I think, if they make a for-pay expansion, it'll be an expensive Z-Store release. 5000+ Zen, easy.
Might be the main reason, why this is never going to happen ... they already charge 40 bucks for some ships ... so the price tag on an expansion would have to be ridiculous like 100-200 bucks ... and thats probably the time when people are going to realize they pay less on other AA Games ... you just don't pay 50+$ for an Expansion Pack, this is not how this works (yet) ...
Where does he even mention the word "expansion" ?? ... May UPDATE seems to be the term now, which is kind of funny because imho Season sounds bigger ... considering he is already back to "Update" my guess is Overhyping :P
I disagree. The reason Cryptic wanted 'Season' to enter the vocabulary of users is to emphasize just how regularly additions would be made across actual seasons. It failed. People don't care. People want to be able to see everything on release day, or at least be able to quantify it. I think we'll see more use of 'Update' and generalized gaming terms going forward.
If they put a faction behind a paywall, they won't sell as many c-store stuff, fleet ships, costumes, inventory slots, and so on. The current model is working well for them and a paid expansion would be quite... Adventurous.
If a Romulan faction is released (and it won't happen in may) we might see a Romulan pack with a character slot, 2-3 costumes, 4 fleet ships modules, some skill points boosts, but a paid faction? It's very unlikely to happen.
Might be the main reason, why this is never going to happen ... they already charge 40 bucks for some ships ... so the price tag on an expansion would have to be ridiculous like 100-200 bucks ... and thats probably the time when people are going to realize they pay less on other AA Games ... you just don't pay 50+$ for an Expansion Pack, this is not how this works (yet) ...
Not necessarily have to, but I know what you mean. When I was originally typing up that post I nearly put 7500 zen, but I stopped, looked and that, and I thought... "Well that's stupid."
But a C-Store option is the only way they could offer an expansion for Silvers where they don't have to pay for it, if they do a pay option. Outside of a convoluted piecemeal setup, there's really no other way to put it up for money. And I really can't see them totally locking an expansion off from Silvers.
I dunno, they have put ships and races behind a paywall.
Ahh, but the trick is, everything behind a paywall in STO is also not behind a paywall. It's easy to write that fact off because of how godawful the grind can be to get past the paywall, but the fact that alternative even exists, and it renders everything in STO acquirable without dropping a dime, is still significant.
I really dont think so. PW have their content free across all games and charge for extras. the only reason we have gold and silver is because it started out a pay to play game and we have lifers here. in an ideal world for them STO would not have a sub at all.
they have little interest in making gold that attractive. they will give us advantages when its no skin off their nose to them (the neverwinter beta invites for lifetimers etc) but i would be shocked if they started putting anything new that is related to content behind subs.
Not necessarily have to, but I know what you mean. When I was originally typing up that post I nearly put 7500 zen, but I stopped, looked and that, and I thought... "Well that's stupid."
Sure they don't "have to", but it would be hard to justify selling single Ships for 20$, Costumes for 8$ while selling an entire faction with at least 2-3 Ships, Costumes etc ... for less than 50$
If they really do this, KDF and FED players might be pretty pissed for spending 20$ on a ship etc ...
Patch Notes : Resolved an Issue, where people would accidently experience Fun.
Ahh, but the trick is, everything behind a paywall in STO is also not behind a paywall. It's easy to write that fact off because of how godawful the grind can be to get past the paywall, but the fact that alternative even exists, and it renders everything in STO acquirable without dropping a dime, is still significant.
Whether or not you believe Stahl's word, I think that it is also worth noting that this would go contrary to PWE's general business model, so far as I understand it.
While I do not believe that Cryptic has PWE breathing down their neck quite so much as many people think - different corporate cultures and structures do work in different ways, after all, and buying a company often means that the company is not micromanaged or eaten, simply owned by another person/organization - I do think that after they have gone to a large amount of effort to swap to a highly F2P model, PWE would look very unkindly at attempting such a move... particularly if it failed.
As I understand it, part of what makes F2P work is that you're giving the paying customers a lot of people to play with. If the new goodies do not have a lot of people to play with, while some aspects may work out well, others would be pretty 'meh' and chances are the end result is that someone would have a lot of explaining to do.
I don't think Cryptic is very beholden to PWE's business model. I really don't think PWE has mandated very much at all for STO.
I think Cryptic saw PWE's notes and that the bulk of the PWE-like things Cryptic does come from devs beneath Stahl cribbing PWE's notes, not PWE mandates.
And I think PWE's big thing is, in essence: "Make a western F2P MMO as profitable as an eastern F2P game. We don't care how you do it."
So I think the next trick is probably cribbing from Sony's model with EQ and DCUO.
And regardless of anything else, I think the idea that people won't have to pay to roll a Romulan is borderline delusional when the devs keep saying that the May update will redefine how factions get rolled out going forward.
I wouldn't be terribly shocked if, after May, Silver accounts can't create new Klingons either without paying a Klingon unlock fee.
Ahh, but the trick is, everything behind a paywall in STO is also not behind a paywall. It's easy to write that fact off because of how godawful the grind can be to get past the paywall, but the fact that alternative even exists, and it renders everything in STO acquirable without dropping a dime, is still significant.
And this goes back to my take that all factions will get the same missions, more or less, and that fixing the Klingons probably involves giving them access to all of the Fed missions and the Feds access to most or all of the Klingon missions.
At that point, the paywalled content might be reduced to 1-2 missions and a tutorial.
Ultimately, I don't think PWE would like significant content behind a paywall.
But if missions get redone so that all factions get access to all missions and factions get redefined as unique species, ships, flavor text, starting hub, and no more than 1-2 unique missions that aren't offered to other factions... Then it works generally with PWE's philosophy. And I don't think Cryptic is required to adhere EXACTLY.
But if missions get redone so that all factions get access to all missions and factions get redefined as unique species, ships, flavor text, starting hub, and no more than 1-2 unique missions that aren't offered to other factions...
I don't think this will happen, even though it should. Cryptic is just not intelligent enough to do the obvious thing.
If they don't have the ressources to support multiple factions 100% - and they proved over and over that they don't - then what you describe is what NEEDs to happen sooner or later to ensure proper playability. Just look at KDF event queues. Things need to be unified, end of story.
They just string us further and further along because they don't have the balls to admit it to the players. Meanwhile things just get worse and worse.
You guys got it all wrong, all this talk is about a faction lock box, where all the perks and other stuff for a faction are extremely rare drops in order to unlock the faction. And if you are lucky or well rich enough to finally unlock the faction. You will find out that this only unlocks to level 23, all the levels above it require 865 lobi for each level to unlock plus 754 lobi per ship. Oh, to unlock the your new character's bank and inventory slots, it will cost 45.000 dilithium per slot.
Stahl said many times that there would never would be any paid expansions or updates of STO. And given they are hiring more people for the STO team, I don't get the impression they are in a financial crunch that would mandate the need to go back on that word.
Honestly, the impression I got with that Lifetimer comment with "Season 8" is that Lifetimers would likely get somekind of unique item or Perk that other players would not. Similar how players get unique rewards for Tribble Testing.
looooooll... wow, stahl also said that the c-store would only be for cosmetic upgrades, and would never have any effect on the game. after he broke that, he said that going free to play was gonna make the c (z) store less expensive, when in reality prices went up..
i will garuntee that this "not season 8" (as defined by another player), is gonna introduce some of the most expensive gated content we have ever seen in game..
but alas, i am a lifetimer, so i have no worries (or do i).. i feel that eventually, pwe and cryptic are gonna get sick of getting very little money from us lifers and do something to enrage us..
What the OP is saying does make a ton of sense. Think about it.
1) Romulans will be a mini faction. They will not have a ton of new missions attached to them likely instead using existing Fed or KDF missions most likely.
2) Race unlocks already cost Zen, this would simply be an extension of that.
3) When the rumor was started about the character creator being modified and options locked behind a payway the Flake immediately jumped to the rescue squashing the rumor because of how fast rumors get out of control. He has yet to deny this. To me that means in some way it is true even if the details are off.
I don't think Cryptic is very beholden to PWE's business model.
I very much disagree. This game has had a huge paradigm shift from when it began (and content really was king) to when there were no cups in the kitchen (so c-store items were king) to now, where the grind and resources are king (lobi, lockbox lotto and grind grind grind your marks/dil/whatevs).
I really don't think PWE has mandated very much at all for STO.
They certainly have. Heck, they mandated this game go free to play. That discovery was made from Perfect World's shareholder meeting notes. Not revealed by Cryptic till they got caught with their pants down.
lol, fair enough. Even with that and the Pegh'qu, though, we're still looking at a nuts ratio of "things behind paywalls" versus "things you can get via grind if you so choose".
Besides, who'd be dumb enough to drop that much coin just for two ships?
I believe Cryptic is responsible for game development while PWE is responsible for marketing, customer support, and a few other things. Since paid expansions is part of marketing, then PWE would have to change their policies for us to actually pay for content. Even if Cryptic wants us to pay for content, then they are powerless if PWE disagrees with it. Having players spend hundreds of dollars on a ship is perfectly fine in their opinion, but paying a cent on mission content is unthinkable for them.
Specifically, I'm thinking of the DCUO model. Why? Because there's talk about new lifer/subber benefits.
My guess is that we'll see an expansion that includes a Romulan faction but it will basically be like DCUO's expansions.
So... Missions/gear/faction not available for free. Effectively "leased" to anyone with an active subscription (although you lose access if you drop out as Gold). And a one time fee for free players if they don't want to sub for it.
Now... Looking at pricetags in this game, I figure the price will be more like $50 as opposed to DCUO's $10. You won't need to buy if you sub. And an LTS counts for this purpose as subbing. And unlike DCUO, they'll push LTSes alongside the May update.
Just my hunch.
I've been a member of DCUO for about a year now and I think that the system of expansions used over there could work quite well here in STO.
Stahl said many times that there would never would be any paid expansions or updates of STO. And given they are hiring more people for the STO team, I don't get the impression they are in a financial crunch that would mandate the need to go back on that word.
Honestly, the impression I got with that Lifetimer comment with "Season 8" is that Lifetimers would likely get somekind of unique item or Perk that other players would not. Similar how players get unique rewards for Tribble Testing.
Stahl has said alot of things, all the stuff he said would never happen, have happened, all the things that were promised TO happen, have not happened.
So you might want to do a sanity check on that statement, because I wouldn't put it past them.
See being a long time member of the STO community I was around when this stuff was said, and I have witnessed first hand the double backing and back peddling on promises and statements.
lol, fair enough. Even with that and the Pegh'qu, though, we're still looking at a nuts ratio of "things behind paywalls" versus "things you can get via grind if you so choose".
Besides, who'd be dumb enough to drop that much coin just for two ships?
The same people who spend that much money trying to get lockbox ships, I would imagine. They are nice little ships, but I don't see any reason why someone would pay out the hooey for the honor of owning something that does not really exist. Still, people do weird things.
Any kind of 'paid' expansion pack runs contrary to the concept of a F2P game (where the set differences between those who pay and those who do not are convenience).
</thread>
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
500 years in the future and we still look like schmucks when getting our ID photos taken...
Honestly I cant see an expansion containing a Romulan Faction. Its possible, but I think it would create more headache then anything for them as the KDF is still.. how shall I say.. in a miserable state atm. I would put some money down on a very long extended *feature episode type deal* romulan story line, with alot of gear and items to be released to the game. Also to add to this maybe new changes to current systems (exchange/crafting/galaxy map/tailor/ect) they have worked hard on, that they havent talked about.
I know they keep using the words "Biggest Update" but they have said that before and usually when they release these said "Biggest Updates" they arent as big as we would assume.
So... Missions/gear/faction not available for free. Effectively "leased" to anyone with an active subscription (although you lose access if you drop out as Gold). And a one time fee for free players if they don't want to sub for it.
ho ho...if that's what they end up doing, i'm glad i got myself a lifer back when it was on sale in october, though that's going to seriously TRIBBLE off my romulan-crazy friend who can barely afford to pay for food, never mind a lifetime sub, or whatever such an expansion might cost
Any kind of 'paid' expansion pack runs contrary to the concept of a F2P game (where the set differences between those who pay and those who do not are convenience).
</thread>
tell that to EA/Bioware; TOR is F2P, but the free players will have to pay for the 'Rise of the Hutt Cartel' expansion when it comes out
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
I think that the terminology/label for the "May Update" changed because it is bigger than a Season...but can not really be termed an expansion...
If the May Update is finally the one that actually does finish the Klingon faction, and brings some parity to the factions, then it is not an expansion -- it is a fullfillment of a promise that was made several years ago...and it actually becomes a sort of achieved milestone that will allow Cryptic to move forward with Romulan faction plans.
The biggest obstacle for the Rom faction right now is the plain and simple fact that there is still an unfinished faction...I am guessing here...but I find it unlikely that CBS or PW would be favorable to allowing a new faction to be introduced into the game when one of the two the existing factions (Klingons) is simply not done yet.
So...a BIG update...but not really an expansion...in fact, if this theory holds true, they can't label it as an expansion -- because it is addressing current content and fleshing out a faction that already exists. There may even be legal, economic, or commercial reasons why they could not term it as an expansion if this is what it actually is -- a true completion of the Klingon faction, complete with content, the ability to start at level 1, and at least some new ships to bring us on par with the Feds.
But...on the other hand the Klingon faction has been let down -- hard -- in the past by thinking this way. Maybe I am an eternal optimist...and maybe - just maybe - this update really will be the one.
Comments
Might be the main reason, why this is never going to happen ... they already charge 40 bucks for some ships ... so the price tag on an expansion would have to be ridiculous like 100-200 bucks ... and thats probably the time when people are going to realize they pay less on other AA Games ... you just don't pay 50+$ for an Expansion Pack, this is not how this works (yet) ...
Nope that's what the whole Raptor Wing Teaser is about :P
I disagree. The reason Cryptic wanted 'Season' to enter the vocabulary of users is to emphasize just how regularly additions would be made across actual seasons. It failed. People don't care. People want to be able to see everything on release day, or at least be able to quantify it. I think we'll see more use of 'Update' and generalized gaming terms going forward.
Nah. It means they will give you Seven Seasons and then maybe a couple of Films
Woo-hoo! It can fly an assimilated Scimitar!
Hm. I wonder if the Scimitar will be the 1000 Day Ship for the Romulans. It ~does~ have a transformation.
If they put a faction behind a paywall, they won't sell as many c-store stuff, fleet ships, costumes, inventory slots, and so on. The current model is working well for them and a paid expansion would be quite... Adventurous.
If a Romulan faction is released (and it won't happen in may) we might see a Romulan pack with a character slot, 2-3 costumes, 4 fleet ships modules, some skill points boosts, but a paid faction? It's very unlikely to happen.
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
Not necessarily have to, but I know what you mean. When I was originally typing up that post I nearly put 7500 zen, but I stopped, looked and that, and I thought... "Well that's stupid."
But a C-Store option is the only way they could offer an expansion for Silvers where they don't have to pay for it, if they do a pay option. Outside of a convoluted piecemeal setup, there's really no other way to put it up for money. And I really can't see them totally locking an expansion off from Silvers.
Ahh, but the trick is, everything behind a paywall in STO is also not behind a paywall. It's easy to write that fact off because of how godawful the grind can be to get past the paywall, but the fact that alternative even exists, and it renders everything in STO acquirable without dropping a dime, is still significant.
I Support Disco | Disco is Love | Disco is Life
they have little interest in making gold that attractive. they will give us advantages when its no skin off their nose to them (the neverwinter beta invites for lifetimers etc) but i would be shocked if they started putting anything new that is related to content behind subs.
Sure they don't "have to", but it would be hard to justify selling single Ships for 20$, Costumes for 8$ while selling an entire faction with at least 2-3 Ships, Costumes etc ... for less than 50$
If they really do this, KDF and FED players might be pretty pissed for spending 20$ on a ship etc ...
*Quietly points to the Chimera*
I don't think Cryptic is very beholden to PWE's business model. I really don't think PWE has mandated very much at all for STO.
I think Cryptic saw PWE's notes and that the bulk of the PWE-like things Cryptic does come from devs beneath Stahl cribbing PWE's notes, not PWE mandates.
And I think PWE's big thing is, in essence: "Make a western F2P MMO as profitable as an eastern F2P game. We don't care how you do it."
So I think the next trick is probably cribbing from Sony's model with EQ and DCUO.
And regardless of anything else, I think the idea that people won't have to pay to roll a Romulan is borderline delusional when the devs keep saying that the May update will redefine how factions get rolled out going forward.
I wouldn't be terribly shocked if, after May, Silver accounts can't create new Klingons either without paying a Klingon unlock fee.
And this goes back to my take that all factions will get the same missions, more or less, and that fixing the Klingons probably involves giving them access to all of the Fed missions and the Feds access to most or all of the Klingon missions.
At that point, the paywalled content might be reduced to 1-2 missions and a tutorial.
But if missions get redone so that all factions get access to all missions and factions get redefined as unique species, ships, flavor text, starting hub, and no more than 1-2 unique missions that aren't offered to other factions... Then it works generally with PWE's philosophy. And I don't think Cryptic is required to adhere EXACTLY.
I don't think this will happen, even though it should. Cryptic is just not intelligent enough to do the obvious thing.
If they don't have the ressources to support multiple factions 100% - and they proved over and over that they don't - then what you describe is what NEEDs to happen sooner or later to ensure proper playability. Just look at KDF event queues. Things need to be unified, end of story.
They just string us further and further along because they don't have the balls to admit it to the players. Meanwhile things just get worse and worse.
looooooll... wow, stahl also said that the c-store would only be for cosmetic upgrades, and would never have any effect on the game. after he broke that, he said that going free to play was gonna make the c (z) store less expensive, when in reality prices went up..
i will garuntee that this "not season 8" (as defined by another player), is gonna introduce some of the most expensive gated content we have ever seen in game..
but alas, i am a lifetimer, so i have no worries (or do i).. i feel that eventually, pwe and cryptic are gonna get sick of getting very little money from us lifers and do something to enrage us..
That makes me VERY uncomfortable.. that would be terrible as a free player.
1) Romulans will be a mini faction. They will not have a ton of new missions attached to them likely instead using existing Fed or KDF missions most likely.
2) Race unlocks already cost Zen, this would simply be an extension of that.
3) When the rumor was started about the character creator being modified and options locked behind a payway the Flake immediately jumped to the rescue squashing the rumor because of how fast rumors get out of control. He has yet to deny this. To me that means in some way it is true even if the details are off.
You guys crack me up.
I very much disagree. This game has had a huge paradigm shift from when it began (and content really was king) to when there were no cups in the kitchen (so c-store items were king) to now, where the grind and resources are king (lobi, lockbox lotto and grind grind grind your marks/dil/whatevs).
They certainly have. Heck, they mandated this game go free to play. That discovery was made from Perfect World's shareholder meeting notes. Not revealed by Cryptic till they got caught with their pants down.
lol, fair enough. Even with that and the Pegh'qu, though, we're still looking at a nuts ratio of "things behind paywalls" versus "things you can get via grind if you so choose".
Besides, who'd be dumb enough to drop that much coin just for two ships?
I Support Disco | Disco is Love | Disco is Life
I've been a member of DCUO for about a year now and I think that the system of expansions used over there could work quite well here in STO.
Stahl has said alot of things, all the stuff he said would never happen, have happened, all the things that were promised TO happen, have not happened.
So you might want to do a sanity check on that statement, because I wouldn't put it past them.
See being a long time member of the STO community I was around when this stuff was said, and I have witnessed first hand the double backing and back peddling on promises and statements.
The same people who spend that much money trying to get lockbox ships, I would imagine. They are nice little ships, but I don't see any reason why someone would pay out the hooey for the honor of owning something that does not really exist. Still, people do weird things.
</thread>
500 years in the future and we still look like schmucks when getting our ID photos taken...
I know they keep using the words "Biggest Update" but they have said that before and usually when they release these said "Biggest Updates" they arent as big as we would assume.
Just my thoughts however.. time will tell.
ho ho...if that's what they end up doing, i'm glad i got myself a lifer back when it was on sale in october, though that's going to seriously TRIBBLE off my romulan-crazy friend who can barely afford to pay for food, never mind a lifetime sub, or whatever such an expansion might cost
tell that to EA/Bioware; TOR is F2P, but the free players will have to pay for the 'Rise of the Hutt Cartel' expansion when it comes out
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
I think that the terminology/label for the "May Update" changed because it is bigger than a Season...but can not really be termed an expansion...
If the May Update is finally the one that actually does finish the Klingon faction, and brings some parity to the factions, then it is not an expansion -- it is a fullfillment of a promise that was made several years ago...and it actually becomes a sort of achieved milestone that will allow Cryptic to move forward with Romulan faction plans.
The biggest obstacle for the Rom faction right now is the plain and simple fact that there is still an unfinished faction...I am guessing here...but I find it unlikely that CBS or PW would be favorable to allowing a new faction to be introduced into the game when one of the two the existing factions (Klingons) is simply not done yet.
So...a BIG update...but not really an expansion...in fact, if this theory holds true, they can't label it as an expansion -- because it is addressing current content and fleshing out a faction that already exists. There may even be legal, economic, or commercial reasons why they could not term it as an expansion if this is what it actually is -- a true completion of the Klingon faction, complete with content, the ability to start at level 1, and at least some new ships to bring us on par with the Feds.
But...on the other hand the Klingon faction has been let down -- hard -- in the past by thinking this way. Maybe I am an eternal optimist...and maybe - just maybe - this update really will be the one.