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Keeping/Making Mirror Ships Desirable
leviathan99
Member Posts: 7,747 Arc User
As time goes on and fleets progress, the Mirror ships are considerably less novel and intriguing, both past and present variations. They're increasingly running into BO layouts that can be had elsewhere and 10 console ships are getting considerably easier and more common as fleets progress.
At the same time, they're supposed to be easy to get "consolation prizes" for lockboxes.
I just think they need to be more interesting.
So here's my suggestion:
1) Lower the shield modifier by 0.1 on Mirror ships. Increase the weapon power bonus by 5 and turnrate by 2. It's still not on par with a 10 console ship but it's interesting.
There are two IP precedents for the higher turnrate.
- "Shattered Mirror" had a variety of ships bobbing and weaving around DS9's pylons.
- "Shattered Universe" was a high turnrate rail shooter in the Mirror Universe:
http://youtu.be/9eHELQcY1-U
http://youtu.be/Sev9UhcTvxM
2) Introduce weapons that can be equipped only by Mirror Ships by by any mirror ship. My inclination would be to make this include:
Relatively cheap Phasers/Disruptors with reversed procs, only usable on MU ships.
And a set usable on any ship but with a bonus when used on Mirror ships:
Terran Quad Cannons (Unique equip; phaser energy type with Disruptor proc, stat bonus when used on Mirror ship)
Terran Theta Radiation Vent Console (Same as regular TR Vent, bonus damage when used on mirror ship)
Terran-Adapted Suliban Cloaking Device
Starship Stealth
-5% Current Shield Power per sec
-5% Crew per sec
10% Chance of failure per second (Non-Mirror, Non-Suliban Ships only)
+50% Defense
After Decloaking, +15% Damage Bonus for 5 sec
At the same time, they're supposed to be easy to get "consolation prizes" for lockboxes.
I just think they need to be more interesting.
So here's my suggestion:
1) Lower the shield modifier by 0.1 on Mirror ships. Increase the weapon power bonus by 5 and turnrate by 2. It's still not on par with a 10 console ship but it's interesting.
There are two IP precedents for the higher turnrate.
- "Shattered Mirror" had a variety of ships bobbing and weaving around DS9's pylons.
- "Shattered Universe" was a high turnrate rail shooter in the Mirror Universe:
http://youtu.be/9eHELQcY1-U
http://youtu.be/Sev9UhcTvxM
2) Introduce weapons that can be equipped only by Mirror Ships by by any mirror ship. My inclination would be to make this include:
Relatively cheap Phasers/Disruptors with reversed procs, only usable on MU ships.
And a set usable on any ship but with a bonus when used on Mirror ships:
Terran Quad Cannons (Unique equip; phaser energy type with Disruptor proc, stat bonus when used on Mirror ship)
Terran Theta Radiation Vent Console (Same as regular TR Vent, bonus damage when used on mirror ship)
Terran-Adapted Suliban Cloaking Device
Starship Stealth
-5% Current Shield Power per sec
-5% Crew per sec
10% Chance of failure per second (Non-Mirror, Non-Suliban Ships only)
+50% Defense
After Decloaking, +15% Damage Bonus for 5 sec
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If you have 4 modules, a packed mirror ship, and a Fleet shipyard that has acces to the prime variant of the ship you should be able to get a fleet mirror ship.
4 ship modules + any non fleet ship = extra hull an one extra console slot.
I'd be pretty happy with that and probably upgrade a lot of ships.
That wouldn't work for KDF ships, as the reason to use a mirror KDF ship over regular one would be for the different layout. Using the mirror skin on a fleet voquv would still mean it has the prime universe boff layout instead of the mirror boff layout which is what I would want.
They already have this.
+1
I know more than a few mirror uni fans that would appreciate this haha
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Lockbox > mirror > normal starfleet designs...
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Role Playing as a Terran
Or if you have a F2P account and don't want to pay 120k Dill to change ships.
All my toons on my LTS Account fly C-Store Ships and all Toons on my F2P Account all fly the Breen ship. (They all flew MU ships until Christmas)
Well... My Engi alt normally flies a Star Cruiser. I have an MU Assault Cruiser on the same alt, which gives me an identical ship with a different layout.
THAT, for me, is the reason to want to fly an MU ship. I can swap them out for different activities and aside from a minor name difference it looks like I'm flying the same ship.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
- Damn the torpedos! Full speed ahead!
Yes my tac captain still maintains those same 2 mu cruisers as well as a deep space science one as well. And i still love those ships and use them even though i have store and fleet ships. The cruisers just look badass compared to the normal starfleet cruiser appearance.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Mirror Qin - the En Eng makes more sense to me than a third En Tac. I see it as a better ship than the Qin.
Mirror Vor'cha - a cheap BC for a second ship where I find the En Sci can work as well for me as the En Tac of the Vor'cha Retrofit. For me, it's actually the better ship.
Mirror DSSV - less hull and crew but better turn/maneuverability. The RSV kitbash. Meh...I prefer the RSV skin, but...meh. I also prefer the RSV BOFF layout.
Mirror RSV - more hull and crew but less turn/maneuverability. The DSSV kitbash. Meh...I prefer the RSV skin, so...meh. Double meh, since I prefer the RSV BOFF layout anyway.
Mirror Assault - more crew and Star Cruiser kitbash. Um...yeah, meh. I prefer the Assault skin. So uh, yeah, uh...meh. I prefer the BOFF layout, but I don't want to fly the rubber chicken.
Mirror Star - less crew and Assault Cruiser kitbash. If I were to think about flying a Star Cruiser, I'd fly the Mirror Star to get the Assault Cruiser kitbash...even losing the 200 crew.
Okay, so a quick recap.
Mirror Qin and Mirror Vor'cha - actual different BOFF layouts. Sure, it's just an En - but it's different.
Mirror DSSV and Mirror RSV - different kitbashes and different crew/hull/maneuverability.
Mirror Assault and Mirror Star - option to fly a Star without looking like a rubber chicken (or if you like gag chickens, the option to fly an Assault that looks like one).
KDF ships are actually different. Fed ships mostly just look different. Costumes...meh. If somebody liked a look of a ship and wanted to fly two different ships with the same skin - tada, they're golden. If you don't like the look of a ship or a BOFF layout, then you might think it pointless.
What about the new Mirror ships? Mirror Advanced, Mirror Patrol, and Mirror Vo'quv?
Mirror Advanced: +1 turn rate and Patrol kitbash. To me, a better looking and better turning Advanced. A better ship...but I prefer the Patrol to Advanced, so it's moot.
Mirror Patrol: -1 turn rate and Advanced kitbash. To me, a worse turning and worse looking Fleet. A worse ship...and considering I prefer the Patrol, just not going to happen. Moot.
Mirror Vo'quv: +5 weapon power, Lt Eng instead of Lt Sci, +1 Eng console and -1 Sci console. Oh...another KDF Mirror ship that I feel is better than the original.
Obviously the KDF Mirror ships are a matter of opinion - it's no different than looking at Star vs. Assault, Patrol vs. Advanced, or DSSV vs. RSV. Oh wait, that's the major difference between them, eh?
The KDF Mirror ships are actual different ships - in the way the Star and Assault are different, the Patrol and Advanced are different, and the DSSV and RSV are different.
The KDF Mirror ships are along the lines of if the Feds had the Star, Advanced, and DSSV...and Cryptic added the Assault, Patrol, and RSV.
The Fed Mirror ships...costumes. If you like a BOFF layout and prefer the other costume, you can now do that! Um yay! Meh...
Course, when they get around to doing the Mirror Defiant to go with the Mirror Negh'var...things might get interesting, eh?
Just my 2 EC... I know folks obviously see this differently.
I just think they should feel different.
We now have Terran ships sharing the EXACT SAME BO and console layout as regular ships. (The MU Patrol Escort -- a Prometheus -- has the standard Patrol Escort config. Exactly. The only difference is it's one turnrate less and can use MVAM console.)
I just think the addition and subtraction of stats is one way to keep it fresh.
Trading shield mod for turnrate strikes me as the kind of aggressive approach that would make sense in the MU and it makes ships feel different, even if the console layouts are the same. It doesn't make them fleet tier or above regular tier ships if balanced right.
The idea is just to have some signature mechanical costs and benefits so that the sum total of the difference isn't just BOff layout and console layout. Because those will be represented by other ships, particularly with all the ships that have universal BOff slots now.
I think, ideally, each ship in the game would have a totally unique set of stat bonuses so that even identical BO loadout and consoles don't make them identical. But since that's pretty unlikely, I'd at least like it if mirror ships had noticeably different base stats in some way.
It could be something like:
-5 to Aux, +5 to Weapons
-0.1 to shields, +2 to turnrate
I just feel like if you have a MU ship with the same console and BOff loadout as a regular ship, it should still feel different.
I don't really get the feeling Cryptic treats turn as a hard metric for balance, considering that it gets raised and lowered frequently in testing and they set it based on what "looks" right to them. And they've added turn to ships pretty much purely as a sales point.
I think, for them, the main balance consideration is BOs/Consoles.
Then there's plenty of room for fudging mods. I'd say that statistical balance is no measure of balance, really, given the situational nature of gameplay.
If it's even roughly balanced, 0.10 less shields mods and +2 turnrate is going to be more powerful only in the right hands. If it is a benefit, it's not a benefit that can be exploited without skill...
And, really, I think it's only a PvP imbalance in a very isolated number of matches.
Throw PvP out as a consideration and it won't make even a second's difference. It will just change the flow of combat.
Now, look at PvP as an afterthought and 0.10 shield mod versus 2 turnrate is still only going to make a difference in closely matched battles between fairly skilled competitors where NEITHER ONE has a Fleet or Lockbox grand prize ship.
So you're talking about PvP (20% of total gameplay from Cryptic's perspective, maybe? On a good day?), highly skilled (maybe 20% of that), closely matched (maybe 20% of that)... And that's maybe 0.8% of total gameplay without even considering how rare it would be for neither side to have a fleet or lockbox ship.
That's the kind of situation that Cryptic shouldn't even be balancing for.
As I posted in the Dev Blog thread:
So, stating that the Mirror Escorts have +1/-1 Turn Rate is inaccurate, as is the claim that the Mirror Vo'quv has extra Weapon Power. Their non-Mirror counterparts have these same stats, and have since about April of 2012, but their descriptions did not properly reflect their in-game performance.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
Thanks for that.
Heh, furthers the costume side for the Fed Mirrors...but still leaves me happy about the Mirror Vo'quv and other KDF Mirrors.
Oh...and...down the line? C'mon... Mirror Defiant and Mirror Negh'var. 4th Anniversary? There's a great story in there about Mirror Defiant and Mirror Negh'var fighting.
The funny part is based on stats I read they are pretty much the same as the original just that it offers new ways of setting up a vo'quv. It would be kinda cool if the T5 shipyards had fleet mirror ships too.
I really would like to see what a Mirror Universe version of our Fleet Starbases looks like.
I'd hesitate to say it's technically possible but something like the ability to travel to our Fleet's MU counterpart base would be VERY cool.
Maybe make MU infiltration a T5 Starbase project.
The MU version would have distorted versions of all the projects completed, fleet upgrades of the MU weapons, a second Officer of the Watch daily, and vendors who sell Fleet upgrades of MU ships (discounts for ones you own), MU Fleet Weapons, and MU Odyssey outfits.
Maybe have the project take Lobi as an input? Actually, that would probably mess up the dilithium exchange pretty badly. Better would be if it took:
- Fleet Marks
- Boxes containing MU ships
- Terran Duty Officers (These are in game. They're acquired from maxing out Diplomacy and completing opposite faction clusters.)
I agree with this. Your ideas are sound and fit in with the concept of IDIC. Huzzah to you.