If Cruisers were turned into the Borg as they are represented in this game then that truly would be a nerf, lol.
I think I get your meaning though. The concern is that the Borg are made "more difficult" by boosting their base stats like hull, shields, damage, etc. If that is all that happened it really would be awful. That's why something needs to be done with yoyo healing and all of the innate passive healing (now passive heals are something that the Borg should have more of :x).
Correct.
However with regards to their passive healing, that's actually one of the biggest complaints I see come from the PvP community.
They do not balance their shields, use EPTS (generally, I think Donatra does) or use TT (these are all damage mitigators that function similar to regeneration).
Increasing their passive healing would only see it become more of a DPS race.
The basic idea is that, if cool downs on abilities like heals were reasonable, your cruiser could take a beating but healing up to 100% instantly would ...
Let's imagine that in this game world the cruiser has 200k base hull, 50% resistance, equating to 400k hull. As well as 50k shields.
Then, to keep that in line we:
> Nerf passive healing
> Nerf active healing
> Do we nerf resistances or leave them the same?
And rely on attrition to win battles.
That's very similar to what the borg in STFs are now.
This is not to mention that if the above things happened you'd also have to nerf damage:
2 escorts pumping out even just raw 6k DPS
with 3 other ships putting out raw 3k DPS (made up numbers)
means in 30 seconds these 5 players can deal 630,000 points of damage killing the above Cruiser, and most likely vaporizing any Escort within 5 Seconds (unless we leave active resistance buffing as is in place, such as ES, EPTS, etc.).
i agree with Hale on the beam array being 1 shot per cycle. i floated that a week ago, might have heard it from me. not only would it make beam arrays look correct, at least from large fed cruisers with arrays, but a single shot per cycle delivering the entire damage that abruptly would make its effect DHC like, it would actually mater.
a mkX beam array deals 200 damage a shot with 4 shots at 160 DPS, make that all from 1 hit and it will deal 800, and then have a lengthy cooldown. at the same time a mkX DHC fires 2 shots at 348 damage each with 696 total, but has 232 DPS.
that would create more interesting game play for sure, trying to be out of a cruiser's broad side arc as its weapons cooldown to fire again. hitting abruptly like that, a cruiser with 3 forward arrays could probably knock down a shield facing, and even use torps of all things! this sounds better and better actually.
the beam 1 shot per cycle though, that should only be reserved for forward arc federation cruisers, excluding the excelsior. the current beam arrays in game are accurate for the small beam banks you would find on an array-less ship like all non federation and all old ships that had ball turrets till their last appearance in canon. they also fit what the short aft arrays on fed ships should fire like.
to give the galaxy class a nod, its aft beams should be fired from the back of the main saucer arrays, an over the shoulder attack but only wile its not separated. making it the only ship that has these 1 shot per cycle beams fore and aft. its so canon it hurts. there would be no reason to fire those tiny arrays if the object was in the arc of the main arrays, thats why you never saw them used. the only exception was BoBW when they were trying to hit the cube with several different modulation beams at once to try to get some effect on the thing.
here we have something i like to call balanced but different. you have escorts that have the highest DPS and high spike cannons, with low damage mitigation. you have battle cruisers that have high DPS and high spike cannons, with high damage mitigation, but much lower maneuverability to make it harder to use those weapons. and you have federation cruisers with low DPS but high spikeing forward beams, with high damage mitigation but absolutely dreadful turn rate.
it all balances out as far as damage dealing goes. with that highest spike potential beam arrays have, the poor turn rate will finally be appropriate on fed cruisers. escorts and battle cruisers that already can use DHCs cant use these 1 shot per cycle beams, they are stuck with the tiny array version fore and aft. the only acceptation should be the akira and the nebula, using the heavy beams fore.
fed cruisers would almost have to use torps to get decent damage dealing, the beams hiting harder then DHCs, but half as often will open holes. but all that downtime in between will be killer for making it stick. suddenly the regent would be an amazing ship with this change come to think of it.
a mkX beam array deals 200 damage a shot with 4 shots at 160 DPS, make that all from 1 hit and it will deal 800, and then have a lengthy cooldown. at the same time a mkX DHC fires 2 shots at 348 damage each with 696 total, but has 232 DPS.
that would create more interesting game play for sure, trying to be out of a cruiser's broad side arc as its weapons cooldown to fire again. hitting abruptly like that, a cruiser with 3 forward arrays could probably knock down a shield facing, and even use torps of all things! this sounds better and better actually.
This sounds terribly unbalanced.
You want to more than triple the base damage per volley of a DBB and let that loose with a BO every 15s with a 250 degree arc?
You want to more than triple the base damage per volley of a DBB and let that loose with a BO every 15s with a 250 degree arc?
BO should probably so the same damage with any type of beam, DBB, array, or the 'heavy array' that has been suggested.
The idea with BO is that it does more damage by momentarily channeling all of a ships power through a weapon. So it kind of doesn't make sense that dual beams do more with it, given that they are just splitting up that power, not adding more to it.
In the days before lockboxes and fleet vessels you might have had half a point. However, any niche that Fed snoozers may have once fit has been completely eroded by cross-faction/fleet ships that outclass them both at healing/protection (Wells, Recluse) and sustained damage or maneuverability (pretty much every Klinkydink snoozer). Even on a stat-by-stat basis Fed snoozers are terribly outclassed: the Fl. Vorcha has a frankly ridonkulous 1.1 mod to the Fleet Stargazer's .94, for instance).
Some moar evidence that considering Cryptic calls themselves DS9 fanboys, they must've been watching a different show to the one I did (pay close attention to each appearance of a Galaxy class in the clip):
You want to more than triple the base damage per volley of a DBB and let that loose with a BO every 15s with a 250 degree arc?
This would restrict these massively burst capable weapons to the tankiest ships
I'm sorry but I don't think this idea "balances" damage at all.
never mentioned DBB, i wouldn't change them. actually im suggesting they should exactly quadruple the damage of each beam array shot. but after it fires, count to 4, it will take that long before it fires again, so it actually has the same DPS it always had.
they could keep the BO damage from these beams at the normal beam array level, because these are just normal beams with a different functionality when on the forward arc of fed cruisers. or not, let BO work best from big long federation beam arrays, as it should.
shield facing penetration, what a concept. sure, those beams could cut a good hole in one with 3 or 4 good hits, but then theres a huge delay of 4 seconds before it can fire again. thats more then enough time for auto distribute to completely undo the facing drop. remember, cruiser turn rate is horrible, thats why beams have the arc they have. and overall the DPS is still terrible. but like i had mentioned, it would make torpedoes on cruisers an ideal choice, if you could time it well. a few of these beam shots against TT wouldn't even faze it, just look at the DPS TT can deal with from full on CRF DHCs alpha.
KDF cruisers would still be MUCH more deadly over all. but fed cruisers should not be such utter fail boats when used tactically, more then in a healer role, the same as KDF cruisers are dynamic now. they should not be dangerous in identical ways though of course. this all fits well with observed canon too, something that should have been adhered to more then the TRIBBLE warrior, healer, mage triumvirate, applied to fricking starships.
never mentioned DBB, i wouldn't change them. actually im suggesting they should exactly quadruple the damage of each beam array shot. but after it fires, count to 4, it will take that long before it fires again, so it actually has the same DPS it always had.
they could keep the BO damage from these beams at the normal beam array level, because these are just normal beams with a different functionality when on the forward arc of fed cruisers. or not, let BO work best from big long federation beam arrays, as it should.
shield facing penetration, what a concept. sure, those beams could cut a good hole in one with 3 or 4 good hits, but then theres a huge delay of 4 seconds before it can fire again. thats more then enough time for auto distribute to completely undo the facing drop. remember, cruiser turn rate is horrible, thats why beams have the arc they have. and overall the DPS is still terrible. but like i had mentioned, it would make torpedoes on cruisers an ideal choice, if you could time it well. a few of these beam shots against TT wouldn't even faze it, just look at the DPS TT can deal with from full on CRF DHCs alpha.
KDF cruisers would still be MUCH more deadly over all. but fed cruisers should not be such utter fail boats when used tactically, more then in a healer role, the same as KDF cruisers are dynamic now. they should not be dangerous in identical ways though of course. this all fits well with observed canon too, something that should have been adhered to more then the TRIBBLE warrior, healer, mage triumvirate, applied to fricking starships.
Up to 40 Beam Arrays w/4x the spike damage @ 1 time on a target would be OP and way over the top. A team could hit 3 different targets full alpha in under 15 seconds. Keep in mind Beam Arrays have an Arc and distance and travel time advantage over cannons. I don't see the need for this extreme type of change.
This just comes across as Feds wanting ships that are the best in all cases. They already have better Escorts, Scis, Support Cruisers (based on the ships they're supporting). They have a lot of Boff variety to choose from.
KDF have exploitable drain pets so carrier advantage (though feds have every ship type that can deploy pets a couple on KDF side), the Vet ship, and BCs. That's it. Raiders have been left behind for a long time now. Destroyers are nice pug ships, but w/o a cloak don't work for hit and run play and for Fed style fights they don't have the damage nor turn capabilities of high end escorts.
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
I think at that point there is no reason for DBB to exist.
It's better as it is.
On an escort, maybe. They used to be okay on cruisers if the turn rate was high enough.
It says a lot that the only useful type of beam weapon now is a DBB paired with BO. Arrays used to be good for pressure DPS, but pressure DPS is pretty irrelevant now.
*Something* needs to be done with beam arrays. I kinda think that if they didn't suffer so much drain, that might do it. If they had a BOff power to buff their spike damage, that might do it too (BO is pretty weak with an array, especially considering how much it's drain reduces the rest of the damage).
I really think that the idea is just too far fetched.
An entire class of weapons, that can only be used on some cruiser of one faction only, that have a special interaction with current BO.
I'd rather they just adjust standard BAs if the devs feel they are underperforming - I also think its more realistic that this would happen.
"An entire class of weapons, that can only be used on some cruiser of one faction only"
good description of DHCs! with 1 extreamly minor exception. here is exactly what im trying to propose
-beam arrays unchanged for all ships, except when placed in the forward arc of fed cruisers
-the weapon would simply fire 1 shot per cycle in the forward slot of a fed cruiser, with the same DPS it always had.
- beam array BO damage unchanged from current
thats it. with 4 entire seconds of no follow up, it will still just end up being pressure damage, but at least it will put you on notice, and give you a healthy fear of a fed snoozer that exactly no one has right now. even if a bunch of them are shooting 1 target, TT wont even blink with its DPS, and with no followup if a shield gets downed for an entire 4 seconds, only a cruiser with a friend will make that spike count. what a novel concept, cruiser damage being useful to a team effort. talk about a relic of the past.
i also think single cannons should become heavy single cannons, those weapons large borg ships have, so they don't look exactly like turret shots anymore. and so they are more effective then they are now. since like beam arrays, they arent effective enough.
I still think the problem is the weapons and to a degreee the powers.
For instance the engineering class has only 5 powers available at ENS. 4 of which share a cd.
Compared to tac 9 with 3 cd categorys, and sci 8 and I think most of those share a cd only with higher level powers. maybe some lower level utility powers for the eng slots like a space supressing fire that only affects beams.
Why is it that the high level beam powers can only be carried on afew beam only ships? Shouldn't the tier 3 version of each power simply take up the tier 2 versions slot?
Maybe instead of a damage increase beam powers an weapons should gain some kind of utility. Like an innate shield penetration or a stacking debuff of some kind to reflect the pressure damage they are supposed to inflict. If it works for the weaker torps why not the weaker energy weapons.
See the link in my sig, I made a mor indepth post about my ideas elsewhere.
As a time traveller, Am I supposed to pack underwear or underwhen?
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
-the weapon would simply fire 1 shot per cycle in the forward slot of a fed cruiser, with the same DPS it always had.
- beam array BO damage unchanged from current
BO would be my main concern, so if that's not part of it than I wouldn't have to much issue with it - but who knows how ridiculous this might be with FAW.
No one even notices standard DHC fire, this would be double that and then you can put FAW on top of it. 1v1 that would probably exceedingly overpowered.
They would also need to specifically build a special interaction between BO and these arrays as "current" BO is based on the weapon's base. So this is probably not some simple thing.
BO would be my main concern, so if that's not part of it than I wouldn't have to much issue with it - but who knows how ridiculous this might be with FAW.
No one even notices standard DHC fire, this would be double that and then you can put FAW on top of it. 1v1 that would probably exceedingly overpowered.
They would also need to specifically build a special interaction between BO and these arrays as "current" BO is based on the weapon's base. So this is probably not some simple thing.
remember, the dps is still horrible. the total damage your taking will be much less.
Cruisers main problem is that beam arrays are UP "power drain and dmg and other things":D Other than that there is that shield power lvl that only affects the shield regeneration why not shield cap ? I think mostly all cruiser captains put in all their power to weapons, and to the shields. Why not benefit for that? btw escorts already have shield mod of 0.9-1 what is weird in so many ways :eek:
Extremely disappointing the direction this game is going for Cruiser pilots.
Beams are still underpowered for a very long time now and viability for cruisers in most if not all situations has faded. This is regarding to both PvP and PvE.
Mechanics and balance issues are still not being addressed.
Extremely disappointing the direction this game is going for Cruiser pilots.
Beams are still underpowered for a very long time now and viability for cruisers in most if not all situations has faded. This is regarding to both PvP and PvE.
Mechanics and balance issues are still not being addressed.
I run an all cannon Excelsior and believe me, it's very viable and not even close to under powered. It has been known to match damage dealt with escorts in PvP and is even more effective in PvE.
Just because beams are lacking in power does not mean cruisers are not viable or that their viability is fading. It's not right to put them both in the same boat.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] ***Disenchanted***
Real Join Date: Monday, 17 May 2010
Just because beams are lacking in power does not mean cruisers are not viable or that their viability is fading. It's not right to put them both in the same boat.
Just because you fly the cruiser with best turn rate and best offensive loadout that can utilize single cannons, it does not mean that cruisers generally are not lacking. It's not right to put them both in the same boat.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
I run an all cannon Excelsior and believe me, it's very viable and not even close to under powered. It has been known to match damage dealt with escorts in PvP and is even more effective in PvE.
Just because beams are lacking in power does not mean cruisers are not viable or that their viability is fading. It's not right to put them both in the same boat.
its viable vs pugs, but any team healing makes the damage you deal disappear though. its still gradual pressure damage, even if its stronger then beam array damage.
damage that isn't DHC spike cant cause direct hull damage before your targets shields are completely removed, and even those singles can be out distributed and outpaced by heal cycling. any outside healing? might as well not bother. also, torpedoes unless they are pared with DHCs, or perfectly times BO2+, cant be used, they will never see hull.
i run some the most focused for damage fed cruisers around, DEM and glider damage pared with every shot, no mater what, its still TRIBBLE damage. kdf cruisers? now they can actually deal damage. they have access to the right weapon for starters, and tech doff builds let the few tac powers you have get used at around global.
its viable vs pugs, but any team healing makes the damage you deal disappear though. its still gradual pressure damage, even if its stronger then beam array damage.
damage that isn't DHC spike cant cause direct hull damage before your targets shields are completely removed, and even those singles can be out distributed and outpaced by heal cycling. any outside healing? might as well not bother. also, torpedoes unless they are pared with DHCs, or perfectly times BO2+, cant be used, they will never see hull.
i run some the most focused for damage fed cruisers around, DEM and glider damage pared with every shot, no mater what, its still TRIBBLE damage. kdf cruisers? now they can actually deal damage. they have access to the right weapon for starters, and tech doff builds let the few tac powers you have get used at around global.
Maybe it isn't that team healing is so advanced. Maybe it's that team alpha play blows. Sad to face that, but "oh hay this ****'s impossible to do" sounds so much like "oh hay this ****'s to hard for me". Otherwise known as...."Well in highly advanced team play blah blah blah."
Oh unless it's five cruisers with extends and Doff's that serve tea. We all know that's crazy.
Well, even 5 Galaxies extending shields on each other would stand a chance against PuGs. But the thing is, if they would be able to kill something :P
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
Try to look at things realistically and not if you are flying a different ship.
I am in my PvE Defiant retro and CAN blow almost any cruiser apart and note that defiant has a bit less survivability then other escorts.
While I am on a cruiser I have a very hard time killing escorts and I am in a full tanky PvP build.
Please do not go "OMG hes a nab" etc.
Try it all yourself and you will see all of it for yourself.
Also someone said its about engineering powers...This is true, our rank 4 or "ultimate" engi power is EWP or extend shields...? Rly? Extend shield does not help me, EWP ... 3days escort player will learn not to be under 2km range so he does not get caught in it...
or extend shields...? Rly? Extend shield does not help me,
... Snip ...
You're in the wrong ship if that's your thinking. Get an aux2batt HAC, it fits your playstyle better.
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
Maybe it isn't that team healing is so advanced. Maybe it's that team alpha play blows. Sad to face that, but "oh hay this ****'s impossible to do" sounds so much like "oh hay this ****'s to hard for me". Otherwise known as...."Well in highly advanced team play blah blah blah."
Oh unless it's five cruisers with extends and Doff's that serve tea. We all know that's crazy.
how much highly advanced team play have you even been exposed to? it really is different there, healing is overwhelmingly stronger then damage there.
when healing is stronger than damage in a match, something really easy to do, only surprise spike delivered faster then a healer can react to is going to kill anything. not even my most tac buffed single cannon excelsior build is going to deal its damage quickly enough to kill someone, unless the healers or my target are asleep. my kdf cruiser? no problem, in matches like that, ive practically 1 shot ships will well delivered torps and cannons. you of anyone should know how effective spike at the right time is, with 2 heal boats on a team, multiple escort alphas are needed, along with big debuffs. throw in strong fed cruiser pressure and, well it makes almost no difference. if the target isn't dead in 5 seconds the healers will win.
Comments
Correct.
However with regards to their passive healing, that's actually one of the biggest complaints I see come from the PvP community.
They do not balance their shields, use EPTS (generally, I think Donatra does) or use TT (these are all damage mitigators that function similar to regeneration).
Increasing their passive healing would only see it become more of a DPS race.
Let's imagine that in this game world the cruiser has 200k base hull, 50% resistance, equating to 400k hull. As well as 50k shields.
Then, to keep that in line we:
> Nerf passive healing
> Nerf active healing
> Do we nerf resistances or leave them the same?
And rely on attrition to win battles.
That's very similar to what the borg in STFs are now.
This is not to mention that if the above things happened you'd also have to nerf damage:
2 escorts pumping out even just raw 6k DPS
with 3 other ships putting out raw 3k DPS (made up numbers)
means in 30 seconds these 5 players can deal 630,000 points of damage killing the above Cruiser, and most likely vaporizing any Escort within 5 Seconds (unless we leave active resistance buffing as is in place, such as ES, EPTS, etc.).
a mkX beam array deals 200 damage a shot with 4 shots at 160 DPS, make that all from 1 hit and it will deal 800, and then have a lengthy cooldown. at the same time a mkX DHC fires 2 shots at 348 damage each with 696 total, but has 232 DPS.
that would create more interesting game play for sure, trying to be out of a cruiser's broad side arc as its weapons cooldown to fire again. hitting abruptly like that, a cruiser with 3 forward arrays could probably knock down a shield facing, and even use torps of all things! this sounds better and better actually.
the beam 1 shot per cycle though, that should only be reserved for forward arc federation cruisers, excluding the excelsior. the current beam arrays in game are accurate for the small beam banks you would find on an array-less ship like all non federation and all old ships that had ball turrets till their last appearance in canon. they also fit what the short aft arrays on fed ships should fire like.
to give the galaxy class a nod, its aft beams should be fired from the back of the main saucer arrays, an over the shoulder attack but only wile its not separated. making it the only ship that has these 1 shot per cycle beams fore and aft. its so canon it hurts. there would be no reason to fire those tiny arrays if the object was in the arc of the main arrays, thats why you never saw them used. the only exception was BoBW when they were trying to hit the cube with several different modulation beams at once to try to get some effect on the thing.
here we have something i like to call balanced but different. you have escorts that have the highest DPS and high spike cannons, with low damage mitigation. you have battle cruisers that have high DPS and high spike cannons, with high damage mitigation, but much lower maneuverability to make it harder to use those weapons. and you have federation cruisers with low DPS but high spikeing forward beams, with high damage mitigation but absolutely dreadful turn rate.
it all balances out as far as damage dealing goes. with that highest spike potential beam arrays have, the poor turn rate will finally be appropriate on fed cruisers. escorts and battle cruisers that already can use DHCs cant use these 1 shot per cycle beams, they are stuck with the tiny array version fore and aft. the only acceptation should be the akira and the nebula, using the heavy beams fore.
fed cruisers would almost have to use torps to get decent damage dealing, the beams hiting harder then DHCs, but half as often will open holes. but all that downtime in between will be killer for making it stick. suddenly the regent would be an amazing ship with this change come to think of it.
This sounds terribly unbalanced.
You want to more than triple the base damage per volley of a DBB and let that loose with a BO every 15s with a 250 degree arc?
This would restrict these massively burst capable weapons to the tankiest ships
I'm sorry but I don't think this idea "balances" damage at all.
The idea with BO is that it does more damage by momentarily channeling all of a ships power through a weapon. So it kind of doesn't make sense that dual beams do more with it, given that they are just splitting up that power, not adding more to it.
love that freaking link ty shim.
btw wish my sb was like ds9 and blow up everything
never mentioned DBB, i wouldn't change them. actually im suggesting they should exactly quadruple the damage of each beam array shot. but after it fires, count to 4, it will take that long before it fires again, so it actually has the same DPS it always had.
they could keep the BO damage from these beams at the normal beam array level, because these are just normal beams with a different functionality when on the forward arc of fed cruisers. or not, let BO work best from big long federation beam arrays, as it should.
shield facing penetration, what a concept. sure, those beams could cut a good hole in one with 3 or 4 good hits, but then theres a huge delay of 4 seconds before it can fire again. thats more then enough time for auto distribute to completely undo the facing drop. remember, cruiser turn rate is horrible, thats why beams have the arc they have. and overall the DPS is still terrible. but like i had mentioned, it would make torpedoes on cruisers an ideal choice, if you could time it well. a few of these beam shots against TT wouldn't even faze it, just look at the DPS TT can deal with from full on CRF DHCs alpha.
KDF cruisers would still be MUCH more deadly over all. but fed cruisers should not be such utter fail boats when used tactically, more then in a healer role, the same as KDF cruisers are dynamic now. they should not be dangerous in identical ways though of course. this all fits well with observed canon too, something that should have been adhered to more then the TRIBBLE warrior, healer, mage triumvirate, applied to fricking starships.
Up to 40 Beam Arrays w/4x the spike damage @ 1 time on a target would be OP and way over the top. A team could hit 3 different targets full alpha in under 15 seconds. Keep in mind Beam Arrays have an Arc and distance and travel time advantage over cannons. I don't see the need for this extreme type of change.
This just comes across as Feds wanting ships that are the best in all cases. They already have better Escorts, Scis, Support Cruisers (based on the ships they're supporting). They have a lot of Boff variety to choose from.
KDF have exploitable drain pets so carrier advantage (though feds have every ship type that can deploy pets a couple on KDF side), the Vet ship, and BCs. That's it. Raiders have been left behind for a long time now. Destroyers are nice pug ships, but w/o a cloak don't work for hit and run play and for Fed style fights they don't have the damage nor turn capabilities of high end escorts.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
I think at that point there is no reason for DBB to exist.
It's better as it is.
Sorry I was extrapolating.
You mentioned increasing the DPV of the BA to 800.
DBB MK X Base Dam = 260 x3 = 780, which is where I got my "more than triple" number from.
I brought DBB into it, because we all have experience with the DPV of DBBs and the kind of BOs they can generate. So I used it for illustration.
I really think that the idea is just too far fetched.
An entire class of weapons, that can only be used on some cruiser of one faction only, that have a special interaction with current BO.
I'd rather they just adjust standard BAs if the devs feel they are underperforming - I also think its more realistic that this would happen.
It says a lot that the only useful type of beam weapon now is a DBB paired with BO. Arrays used to be good for pressure DPS, but pressure DPS is pretty irrelevant now.
*Something* needs to be done with beam arrays. I kinda think that if they didn't suffer so much drain, that might do it. If they had a BOff power to buff their spike damage, that might do it too (BO is pretty weak with an array, especially considering how much it's drain reduces the rest of the damage).
R.I.P
"An entire class of weapons, that can only be used on some cruiser of one faction only"
good description of DHCs! with 1 extreamly minor exception. here is exactly what im trying to propose
-beam arrays unchanged for all ships, except when placed in the forward arc of fed cruisers
-the weapon would simply fire 1 shot per cycle in the forward slot of a fed cruiser, with the same DPS it always had.
- beam array BO damage unchanged from current
thats it. with 4 entire seconds of no follow up, it will still just end up being pressure damage, but at least it will put you on notice, and give you a healthy fear of a fed snoozer that exactly no one has right now. even if a bunch of them are shooting 1 target, TT wont even blink with its DPS, and with no followup if a shield gets downed for an entire 4 seconds, only a cruiser with a friend will make that spike count. what a novel concept, cruiser damage being useful to a team effort. talk about a relic of the past.
i also think single cannons should become heavy single cannons, those weapons large borg ships have, so they don't look exactly like turret shots anymore. and so they are more effective then they are now. since like beam arrays, they arent effective enough.
For instance the engineering class has only 5 powers available at ENS. 4 of which share a cd.
Compared to tac 9 with 3 cd categorys, and sci 8 and I think most of those share a cd only with higher level powers. maybe some lower level utility powers for the eng slots like a space supressing fire that only affects beams.
Why is it that the high level beam powers can only be carried on afew beam only ships? Shouldn't the tier 3 version of each power simply take up the tier 2 versions slot?
Maybe instead of a damage increase beam powers an weapons should gain some kind of utility. Like an innate shield penetration or a stacking debuff of some kind to reflect the pressure damage they are supposed to inflict. If it works for the weaker torps why not the weaker energy weapons.
See the link in my sig, I made a mor indepth post about my ideas elsewhere.
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Occidere populo et effercio confractus
Well except for nearly every KDF ship being able to mount DHCs.
And all carriers (as lol as it is), and battle carriers (Kar'fi).
BO would be my main concern, so if that's not part of it than I wouldn't have to much issue with it - but who knows how ridiculous this might be with FAW.
No one even notices standard DHC fire, this would be double that and then you can put FAW on top of it. 1v1 that would probably exceedingly overpowered.
They would also need to specifically build a special interaction between BO and these arrays as "current" BO is based on the weapon's base. So this is probably not some simple thing.
*-well, sometimes it happens:cool:
That's me !
Era Skysni.
Probably wouldn't happen now with all of the stupid reputation passives.
sad pandas are weak. dont write noob names on pink with dots on its end.
but you specifiably said cruisers :P
remember, the dps is still horrible. the total damage your taking will be much less.
Lets continue discussing this in the Spike vs Sustained thread kkthx
MT
Beams are still underpowered for a very long time now and viability for cruisers in most if not all situations has faded. This is regarding to both PvP and PvE.
Mechanics and balance issues are still not being addressed.
I run an all cannon Excelsior and believe me, it's very viable and not even close to under powered. It has been known to match damage dealt with escorts in PvP and is even more effective in PvE.
Just because beams are lacking in power does not mean cruisers are not viable or that their viability is fading. It's not right to put them both in the same boat.
***Disenchanted***
Real Join Date: Monday, 17 May 2010
Just because you fly the cruiser with best turn rate and best offensive loadout that can utilize single cannons, it does not mean that cruisers generally are not lacking. It's not right to put them both in the same boat.
its viable vs pugs, but any team healing makes the damage you deal disappear though. its still gradual pressure damage, even if its stronger then beam array damage.
damage that isn't DHC spike cant cause direct hull damage before your targets shields are completely removed, and even those singles can be out distributed and outpaced by heal cycling. any outside healing? might as well not bother. also, torpedoes unless they are pared with DHCs, or perfectly times BO2+, cant be used, they will never see hull.
i run some the most focused for damage fed cruisers around, DEM and glider damage pared with every shot, no mater what, its still TRIBBLE damage. kdf cruisers? now they can actually deal damage. they have access to the right weapon for starters, and tech doff builds let the few tac powers you have get used at around global.
Maybe it isn't that team healing is so advanced. Maybe it's that team alpha play blows. Sad to face that, but "oh hay this ****'s impossible to do" sounds so much like "oh hay this ****'s to hard for me". Otherwise known as...."Well in highly advanced team play blah blah blah."
Oh unless it's five cruisers with extends and Doff's that serve tea. We all know that's crazy.
Try to look at things realistically and not if you are flying a different ship.
I am in my PvE Defiant retro and CAN blow almost any cruiser apart and note that defiant has a bit less survivability then other escorts.
While I am on a cruiser I have a very hard time killing escorts and I am in a full tanky PvP build.
Please do not go "OMG hes a nab" etc.
Try it all yourself and you will see all of it for yourself.
Also someone said its about engineering powers...This is true, our rank 4 or "ultimate" engi power is EWP or extend shields...? Rly? Extend shield does not help me, EWP ... 3days escort player will learn not to be under 2km range so he does not get caught in it...
Something needs to be done quickly about this
You're in the wrong ship if that's your thinking. Get an aux2batt HAC, it fits your playstyle better.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
how much highly advanced team play have you even been exposed to? it really is different there, healing is overwhelmingly stronger then damage there.
when healing is stronger than damage in a match, something really easy to do, only surprise spike delivered faster then a healer can react to is going to kill anything. not even my most tac buffed single cannon excelsior build is going to deal its damage quickly enough to kill someone, unless the healers or my target are asleep. my kdf cruiser? no problem, in matches like that, ive practically 1 shot ships will well delivered torps and cannons. you of anyone should know how effective spike at the right time is, with 2 heal boats on a team, multiple escort alphas are needed, along with big debuffs. throw in strong fed cruiser pressure and, well it makes almost no difference. if the target isn't dead in 5 seconds the healers will win.