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Breen torp boat feasible for elitestfs?
cptskeeteruk
Member Posts: 559 Arc User
Duplicate topic as i accidently posted this in fed shipyard and this is for my kdf toon tho i dont see why it would matter but it might anyhow this is what the topic said.
Just wondering if a torp boat would be feasable on my breen ship using my kdf and the kdf space set mk xii.
Using transphasics and other breen weapons like cluster thing and rapid fire and maybe turrets in the back with a cutting beam. Would i be any good dps wise to be heavy hitter and do decent damage compared to 4dhc and turrets setup. Tho i probably expect too much from a torp boat but with the kdf buff to torps, a few projectile doffs and a lt comm sci on a more or less heavy escort i thought maybe i could pull it off.
I want to make the build as best i could to avoid shields i.e the transphasics and maybe plasma burn turrets and a omega and romulan torp when i get around to unlocking em which could be awhile as im low in the rep system for my kdf.
Im really used to dealing massive damage in a short time with my usual builds but fancied a change and thought a torp hull hitter might be an idea on the breen ship.
Anyhow thoughts?
Just wondering if a torp boat would be feasable on my breen ship using my kdf and the kdf space set mk xii.
Using transphasics and other breen weapons like cluster thing and rapid fire and maybe turrets in the back with a cutting beam. Would i be any good dps wise to be heavy hitter and do decent damage compared to 4dhc and turrets setup. Tho i probably expect too much from a torp boat but with the kdf buff to torps, a few projectile doffs and a lt comm sci on a more or less heavy escort i thought maybe i could pull it off.
I want to make the build as best i could to avoid shields i.e the transphasics and maybe plasma burn turrets and a omega and romulan torp when i get around to unlocking em which could be awhile as im low in the rep system for my kdf.
Im really used to dealing massive damage in a short time with my usual builds but fancied a change and thought a torp hull hitter might be an idea on the breen ship.
Anyhow thoughts?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Post edited by cptskeeteruk on
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i havnt parsered my dps but this is what i run on my mirror raptor
Fore -
Dual beam array, Dual heavy cannon, tricobalt torp, tricobalt torp
Aft -
Breen cluster torp, tricobalt mine, tricobalt mine
This thing is great for taking down slow moving or even stationery target
With dispersal pattern 3 on a tac cube i can generally hit for 500k damage from mines then 30-50k from heavy tric on front so the numbers add up and the job gets done
However 4 dhcs is the optimal way to get around the game mechanics so you'll never beat them however this is really fun especially when you drop everything at once with all buffs underneath one of those cube on ECure everything just melts
Happy hunting
This is my opinion you don't have to listen and no one else has to read them these "OPINIONS" are based on my exploits and my learning other people will have their opinions and that's fine just don't knock my way of doing things thanks
Not a shared recharge CD, but they do have a triggered CD.
45s recharge on one.
Firing one triggers a 15s CD on any others.
PWOs reduce recharge CDs, but they do nothing about triggered CDs.
FORE:
2x Dominion Beam Array
Rapid Fire Trans Torp
Breen Cluster Torp
AFT:
2x Dominion Beam Array
Rapid Fire Trans Torp (recently traded this for new BioNeural)
Breen Cluster Torp
2 copies of torpedo spread, Breen Space Set (to boost transphasic damage) four polaron phase modulator
TRUST ME, dps is NOT a problem as attested by many 1st place finishes in SB24 as well as ALWAYS having the aggro in STFs.
Transphasics have major, crippling issues:
1-Their timers are too long.
2-Very low damage.
3-Insufficient shield-bypassing damage.
All three combine to make the transphasic torpedoes into a much less effective weapon than loading photon torpedoes.
The sad thing is, people don't do the math and instead get fooled by what they see in the game as 'raw damage to hull bypassing shields'.
Take 2 photon torpedoes. Put 3 torpedo doffs. Stuff the tac slots with photon tac consoles.
Photons have the highest dps of all torpedoes (quantums have the highest spike dps) because their damage is high and they still have 10% bleedthrough damage. They fire once per second with 3 purple torp doffs.
With such a rate of fire, high damage and 10% bleedthrough they do ALMOST as much bleedthrough damage to a target in 1 minute time than 2 transphasic torpedoes would do.
but wait! did I just say transphasics DO beat photons in shield bypassing damage in one minute??? YES I DID. Photons come extremely close.
.... but the thing is, the Photon's much higher refire rate and higher damage do something the transphasics dont: They hurt shields. A LOT.
So, while a transphasic does , say, 40% hull damage to a ship via shield bypassing and leaves the target's shields mostly intact, a photon setup will inflict 35% hull damage and knock the shields out.
...and you know what happens when the shield drops and theres a photon torpedo already flying to it?
Why..yes... you guessed right. The hull goes to 0 or near 0 in one hit.
That is where the transphasics FAIL horribly. Any damage they have done through the shields is left in the dust by just ONE photon torp striking the bare hull. And mind you, that one photon ALWAYS hits the hull.
....and it hits the hull in half the time it takes for the transphasics to do their 40% hull damage. Refire rate works against the transphasic torp here. Before the transphasic does that 40% the photon has ripped the shield and thumped the hull out of existence.
finally,
The breen cluster torp is not a transphasic torpedo. Its a mine delivery weapon.
Transphasic mines do have effective shield penetration % to make them worthwhile.
wow....looks like i need another one of those. with my torpedo boat setup...ill have a cluster torp crapping out every 15 seconds
As for Insufficient shield-bypassing damage, how is around 2,200 damage per shot to hull with shields up for torpedoes and around 15,000 for the cluster insufficient shield-bypassing damage?
A lot of what you posted is wrong and you never mentioned Rapid Fire Transphasics. 1 of my Transphasics torpedo does at much hull damage as around 5 photon shots. Only I can shoot 5 Transphasics torpedo's in the time it takes to shoot 5 Photon shots. So how can you say there is only a 5% hull damage difference ?
Cluster can do do over 15,000 damage to hull with shields up, or 30,000+ on crit. Rear mines have 80% shield penetration. How is that to low shield penetration?
EDIT: Something else you forgot, you can use Attack Pattern Beta lower hull resistance by up to 50% then hit with Transphasic. You can sometimes kill the targetwith Transphasic before photons have even taken the shields down.
--I don't remember well if the breen cluster torp uses the mine penetration calculations or the torpedo one. I think they did change it to use the torpedo damage calcs since the thing drops like 10 mines. Essentially each mine is the equivalent in dmg of half a transphasic torp..so using it is like 6 regular transphasics hitting the target at once. Its not a bad torpedo.. I actually use it on my b'rel since it does not consume my boff torp abilities and delivers good damage... but the delay to refire is horrid.
--A 50% resist boosts the photon bleedthrough as much transphasic. You also are giving up a dmg boost in the triple digits (atk omega) to gain a 50% resist debuff.
--I have a KDF character that is 100% torpedo skill-set kit for the B'rel Retrofit.
KHG 2-piece bonus mk 11
Omega deflector mk12
Three purple torpedo reduction doffs.
Stats for Transphasic Rapid Refire Torp:
With 3 transphasic mk11 blue tac consoles.
Rapid refire transphasic torpedo mk 11
Stats when ship is in space, no tac buffs at all:
=4,269 dmg
= 40% bleedthrough
= 8 second recharge.
Photon: (with 3 mk11 blue photon tac consoles)
Using Borg Photon torpedo mk11:
= 6,040 dmg
= 10% bleedthrough
= 6 second recharge
*** Do note there are insanely better damage photon torps available..mk 12's, fleet mk12's, etc. There is only one mk11 rapid refire transphasic!
Firing tests to see the refire delay between doff timer reduction procs:
When it is triggered with the Transphasic each torp fires every 3 seconds.
When it is triggered with the Photons each torp fires every second.
This was tested firing 1 torpedo on autofire. It roughly triggered the proc every 4 shots.
When autofiring two torps the proc rate changed dramatically in favor of the photons. Their much higher rate of fire had them proc'ing the 1 second refire almost once every 2 shots.. because when it triggered once it would basically fire three photons in a 1 second delay (photon that proc'd it+next photon 1 second later+first photon firing again since it has the reduction from the proc) which , if the proc rate was one in 4 shots and dropped to 1 in 2 shots you literally had the photons proc'ing themselves like a machine gun BECAUSE of the proc-enhanced refire rate triggering more procs. (say that fast 10 times
Transphasics on the other hand, with 2 torpedoes the procs came in at a glacial rate in comparison. With a single proc the torp went into a 3 second delay... which means that one torpedo fired, triggered the 1 second global cooldown and then had to wait two more seconds for the second torpedo to fire. When it fired, the first transphasic also had a 2 second delay before IT fired again. The proc rate chances for that are practically half or even a third of what dual photons can put out.
What this means is that in practical applications, the 2-photon torpedo setup fires three times more torpedoes than a 2-transphasic torpedo set.
Then you have another factor working against transphasics and for the photon: The damage multipliers of high yield/spread are a bit over 2 times higher for photons than transphasics.
High Yield 2 photon = 5167 x 3 torpedoes.
High Yield 2 transphasics= 2802 x 3 torpedoes.
So, 15k~ damage vs ~9k damage.
This is merely the boost from high yield 2.. there is no atk pattern involved.
So here we go. Do the math.
Regular fire transphasic torp 4269 = 1707 @ 40% bleedthrough damage.
Regular fire photon torp 6040= 604 @ 10% bleedthrough damage.
Photons fire almost 3 times faster in a dual torp setup with doff procs. Ergo, in the time the transphasics fire twice the photons have fired 5 times. Add it up.
1707 x 2 = 3414
604 x 5 = 3020
Hence why I say the photons do practically ALMOST as much damage as the transphasics.
Now, however, the damage the photons deliver onto the shields is just absurdly massive compared to the wimpy transphasic shield damage.
I do take down shields with photons quite easily in one pass with dual high yield attacks and thing is, once I fire those high yields my photons follow up with two or three normal photon torps 1 second after I fire the high yields. That means the shield is DOWN plus the bleedthrough damage they do and then a pair of photons hit the naked hull.
That right there..Ive done more hull damage than transphasics would do in nearly 30 seconds of bleedthrough damage.
...and geez this is not even counting the high crit rate of photons (due to refire rate) or atk pattern damage bonus or from-stealth ambush bonus, etc etc.
The only.. the ONLY time I've seen transphasics as being worth using is when fighting the Borg Queen. Her shields are horribly hard to bring down and transphasics beat the crud out of her with shield bypassing damage. Only this, one particular instance are transphasics worth it. I carry my transphasic torps and consoles with me into this STF; use my regular torpedo setup and switch to the transphasics when the queen comes out.
A 50% debuff gives a larger triple digit damage boost then Omega gives. Lowering an NPC?s resistance is the same as a damage boost. If an NPC is on 0% resistance and you lower resistance by 50% then you get a 50% damage boost.
I did some testing and Omega provides less overall damage from the point of view of takeing hull down. You stack two torpedo spreads, hit Attack pattern beta, fire both transphasic spreads and every single target takes 50% extra hull damage per torp. That is what around 30,000 none critical damage to hull in the first volley with shields up to a group of NPC?s. More if you factor in a cluster torpedo shot.
Like I said before you have the wrong bleedthrough numbers. I do around 2200 to 2400 bleedthrough but let?s pick the lower number.
Trans 2,200 x 2 = 4,400
Photon 604 x 5 = 3,020
Now let?s do it with attack pattern beta which is +50% damage.
Trans 2,200 x 2+50% = 6,600
Photon 604 x 5+50% = 4,530
But Photons do not fire x3 faster so in fact Photons are even further behind. A more realistic in game number is
Trans 2200 x 2+50% = 6,600
Photon 604 x 3+50% = 2,718
So Transphasic are doing around 2.5 times more damage to hull per shot with shields up. By the time Photons have taken down shields Transphasic are already deep into the hull if the target is not already dead.
Lots of testing by lots of people has shown two 8 second torpedoes with 3 purple doffs fire at pretty much the same speed as two photons. Photons firing every second is faster than the max fire rate.
Also without the trigger two rapid fire Transphasic fire every 4 seconds on average. So how are you only getting 3 second with a trigger?
That is wrong as anyone testing this can see 2 photons do not fire x3 faster than 2 rapid fire Transphasic with doffs. There might be a small difference but it is more like x1.1 perhaps x1.2 faster for Photons. Not x3 faster.
The way it works is with 8 second torpedoes you fire the first shot and get 3 trigger chances, fire the 2nd shot and get 3 trigger chances. If a single trigger happens all torpedoes are now at max fire rate and you get 6 more trigger chances. Due to the high chance of a trigger you almost always get 1 trigger out of 6 chances.
But they do not as your math is wrong. You have the wrong bleedthough and the wrong fire rate. Photons do not fire x3 faster and Transphasic do more Bleedthough then you used. You also did not factor in useing x2 rapid fire Transphasic with x1 or x2 Cluster.
All this is mute anyway. The argument is are Transphasic feasible and the answer is yes. You keep saying no but you have not proven that. Everything points to them being perfectly feasible. Just like Photons are feasible even though they are worse.
Also x2 quantums beat out x2 Photons for DPS damage. Not just spike but overall constant DPS. Photons are the worst choice for a torpedo boat unless you have the Photon defense console. You are far better off picking quantums for raw damage or transphasic or Plasma for bleedthough.
3x Transphasic Torps (Not the rapid-fire ones), 1x Transphasic Cluster Torp
3x Turrets (something with disruptor proc to lower resistance), 1x Kinetic Cutting Beam [or go 4x Turrets here if you please]
3x PWO
Run 2 copies of Torp Spread (TS3+TS1 is pretty great). Other tac skills should be a copy of TT (if you're gonna do eliteSTFs) and one or two attack pattern betas.
All your tac consoles should be transphasic consoles. Fit the 2-piece KHG/Adapted MACO for the +25% bonus. Also if you can afford it use the Rule62 console from the Lobi store. The borg and rom consoles will boost your crit rate/crit damage a bit. So will the TCC if you can afford it in the lobi store.
Seriously, some of this "advice" .. wtf.
He's dead, Jim.
Now, an MVC is useful because as a battlecruiser it has a solid turn rate, a good boff layout, and four weapons fore and aft.
You definitely want to be running (if you have it) the borg console, the cutting beam, and the cluster torp, a Hargh Peng (which doesn't share global cooldown with other torps), and one of the rep system plasma torp launchers- either the omega torp for the 3 piece set bonus, or the romulan torp for being able to unleash an unending stream of plasma doom.
Actually you could really stand to mount both, in the following config:
Fore:
Romulan Hyper Plasma, Hargh Peng XI, Breen Cluster Torpedo, [torp of your choice here. Tricos are good, as are either the bioneural torp or the temporal disruptor if you have it].
Aft:
Borg Cutting Beam, Omega Plasma torp launcher, Fleet Trico Mine, Trico/Bioneural torp.
With this setup, dispersal pattern beta 3, Torp High Yield 3, and the like, you can spit out a constant stream of damage- particularly with the plasma torps which will just spew out constantly.