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Suggestion: Dual Builds
ussultimatum
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
Dual Builds was a feature in City of Heroes/Villains that I always thought was really great. (Actualy it became 3 builds later on, but let's keep it simple for the time being).
Basically (in STO terms), it allowed you to have two full and separate skill builds.
You could then name your builds to keep track of them
When you wanted to respec, a respec would only work on one of the builds. You would have to swap builds to respec the other build using a separate respec.
Why would this be useful for STO?
1) Players would be able to have a team build and a solo build.
This might lead more players to take something like threat control for when they fly their Cruiser and then if they decided to swap to their Escort they could swap to their Escort DPS build with no threat control.
This in particular has always been a great boon for players that like to play support but end up having to solo a lot and thus don't specialize themselves for their support role.
2) Building off of #1, in the current game environment many players have more ships then they possibly have characters - two builds would allow them to customize for different ship types.
3) More players might spec for a specialized PvP (healer, DPS, etc.) build while keeping a more generalist build for PvE. Hopefully this might lead to less trepidation to hop into PvP.
4) Potential to lead to more respec sales. Now players have two different builds they may want to respec as needed.
Basically (in STO terms), it allowed you to have two full and separate skill builds.
You could then name your builds to keep track of them
When you wanted to respec, a respec would only work on one of the builds. You would have to swap builds to respec the other build using a separate respec.
Why would this be useful for STO?
1) Players would be able to have a team build and a solo build.
This might lead more players to take something like threat control for when they fly their Cruiser and then if they decided to swap to their Escort they could swap to their Escort DPS build with no threat control.
This in particular has always been a great boon for players that like to play support but end up having to solo a lot and thus don't specialize themselves for their support role.
2) Building off of #1, in the current game environment many players have more ships then they possibly have characters - two builds would allow them to customize for different ship types.
3) More players might spec for a specialized PvP (healer, DPS, etc.) build while keeping a more generalist build for PvE. Hopefully this might lead to less trepidation to hop into PvP.
4) Potential to lead to more respec sales. Now players have two different builds they may want to respec as needed.
Post edited by ussultimatum on
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Also, while the idea may have merit, how long do you think it would be before people started complaining along the lines of "why can't I have a tac and engineer on the same slot? I don't want 2 versions of the same character, and it's the same thing, a specialised build for specific circumstances???"?
Too many players of this game live under the "give an inch, take a mile" mentality. I assume you've seen the backlash because the FREE ship, which takes a few minutes a day to get (so probably only an hour or two in total) doesn't have a bridge? Or the people complaining that something in the rep store is overpowered in PvP despite it also being available for them to use?
Cryptic already shot themselves in the foot with selling character slots due to how the new Rep systems work.
We will continue to see further reasons to have a few characters instead of many.
Also, this would benefit me and I have 10 L50 characters.
Who cares?
People like that will complain anyway, we still get Breen ships and lockboxes and a host of other things they continue to complain about.
The reason we continue to get those things anyway, is because you don't let people like that dictate what the rest of the playerbase should or should not have added as a QoL measure.
I would think of it as something more like a Captain adapting his tactics in different situations rather than a separate skill tree.
Something like a "Dual Build" or "Multi-Specialization" would let players adapt to a couple of different roles without necessarily allowing them to become uber-characters who can do all things well.
This is different from having multiple characters, in that each character has to be leveled and geared up independently of each other. And that is a pain, no question about it.
The cons against having a Multi-Specialization skill system are added complexity and data storage. It might warrant a zen cost to unlock that feature (or free for Gold?).
Do we need it? Not really, although it would also make it easier for players to test things out in different scenarios and provide Cryptic with feedback. Certain testers ought to get rewarded by the Devs with free respecs.
What might work even better than dual builds for the rest of us is some kind of customizable "skill kit" that players can swap out to boost the effectiveness of their skills in different roles.
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This would be helpful all around. There is some discouragement to try different types of ships if you build your skill tree around a particular one. Maybe you intended to run an all cannon setup, but you really want to try that Borg console, cutting beam and Omega torpedo set. Well, you didn't spec into torpedoes at all, so you take a penalty for doing that. It forces us all to try to be as generic as possible if we don't want to be forced to respec just to try something new.
And yes, one or two free "build slots" per character would be a great Gold member benefit.
Here, lets keep it REAL simple. This was NOT a feature added while Cryptic had their claws in that game. It only became a feature after Cryptic got rid of CoH/CoV and No/"soon"-boy got out of it.
You choose the type of play you're going to be involved in by choosing your ship, its weapons and what bridge officer layout you have. You then make the same choices but in a different UI when you spec. It's somewhat silly.
The idea of dual spec is that you can fill multiple roles with different sets of abilities and different gear. Well.... you already choose different abilities and different gear in STO, so I'm not seeing how specs at all add a whole lot to the gameplay. They just limit player freedom, which would make dual spec an improvement, but not actually a solution to the problem.
But of course it's easy enough to level characters than you can have a decently setup tank character, healer character dps character etc. Though still, it would be nice if tanking crusier captains had an easy way to hop into a fast manouvreable ship to do daily solo stuff at least.
The point is that 1 character can have multiple ships of different classes available to them.
Typically I see this very often with players that have both an Escort and a Cruiser for example. They don't take threat control because of when they hop in their escort - unfortunately that makes their cruiser a completely threat-less wonder.
Or as one poster said, speccing for all Energy and wanting to add torpedos later on as a new torpedo (such as the Rom Rep or OMEGA Rep torps) becomes available.
Some players will respec left and right, others will just do a bland and non-specialized generalist build.
The goal of this concept in particular is to add a bit more flexibility especially for support players - in particular Sci Captains, who have a ton of things they need to potentially specialize in just to swap BOFF powers.
You talk about swapping boffs to swap your abilities - sure that's easy for a Tac, now try that with a Sci captain who needs to cover the basics with Tac & Eng skills that are useful (and needed) for all ship types on top of their Sci skills, most of which only boost 1 type of effect (drains, or disable duration for example).
That's an excellent idea.
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Zen Unlock for Free players.
Personally I'd definitely prefer this, as I'm not really interested at all in creating a new federation character as I never enjoyed the storyline missions enough for them to be more than a means to an end, and I don't want to go through hundreds of hours of grinding just to get to where I am already. This is why I was happy to see that since the last time I'd been on I had received a free respec due to some change or other, as it meant I could re-focus my skills for a new style of ship.
Cryptic could easily just combine this feature with respec points (ignoring free ones); basically you're paying either to get a new profile, or to respec an existing one.
I remember reading something somewhere about the possible future ability to play as one of your bridge officers as a character in their own right; this could be an interesting way of handling different skill profiles if they could each have a set of player skills (once you switch to them).
Game Balance - Ship Size and Wingmates
Hell, I'd get this just so I could switch between an STF build and a soloing build that has points in driver coil.
Well said.
Exactly. Good points.
However, I am not going to do this with the respec tokens, nor am I ever going to pay for a function that almost every new MMO comes out with these days.
You've got quite a few (if not too many) ways to gouge money and monetize almost everything in this game, and I am confident PW is making a lot of money off your (Cryptic) game as is, without the need to charge for every respec. The respec token is fine as is, and so is the price, but we should be able to store two or three specs to switch to when needed on a character.
Since joining two or so weeks ago, I've spent about $150, but I won't pay for this. It is however necessary for my continued enjoyment (and future spending) in this game, but I will not simply pay for what has become an MMORPG staple.
I know PW is a poor-reputation publisher with the 'locust syndrome' that a couple of other free-to-play game portals have, monetizing pretty much everything including changing your underpants. However, I think if Cryptic fights for this one little thing it will actually make a huge difference in player retention.
bloodpact.net
"The greatest danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it."
-Michelangelo
Under the old system not only were there dedicated skills for escorts/cruisers/science ships but each tier had its own set. And on top of that the values of the previous tiers carried forward. So to be effective in cruisers you basically locked yourself in to the cruiser line. Then once you hit rear admiral it broke down by ship type so for example you had to choose between limiting yourself to either the Assault Cruiser and Dreadnaught OR the Star Cruiser OR the Excelsior.
Trust me, the current skill system was in many ways designed to allow players to change ships on the fly. Multi-specs aren't really needed, find a build that you like and switch between the ships you want to as you want to. Other than having to adjust your play style for the differences between an escort and a cruiser you won't notice your skill point allocation making that much of a difference when changing ship types.
Oh really?
As a Tac, in a cruiser I'd want the space skill "Threat Control", and you're saying keeping threat control would be just fine when I'm in my escort?
No. That's bloody suicide. And the point stands, I'd never pay to change out one skill. Instead, I'm going to be in my Escort forever and eventually get bored.
This also feeds the "oh no, everyone is playing Escorts!" general player disillusionment with the game.
As for the other guy who posted, yeah, I went gold at 30, but eventually I'll run out of tokens if I am to switch for one single crappy skill that actually makes a HUGE difference in game play when switching between cruiser and escort. So eventually, I will still have to pay, which I won't, so I'll just have to ignore the fact that most players are frustrated that Escorts are 90% of the players in this game.
bloodpact.net
"The greatest danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it."
-Michelangelo
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What an incredibly relevant addition to the discussion, I am sure it will transform my world and make everyone respect you because of your eliteness.
Or, you know, just single yourself out as a total muppet.
bloodpact.net
"The greatest danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it."
-Michelangelo
Honestly anybody who claims you could just make 1 build and switch between every ship in the game without respeccing and it not making a difference is not really building their spec very well :P
So ya, I would +1 this idea, would pay good zen for a permanent 2nd spec slot unlock
If it's account-wide, yes, I would pay for it too.
If it's per-character, I'd expect it for free or next to free, perhaps unlocked on a mission. This is an MMORPG quality-of-life staple feature now.
bloodpact.net
"The greatest danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it."
-Michelangelo
This may be a stupidly simple answer, but how about you set up several different toons and have a different skill set on each of them, that way you can change toons to play different styles and not have to respec all the time
Let the stupid suffer
Because Cryptic already did one massive revamp of the system, a lot of players are satisfied with the status quo. There isn't as much public demand for a multi-spec system. There used to be. It's sort of died down.
I agree that a multi-spec system would be nice, but unless enough people are asking for it, it's not going to be a high priority for Cryptic. I suspect this will be hard for them to code, also - they'd need some new UI for it, and a considerable amount of backend.
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A few reasons that go beyond separate characters:
Rep grind.
High endgame gear costs that are single character unlocks (Omega/Romulan)
Fleet marks/credits (single character bound).
Single character unlock fleet & lockbox ships.
Single character unlock, high dilithium cost fleet gear.
Single character unlocks that cost zen, such as inventory increase, bank increase, special boffs (etc).
Leveling up is not the issue.
See above.
I have 10 L50 characters, multiple characters is not the issue.
Thanks! I guess? :P
I was certainly confused for a bit.
I too have many max-level characters (6 of them). I don't even bother to play the other 5 anymore because the amount of time, r/l money, and in-game money that i've put into the one char is pretty massive: Extra bank slots, extra ship slots, extra doff slots, extra boff slots; I have max rep in both rep systems (Omega and Romulan), and have invested massive resources into my fleet on this character; And i have a truck load of unique items that are character-bound. AND i too run into that same problem of wanting to spec in and out of skills frequently (mainly Threat Control and Driver Coil, but also a lot of the Sci skills).
Having the ability to select different skill specs for different ships, roles, or situations would be amazing. This is something i have wanted in STO for a long time.
So, talking about my second thought, there is nothing wrong with that. A system with dual talent build options does not limit my game play. As long as it is not mandatory. To have a specific build to do certain game content.
1. Max Threat Control
2. Get the new embassy science consoles in both +Threat and -Threat variations.
3. Tanking? Use +Threat ... Don;t want aggro? Use -Threat.
Important to note the defensive bonus from Threat Control skill is not affected by the consoles, so you can gain that benefit and still use the consoles to reduce threat.