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bareel
Member Posts: 3 Arc User
We need to know how the mechanics and the math work, and how they are supposed to work. We cannot give good feedback if we do not know how things are intended to be. Nor can we have civil discussions on the merits of various abilities, weapons, skills, etc when we are too busy arguing about how they even work.
I just started playing another game. The Devs have created this thread. http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/11707 Because of that thread if there are bugs with how an attack skill works with a weapon modifier it can be discovered easily. If a sword is hitting more often than a dagger and it is not intended it will quickly be discovered. A debate over the viability of skill A vs skill B can occur because it is known how they work.
I beg you to create a similar thread here. Share the skill modifiers, power level modifiers, how a weapon DPS is determined, how exactly weapon power overflow works, etc etc etc.
Please?
I just started playing another game. The Devs have created this thread. http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/11707 Because of that thread if there are bugs with how an attack skill works with a weapon modifier it can be discovered easily. If a sword is hitting more often than a dagger and it is not intended it will quickly be discovered. A debate over the viability of skill A vs skill B can occur because it is known how they work.
I beg you to create a similar thread here. Share the skill modifiers, power level modifiers, how a weapon DPS is determined, how exactly weapon power overflow works, etc etc etc.
Please?
Post edited by bareel on
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Not really, it is terrible for telling you the why of it.
How much does emitters skill add to heals? Game never strait up tells you unless you reverse engineer it for example.
You may wish to read this table and become familiar with it. It should help you with these sorts of issues.
There are many things though, that folks have already determined. It's spread and much of it was posted by some guy named Archived Post, making it hard to hunt down.
Still though, even outside of behind the scenes mechanics and the like - there's just the plain ol' basic character sheet things that are missing - oddly enough, here and there one can find placeholders for where the information is not displayed.
nice table - THANK YOU
No amount of knowledge will help you because you are not arguing for the right thing.
What you REALLY want is for all ships to resist damage/dps/and CC at roughly the same amounts. ASK FOR THAT!!! Instead of trying to fanagle and squeeze a little more dps from there is none by design or trying to argue for it without rebalancing everything.
The table lists a maximum bonus in the right hand column. Does this mean that there is no benefit from taking a skill above 99 by using consoles?
All generalizations are false, including this one.
- Mark Twain
That's not remotely what he's arguing for, and you *know it*. You yourself are trying to enforce that argument on him by proxy, in order to support your 'real' argument as a 'more logical' alternative, and you should be ashamed for such a disreputable approach.
This would be a sooo much needed start, and we would need it ahead of time, so that we can actually provide feedback before changes are set in stone.
*yeah i know next thing i ll start believing in new pvp content*
Is it may yet?
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
I have, even though it is pretty close to accurate even it has minor errors on it though. This is the thing that is frustrating too me. Such as 99 skill is really 99.9 skill which doesn't seem like a big deal but it does matter.
Half of his information is out of date, and not everyone is sure which half.
Their needs to be an official, final authority that states how stuff works. I'm sick of arguing for three thread pages about how mechanics work, like fleet ship shields on low tier ships or the [Dmg] mod that some think works like a proc. It interferes with the feedback process when people do not know how things are supposed to work.
Thanks for the table it was a great help with the spreadsheet I'm using to reverse engineer the weapon damage mechanics. Now I just need a new KDF toon to do some point by point testing
We saw some major issues with TBR and photonic shockwave to name just a couple between when the table was made and now.
STO tool tips and statistics are also terrible, they report total values, outside of endless respecing there is no way to actually determine if things are really broken or not, especially when things like displays for shield regen are totally broken on some shields, who knows whats going on.
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Ashamed? Ashamed of trying to help a fellow player?
I think I'm familiar enough with the OPs posting history to know exactly what his aims are. He wishes to have hard numbers to argue that A is more powerful than B. But nothing will satisfy him because A is more powerful than B by design, because B is tied to other stuff and A is limited in ways not directly tied to a straight out comparisson of A and B.
I hate to see someone that clearly cares about the games go on tangents that won't get them what they want, he isn't wrong to want all ships to be equally desirable (heck, you don't need detailed info on how things work to know the Galaxy is simply BADLY designed). But asking for hard data to then try to convince other players and then pressumably the devs that specifics on A or B are wrong is not going to work, when what its really called for is a design philosophy change.
For what its worth I think the more recent ships all sport a more "middle of the road" approach to design, not going to the extremes (like the Galaxy) that are the root of these arguments.
Edit: I'm not saying we shouldn't have access to real tooltips and info though.
Was that a compliment, after a fashion? If so thanks.
Beyond that I have given up that crusade. It is clear cryptic cares very little about balance and instead cares primarily about keeping the new things created/released desirable. Not balanced, desirable. In addition any balance changes that would be made most likely would end up being either a direct or indirect nerf to the ships/gear/abilities I use and I am typically met with much vitriol from some when I try to promote balance so why bother.
Instead I have focused on trying to help other players and share some of my knowledge of the game, which has also been met with vitriol many times because while I know how things work I cannot prove it and there is always the possibility, however remote, that I am wrong. This is a perfect example:
This thread has a ton of info including an excel sheet you can get the numbers off of.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=438561
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B23llRckDIOuejFiT0NYVzRLRE0/edit
But there is an opposing theory about the [Dmg] mod not working with critical hits and abilities like go down fighting which I have personally tested via tooltips as false but some still disagree. Although I think that can be traced back to the fire at will bug not using wepaon mods as flawing previous testing but that is just a theory. Info located in this thread.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=5966281#post5966281
And finally here are some examples of false assumptions/bad tooltips many have made about the game mechanics that lead to bad advice.
1) Subsystem power levels have a hidden decimal point. You do not have 60 aux power as it displays instead you have 60.4 aux power. This leads to some giving bad advice saying that putting points into a power skill is silly because it doesn't give an entire integer benefit.
2) [Dmg] mod, nuff said.
3) DHCs and DCs have the same proc rate over a period of time even though the DHCs fire half the shots. In addition tetryon glider will drain the same amount of shields. However, Directed Energy Modulation will deal more damage over time with the Dual Cannons last I checked.
Granted while I can mostly prove the above, I cannot completely prove them. This leads to conflicting advice being given and increased confusion to those players who are simple seeking advice who have neither the time nor ability to test for themselves. This is a game, the rules should tell me how stuff works. I should not have to copy toons over to tribble to know what the benefit from a skill is, nor should the descriptions lie to me.
Joined January 2009
I took your formula from this thread and applied it to my own sheet and with a few adjustments here and there it fixed a major error that I couldn't fix myself, thanks, so I far I'm accurate to 1 console, each console seems to put this out by 0.1 thusfar if I can confirm that 100% I can put in a new formula to trim that off
Edit: I've ironed out a few things, cheated a few others (though to the correct end) find below my finished product and tell me what you think
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0ByHRpUYW6UWSYkp6U2swc1dYNGs/edit?usp=sharing
Please note each console has a variance of up to 003.0 on damage figures (something I have yet to find a fix for)