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The state of PVP
sebastion84
Member Posts: 8 Arc User
This is my post on the state of the game, specificly PVP and how it needs a major overhaul.. I figure if i get enough posts going on the subject maybe PWE will do something about it. (And remember Cryptic in an interview a while back right out admitted that PVP needed to be fixed or removed completely to make a better game)
First off Equal Teams:
I just came from a match that on my team had 2 assault cruisers (the regular one at RA level) A Defiant (Fleet Version) a Intrepid , and myself (flying a fleet heavy cruiser) Sounds like a well balanced team right? Well not so much, we were pitted against a premade fleet team (A team of all the same fleet that was made before the match) They had 3 Temporal ships (2 of them were wells class and one mobius) and 2 Jem'hadar fighters.. Still think i had a well balanced team? So here we are 5 ships available through the game easily accessible by most players VS 5 lockbox ships that are Extremely hard (if not impossible) to get. Sound fair? I didn't think so.
Second Example:
A few weeks ago i was placed in a match (Fleet heavy cruiser) Vs a Jem'hadar and 2 wells class ships.. Ok yes i can tank a bit (Tactical in a cruiser) But 3 lockbox ships against my fleet ship? I would have to say overkill.. The next day same thing happened to a friend of mine. I and he put in tickets (Which surprise surprise never got any response from)
I would like to say that Cryptic in the past has been true to the player base (the whole player base, not a select few that pay epic amounts of money to get a overpowered lockbox ship) and fixed issues that the community banned together and said "hey we want this fixed", And it is my hope they will give this players concerns some serious thought, but as it seems since PWE has taken over the Developers (known to most as devs) have all but gone away, Yes we see BranFlakes posting once in a while so he may appease his PWE masters.. Now before i go on a tangent (more so than i already have) let me get back to the point.. As it stands Cryptic admits PVP is very much in need of a "fix" Yet now they have introduced a "PVP BootCamp".. even though they have said that PVP needs either to be deleted from the game or have a major Overhaul, what do they do? They indorse a PVP Bootcamp for a broken system. I think there is something wrong with this picture.
Now if we all band together once again as a strong outspoken community, maybe they will do something about this problem that is making PVP a major downside and deterrent to players in the game (Look how fast they "patched" the dilithium issue when the community screamed foul)If i could have as many as possible post on this "Situation" in the game with your own stories and examples of the Incredible mess they call PVP Maybe.. just maybe Cryptic will grow some balls (which appear to have been chopped off after PWE took over) and fix one of the biggest "bugs" in this game.
Thank you for your time
-Fleet Admiral Sebastion, SSC
First off Equal Teams:
I just came from a match that on my team had 2 assault cruisers (the regular one at RA level) A Defiant (Fleet Version) a Intrepid , and myself (flying a fleet heavy cruiser) Sounds like a well balanced team right? Well not so much, we were pitted against a premade fleet team (A team of all the same fleet that was made before the match) They had 3 Temporal ships (2 of them were wells class and one mobius) and 2 Jem'hadar fighters.. Still think i had a well balanced team? So here we are 5 ships available through the game easily accessible by most players VS 5 lockbox ships that are Extremely hard (if not impossible) to get. Sound fair? I didn't think so.
Second Example:
A few weeks ago i was placed in a match (Fleet heavy cruiser) Vs a Jem'hadar and 2 wells class ships.. Ok yes i can tank a bit (Tactical in a cruiser) But 3 lockbox ships against my fleet ship? I would have to say overkill.. The next day same thing happened to a friend of mine. I and he put in tickets (Which surprise surprise never got any response from)
I would like to say that Cryptic in the past has been true to the player base (the whole player base, not a select few that pay epic amounts of money to get a overpowered lockbox ship) and fixed issues that the community banned together and said "hey we want this fixed", And it is my hope they will give this players concerns some serious thought, but as it seems since PWE has taken over the Developers (known to most as devs) have all but gone away, Yes we see BranFlakes posting once in a while so he may appease his PWE masters.. Now before i go on a tangent (more so than i already have) let me get back to the point.. As it stands Cryptic admits PVP is very much in need of a "fix" Yet now they have introduced a "PVP BootCamp".. even though they have said that PVP needs either to be deleted from the game or have a major Overhaul, what do they do? They indorse a PVP Bootcamp for a broken system. I think there is something wrong with this picture.
Now if we all band together once again as a strong outspoken community, maybe they will do something about this problem that is making PVP a major downside and deterrent to players in the game (Look how fast they "patched" the dilithium issue when the community screamed foul)If i could have as many as possible post on this "Situation" in the game with your own stories and examples of the Incredible mess they call PVP Maybe.. just maybe Cryptic will grow some balls (which appear to have been chopped off after PWE took over) and fix one of the biggest "bugs" in this game.
Thank you for your time
-Fleet Admiral Sebastion, SSC
Post edited by sebastion84 on
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Comments
If that premade is who I think it is, even if they used c-store ships, they still would have won.
They've beaten at least one premade in tier-3 ships I believe.
If your team lost to them, it was because your team was just not as coordinated as they are.
/channel_join OrganizedPvP and setup a pugmade to have a better chance against premades.
Be that, pvp fleets are more inclined to min/max certain aspects of builds. So having 3xwells and 2xbugs is a nice burst setup with maneuverable science.
To be frank, Tactical heavy cruisers are a bit selfish and lack burst so from the start you limited your team.
As for bootcamp, the event has been sponsored by Cryptic but the organizers would have pushed it off without their support. More so, it gives the casual pvper a insight into the finer points of team play. It may or may not impact their gameplay but the hope is it will.
Cheers!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
^ lol @ this
Lesson 1:
Buy a lockbox ship.
Also, dont diss PvP bootcamp. They, as others have also done, are trying to help make PvP more open to new players.
A honorable cause it is.
R.I.P
I like the influx of new blood into the scene.
You said, "3 timeships and 2 bugships, I'm outta here" then you were gone. That doesn't sound like a game crash to me....
As far as the state of PvP. there are plenty of threads around here addressing that. This comes off as a QQ thread. Have a nice day.
I.R.W. Raptor's Claw
Storm Eagle Class Warbird Fleet Ha'feh
I have never trusted humans, and I never will
I normally don't use this stuff, but you should hold nothing back against bug ships, the ship that is the most blatant example of p2w in this game.
Mmm *slurp*
Two players, identical skill, gear will become the deciding factor. If you dislike that I suggest you find a non MMO pvp game.
Now you are just being silly. You don't need a lockbox ship to play PVP. If you think about it, most Lockbox ships are only special because of the consoles they come with. Sure their stats may seem superior, but take off the consoles, the lockbox ship will be just another ship to blow up.
The guy warped out after a good bye he didn't just crash he actually said he was out of there LOL!
we respected the last two enemies and they carried on fighting to the end and chatted to the two at end I was like meh its fun
This one is a legitimate complaint. The matchmaking system is rather buggy at times. I have been on the receiving end of this a few times, but I just have to grin and bear it until it's fixed.
Then what would you suggest as a solution? You speak about getting PvP to be overhauled. You want the community to speak up to the devs and get them to fix 'it'. However, you focus on the existence of the lockbox ships, which, to be frank, would be difficult for the devs to do anything about. Do you have any ideas? This case is nowhere near as clear-cut as the dilithium fiasco. You say that lockbox ships in the queues are a big problem, but you offer no meaningful suggestion as to how the problem can be solved. How would 'overhauling' the PvP system help with this?
Honestly, however, the Wells class is one of the more affordable lockbox ships available, and as such is more common than most others. However, there are a number who argue that the Vesta is a better sci ship, which means that the Wells is not necessarily the best available. I do agree that the bugship can be somewhat overpowered in the hands of some, but it can be countered fairly easily with teamwork. Just having one does not make the person a good player. I've outflown a couple in my fleet Sabre myself, which, given my skill level (low to medium), makes the bugship pilot pretty lousy if the bugship is really that OP as you say.
By the way, a Tac in a cruiser is pretty much the worst thing you can bring to a fight against a bugship.....or most good escorts for that matter. Sure, you can output good pressure damage and tank somewhat, but a good escort will have spiked you to death in the meantime. Any sci ship would just be the icing on the cake.
Furthermore, the bugship is the best escort, however it remains an escort. It is vulnerable to a number of things, particularly sci shutdowns.
I pug most of the time myself, and I understand how you feel about lockbox ships. However, it is very likely that individual player skill and teamwork contributes the lion's share towards the opposing team's victory, not the ships. Sure, you may still lose a contest of equal skill when using another escort that is inferior, but you will give your opponent a good fight where he has to overcome the challenge you pose to him.
Nope, that certainly does not sound like a balanced team. 3 out of 5 ships are cruisers? Too tank-heavy with not enough DPS is what it sounds like to me.
Seperating public queues would only hurt everyone. If your looking for casual friendly pvp, my advice is to build matches within your pool fleetmates/friends via the private challenge match. Its fast and easy.
If your trying to become a strong pvp player, you have to learn to endure many horrible defeats, taking them with a grain of salt and the outlook that overtime you and your crew will preform better.
Please don't scare them away. We need them.
STO Forum member since before February 2010.
STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link
I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
Ok fine I'll wear the bag again.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=493551&page=9
So the Sad Panda member who ridiculed this post.. well it seems this person was partly responsible for the cancellation of a PVP tournament. Makes me laugh a lot.. Oh and to make it better said players post was removed due to a breach in the Community Rules and Policies.. LOL @ said player!
I am sure said player will comment the heck outta this post, but i just wanted to get my 2 cents in.. I am done with this forum topic now, I have had my chuckle for the month, Thanks Sad Pandas!
-Seb.
Oh PS: To the said player of this post from Sad Pandas.. i have this to say.. Class move by ruining a pvp tournament for everyone else ^_^
the only people that ive seen defending jem ships are the ones that fly them. i saw one tank vs 3 escorts and 2 cruisers(i know these people and they were not pushovers) and then say that it is not op. i call epic targ dropings on that. the other ships arnt much more powerful then the average ship in my experience.
It does always seem a little cheesy when I'm in a patrol escort that has gear that I literally spent one day doing missions over and over to accumulate, and I end up dogfighting a Bug named 'PvP Bootcamp' over and over. In an actual bootcamp, the most important quality in instructors is that they 'be, know, do'. Ideally drill instructors should be people you want the trainees to emulate.
I've never seen someone who advertises the PvP Bootcamp using anything that a noob PvPer could be expected to obtain. Ideally they's all be using ships and gear equivalent to what's in Hilbert's guide.
I know that they are some of the best players in the game, but it's still just seems cheesy when you are in and actual starter escort and you spend half a match dancing with a bug-ship only to have that guy advertising the bootcamp at the end of the match. It would just be a lot cooler if those guys ate their own dogfood.
In my Sci a Bug better make sure his team puts me down first, or I'm going to make his life a living hell and help my Escorts blow him up.
Ask destroyed Bugs if they really think my control, confuse, disable, debuff is inconsequential. There's a reason I get re-targeted almost immediately after they respawn.
The only thing the patrol escort has over the bug is one more science console.
That's what I mean about the PvP bootcamp guys not practicing what they preach -- you only ever see them in ships that are vastly superior to what noobs might be able to acquire.
If you cross ship types, then that of course will change things, but the bugs don't have any particular weakness that other escorts don't have.
I don't mean it as an insult against those guys -- I know they are genuinely trying to help. But if they want people to follow their example (which they obviuously do given that some have renamed their ships to 'PvP Bootcamp') it would work a lot better if they set an example. Their preferred ship has several advantages and no deficiencies.
tru ive only seen 1 pvp bootcamp not in a lockbox ship all the rest were in bugs or temporal destroyers. i refused to fly my bug until it is brought closer to the other escorts and what did they do? buff the thing to fleet lvl(witch it did not need) and the only way ive seen to take down a bug is snb and a escort wich is why sci seems so effective but that works on all ships so not realy saying much
If you're talking about an escort vs escort fight, even the fleet patrol cruiser is closer to the vanilla model than the bug, since the turn rates are very close. The bug basically has the agility of a bird of prey, but the sturdiness of a fed escort. Escort vs. BoP fights can be a little balanced because the escort is more able to take damage so it can compensate for not getting it's guns on target as easily. But an escort has no advantage at all over a bug.
As far as I understand it, it was the first two messages in that series of moderated posts that stepped over the line. The last two posts (including Brandon's) were not censored for violating the forum rules, but because they quoted and referenced the second post which divulged private and personal correspondence on the forums.
There are no good rewards, the system is riddled with massive, deep problems that STO has taken precisely 0 changes to improve.
Which is a shame, because when I was last active, pvp was occasionally really really fun. The occasions just unfortunately became increasingly ... occasional.
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
Whether its the Pandas and friends who go play other games and brag about their success here
Where people constantly call hax or bash you for using self proclaimed "broken" items
Whether We cant even get a PVP Tournament together hosted by the members because people cant deside what is broken and what is not, bashing each other because of lavish egos of their conquest in PvP. (And for the record PvP Community, if it has a counter, it should be allowable)
This is why I dont want my fleet participating in Tournaments or go against other major fleets. We just help aid other lesser known fleets who want to better themselves on a pvp scale.
I thought PvP coaching was a step in the right direction... but I guess not.
I'm guessing PvP is lacking some serious leadership... It Started with PvP Bootcamp, that is where it will continue, I will get in contact with the Leaders of PvP Bootcamp and discuss it there after I start to resolve this mess
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
1) Teamwork and timing is #1
2) You cannot "Kirk It" in every ship
3) You are going to die, just get back up
Sad Pandas havent been a factor in PvP since they left for GW2, but the ones that have stayed, dont ruin it for us
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
1) Teamwork and timing is #1
2) You cannot "Kirk It" in every ship
3) You are going to die, just get back up
I'm in OPvP right now. I'm sure that if you asked, it would not be such a hard thing to find 4 other people to team up with.
I don't see the lack of segregated queues in a game with such a small population as a bad thing. Now, if we had a large community of PvPers then you could start looking into it. But if we implemented that change now, you'd just have pugmades or anyone who teams up shafted in favor of those who are unwilling to take 1 minute of their time to ask for a team invite.