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Feedback on the Andorian escort pack
chuckingram
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
Hello all. The title says it all. Please add any thoughts you might have on the subject. I?ve had it since release and have flown it extensively in e-STF?s. It uses the Borg XII set with VR Andorian cannons, the Omega weapons set and one turret. I?m a tac.
I?ll start with the positives:
1 It?s a gorgeous ship, much more detailed and customizable than I thought possible. Well done Cryptic!
2. With my configuration, the Charal ?feels? good, not more so than my F-Defiant, but still very good.
3. Using the primary weapons, with Boff powers, as I would any other ship, it has a unique feel to it that I?m starting to appreciate.
The negatives:
1. The special console abilities seem tacked on and way over-balanced. Since the CD issues between console and Boff powers have been discussed and acknowledged, I won?t rehash it here.
2. Having bought the Ody and Vesta packs, I was able to pick the tactical variants and run with them. Not so the Andorian. The Kumari variant is far too lacking in Boff space for healing to be able to perform its function, kill things quickly. Once I pull aggro (which can be often, depending), from say a tactical cube, I need to get out of range quickly or be prepared to eat a respawn.
3. The ?glass cannon? effect. Based on what I?ve read from the devs, this seems to have been a design philosophy. I shouldn?t have been, IMO. Sure, balance the ship so it isn?t game breaking, but to come this close to crippling a great concept with nested nerfs is, well, distasteful.
I?ll start with the positives:
1 It?s a gorgeous ship, much more detailed and customizable than I thought possible. Well done Cryptic!
2. With my configuration, the Charal ?feels? good, not more so than my F-Defiant, but still very good.
3. Using the primary weapons, with Boff powers, as I would any other ship, it has a unique feel to it that I?m starting to appreciate.
The negatives:
1. The special console abilities seem tacked on and way over-balanced. Since the CD issues between console and Boff powers have been discussed and acknowledged, I won?t rehash it here.
2. Having bought the Ody and Vesta packs, I was able to pick the tactical variants and run with them. Not so the Andorian. The Kumari variant is far too lacking in Boff space for healing to be able to perform its function, kill things quickly. Once I pull aggro (which can be often, depending), from say a tactical cube, I need to get out of range quickly or be prepared to eat a respawn.
3. The ?glass cannon? effect. Based on what I?ve read from the devs, this seems to have been a design philosophy. I shouldn?t have been, IMO. Sure, balance the ship so it isn?t game breaking, but to come this close to crippling a great concept with nested nerfs is, well, distasteful.
Post edited by chuckingram on
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Comments
I disagree, I think the 'wing' cannons should be limited to one, and allowed on any ship that can mount dual cannons. The effect is gorgeous. The drones, are too large though, they should be smaller so they could fit into a shuttle bay.
Remove a Tac console? That's just the Sci/Eng Kumari.
Remove the 5th cannon? Then it's just a Z-store version of the bugship with a slower turnrate. Might be interesting for people who can't afford a bugship.
Reduce the Hull/Shield Coefficient? Then you're right back to glass cannon.
Two is what the ship has, and I doubt that's going to change. As far as the size of the drones, I agree. However, I'm a LOT more concerned with how fragile they are. Being a console extra, they should be more useful.
Perhaps leave the shield modifier where it is. All I'm asking for as a dedicated tac is some more viability, like my F-TER (which can be very powerful as well), and an open admission that I shouldn't have to pray that someone heals me. And I won't even bother mentioning how useless the Kumari's extra tac seat is.
In all honesty, it's not like they just slapped a free mount on the ship. They simply moved one from aft to fore.
I can only address my experiences with the Kumari. To do anything else would open up a can of worms.
Creatively handled, the Kumari is a monster. Try thinking outside the box, that extra tac is far from useless.
1) Moving a mount from aft to fore is not a trivial balance change. The ability to load another weapon into the forward salvo on a (potentially) 5-console ship is massive.
2) You knew going in that this ship sacrificed survivability for output. If you didn't that's on you for not doing your homework.
3) Thinking that only tacs should be flying tac ships, only engineers should be flying engineering based ships and scis should only be in science based ships is incredibly shortsighted. Be creative.
If you can't keep yourself alive in an Armitage or Jemmy HEC, you're doing it very wrong.
Here are my thoughts:
1-As previously stated, the ship is gorgeous, and I love the Ando Weapon effects/sound. I also agree that the cannon pet size is a wee bit too big. Even if you scaled it correctly, they're annoying as heck at typical escort zoom scale, and they like to block your field of view. Looking at some pics of the Enterprise bridge set, I think they nailed it. Yes, it's smaller, but the ENT ship was a battlecruiser, not escort, and justifiably bigger. Well done.
2 - It's a pure tac ship (again, I'm referring to the Kumari Tac version), and freakin deadly when the business end is pointed in the right direction, as it should be. It makes me giggle when I fly it, and that's exactly what I ground/paid for. I was not expecting an OP pvp ship, and therefore I was not upset when I didn't get one. But danm is it fun. ;]
3 - It is [justifiably] easily popped (relative to things like the Fleet Defiant, Fleet AE, Fleet Patrol, Steamrunner, etc.), even after the fixes, it can't take the beating the other fed escorts can. As it shouldn't. Yes, I said that. Sure, I'd love to see this thing tank as well as some of the others, but it shouldn't. This is it's role, and I accept it, you should too. Sure the other two versions can take a little more of a beating at a loss of potential firepower, but that still puts things like the Flt Defiant and Bug heads and shoulders above this ship.
This is what all escorts should be like. Glass cannons. As great as it would be to be able to tank like an Odyssey in it (as some Fedscorts seem to do), that is the very problem with the existing escorts...they shouldn't be able to do so, and that's coming from someone that does it. This is the trade-off...potential firepower for survivability, and so far, I think this is right on this ship, and keeps it from being the OP ship some claim it to be, while others claim is it not and desire.
As some have been saying, it's a BoPtor without cloak. Fun, potentially very dangerous, but easily neutralized.
My main concern/question are with the wing cannons and Dil Store Andorian weaps...
- Those that purchased the 3-pack should be able to outfit 2 of the 3 wing cannons on a ship. The Wing cannon is only slightly better than an Ando XI DHC, so I don't see it as a game-changer allowing 2 of them.
- Dil store weaps are expensive (note my lack of surprise tho), and limited to just Mk XI versions? Where are the Mk XII Ando versions? The weap effects are very fun, but Fleet phaser weaps are better quality. Release some mkXII versions to keep them slightly competitive with even fleet advanced weaps, and let us keep the fun color/sound/effects! ;] I however think the Ando weaps should be limited to use on current and future Ando ships, not usable on other ships. Uniqueness.
The above are simply my initial opinions.
I never said or implied that the change was trivial. only that it isn't the "Oh God, NO!" moment that some think it is.
As for the rest, considering that it's filled with unfounded assumptions, and is a sight too personal for my tastes, I'll just leave you with this nugget: Archon mentioned that as a design approach they tend low-ball a ships abilities with the idea of buffing where needed after the numbers, and opinions, are in.
Nicely written. In order to limit this to a more reasonable range of proposed requirements, I don't need any of the Ando variants to be "tanks", whatever that REALLY means. I simply don't see the point of this much potential firepower (meaning the Kumari variant) when I have to turn tail and run at the first tickle of incoming from a cube. In essence, I'm more than willing to accept the fragile nature of escorts as a tradeoff for damage output, but I shouldn't equate any of them with wearing a deathtrap. This entire excercise should be fun for me, not an engineered ordeal
Also, I don't do PvP in this game, so I can't speak to it. I don't care how the Kumari plays under those conditions.
You've said this twice now, with slightly different wording.
There-in lies a problem. Cryptic needs to design these ships for both PvE AND PvP. And if you only focus on one side of the coin, then you lose out on possible explanations for what you might see as ineptitude.
If this ship wasn't as squishy as it is, it would probably rule PvP. As is, they needed to balance it's PvP ability out, and as such it's PvE potential suffered.
Balance.
I agree completly. Thanks!
I have to agree, I'm an out and out escort captain from my first day in the game. I can tank like a boss with most things. I like the kumari. its a challenge and the big dps rewards out weigh the risk. Yes its squisher then a bug/or patrol, and slightly squishier then a defiant, but hey thats trade off.
I like it, and some real bare knuckle rides in it when focused and making it out alive. its fun. if i wanted to play safer id jump in my bug or temp destroyer and really tank it up, but its nice to have the change.
Also when in PVP the idea of NEEDING a healer is more pronounced. and as the dude above says, its probably how all escorts should be. should escorts be able to tank like a boss? I was relunctant to post this for fear of an overall escort nerf ( like i said i love 'em) but in strict terms the andorian ship does pose an interesting dynamic. ie that the gap between a dps and a tanking ship should be broader, you can have one or the other, not both....
Anyways my take on it before I slap myself for giving devs the idea to nerf all escorts! :rolleyes:
I'd try the engi or sci variant but to be honest, i have a bug so cant see them out performing it even with the 5th fore cannon at expense of losing the 5th console. could be wrong, if anything i think the variants serve as a good bridge for guys without a bug. a step up in dps without losing surviveablity, ie compared to the squisher Fleet defiant and fleet AE. then again damage control doffs do make them more viable
dont forget to come check us out on PESTF for all your dilith needs!
www.elitedefensestarfleet.com
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WE WANT A KDF BOP 3 PACK!!
Well at release, the shields were bugged so any test anyone did means nothing.
After today's patch, hey presto we have here what I will be so bold as to say a "SKILL ship"
I fly BOTH the Kumari and charal, to set the record straight if you can't survive then go back to the drawing board, respec/change boffs and sort your ship out. I can survive a tax cube on elite with no problem in the Kumari and lemme tell you now if you put the time in to figure this ship out and learn how to fly it, it's undoubtedly the most powerful pve ship in the game and an exceptional quality in pvp. Im not putting my build/setup here because 90% of AE's I've fought thus far I own the living hell out of an I love to hear them scream.
Seriously though the Kumari CAN survive but you need skill. End of. It's not a "stick a noob in it and they rock" ship, it's a pro's only or premade 5-5 ship for pvp. Which is good because the tank or lack thereof will keep this version in balance so they don't nerf it.
The khyzon, is a temp destroyer with weaker shields and greater damage try it out, use your temp build, Need I say more?
The charal. Pft fly it, I will say though fleet defiant? Vs this? Oh please go fix your broken build lmao.
It's more fragile than the Fleet Defiant Retrofit, but also deals somewhat more damage - that's pretty much what I expected. It's a good PVE escort - especially if you have friends that can heal you. I haven't tried it, but in PVP I'd expect it to be the victim of choice for focus firing BOPs.
If you want something tougher - stick to the Saber Retrofit, Chimera, Fleet Refit (or pretty much any of the other T5 escorts).
My complaints about it are two-fold. First, it's just way too big for a ship with a crew of 86. It needs to be closer to the Defiant in size - maybe a bit smaller than a Nova (crew 150ish iirc).
Second, and more importantly, I know phasers are the 'Official Weapons of the Federation', but all these fed ships with special phaser attacks basically force you into either using phasers (so your tac consoles affect all your energy weaps), or wasting the ships special abilities because you have a different kind of energy weapon console.
Galaxy Dreadnaught = run all phasers or nerf/lose the lance
Guramba = run all disruptors or nerf/lose the Javelin
Chimera = run all phasers or nerf/lose the lotus
Fugly KDF Anniversary Ship = run all disruptors or nerf/lose the lotus
Kumari = run all phasers or nerf/lose the wing cannons
This also applies to a lesser degree to the phaser and disruptor point defense turrets - which great consoles _IF_ you are running phasers or disruptors. And of course, Fed players only have access to the phaser one and kdf to the disruptor one. They're not nearly so useful if you are running a different energy weapon type.
The thing that bugs me about this is that they make the ships weaker in other areas to balance them against having the included special weapons/attacks. So if you don't use phasers on your Kumari, the wing cannons will be much weaker (if you keep them at all) and the rest of the ship will still be weaker because they assume that everyone with a Kumrari must be using the included special wing cannon phaser attacks.
One of the best things about STO is the ship combat - and how much you can customize your ship/build. We've got all the different weapon types, BOFF stations, consoles, Captain Skills, DOFFs, etc. There are tons of options, but the special attacks on these new ships seem to be very limiting.
Just my .02,
- SC