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centersolace
Member Posts: 11,178 Arc User
Alternate title: Reputation Marks are weakening the game.
It's not that they're bad, in fact, they're an excellent way of monitoring progress, you always know how close you are to the end, and it's always obtainable. So if I'm doing STFs I'm always moving forward.
But what if I don't want to do STF's?
I constantly hear about how this game lacks "content". In reality it contains quite a bit, there's just not enough incentives to do everything, or go everywhere. And the "railroading" that the current reward systems, and the reputation systems require, is seriously hurting the game.
Earlier, DStahl was kind enough to post this:
I can understand that desire, but that's causing the reputation system to work against itself, and now it's limiting the game, when it was created to do the exact opposite.
TL;DR: Everything should give everything. There should be no "Fleet Gameplay", or "Romulan Gameplay", or "Borg Gameplay". There should be only Gameplay.
It's not that they're bad, in fact, they're an excellent way of monitoring progress, you always know how close you are to the end, and it's always obtainable. So if I'm doing STFs I'm always moving forward.
But what if I don't want to do STF's?
I constantly hear about how this game lacks "content". In reality it contains quite a bit, there's just not enough incentives to do everything, or go everywhere. And the "railroading" that the current reward systems, and the reputation systems require, is seriously hurting the game.
Earlier, DStahl was kind enough to post this:
Another reason is that Fleet Marks should be for Fleet Gameplay and we will begin adjusting where Fleet Marks are granted to keep Fleet Marks in line with our Fleet gameplay goals.
I can understand that desire, but that's causing the reputation system to work against itself, and now it's limiting the game, when it was created to do the exact opposite.
TL;DR: Everything should give everything. There should be no "Fleet Gameplay", or "Romulan Gameplay", or "Borg Gameplay". There should be only Gameplay.
Post edited by centersolace on
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The Tholian planet is a great example.
I actually like the content. It might be the best ground area in the game. The rewards stink though, and its simply not worthwhile, time-wise.
"We are smart." - Grebnedlog
Member of Alliance Central Command/boq botlhra'ghom
None of the Romulans slain during the campaign have spoken from the grave. Different ideals notwithstanding, should not D'Tan be wary of any assistance offered by those who have struck down so many of his brethren? There should be dissent from officers on all sides but that is only seen in one system during the patrol and there are no lasting repercussions.
The present reputation system merely obfuscates the fact that there is nothing meaningful for us to do. As a result, they added this thinly veiled grind to an already fetid system of gameplay and called it content.
Al Rivera hates Klingons
Star Trek Online: Agents of Jack Emmert
All cloaks should be canon.
Perhaps future mission dialog will include "Reputation" options like the Diplomacy does on some missions.
That's the thing; currently STO does feel like a themepark where everything is in it's own little area. Nothing feels connected, epic, or big. With Reputation and Starbases, we could have this huge interconnected system with all sorts of activities and random stuff for you to try for hell of it. But instead we have something that takes the small content, and makes it feel smaller.
I have to agree. It does make it feel smaller.
I agree. I had been hoping that Starbases were going to be part of an Exploration Exspanse thing. I thought that maybe we'd get a big area that random generates worlds and systems (like what we got now but with much more variety). You could go out find new species, new races, and usable materials. You could only travel so far until your ship's supplies ran low and you would have to return to your Faction territory.
I was hoping that your Fleet could do this, gathering the materials and recruit the new species that they find in to a Fleet Pool. That pool could be used to set up Planetary Bases and Starbases in the expanse systems that you had uncovered. Those would, in turn, allow you to resupply there rather than going back to the Faction Territory and add different purchasables depending on what type of system your base was in. Then you could explore further out. Stretch out and make a second base in a good system. So and so forth.
I thought that maybe one Fleet could attack an Enemy Fleet's bases. That would set the enemy back on their materials and whatnot. General multi-Fleet PvP fun and Exploration all rolled in to one cool system.
Buuuut no. Instead we an instanced Starbase right next to a canon Starbase and it was all just a Dilithium Sink. Joy.
I'm not sure what their goals are for "fleet gameplay" but so far every activity that awards fleet marks is way too easily farmed solo. If fleets are supposed to be social, my doing it in a pug with no one else from my fleet, or just doing it alone (duty officer mission, pvp, daily fleet mark mission, or the nowdefunct investigate officer report) seems to me like it would completely defeat the purpose.
In my mind "fleet gameplay" is anything I do teamed with a fleetmate. Be cool if we got fleet marks attached as a reward for any mission completion we do teamed with a fleetmate.
All teh rest though, I agree, should just be gameplay.
EDIT: Keep Fleet Actions available for solo players too but make it to where Fleet Actions only award FM when queued through the Fleet UI.
Sure they time gate everyone and force them into reputation grind but what if they didnt.
Lets take the Ghost Ship mission. Its a great fun mission. They scale the enemies up so you can do it at any level and its still a fun mission. But are level 50 captains going to want to run it for MK VI chroniton launchers. No I think not.
If they scaled the prize upwards so that people got a blue mk xii chroniton torpedo or mine launcher and maybe a purple one if they accomplished the optional missions then people would race to do that mission everytime they wanted a Chroniton Launcher. The mission is there, its doable, its even fun.
But Cryptic wont reward it because they do not want you doing things that are fun. They want you grinding for reputation so you will go buy a zen card to shortcut dilithium needs for your grindfest.
They have taken the game too far into a grindfest. Every fleet leader knows everyday that many in his fleet are playing other games and doing other things rather giving into extortion based grind.
Theres content, foundry and cryptic made. Its playable. Its fun. Cryptic just wont reward or give good things to people that play their game. Go away players we dont want you here is their attitude. They put in grind based reputation because they wanted it and they meant it and they targeted it to players that pick up zen cards at walmart when buying their cheerios. The majority of people that play games for missions and fun are being escorted to the door as fast as branflakes and stahl can say buh bye to them like those stewardesses who smile happily but want you off their plane.
Reputation was done on purpose and it was not meant for the majority of the player base. It was designed and targeted towards credit card players and thats who cryptic wants in their game and not anybody else.
Right now people are logging on creating new accounts getting free ships and working hard to level up so they can fly them. It will be interesting to see how long they stick around when they discover how hard it is to get a mk xii Omega Engine to power that ship.
My opinion is different than Cryptics. I dont get to see their data mine numbers. But Im pretty sure I have a good finger pulse response on how many in my fleets play and how many dont and how and why they make their decisions how to spend their time.
Nice Post
Bug
STFs on Monday
Fleetevents on Tuesday
Romulan stuff on Wednesday
DOFFing on Thursday
Foundry on Friday
Episodereplay on Saturday
Hanging around in social zones (Bajor/Risa) on Sunday (;))
The most rewards should not go to someone, who grinds X again and again and again.
So how to do this? They try events. But I think it would be better, if everybody could do what he wants on his own time:
WEEKLY QUEST
[] Complete a STF
[] Complete a Fleetevent
[] Complete a Romulan event
[] Do 20 DOFF missions
[] Play a Foundry mission you have not played in the last 30 days (so no repeated grinding)
[] Replay an episode you have not played in the last 30 days (so no repeated grinding)
[] Spent 1 hour in a social zone
Reward: 7000 dilithium (1000 bonuns per task)
I'm OK with that actually.
When I go to Disney World I very much appreciate that the Magical Kingdom and all the little kids screaming and running are "over there" while I'm over at Epcot where there are not as many little kids screaming and running. The futuristic park surrounds me versus the cartoonish and bubbly stuff over at MK.
In STO, the themepark-ness of it means I get to direct how I'm going to spend my time. If I want to do STF = fine and I get the rewards for time spent. Alternatively, I can just run to Memory Alpha and craft something for a few more EC. Then again, maybe I can go Patrol that system for a pew pew romp.
The point is *I* get to choose how to spend my time.
Here is my perspective: I played City of Heroes from launch to close. Although each zone looked different and had different mobs to defeat it was still the same type of game-play over and over and over and over all over the game. And if you were max level then some zones were simply avoided because they offered NOTHING I couldn't get or do somewhere else. What made gameplay different was running missions vs open zones. Oh wait, this is YET ANOTHER warehouse/cave/laboratory/base to fight in ... How about a Task Force: oh wait, this one takes 1 hour to finish, that one takes EIGHT hours (no kidding) ...
And yet, I loved that game and was willing to log on every day.
In STO, I am getting that feeling too. So it must be that - for me - I am going through Square Missions and have a Square Playstyle
I am currently in 3rd place on my fleet leaderboards at about 1.1 million credits. Not a single one was earned alongside a fleetmate. I think we can establish that "Fleet gameplay isn't". :P
Grind isn't bad by itself, the great thing about videogames is that they're just as much about the journey as the destination. Grind is a journey, it can be fun, interesting and satisfying just as much as it can be TRIBBLE.
If there were 15 STF's, a couple of "special" STF's that were only available for limited periods of time, 3-4 Defera-like invasion zones, and dynamic Borg incursions unique to every sector, and all of them gave roughly equal amounts of Marks and Dilithium based on the amount of time and effort involved, I really doubt people would be complaining as much.
But as it stands, there are eight options, and you must do those eight options, because everything else is too inefficient, and they're not getting changed because of... sacrilege... or something.
Not if you want fleet marks you don't.
I don't have to go to Space Mountain if I want ice cream, or to Tomorrowland if I want a cookie, or Toon Town if I want a plushie. Disneyland (cunningly) has vendors for those kinds of things all throughout the entire park so if you need something, it's always close by no matter where you are.
It doesn't matter how awesome the ride is, if the gift shop at the end is TRIBBLE, then the customer leaves with a bad taste in their mouths.
It's the same with missions and their rewards. You could have the most well written mission, with clever puzzles, awesome visuals, and the best boss ever, but if it rewards 50 EC and warm fuzzy feelings it's still going to be disappointing. On the other hand if it gives a customizable bridge officer that can shoot lasers out of his eyes, or MC Hammer pants, or one of Guinans hats, that leaves the sweet feeling all the sweeter.
Investigate Officer Reports was perfect. After a really good, well written foundry mission it was simply the icing on the cake. After a bad one, you were still okay because you got an awesome reward.
Like you said, I'm okay with the missions being railroaded, it's just the rewards shouldn't be.
Having said that, when Cryptic comes down and says (paraphrased) "Fleet Marks are for Fleet activities" I kind of agree with that idea. Don't get me wrong, the Fleet I'm in is small and I catch myself being the only one online sometimes, so being able to do *something* that helps get more Fleet Marks is my goal. But it's not my only goal when I play and the members of the Fleet agreed to not worry about Fleet Holdings because we're a small group by intent.
Ok, so that's my group, but I think the discussion is geared for a more general audience. To that end, I want to agree with the premise of the OP
So, could Cryptic make a scaling reward? If I play a Foundry mission solo then I get ... 5 FM. But if I'm in a group then the number of participants generates a multiplier effect. I dunno.
I had the same kind of ideas. I thought maybe we would be able to select a system from the exploration sectors to build our bases in; maybe add others to our fleet's territory that need looked after by the fleet's members (sort of like the old sector patrol missions). I thought it might even tie into a large scale PvPvE territory control system, where fleets could fight against each other, or devote resources and ships to bolstering their faction's defence of contested systems.
Essentially, I thought our fleet starbases (and by extension, the fleets themselves) might actually function as military and diplomatic outposts of their faction, rather than just be social clubs that have their own shops.
Exploration *sigh*. All that wasted potential is killing me. Despite the bugged maps, bases/ships that are simply room-corridor-room-corridor-room-corridor-room-corridor-room-corridor-room and the horrible rewards I've leveled up many characters just by doing them because once in a while you get a map that has something special in it. Asteroids with hydroponic domes full of tribbles that you have to blow up, abandoned Federation bases, mountain vistas, etc.