T5 fleet shipyards unreachable for new players?

decorayah · February 2013

Hello there. I seem to have a bit of a problem with the Fleet system.

I'm a relatively new player, got my first 50 1-2 months ago. Since then ofc i have been dreaming of having one of those cool ships the vice admirals ride in. I did some research on the ZEN and fleet systems and i'm starting to lose hope.

The ships that require a T5 Shipyard are my main goal. They'r powerful and good looking and have all the cool stuff i'v been wanting to have. But the problem i face is a big one. As far as i know if i join a low lv fleet it would take a lot of time to get it to the stage i desire so the ships i'v been wanting to have become available. Don't get me wrong. If i could play the game many hours a day i wouldn't mind building a fleet from scratch. The reason that's not ideal for me is that i rly don't have that much spare time because of work. When i asked around if someone would take me in a high lvl fleet i got 2 types of responses: " we had to do so much work to get a fleet to that lv and you want to get what we achieved with no effort at all?" and " i can get you what you want for 25mil EC. Whatcha think?"

As a new player that amount of EC is sooo huge. Considering the time i can spare to play the game it would take me forever to grind. The second idea i understand - you can't just trust an outsider with the fleet you invested so much in. He can steal stuff or just get a ship and disappear.

I am rly not that guy. I'm not seeking some dishonest gain or something. I just want to get a cool ship i couldn't otherwise afford considering my free time. Is there rly no fleet that would let me join them? Can i at least try to win their trust before being rejected? Sure i want a ship but it doesn't end there. I will be friendly and helpful to the fullest of my ability but to do that i first need a chance. Is there someone here that can give me that?

wast33 · February 2013

there are fleets who sell ship provisions for much less (or much more with better conditions). you may just keep an eye open and have to wait a while.... you may want to give your @handle, so anyone reading this could respond

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my fleets shipyard is only t2 btw, so i can't help you directly. you may also should consider joining a fleet and contributing for a while before getting able to buy things. it's just normal

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wast33 · February 2013

...+ it's the only way for non-fleet players (who don't want to join ever) to get fleet-ships and an opportunity for the fleets to give rewards to their members.
indeed it's caused by cryptics policy, but i also think there's nothing wrong with it (besides the initially policy, which is now set and to handle).
the provisions fleets are selling were earned over long time and with great sinks, so there's nothing wrong with selling access i guess ^^...
on the other hand: just join and wait to get promoted... got ribbed off? found your own fleet or take your time to look for a proper fleet...
just my 2c

blitzy4 · February 2013

Problem is its really easy to get burned right now..

unknownmccloud · February 2013

I represent the Admiralty of Fleet 01, we are a small fleet, we are just a breath away from rolling over our Starbase to Tier 1, just got our shipyard before that, once the cool down is over we will officially be a Tier 1 starbase holding fleet, so I know how it is and the work involved, we have actually gone from tier nothing to tier one in just a few weeks with a handful of people doing 95% of the contributing and not all of them are even Vice Admiral in game yet (anyone of course is welcome to join us if they so desire)

personally at our fleet all new members are under a probationary period that lasts a minimum of 2 weeks a maximum of 30 days, so that we can tell if the new member is going to be a good match for us and us for them, during that time they are in a "new invite" rank and have EXTREMELY limited access to the fleet bank and any provisioned stores at the star base once we get them. We use Dolby Axon for voice chat and while we dont necessarily require it outright, once that 2 week period is up we do require members to sign up/on we do a brief interview over the voice chat and then assuming that all goes well they are promoted to the first real rank within our fleet, we do not require and mandatory bank contributions, we encourage contributions though to the bank and really really push for everyone to regularly contribute something to the starbase projects esp those no longer in new invite status....that is how we provide ourselves with some protection from anyone looking for a free ride to get some free goodies and then jump ship...you put two weeks of investing into and playing with a fleet under your belt, your a lot less likely to just eat and run.....so far that has worked very well for us

selldur · February 2013

I am a member of a t4 Fleet, that is always taking in new members, you can look at the site at http://tfd.guildlaunch.com/index.php?gid=112099. I like them so far only been with them for about a week so far.

nicha0 · February 2013

I get where most fleets are coming from, ours is at t4 and t5 is a long way away. Why would a fleet with a T5 starbase (which has costs of about $7000 if you used the dil exchange) want to give you something when you didn't help in the least? Does the fleet need you? No, you admittly don't play much, won't contribute nearly anything (not that they have any issue with resources because most fleets at T5 now are huge) and just want the best of the best without any real effort. So if you want the best of the best, you pay up, or you work hard, but the best things in STO life aren't free.

redsnake721 · February 2013

There is a Guy that is always in ESD selling access to his tier 5 shipyard, 40 mil EC

wast33 · February 2013

f2pdrakron wrote: »

Do I think its wrong? Yes because Fleets should be a community ... not a shop, Cryptic turn then into shops were people sell goods, goods they acquired by spending money on them and few have the feeling of sharing something they helped create with their fellow guildmembers ... instead is a good and I should not even go over who actually PAYED for provisions because I am pretty sure some officers that are taking the 25 millions into their accounts payed exactly zero for it.

that's about the fleet's policy itself and how close it works as a micro-community. actually i agree that fleet's not should be "shops", but on the other hand i love that most of the best ships are fleetships. and you just have to play the game to get em, you can't buy em with real money. only with distributions+time, or now sometimes with ec (+fleet credits and fsm in some cases, which are also obtainable with ec...) which also takes time and effort to gain.
actually i build my own starbase with some help of a friend because i don't wanna be in a fleet with people i don't know personally. f.e. i bought the recon-sci-vessel (4tac consoles) from my own t2 shipyard...
so again OP and as stated elsewhere: take your time and look out for proper people to be with, that's the easiest way

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cmdrskyfaller · February 2013

It is game design 101 to not put things impossibly out of reach of new players. Cryptic seems to have ignored this.

So did EVE..and its been bleeding itself to death for years now.

Fleets..fine. Starbases..fine. Social play..fine.

... but making fleet membership mandatory to be able to acquire gear to remain competitive AND making the leveling of said fleets so inanely long and resource consuming PLUS limit fleet sizes? Its idiotic.

In this regard EVE made a much better job. A 'fleet' in Eve can sell its hard earned wares to non-fleet members.

This could be done in STO as well. Simply up the price of fleet stuff significantly and allow it to be sold on the exchange. The cash goes to the fleet bank not in EC's but in dilithium.

Buyer pays in dilithium. Through the exchange.

So, if I wanted to buy a Fleet Nebula I could go to exchange, find one that costs 300k dilithium, pay it and get my ship in a box. The dilithium goes to the fleet that sold it and cannot be withdrawn by a fleet player. It goes into fleet projects 'contribute' system.

Fleets 'build' ships via projects that cost them EC-dilithium-personnel-items.

The same goes for consoles and such.

And again, seeing how EVE's market system works so well, fleets can get significant discounts from constantly upgrading their starbase installations to build specific items. Aka shipyard upgrades reduce cost to make ships. Engineering installations reduce the production and cost time of items, etc,etc.

Its doable with a little work. Problem is Cryptic is a PGI puppet company and the ONLY thing that matters is monetizing not improving the game. All the new content and junk that comes out is focused entirely on that and on creating a market for microtransactions.

latinumbar · February 2013

You should check out the fleet forums here:
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/forumdisplay.php?f=79

There most likely is one that fits your needs. And you are welcome to check out the 44th too. We are more than halfway past T4, and should be at T5 in less than a month. Close enough that you don't have to wait forever, but far enough to give you plenty of time to earn some fleet credits. Website is in my sig.

lancemeszaros · February 2013

There are plenty of fleets that are accepting of new members, you just need to know how to find them. Generally, fleets that are built around shared interests or a community that isn't STO-specific are more easygoing than fleets that are built for the sole purpose of achieving fleet rewards. Just don't be one of those guys that joins, pillages the fleet bank, and leaves.

sumghai · February 2013

I'm of the opinion that the exclusivity of Fleet Ships and Gear is the selling point of the new fleet progression system - the reward for investing in a fleet rather than playing solo (nothing wrong with the latter, mind you). It makes little sense for me for new players to participate in a fleet and yet demand the same gear as fleet-based players - you can't have your cake and eat it too.

I myself want a Fleet Intrepid, and I've got my Fleet Modules and other commodities all lined up - except that my fleet shipyard is still Tier 3. I'll just be patient and help my fleet along with the upgrades.

Of course, ideally, I think there ought to be similar gear for veteran solo players as for fleet players, but perhaps with modifiers specific to both - for instance, elite solo gear could focus on survivability and independent operations, whilst fleet gear could focus on coordinated attacks or AoE support/heals.

nicha0 · February 2013

Our fleet isn't like that either, but if we were t5 and there was this influx of people that want to use our fleet, buy what they want and leave? We might be. We pride our fleet as feeling like a family, we don't need anyone to come in and not be that.

Once you hit a T5 shipyard there is still much to do for the fleet, you have engineering and science and nobody has all 3 yet. Chances are these people will take off, since they are the greedy type anyway.

cmdrscarlet · February 2013

Hold up, the difference between Fleet ships and non-Fleet version is that "fleet ships do not come with a special console but typically have +10% Hull HP, +10% Shields and a 10th console slot." Besides EC cost that's it?

If the ship you want (not need) can only be acquire from a Tier 5 Military starbase, then I suggest the stress is not worth the effort.

At the same time, it's not an impossible goal. Ultimately, you will need to employ some sort of personal honor. In other words, use some etiquette and just a wee bit of patience.

* Look for a Fleet on the forums - don't shop in zone chat, don't accept blind invites
* Once you join one, don't take anything from the Fleet - donate to the Fleet for a certain period of time and a month or two is a good marker of committment I think.
* Be active with the Fleet - the vets who built the base (without you) need to feel comfortable you are not taking advantage of their effort
* Get what you want
* Win the game

After that, you can do what you want with the Fleet. But who knows - you may have actually (omg) made friends and found a great online community that makes your gameplay more rewarding than a single starship.

As William Osler said, "We are here to add what we can to life, not to get what we can from life." I'd suggest the same applies to your situation in an online game.

danny3098 · February 2013

quick solution ...disband your tiny dissmal fleet and join a real one...people w tier 5 shipyards worked hard to acquire them over years sorry u cant join and have a tier 5 fleet 2 weeks later,theres already too many fleets

timelord79 · February 2013

Maybe they should start a Starfleet/KDF reputation line, where you can progress through solo on a similar average investment than a community fleet.
On the factions main base you would find a special ship vendor that sells you stock fleet ships without special skins but comparable stats.

cmdrscarlet · February 2013

@f2pdrakon - Fair enough. I apologize for making the cost argument seem trivial.

Even after your detailed description of cost (your first point), the actual, playable difference (your second and third points) between the two is - in my estimation - not worth the effort.

The rest of my argument, I think, stands on its own: the OP should not be discouraged at the cost or means to get what he wants (a Fleet version of a Tier 5 ship) and that he can get it with dedication and patience.

chillee · February 2013

cmdrscarlet wrote: »

If the ship you want (not need) can only be acquire from a Tier 5 Military starbase, then I suggest the stress is not worth the effort.

At the same time, it's not an impossible goal. Ultimately, you will need to employ some sort of personal honor. In other words, use some etiquette and just a wee bit of patience.

* Look for a Fleet on the forums - don't shop in zone chat, don't accept blind invites
* Once you join one, don't take anything from the Fleet - donate to the Fleet for a certain period of time and a month or two is a good marker of committment I think.
* Be active with the Fleet - the vets who built the base (without you) need to feel comfortable you are not taking advantage of their effort
* Get what you want
* Win the game

After that, you can do what you want with the Fleet. But who knows - you may have actually (omg) made friends and found a great online community that makes your gameplay more rewarding than a single starship.

As William Osler said, "We are here to add what we can to life, not to get what we can from life." I'd suggest the same applies to your situation in an online game.

I concur totally. STO tries to be a true MMO, it still has a ways to go, but the Fleet system encourages that aspect of the game... interaction and shared adventure. While I do the content on my own, I enjoy being a member of a fleet. It is not onerous, and you should enjoy it. I certainly am unable to put dedicated time into the game, but I am committed.

By the way, I love the Osler quote. He was quite a renaissance man, for an internist!

savnoka · February 2013

I still don't see the real need for any of these ships. People talk about being 'competitive', but most people don't PVP that much.

For the effort they cost to reach, they simply aren't worth it. My own fleet Fedside just hit tier 1 shipyards, which are the only ships I was interested in anyway. We might get to tier 2 by the end of this year. My KDF is in a very large fleet but I've only gotten the Fleet Vorcha , and that mostly for looks -- prefer the JHAS and the Destroyers.

That being said, I can't really fault the fleets for charging for access, and without such a carrot would anyone have put all those resources into the SB in the first place?

T5 fleet shipyards unreachable for new players?

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