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Cannons vs beams
themellow18
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
I run a heavy escort carrier. My question is whats best, running cannons or dual beams up front? Any help would be beneficial.
Post edited by themellow18 on
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Less than 5km = Cannons
More than 5km = Beams
DPS is represented as such to, beams will do more damage at range than a cannon will but point blank a cannon will do more.
Best cannons are the Quads but you will need to buy a lower tier ship to get them but very close to the quads are Fleet weapons for dps.
Also don't get the heavy cannons as they fire in bursts where as the others don't.
We'll need to know more about you. Are you an Engineer, a tac or a science? For the most part it won't make THAT much difference, given that escorts are cannon-boats first and foremost, but telling us more about your character, current setup etc can help us give more detailed advice.
Actually, cannons will do more damage almost regardless of range. Properly calibrated parsers don't lie. They'll do slightly less damage at range, sure, but you won't find a non-exotic beam build out-DPSing a cannon build under any circumstances, barring certain exotic tactics and builds. Beams have their place, but if you're concerned about doing maximum damage, it's cannons on your 'scort.
Also, the best cannons are NOT the quads, because the [dmg] modifier is inferior to CritH, CritD and Acc, especially if you're aiming to max out your crits. Quads are much better than they used to be, but they still can't beat purple Mk XII's with the ideal modifiers or the best fleet weapons.
And GET the heavy cannons! Dual Cannons fire more often, but the power drain from their higher ROF costs you more damage in the long run. Plus, DHCs get a bonus to crit severity, which boosts your damage incredibly once you buff.
Full 4-frontal DHCs tend to suffer diminishing returns, so for some it's preferable to run a torpedo or DBB + 3 DHCs to allow more versatility.
Hell, in PvE running all plasma (torps plus mines) beams is generally better then running beams. Two plasma DoTs (mine and torpedo DoT is different) are eating targets hull faster then beams chew through shield and hull. If you do not want DHC/DCs and want energy weapon, single cannons or turrets will still outperfom beams in most cases.
There is no place in STO for beams in my opinion outside of DBB as spike support for DHCs. Sadly as this is such canonical weapon for Star Trek.
Sigh..theres always one, Screenshot of a cannon out dps a beam at 10km please or your argument is void, the op simply asked what was best for him I answered with what type of pilot he is not whats better beams or cannons.
Mate I have quads with MK XII Fleet cannons, I'm the last person you should be trying to convince what the best cannons are lol and I'm happy to take a screenshot of one of my ships if you don't believe me.
By the way the Fleet weapons are below the quads only just though but overall the quads are better and fleet weapons are better than just plain old purple MK XII's and as I just said the quads are better than the Fleet weapons and it doesn't take a brain surgeon to work out the quads are better than the purple MK XII's.
I think we build ships/toons very different from one and other.
Due to power drain mechanics with weapon systems Dual Heavy Cannons outperform any other type of weapon regardless of range barring extremely freaky things that cannot be constantly active.
Anyone who says otherwise is going with what they 'feel or think' instead of what system mechanics, parsed combat logs, and basic math skills show us. There is more to the question of 'how much damage does this do' than what the tool-tip alone states.
Nope sorry dude disagree with you on that one as I said to the other guy, Screenshot of a cannon out dps a beam at 10km or your argument is void.
Sorry mate I ain't going with what I feel or think I'm going with what I know. Do you run all these weapons? because I do, I can get a screenshot of anything I'm saying to back me up can you?
For those who say beams have no place in this game, i wonder if you tried putting cannons on an oddy. Good luck with that.
Not even a casual trek fan, i mean i prolly seen a movie or two and a handful of episodes and I think that Beams should be more offensive then defensive.
I'm not even sure why canons that fire the same energy as a beam would do substantially higer damage. Unless same how the weapon mods the energy into a bolt or something then beams and canons should do the same damage.
It's not like we are comparing a howitzer to an ak-47, these are the same weapons with the same abilities but one just does massive damage where the other just seems to be heavily used for self defense.
But enough with my thoughts. personally I think if you like to take a back up roll and actually SUPPORT the more selfish players around you go beams. You can spread debuffs and damage to all the targets in an area with befaw. I don't know anyone who can say they hate the idea of not only another player inadvertently removing shields, and turning off systems in case of phasers along with getting a free APA, GDF, FoMM, so one and so forth followed by a torp spread on their target, plus taking all the aggro. If they do complain they are the biggest idiots in the world.
But if you want to be more aggressive self serving then go Canons. It's one shot on kill. (As you can see, i do not use canons so i have very little to say on the subject matter. It's sorta like playing a gme and everyone looks the same like cookie cutter replica's it's freaky as hell.)
But back to my original thought. Think of it as a sniper and a shotgun, both have their place on the field.
It all comes down to your style and place. If you want to be one, be it, and prove yourself capable. No matter how much advice someone gives you no matter the science behind it everything has it's flaws and it's place. Up or down. left or right. In the end it will be you who decides what is right for your ship and your game.
I personally like beams and will have to have them pryed out of my ship by force then to give them up.
Turrets. Better with DEM/CRF/both if you are for damage, better then beam if you are for procs. Only reason to take beams are BOs and Target Subsystem. The small problem is that you need only one beam for this, and beams are more of a supplement weapon then true weapons.
I think that currently everyone is limiting himself if he uses beams as primary weapons.
They should be stronger to be allowed as offensive weapons.
personally I put 6 beams to the enemy with a full broadside, that's 5k per beam at full output and buffs with 6-8k per beam on the crits and I crit quite a bit, 10-14% atm then with a torp spread. I don't do half bad with beams as weapons. Would my damage if I used DHC's double and prolly triple to god like status? Of course. But I don't like the idea of being forced to do something just because everyone is doing it. Even if I may not be living up to my full potential I would still rater see beams on Fed ships and cannons on KDF something about beams to me just screams strength and nobility. The power to sustain my will. But that's just me.... i'm weird like that.
I personally think if you use any weapon type you will limit your expertise to that weapon type. no matter the personal preference. It's just as they say, jack of all trades is master of none.
Beams should not be relegated to a supplementary spot in a game that has the name star trek in it even if it is not really star trek but a knock off of it. If that was the case they should just redo the skins and overhaul the game and rename it star wars.
But what ever your choice may be, make it your choice, beams, canons, turrets, torps, mines, missles, whatever, just make it you.
Point one: I am not the guy to go to with numbers questions. I look more to how effective I am when dealing with certain enemies.
Point two: I have used both beams and cannons on my various ships. There are times that I will get bored with the cannons that were on my Chimera, so I switched back to my Sovereign, with all beams and torps. That is actually closer to my playstyle in any MMO. The last one I played, I played in a tanking role almost exclusively, so that is what I am used to. I enjoy what beams can do for me. Overload and FaW are personal favorites, with Subsystem Target becoming a fast number three. I'll then get bored, and I'm on a Chel Grett with a full loadout of DHC and turrets with two torps. I have fun with that too.
So in response to all the butthurt over beams vs. cannons, it's not really a competition. Cannons may have a higher DPS, but beams have more versatility. And beams on a Fed ship just seems more... right to me. Unless you're on a specific ship-killer, like the Defiant. A full turret build on an Oddy? Fine. Go nuts. A full beamboat on the same Oddy? Grand. CannonOddy might eke out more DPS with Scatter Spray and RapidFire, but the BeamOddy gets FaW and Subsystem targeting.
As per the escorts and whether or not to but beams or cannons: do both. Cannons out front, beams in the back. That way, when you're pointed at the enemy, unleash DHC pain. When you aren't (Not sure the turn rate of the HEC off the top of my head, nor do I care right now), then you can use the beams, with FaW and ST as desired.
It's my preference. I am not a fight pilot, a jet ace, I don't feel the need for speed, or any of the sort.
I am a space Vice Admiral in a ship with 200+ People both civilian and military. I should not be swooping n from eleven o'clock high and finding myself on your six and chasing you around like a blood riddled game of freeze tag or red rover.
It's decorum if you ask me, to fight with class and dignity. In a way what is talent and what is barbarism? Can there be talent in a fight when you turn your nose on an enemy that more then likely can't fire back? I suppose I just like the old ways of war at sea. Just as navel battles should be fought. Ship of the line and crossing the T. It is the sea of space and not the air of space and what sense does it make for such a huge vessel to be moving and fighting like a 1 man jet?
On one hand you ask for realistic space battles and realism in the game yet in the same breath you demand to be able to do these types of things.
But then again this is personal opinion and it will not reflect, deflect, or change anyone else opinion of their choice in arms nor should it. We are whom and what we are. But as for me, I will continue to fight with beams, no matter what. Because it is my choice, my preference, and my decision. Amen
Horatio Oz.
(Famous last words? Possibly.)
But OP asked what is better. And here the answer is: cannons. Cannons (turrets among them) are better, for anything.
Not the classical "omg, arrays with their 255 degree arcs should have more DPS than cannons with 45", but the fact that, when combined with torpedoes (a classical build), the array broadside is clearly not in torpedo arc, heck, DBBs are in the exact same forward arc as torpedoes...
That, combined with the fact that it's almost a 15 degree turn from the edge of broadside arc into the edge of torpedo arc, how long it takes a classic cruiser to make this traverse, and the fact that even 3 arrays aren't quite up to DPS snuff to keep some of these higher-end shields down for the inevitable torpedo hit, and you run into a situation where arrays = meek.
The Regent's 180 torpedo offsets this some, as it gives a ~35 degree arc where the torp can shoot while in the broadside arc, but it's hard for me to say whether it's easier for the turn-challenged cruiser to keep targets in this arc that's narrower than the highly maneuverable escorts and their challenge of keeping foes in a forward 45 arc...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
Me and my Heavy Cruiser runs 4 BAs and 2 QTs and before that...my regular Cruiser was able to net me Third place in the Gorn Minefield on just a pair of phasers and photon torpedoes. This was not because I went in for kills head on. I learned early on how to broadside in my light cruiser.
As to the firing arc thing...I tend to treat battle like fishing...wait for the opponent to land in the sweet spot and then fire the torps. Rinse and repeat as needed.
EDIT: To add to that last bit...doesn't matter how fast you are racing around me if I can just outlast you due to having a larger crew and ability to repair damage to my shields and Hull and make sure my Mk VI Regenerative Shields (Reg)x2 are fully powered (I tend to run max shield power).
1. Quads have the [Dmg] Modifier which absolutely blows in comparison to Crth or Crtd.
2. They have a major drawback of lowering your engine power.
3. If you believe they are better just keep on role playing and ignore my post.
If you do not believe me i'll join any stf with you and clearly show you why DHC's are better.
-@s7ike
Turkish RP Heroes
Cannons if you can turn. Beams if you can't.
That is exactly what is being said.
Cannons if you can turn. Turrets with DEM if you can't.