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bug ship v fleet patrol escort
lascaille
Member Posts: 78 Arc User
first of all, sorry for not using the actual jemhadar qq thread. but for my taste there is meanwhile too much flaming.
//disclaimer: yes, i have a bug ship and i will not change to the fleet patrol. i try to maximize my damage output while i have a high survivability. concerning this, and the bo setup i am using, the bug ship is my first choice.
in the other thread, a lot of people compare the bug ship and the fleet defiant
- in my opinion, the fleet defiant is not the right choice for this comparison. the counterpart should be the fleet patrol. due to the universal ensign, the fleet patrol can have the same bo layout which is normaly used on the bug ship. even though it would be not the best choice in the fleet patrol. a polarize hull or tractor beam used in the ensign universal slot, in addition to epts2 and eptw1 (with 3 damage control doffs) is a good choice too, while you have a better shield energy setting.
some people say, that the bug ship has two lt universal slots.
- this is right. and even though it would be an unwise idea not to use an eng and sci lt in these slots. otherwise the survivability is low
the bug has up to 47000 hull
- the fleet escort can have up to 46850 hull
the bug has the best shields (escort class)
- the shields of the fleet patrol are slightly worse (8114 v 8033)
the bug has the best turn rate
- yes, this is true. with the consoles i am usually using, i have a turn rate of 41.6 deg/sec. with the fleet patrol it is "only" a turn rate of 37.5. to reach this number, i slotted an additional mk12 purple rcs console. if i would use only 3 universal consoles, it should be nearly the same, maybe the fleet patrol would have a slightly better turn rate (couldn't test it, i have only one rcs console)
fleet patrol escort - defense
fleet patrol escort - movement
jhas - defense
jhas - movement
when you want to improve fleet ships, it would be more wiser if all ensign slots would be universal slots. the ship builds would be more varied. especially the fleet defiant would win, since it is sometimes difficult to use 3 tac ensign slots (depending the choice of weapons)
start the discussion, no flaming pls.
//disclaimer: yes, i have a bug ship and i will not change to the fleet patrol. i try to maximize my damage output while i have a high survivability. concerning this, and the bo setup i am using, the bug ship is my first choice.
in the other thread, a lot of people compare the bug ship and the fleet defiant
- in my opinion, the fleet defiant is not the right choice for this comparison. the counterpart should be the fleet patrol. due to the universal ensign, the fleet patrol can have the same bo layout which is normaly used on the bug ship. even though it would be not the best choice in the fleet patrol. a polarize hull or tractor beam used in the ensign universal slot, in addition to epts2 and eptw1 (with 3 damage control doffs) is a good choice too, while you have a better shield energy setting.
some people say, that the bug ship has two lt universal slots.
- this is right. and even though it would be an unwise idea not to use an eng and sci lt in these slots. otherwise the survivability is low
the bug has up to 47000 hull
- the fleet escort can have up to 46850 hull
the bug has the best shields (escort class)
- the shields of the fleet patrol are slightly worse (8114 v 8033)
the bug has the best turn rate
- yes, this is true. with the consoles i am usually using, i have a turn rate of 41.6 deg/sec. with the fleet patrol it is "only" a turn rate of 37.5. to reach this number, i slotted an additional mk12 purple rcs console. if i would use only 3 universal consoles, it should be nearly the same, maybe the fleet patrol would have a slightly better turn rate (couldn't test it, i have only one rcs console)
fleet patrol escort - defense
fleet patrol escort - movement
jhas - defense
jhas - movement
when you want to improve fleet ships, it would be more wiser if all ensign slots would be universal slots. the ship builds would be more varied. especially the fleet defiant would win, since it is sometimes difficult to use 3 tac ensign slots (depending the choice of weapons)
start the discussion, no flaming pls.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Post edited by lascaille on
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Where is your lockbox god now
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Agree about the patrol and think its great that you brought another ship to the forefront other than the usual suspects. I have the Defiant Retrofit and prefer the Steam runner to it personally, at least in stats. My temp destroyer is a great alternative to the bug though and has performed wonders for me in PVP.
Well, you know, can't all be peaches and roses. If you want to fly a bug, fly a bug my friend.
My slightly more serious suggestion to people freaking out over the bug would be to invest in a Fleet Saber. In my experience the difference between the two outside of duels is minimal to nil.
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
going at them with 4 DHCs? don't bother trying, you cant keep them on him as easily or as often as he can keep them on you, and thats what maters with just 4 cannons.
I have a bug ship and a mobius,,,i think the mobius is best "all around" escort,,,bug can turn quicker pack more punch,,but mobius can pack more shields and better sci Boff, (although i never equipped the time consoles didnt feel they were worth it, used the slots for other stuff)
Agreed. Never bothered with the time devices either. Some swear by it but I can think of better things to spend the EC on (i.e. Antiproton DHC and Turrets). I have been most successful in this ship than any other in PVP. The second closest for me personally was the Breen Ship.
I don't seem capable of doing much good in either the Defiant or the Steam Runner... which is disappointing because I esp think the Defiant is a great looking ship. That being said... its mobius all the way now...
I'm at a disadvantage, because I had to spend more power to and dedicate a console slot to match your turn rate. Where as, you can use that extra power in other subsystems to help boost your heals or shield resistance. You also have an extra engineering slot for armor/alloy or another universal console slot.
But, whatever, you took the effort to win the lottery. So, you should be entitled to a better ship.
up your exhaust manifold popping you like a virgin on a prom date. :cool:
if i didnt have my bug now i would def still be running my mobius, its a great ship,,4 tac slots,,can equip cannons,,4 sci,,and i think 2 eng so can run 1-2 neutronium as well as bulk up the shields.
Just purchased fleet antiprotons for this! Now if I could only get rid of the ridiculous amount of lag I may be able to get out there and have some fun....
I don't have a Jem, so can't say which is truly better, but I can say that fleet patrol escorts are definitely capable of defeating the Jem escort in 1v1 situations, with the right build. Only time I have problems is when the Jem uses that subvert targeting shield... that shield makes me kick puppies...
Unlikely mate! I wear a femidom at all times!
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Compare JHAS with saber.
@rudiefix Feds: Rudiefix / Thron / Opa
@rudiefix KDFs: Lill / Xifeidur / Dehr / Ugly
@rudiefix Roms (KDF alligned): Chicita
52/30 only? do you know that engine power impact speed, turn rate and defence?
usualy my engine power is about 70-79/50 and shields power is about 50/25
Playing STO spamming FAW is like playing chess using always the computer's suggested moves
3-2-1- Lol!
That whole post is full of win but it took every ounce of my concentration and will to collect myself off the floor to read the rest.
Bravo!
I'll third that. It's definitely not the prettiest girl at the dance but it's fun to fly.
You just summed up my philosophy for dating
While Engine power does indeed affect impulse speed and turn rate, I'm sure you could guess that, while you turn is better, you're also going at a faster forward momentum. Thus, negating in part, if not all, the benefit of having more engine power.
I'd prefer to get as much out of my turn rate with as little increase in my impulse speed as possible. Some people prefer to zip around and try to get out of a target's fore firing arc. That's cool, but it's also a lot of missed opportunities to get your full volley in. I prefer to out of the fore firing arc, reversing, and swinging around (much quicker way to get your target in your fore arc). I used to have problems against escorts with a lot of power in their engines, until I started changing my strategy.
I'm sure you're also aware that shield resistance and regeneration is associated with your power levels. While the latter may not be as important, the former makes a pretty big difference in how much damage you can take before you lose your shields.
Mediocre turn, hull, and shields? The only thing that has better turn rate is a BoP, and they have much lower hull and shields. The Fleet Defiant has lower shields, hull, and turn rate.
And I do not agree that 20 is only barely more than 17. Once you start adding engine speed modifiers, skill points, etc, the difference only gets greater.
Please tell me this is a joke? Because it is the best joke in the world, better than the White Horse Fell in a Mud Puddle joke.
Fourth this vote, I love the little Escort
yes, but you also need speed to reach/follow your opponent... moreover I can reduce speed if I need it.
I know, but I prefer to buff my shield's enery level using EPtS and if you are in a team a good eng with a cruiser can buff your power or extend his shields... You can buff your shields regeneration rate with the appropriate passive of the reputation system.
I can resist for a while if my shields are down, but it's more difficult to resist if someone drain your engine power and stop you.
Playing STO spamming FAW is like playing chess using always the computer's suggested moves
28.36 impulse speed is plenty fast enough to keep up with a lot of ships.
Pick up some engine batteries if you're concerned about stopping. You won't always have your fleet mates with you.
Or, if you insist on keeping your engine power level high, pick up some shield batteries.
The comparison to the Defiant is based on cannon, which leads to my biggest question with the Defiant; why make the enemy vessel so superior to the Federation/home team vessel? This became more puzzling the other day when I learned that the Devs are big DS9 fans. I can understand giving the Bug a uniqueness and a bit better stats for being a lock-box ship, but this ship goes further. I am not calling it an "I Win" button, but a decision maker (by a margin). I have blown up quite a few Bugs in my Defiant but If I could clone myself and duel "Me 1" in a Fleet Defiant and "Me 2" in a Bug, I have zero question who would win. Yes, I have both ships but I mainly fly the Defiant.
We usually hear the 'Well the Defiant can cloak' argument in these discussions. Yeah, the Defiant can cloak, so long as nobody sneezes. For the most part, it's a wasted console spot. It's cooldown is pretty much equal to the respawn button. The other unique ability which the Fleet Defiant was to have is the 5th tac console. That would be cannon as the Defiant has the highest weapons power/strength of all Fed ships (see Memory Alpha). That seems to have been usurped by the F-MVAE, soon to be F-HEC, the JHAS was given it as well, etc.
What I would like to see is the same a few others have proposed as well. Please give it the universal ensign slot. This would allow it to add enough survivability and flexibility to be somewhat competitive in a dogfight with a JHAS. Adding +1 to the base turn of the Fleet Defiant bringing it to a base turn of 18 would be nice as well. It would leave it a safe -2 base turn from the JHAS. Neither of these changes would bring it close enough to the JHAS to be a big threat to Jem Ha'dar sales. There will always be people willing to pay for the best. This would allow those who don't have one or those of us with them who don't want to fly them something somewhat close to compete with. It would also bring it a bit closer to cannon as Nog, the ensign who flew the Defiant (red shirt's job), was an engineer who performed duties from all 3 departments.
In the end though I always compare the JHAS in STO to having a WWII game where the German tank was superior in all specifications to the U.S. one. It just doesn't seem right.
-Maverick/Rhino