions should receive special consideration over other peoples, or those that look down their noses at other missions certainly fit that title.
Impressive post , with some good/bad points but it all in all comes across as stirring up (more) %^&* two hours after the party ended .
Partially yes .
But it's also a slow build up of anger over 3 topics (clicky's , timid creatures , FM's) that were nerfed by Cryptic very close to a time when some ppl (read: certain Foundry authors) complained about them .
I love coincidences . I hope you do as well .
Ppl were soured by the clicky's going away (after being in the game for a whole year) and ppl were soured by the change to the timid creatures and the removal of the FM .
Like it or not this has caused some animosity toward certain Foundry authors and the Foundry itself .
Bringing it up (again) for "discussion" will not make those feelings go away .
Is that what you call the mid-term test at Starfleet academy ?
I iz amused .
Okay .
I've gone with zealots .
Is that better ?
first off, the mmo genre has adopted alot of terms.. elitist is one of them.. in the mmo universe, elitist is someone who feels that they are king, and should only play with other kings (for lack of a better explanation)..
i am half elitist as i expect people who are max level with decent gear to have a basic understanding of the game, and the fights in which we participate..
however, there are people who
1, leave if someone isnt in the correct "formation"
2, leave if they dont like the ships that are being flown
3, leave groups because someone asks a question..
4, will not pug or participate in non premade group efforts..
these people are the very definition..
as far as it being mean spirited, well, these people are generally nasty to the general public.. they usually will not hesitate to point out most newer players misgivings without even offering an answer to the problem at hand.. further more, i dont find it mean spirited.. i live by a motto act like a bi**h get slapped like a bi**h...
and as for things being against the rules (which i know i am about to break them as well).. it is also against the rules for you to bring up that someone or a group of people are breaking the rules.. you are supposed to make a ticket.. they do not want non mods and non devs rolling around playing forum police.. (we had a huge issue with that in the past)..
so while it is a rather true point.. it was not needed..
thank you sir.. good day.
Humbly speaking, most Foundry authors do have a special place in the community as they are taking A LOT more dedicated time and effort to create something for everyone to be able to use that expands the gaming experience and not getting any tangible compensation. I wouldn't call them elitist ... but if there is a gripe in that area of the community, it may be worth understanding their point of view for its own sake.
By the way, how is the entire Fleet system in this game not Elitist in of itself?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The o3 - Killed you good
l2r your own definition.
The charge of elitism has been in STO since day one. Run a forum search for the word "elitism." It seems almost like that the second post on the forums was someone calling someone else an elitist.
Played in head start? You were called an elitist.
Didn't want to add the auto-fire feature? . You were called an elitist.
Wanted them to add a death penalty ? You were called an elitist.
Wanted to play only PVP? Elitist!
Didn?t to think the game was Trek enough? Elitist!
Wanted more raids? Elitist!
Play only as KDF? Elitist!
Played only as Fed? Elitist!
There is page after page of people being called elitist. Which, I think, stems from players thinking that what they do or want in game is the only way to play. Or that how they play the game is somehow "better" than how others play the game.
Everyone contributes to the STO community in their own way to make it better. Whether by creating a great mission in the foundry, running a mega fleet, setting up PvP matchss, Role Playing as a Bajorian, grinding dilithum & fleet marks for your fleet, make a fan podcast or website, doffing, or even dropping a boat load of cash on lock boxes. If you think any of those is any less of a valid way enjoying the STO or contributing to the game?. well you might just be an elitist.
Well, except for the role playing as a Bajorian. That serves no propose at all and just takes up space. I'm kidding! Call me Kia Opaka!
Beers,
Jengoz =/
dont forget that buying things off the store and using speacialty consoles is also elitist lol...
it is silly, but the best way to deal with it is to ignore it.. making posts that complain about it only fuel the wanna be elitist's and the real elitist's lol...
As for the other things that get people called "elitist" in a negative sense? Hey, you could play any faction you like, any race you like, any ship you like, any gear you like, as long as when we're teamed up together you can pull your own weight and play with honor.
Former/Cryptic Name: Captain_Hans_Langsdorff
Founding member, Special Service Squadron
"Fear God and Dread Nought." First Sea Lord, Adm. Jacky Fisher
Any chance that we can get an "Elitist" title and accolade? We can all be elitist then
THIS, was made for FUN, like all MMO games. When it ceases being FUN, and you become stressed over it, and feel you need to rant (or even chew people out), then you have a problem. Step away from the computer for a bit, give yourself a time out, and fix the problem. Come back, join the community again, and have FUN.
FUN n.1. A source of enjoyment, amusement, or pleasure.
2. Enjoyment; amusement: have fun at the beach.
3. Playful, often noisy, activity.
synonyms- merriment, playfulness, diversion, recreation
frivolity, frivolousness - the trait of being frivolous; not serious or sensible
GAME -An activity providing entertainment or amusement
If you are no longer playing for these reasons, then you are playing for all the wrong reasons. What difference in life will it ever make if you are the best at this GAME? You are neither elite, because you can mash all the right buttons, or great. In fact, if you cannot treat people correctly, then you are a failure.
Success to me is, when I am gone, how many people will actually miss me, not how many people I THOUGHT I was better than, or THOUGHT was better than me.
Have fun, and enjoy people. Be a good person. That is success. We just dont hear that in this day and age anymore.
-Sean
You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else. -Einstein