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Forums > Home› Feedback› Federation Discussion

The design of the U.S.S. Kelvin?

kuronyra76kuronyra76 Member Posts: 22 Arc User
edited January 2013 in Federation Discussion
First of all, sorry if My english suck like a Klingon at a peace conference. :)

I've just watched Star Trek from J.J. Abrams again.

And I got a question: Why?
Why isn't the design of the U.S.S. Kelvin available on the game?

http://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/blueprints/sexton/Kelvin0514-new_schematic.jpg


http://www.treksinscifi.com/trekdaily/pictures/2008-12-28-USS_Kelvin.jpg

Currently, we already have the very first Enterprise Ship design (from Star Trek: Enterprise.)

And also the Constitution class...

But almost every ship of the federation are just the typical two pylon, and a saucer...

No just "One pylon" under or upper the ship.


There should be design like this on the game, could bring more diversity, and maybe new class of ship why not?


Just interest in this design, feel free to tell your opinion about it. :)
Post edited by kuronyra76 on
«134

Comments

  • anazondaanazonda Member Posts: 8,399 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    While technically the Kelvin class could be considered part of the prime universe, since it was build before Nero messed it all up, there is still the issue of CBS owning the licence that STO is part of, but Paramount still owns the movies, so Cryptic can't really use it without some hard prices payed.

    Also, you will find that JJ-Verse stuff dosen't really go that well around here.
    Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
    pwebranflakes wrote: »
    Let me put the rumors to rest: it's definitely still the C-Store (Cryptic Store) It just takes ZEN.
    Like Duty Officers? Support effords to gather ideas
  • kuronyra76kuronyra76 Member Posts: 22 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Why? Because the story is on another dimension?
    Because this guy isn't a very good "moviemaker"?


    Clearly the movie isn't good has the other one. Still if you look on the design of ship. There is excellent idea.

    No need to actually "copy" design.

    http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/201/federationdesign.png/

    Just a little idea I've got.

    The saucer got the two pylon directly on his back, and on the upper section of the saucer.

    On the under section of the saucer, you've got the hangar bay, like the one got the U.S.S. Enterprise.

    Just a little idea, but....
  • anazondaanazonda Member Posts: 8,399 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    If you read my message, you will see that the main problem is the licence... not the ship.

    As I said, since the Kelvin was build before Nero joined the alternate timeline, it's technically canon, and not an issue on that point...

    But yes... it was a very bad movie.
    Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
    pwebranflakes wrote: »
    Let me put the rumors to rest: it's definitely still the C-Store (Cryptic Store) It just takes ZEN.
    Like Duty Officers? Support effords to gather ideas
  • galr25galr25 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    It's only a bad movie if you don't allow yourself to have liberal open mind about things (kind of part of the basis of ST) , end of the day if they went down the line of Nemesis went down only die hard fans would of go out to the cinema and more people would of watched it online illegally because the didn't see the worth in spending money due to the so called disappointment Nemesis was.

    The film its self has however changed everything , yet as its created a new reality it has also preserved everything what is, was and will be. Before may 2009 if you mentioned star trek many reactions where "oh that's rubbish" or "ahh geek" yet now its "oh ye i saw the film was quite good didn't think i could like sci-fi, do you think i should watch older stuff" come back weeks later grateful for directing them to the older stuff with a totally new idea about sci-fi and Prime trek because of the window opened by 2009 trek. I'm not just talking of one person i know either i mean many i know and i'm sure its same case for many other people.

    You can winge and moan or take what you get and say "ye not way i'd like to see it but man i'm glad star trek is back in the lime late and in heads of TV people and the public."

    I'm pretty sure its got people to think "oh i'll give that a play" about STO thus creating more money to develop STO for all of us here.

    Role on 17th May 2013!
  • kuronyra76kuronyra76 Member Posts: 22 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    The licence control the "canon" ship right?

    But what about other's created for the game?
    The odysse for example is made for the game right?


    So what about non canon design for ship with another "set: dual pylon + saucer"?
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    The problem I have with the Star Trek movie is that the director is too egocentric. Recreating Kirk's story implies that Abrams doesn't like the lore of Star Trek and wanted to create his own.

    Unless we can find the U.S.S. Kelvin in a technical manual used by Star Trek and has the same design as the movie before the movie was being developed, then it is not available for Cryptic to use unless they get Paramount's permission which is highly unlikely.
  • kuronyra76kuronyra76 Member Posts: 22 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Wrong, recreating another story doesn't mean he didn't liked the first one.
    If he didn't, he wouldn't have made this movie.

    On the contrary, he tried to respect the character's and just wanted to give "fresh air" to the Franchise.

    But this isn't exactly the subject of the thread.
  • undyingzeroundyingzero Member Posts: 313 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    starkaos wrote: »
    The problem I have with the Star Trek movie is that the director is too egocentric. Recreating Kirk's story implies that Abrams doesn't like the lore of Star Trek and wanted to create his own.

    Unless we can find the U.S.S. Kelvin in a technical manual used by Star Trek and has the same design as the movie before the movie was being developed, then it is not available for Cryptic to use unless they get Paramount's permission which is highly unlikely.

    This is really absurd. Egocentric? No one but hardcore Trek fans know about Kirk anyways, so him making a movie of the TOS crew just means he's bringing their image back. And so what? How many Trekkies dislike certain things in movies/series and decide to ignore it and make their own canon? How is J.J. Abrams any different?
  • anazondaanazonda Member Posts: 8,399 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    galr25 wrote: »
    ~snip

    Actually I was bored out of my skull when I watched it. That's why I think it's a bad movie.
    Boring story = Bad movie to me.
    kuronyra76 wrote: »
    The licence control the "canon" ship right?
    ~snipped the rest

    I don't entirely understand the complexities of the whole licence deal... But as I understand it it works somewhat like this:

    If it is anything that was shown in any of the 5 series, or the first 10 movies and certain books (such as the Titan series/Luna-class), it's fair game for Cryptic, because CBS had the licence for all of those (if memory serves), But the new movies (2009 and the upcoming one) are no-go, because they arent included into the licence CBS aquired.

    However, there are several examples from soft canon that could probably be applied into STO with little work and licence issues.

    Of cause they could always come up with their own ideas as well.
    Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
    pwebranflakes wrote: »
    Let me put the rumors to rest: it's definitely still the C-Store (Cryptic Store) It just takes ZEN.
    Like Duty Officers? Support effords to gather ideas
  • kuronyra76kuronyra76 Member Posts: 22 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    anazonda wrote: »
    Actually I was bored out of my skull when I watched it. That's why I think it's a bad movie.
    Boring story = Bad movie to me.

    Did Avatar was bad for you? :p



    I understand for the license. Still, they are able to create there "own" vessel design right?
    Could be an idea to go on that sort of design.
    Because I remember after seing the cruiser line of ship.


    It's almost everytime exactly the same stuff. 2 Nacelle, 1 saucer. And it was boring for me.

    Got the impression it was almost everytime the same ship I got...
  • anazondaanazonda Member Posts: 8,399 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    kuronyra76 wrote: »
    Did Avatar was bad for you? :p

    I did'n watch avatar...

    I understand for the license. Still, they are able to create there "own" vessel design right?
    Could be an idea to go on that sort of design.
    Because I remember after seing the cruiser line of ship.


    It's almost everytime exactly the same stuff. 2 Nacelle, 1 saucer. And it was boring for me.

    Got the impression it was almost everytime the same ship I got...

    As I said, there is precedence for soft canon ships with just one nacelle, and 3-4 nacells...

    There is no reason they could not work in getting approval from CBS to design new ships of theese layouts.
    Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
    pwebranflakes wrote: »
    Let me put the rumors to rest: it's definitely still the C-Store (Cryptic Store) It just takes ZEN.
    Like Duty Officers? Support effords to gather ideas
  • misterde3misterde3 Member Posts: 4,195 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    The license to the shows and the first 10 movies is held by CBS, the license to the 11th movie (and the upcoming 12th) is held by Paramount.
    These are two different entities these days so Cryptic can't use their stuff.
    Some elements that are also in the movie like Red Matter can be used because they're not exclusive to that movie but also appeared in the "Countdown" comics.
    However since the Kelvin is exclusive to the movie (along with some other stuff, like the Klingons from the deleted scenes) Cryptic can't use it.
    However there's at least one single-nacelled ship Cryptic can use for sure (even if practically no one likes the thing): the Freedm class, which appeared along with the Cheyenne and some other ships in the graveyard scene in Best of Both Worlds.
  • anazondaanazonda Member Posts: 8,399 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    misterde3 wrote: »
    The license to the shows and the first 10 movies is held by CBS, the license to the 11th movie (and the upcoming 12th) is held by Paramount.
    These are two different entities these days so Cryptic can't use their stuff.
    Some elements that are also in the movie like Red Matter can be used because they're not exclusive to that movie but also appeared in the "Countdown" comics.
    However since the Kelvin is exclusive to the movie (along with some other stuff, like the Klingons from the deleted scenes) Cryptic can't use it.
    However there's at least one single-nacelled ship Cryptic can use for sure (even if practically no one likes the thing): the Freedm class, which appeared along with the Cheyenne and some other ships in the graveyard scene in Best of Both Worlds.

    THATS the name I've been looking for... Thanks.

    http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20091121200554/starship/images/f/fa/Freedom_new04-1-.jpg

    It also has a TOS/TMP era equivalent: The Saladin class

    http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/163/saladinj.jpg/sr=1
    http://www.shipschematics.net/startrek/images/federation/destroyer_jenghiz.jpg
    Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
    pwebranflakes wrote: »
    Let me put the rumors to rest: it's definitely still the C-Store (Cryptic Store) It just takes ZEN.
    Like Duty Officers? Support effords to gather ideas
  • misterde3misterde3 Member Posts: 4,195 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    anazonda wrote: »
    THATS the name I've been looking for... Thanks.

    http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20091121200554/starship/images/f/fa/Freedom_new04-1-.jpg

    You're welcome...except it seems I kinda spelled it wrong, "Freedm" makes it sound like I've got a blanket stuck between my teeth.;)
    anazonda wrote: »
    It also has a TOS/TMP era equivalent: The Saladin class

    http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/163/saladinj.jpg/sr=1
    http://www.shipschematics.net/startrek/images/federation/destroyer_jenghiz.jpg

    Yeah, the good'ol Saladin.
    I'm just not sure Cryptic would get away with using that one.
    It's from the old "Star Fleet Technical Manual" from the 70's.
    Even the guys who make the "Star Fleet Battles" tabletop that was inspired by it only produced a limited amount of ships that directly reference that book since the appearently still have to pay royalties to this day.
  • kuronyra76kuronyra76 Member Posts: 22 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    It could be a design for Cruiser.

    And also "updated" design for bigger cruiser like this one for example.
  • elandarkskyelandarksky Member Posts: 1,013 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    i thought the kelvin was a scout-type ship?

    In terms of ship classes of STO that would make it a flimsy low powered escort?

    Plus given its position in the timeline I would see it being a low tier ship.., so why bother :P
    (yes the excelsior is from the same time but that was VERY advance for its time, apparently :D)
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  • kuronyra76kuronyra76 Member Posts: 22 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Just imagine for a second with Odyssey class, armitage, Defiant, Galaxy-X, cruiser with nacelle on the top of there saucer.
    And hybrid class.

    You can have some really nice design there.
  • anazondaanazonda Member Posts: 8,399 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    I want the Yaeger class...
    Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
    pwebranflakes wrote: »
    Let me put the rumors to rest: it's definitely still the C-Store (Cryptic Store) It just takes ZEN.
    Like Duty Officers? Support effords to gather ideas
  • captaindjm15captaindjm15 Member Posts: 34 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    yh hes right there are some great ships that deserve to be on sto like the dauntless class or the kelvin yh the 2009 film where bad a bit but the sequal looks better plus the design of the ship is like a modern version of the tos version and the designs have inspired loads of people in creating ships so i think they should be on sto as they are good ship designs plus what would you want the jj version of ships or the oddy and the heavy cruisers and the typhoon ans such i would go for the jj ships
  • stirling191stirling191 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    kuronyra76 wrote: »
    Just imagine for a second with Odyssey class, armitage, Defiant, Galaxy-X, cruiser with nacelle on the top of there saucer.
    And hybrid class.

    You can have some really nice design there.


    Sure...let's tack a completely idiotic nacelle onto ships that completely don't need them.

    Defiant? Doesn't even have a saucer, the nacelles are built directly into the hull to maintain a low profile.

    Akira? You really want to slap a massive obstacle in front of the weapon's pod? I can't imagine what could go wrong with that...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUHZZwuybiY
  • kuronyra76kuronyra76 Member Posts: 22 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    The Defiant is a totally different Design and you know it.
    And what is the problem?

    DIVERSITY? Ever heard of that? At the moment, almost every federation starship look the same. And in the series, movie and other stuff. You have lot's of different design.
    Come on in "First Contact" you even have a Millenium Falcon! :p

    You don't like a design, feel free to not use it. But don't tell that no one has the right to use them because YOU don't like them.
  • tcostiktcostik Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    captaindjm15 wrote: »
    yh hes right there are some great ships that deserve to be on sto like the dauntless class or the kelvin yh the 2009 film where bad a bit but the sequal looks better plus the design of the ship is like a modern version of the tos version and the designs have inspired loads of people in creating ships so i think they should be on sto as they are good ship designs plus what would you want the jj version of ships or the oddy and the heavy cruisers and the typhoon ans such i would go for the jj ships

    Dude, English. Seriously.

    It's doubtful we'll get a Dauntless Class. It's not a Federation ship, and it's hideous to boot.
    Also, the Kelvin is NOT a modern day version of a TOS ship. It IS a TOS-era ship. Actually, it's a bit pre-TOS, since Kirk wasn't even born when the Kelvin was Destroyed.

    If you even bothered to glance at any of the other posts in this thread, you'd know that Cryptic CAN'T use ships from any of the JJ films.
  • twg042370twg042370 Member Posts: 2,312 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Because this guy isn't a very good "moviemaker"?

    There weren't enough scenes of people sitting around tables and talking.
    <3
  • anazondaanazonda Member Posts: 8,399 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    tcostik wrote: »
    Dude, English. Seriously.

    It's doubtful we'll get a Dauntless Class. It's not a Federation ship, and it's hideous to boot.
    Also, the Kelvin is NOT a modern day version of a TOS ship. It IS a TOS-era ship. Actually, it's a bit pre-TOS, since Kirk wasn't even born when the Kelvin was Destroyed.

    If you even bothered to glance at any of the other posts in this thread, you'd know that Cryptic CAN'T use ships from any of the JJ films.

    O'rly?

    Maybe not in it's original incarnation, but definitively something Starfleet adopted later on:

    http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Battle_of_Procyon_V
    Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
    pwebranflakes wrote: »
    Let me put the rumors to rest: it's definitely still the C-Store (Cryptic Store) It just takes ZEN.
    Like Duty Officers? Support effords to gather ideas
  • misterde3misterde3 Member Posts: 4,195 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    anazonda wrote: »
    O'rly?

    Maybe not in it's original incarnation, but definitively something Starfleet adopted later on:

    http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Battle_of_Procyon_V

    Not in the canon timeline, only in one that diverges from the canon one during the 3rd season of Enterprise.
    Which means it's another 80 years "more alternate" than the JJ verse
    It's so different it might actually be that Kirk is a drinking buddy with Kang Kor and Koloth in that timeline.
  • anazondaanazonda Member Posts: 8,399 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    misterde3 wrote: »
    Not in the canon timeline, only in one that diverges from the canon one during the 3rd season of Enterprise.
    Which means it's another 80 years "more alternate" than the JJ verse
    It's so different it might actually be that Kirk is a drinking buddy with Kang Kor and Koloth in that timeline.

    Or it could be that Starfleet was already in the process of reverse engineering the design by the time Voyager returned home, based on logs and data they send home... ;)
    Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
    pwebranflakes wrote: »
    Let me put the rumors to rest: it's definitely still the C-Store (Cryptic Store) It just takes ZEN.
    Like Duty Officers? Support effords to gather ideas
  • misterde3misterde3 Member Posts: 4,195 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    anazonda wrote: »
    Or it could be that Starfleet was already in the process of reverse engineering the design by the time Voyager returned home, based on logs and data they send home... ;)

    You mean the logs from scans that were unable to detect the fact it wasn't actually a Federation ship?:P
    They only found that out after they pulled a panel they weren't supposed to pull.

    Besides reverse-engineering without the least bit of input or documentation usually has other results than a copy.
    This is a T-34-85 tank:

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/12/T-34-85_g%C3%B3ra_RB.jpg

    and this is a -T34-85 reverse engineered by the Yugoslaws:

    http://www.dolin.estranky.cz/img/mid/16193/teski-tenk-vozilo-a.jpg

    http://cache.burek.com/2008/10/572347_A-1_Kalis14Feb08_09sv.jpg

    ;)
  • anazondaanazonda Member Posts: 8,399 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    misterde3 wrote: »
    You mean the logs from scans that were unable to detect the fact it wasn't actually a Federation ship?:P
    They only found that out after they pulled a panel they weren't supposed to pull.

    Yea... The representation must have been pretty detailed, if it left scans that were convincing enough to at least make the Voyager crew belive it was genuine.

    Also, Voyager did go to slipstream on more than one occation... Failed, granted, but the data together might just have been the breakthrough needed.

    Besides reverse-engineering without the least bit of input or documentation usually has other results than a copy.
    This is a T-34-85 tank:

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/12/T-34-85_g%C3%B3ra_RB.jpg

    and this is a -T34-85 reverse engineered by the Yugoslaws:

    http://www.dolin.estranky.cz/img/mid/16193/teski-tenk-vozilo-a.jpg

    http://cache.burek.com/2008/10/572347_A-1_Kalis14Feb08_09sv.jpg

    The keyword here is "usually"... Not "nessacarily".

    ;)

    And to top all that, just because it's an alternate timeline, dosen't nessacarily mean that it wouldn come to happen.

    The Uniforms from "All good things happend" made it through to the alternate timeline where Janeway stole that deflector, so who is to say other similarities wouldn grow through to the now prime universe...

    Just because "it was seen in an alternate universe" dosent mean it wont come to pass anyways.

    After all, the "original" creation of the federation must necessarily have been in an alternate universe, since Daniels told Archer that the Xindi conflict never happend, yet it did... Exactly like it was supposed to happen.

    Thats a pretty big thing.
    Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
    pwebranflakes wrote: »
    Let me put the rumors to rest: it's definitely still the C-Store (Cryptic Store) It just takes ZEN.
    Like Duty Officers? Support effords to gather ideas
  • stirling191stirling191 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    kuronyra76 wrote: »
    The Defiant is a totally different Design and you know it.
    And what is the problem?

    You mean besides the fact that your suggestion is the equivalent of putting sails on an aircraft carrier or submarine because you think they look pretty?
    kuronyra76 wrote: »
    DIVERSITY? Ever heard of that? At the moment, almost every federation starship look the same. And in the series, movie and other stuff. You have lot's of different design.

    And each of those designs are functionally different vessels. No designer will simply slap on an extra part just because they like the way it looks. There needs to be a functional reason to do so, which by the way you've yet to provide beyond "waaaah I want my special idea to happen".
  • admiralcarteradmiralcarter Member Posts: 19 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    I ve heard JJ-Trek Online is in development.

    Maybe you will find the Kelvin Design there once it goes live. Just give it a few years to develop, then you can have all that Star Wars... err Star Trek Gimmicks from the new and modern Star Trek
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