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Please let us use Dilithium Ore in fleet projects.
zionlyth
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
This is the main thing that is slowing down the advancement of most fleets. When you look at it logically, ALL other parts of the projects can be filled by grinding and without paying RL money for them.
Our fleet has no problems getting people to do the fleet mark missions, or donating the officers and commodities, however we cannot donate as much Dilithium as we'd like simply because it requires real life time to pass to be refined.
I guess this is not a problem for huge fleets or those on low tiers, however once you get into tier 4-5 projects, some take over a million refined Dilithium and although we can grind it out it still requires us to sit and wait weeks just to refine and dump it.
This is a simple request, and for balance sake please let it only apply to the fleet projects. I'm not asking to be able to use ore for anything else.
Thank you,
Our fleet has no problems getting people to do the fleet mark missions, or donating the officers and commodities, however we cannot donate as much Dilithium as we'd like simply because it requires real life time to pass to be refined.
I guess this is not a problem for huge fleets or those on low tiers, however once you get into tier 4-5 projects, some take over a million refined Dilithium and although we can grind it out it still requires us to sit and wait weeks just to refine and dump it.
This is a simple request, and for balance sake please let it only apply to the fleet projects. I'm not asking to be able to use ore for anything else.
Thank you,
Post edited by zionlyth on
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Comments
The biggest problem with that is those jerks will use the payment information of their customers to commit credit card fraud. This hurts not only the players, but also the companies who run games they use the stolen information with. Why? Because the payment will first be charged back, then the company will have to pay a fine. SOE noted that those fines can run over a million dollars!
Secondly, while well intentioned, this would put small and casual fleets at a further disadvantage compared to large ones. Remember - not everyone in a fleet contributes, so at least all fleets have that in common. But efficient, enthusiast/hardcore, and large fleets (or combinations thereof) can earn lots of Dilithium Ore. By using raw ore instead of refined ore, they'd be able to rocket ahead even faster!
Casual fleets might not have enough people getting up to the daily refinement limit, nevermind exceeding it, or having a high contribution rate from its members.
There've been suggestions for smaller projects for smaller fleets that are roughly equal to the same time:reward ratio as the current, big projects (although those should give out more due to size/commitment of them). I think that would be the better avenue for addressing the different fleet sizes/participation levels. Certainly, its easier to keep momentum if you're regularly completing projects, and I think having a bunch of smaller projects being done regularly would be better for the morale of small/casual fleets than having big ones that get done very slowly, even if the overall work/effort is actually about the same.
My blog! Zen|Dilithium tracking on Thursdays
http://samonmaui.blogspot.com
As a lifetime member of STO, I officially became a financial liability as of April 2012 when compared to a subscriber.
Although what I propose would also speed up the advancement of larger fleets, I don't think that's a bad idea. If they are willing to quickly grind out the Dil, or have enough members that contribute that's great. However with my request the smaller fleets (with a lot of work), can now also advance their fleet in a timely manner. In addition, it would positively give a reason for people who are hesitant to give away Dil a reason to do so. If you're capped for the day you'll think 'Hey may as well dump it into the fleet'
The reason I don't like the idea that smaller fleets take less resources per project is because it'll create the following problems:
- First fleets will kick out people who are not very active,or don't contribute as much as it's expected. Going on an extended vacation? forget it, your out, you're costing the fleet resources.
-Secondly you'll get a LOT more small fleets with just a few members, or 1 man fleets. This is something I don't consider a positive impact on the game, and I find fleets build a good ingame community presence.
In the end it comes down to Dilithium being the only time capped resource required. One that hurts small fleets, and annoys the bigger ones.
That said, people who aren't contributing aren't costing the fleet anything. Now, they might not be contributing, yes, but they're not costing them any actual resources (unless the fleet has specific requirements on accessing the bank, who gets what, etc).
Actually, I think its best to have a variety of fleet sizes, but that's coming from my experience in other games. Smaller groups are more likely to network, get to know each other better, focus on enjoyable niches, etc. When a fleet gets too large, it can get too impersonal, with new players feeling like cogs in a machine. Also, if a fleet gets really large, they'll be more self-sufficient, removing the need to group with outside fleets, do PUGs, mess around with the market, participate in outside events, etc.
There's definitely roles for larger fleets, don't get me wrong, and they can be great! But fleets are not one-size fits all, and I personally see nothing wrong with one person fleets.
Its time capped, true, but at the same time so is a player's ability to earn Energy Credits and buy resources via Replicator, Vendor, or Consignment House. Many players don't know how to make tons of energy credits (hell, I've frequently have more EC than my entire fleet bank!). Likewise, many players either don't want to give up their DOFFs for fleet projects or don't even participate in DOFFing. Earning Fleet Marks is another area that can be time limited, practically speaking.
Part of the issue is that what the devs want/need and what the players want/need aren't the same. There's definitely a Time Vs Reward aspect here - the devs simply do not want us to burn through all Fleet Projects quickly - they're supposed to "keep us busy" for months, being long term goals. Even if you got past the obstacle of Dilithium costs, there's the built-in time gates for all the projects to complete (likely put in there for the super-large and/or super-efficient fleets).
As is, the current costs and completion times prolongs how long it takes to do the projects, get tiered up, etc. This in turn helps keep queues for all the various Dilithium and Fleet Mark activities pretty busy. The sooner everyone finishes or reaches a level they feel they're happy with, the less people will be running stuff. And in a race to develop new content versus players devouring it? The players win, every time, unless the devs put in grinding/time sinks.
Of course, this is why I keep asking/suggesting that the devs put in more sandbox elements into the game. There are a good number of sandbox MMOs out there where there's very little (or even no) PVE content provided by the devs - the players and their interactions are what drive the game. And STO definitely needs more of that, IMO.
My blog! Zen|Dilithium tracking on Thursdays
http://samonmaui.blogspot.com
As a lifetime member of STO, I officially became a financial liability as of April 2012 when compared to a subscriber.
In my current Fleet, the only thing I ever contribute is EC-bought things. So, we need a couple thousand of X? I'll buy them. So far I've contributed tens of millions to my fleet this way. Dilithium and Fleet Marks? I almost never contribute the stuff, but the rest of the fleet does. My fleet leader has told me a few times we've actually outpaced fleets larger than us! Granted, a lot of them are efficient players, do Elites with all optionals, figure out the optimal way to do all these things, etc. Fun bunch
My blog! Zen|Dilithium tracking on Thursdays
http://samonmaui.blogspot.com
As a lifetime member of STO, I officially became a financial liability as of April 2012 when compared to a subscriber.
But if they make projects scale to fleet size it WILL happen. That's because a fleet with 10 players and 8 contributing will have it much easier than a fleet with 200 people and 8 contributing. That means fleet leaders are going to want to slim the fleet down to only those who contribute, otherwise they are making it harder to progress.
Credits are not capped. Yes you can only make so much in an hour but you can keep making them over and over and over all day long. Same for doffs. You can make a certain amount a day, but you can also buy them from the auction, and you are not limited to how many you can turn in to the fleet.
This is true, but keep in mind I'm not asking them to remove dilithium from projects. Your fleet will still have to grind all that ore. All this removes is a pointless limitation put in place so that there isn't too much dilithium flooding the zen conversion market.
This in theory can already happen. Once someone has 100000s od dilithium ore stored up and just waiting months to be converted, they will no longer feel the need to farm it. God knows with the new dilithium vip mining reward from the lock boxes, it takes me about 30 mins a day do get capped on ore, then I no longer feel the need to farm it.
"Everyone needs to contribute their Dilithium quota, or else its out you go!"
I'll agree to disagree on this point. Large or small, there's enough tools and reason to boot players based on contribution to the overall fleet if fleet leaders wanted to. As for scaling? This is what I was thinking (from another thread):
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=7835951#post7835951
You're better off with the bigger projects in terms of resources vs reward, but the smaller ones keeps momentum going, which I think is the biggest problem for many smaller fleets. The big projects are so huge and daunting, many are like, "how are we supposed to put a dent into that?!"
I've got friends in two fleets where its one person carrying the entire fleet base projects. Smaller projects would help encourage the other fleet members to pitch in since its more obvious they're contributing rather than trying to empty the ocean with a mug. Its either that or tell the guy to leave the fleet and go join up with another one.
Practically speaking they're capped. You can't play 24/7. Its not a hard cap, but a "soft" cap. And, either way, its chasing after resources, which is something not all players become proficient at. You also run the risk of turning the game into a grind (ie, doing stuff you don't like). I can make a lot of money on the exchange via DOFFs, except I generally tend to find it boring as all get out. Your ability to earn EC affects your ability to buy commodities, duty officers, etc. Stuff you might well need or want for yourself - do you buy a few thousand of a commodity to clear it off the project? Or do you buy yourself a new piece of equipment for your character, ship, or bridge officers?
Recruiting duty officers is also a time-dependent activity that not everyone enjoys or remembers to do (unless you buy them with money). Also, turning in DOFFs (another thing I generally don't do) reduces your options to do DOFF missions, trade them in via Officer Exchanges, slot them for their abilities in space/ground, or DOFF-pactor them.
Well, either way you'd be keeping the Dilithium out of the market (the flooding was caused by a bunch of exploits/loopholes more than anything). The refinement cap was put in place to keep people from getting Dilithium bought stuff too quickly (which includes Zen), and to reduce the attractiveness/effectiveness of RMT/Spammers in this particular area. Even if you ignored the base yourself, there's still stuff to be bought with Refined Dilithium (including Zen).
Again, there's a distinct Time Vs Reward element here.
True, true. And there are people who ignore it entirely. But, if they can't automatically refine it, then they still have to log in, refine, then pitch in, buy what they want, etc. And, you still would've had to play that much to get such a massive amount there, but actually using it would be dragged out, and other fleet members will still be pitching in since you can't simply blow out every project with your reserves.
So, yes, it can happen in theory. If you could pay it all in raw Ore, you can take it from "in theory" to "in practice." You'd have a good number of fleets that could blow out every project the instance they became available because they're not being slowed down by the refinement limit.
One side effect for larger groups? Man, you could REALLY rake in Fleet Credits. But, if you're earning that much Dilithium, you're probably raking in Fleet Merits and Energy Credits. So, it'd be possible for a small number of contributors to really corner earning Fleet Credits by blowing out all the projects without giving other members a chance to contribute. Arguably, that is one good thing with high project costs and using items that take time to get - it gives more people more opportunities to contribute. Granted, that's more a theoretical problem than anything else...
My blog! Zen|Dilithium tracking on Thursdays
http://samonmaui.blogspot.com
As a lifetime member of STO, I officially became a financial liability as of April 2012 when compared to a subscriber.
- KDF Ambassador Syon vocalizing her objection to the discussions of possible peace talks with the UFP due to recent Borg and Undine activities. Hegh'bat, Stardate 66588.8
I myself can earn silly amounts of ore (not as much as the first guy but enough) and do it with very little effort on my part.
How do you propose that gets slowed down? whats to stop me or him from just one shotting the project cost of our final shipyard?
Or 'hire' a guy to do it like people hire others to dump fleet marks?
Instead why dont we just have 'fleet doff' missions where each person has 1-5 fleet doff slots (depending on base level). They take 1-5 doffs, and place them there. These doffs would in turn earn points to acomplishing the fleets current goal while the player plays/is online, eliminating the need to use dil in the first place (which is a silly idea anyway, seriously, there are a TON of things we can be doing with this stuff)
This would eliminate the need to A) use dil in any form, and
The diffs themselves would earn 1 fleet credit a minute while equipped, 2 for the blue, 3 for the purple.
I'd love to hear more on this idea. That said, I sort of doubt they'll remove the requirement for Dilithium - it seems like they brought about the Z|D exchange with the expectation of Dilithium sinks such as Fleet Projects.
My blog! Zen|Dilithium tracking on Thursdays
http://samonmaui.blogspot.com
As a lifetime member of STO, I officially became a financial liability as of April 2012 when compared to a subscriber.
To be honest they could probably do this AND keep the dil for those people who dont want to wait. the doffs would just count to the total, just a bit slower than dumping it all in there.