I had this number floating in my head.
I'd imagine STO to earns something between $100.000 and $1.000.000 per month (I basicly imagine a lot of people paying $1)
Let's say $5.000.000 per year -> $416.666 per month.
Total labor costs I'd imagine something like $4.000 per head per month on average (I don't have the slightest idea since I'm from Europe).
Times 50 this is $200.000 per month, which works quite well with the presumed $416.666 and the premise of ongoing expansion (and server costs, profit, et cetera).
It would also mean that at least a good part of the revenue is spent on STO.
In any case: These numbers have no basis in reality (but I tend to get surprised by the accuracy of my wildest estimates time and again, so I have some slight confidence that it's not totally off).
I have full confidence that will not be the case here.
hmm so I guess I'm one of the few who found a foundry mission that completes within 90 seconds.
if you spent less time whinning and more time trying to exploit the game, you wouldn't worry about the change rate, you would have all the free dilithium you need jumping from alt to alt.
Everything changes, but nothing is really different.:cool:
I have full confidence that will not be the case here.
You can believe me: I would be pleased.
The accuracy of my estimates is so pervasively good that I am disappointed if an estimate was fairly accurate once again.
It becomes boring and life feels predictable.
I can get a laugh out of the idea of some Cryptic manager looking at the numbers and cringing... how could he know?! But frankly, I'm fine with settling on the numbers being a thought experiment and figment of my imagination.
I'm no business analyst or anything - and I suppose that with some research a realistic estimate could be created.
This is perfectly valid and correct, but you cannot disregard Cryptics influence in shaping dilitihum demand.
The prices would not have developed the way they did had Cryptic not introduced the fleet and reputation projects with a huge dilithium component.
It is consequently very clear that it's not solely the players that are responsible - altho they were willing participants.
Cryptic has changed incentives - and players have responded.
It's absolutely not the case that players "simply decided to settle for a lower exchange ratio".
This wouldn't happen for no reason either way.
Quite right their influence in providing dil sinks can't be ignored. Vanity projects costing 200k dil, various other projects that require smaller amounts of dil. Stocking the stores in the starbase then paying dil and fc for gear. Then the rep system where we have a double hit of the omega system being introduced along with S7 content/rep system.
Everyone wants to spend dil for gear or projects. Despite the dil costs this is an improvement over what it used to be like. Considerably less dil sinks and the dil exchange was a less liquid market. The price could be controlled using 200 to 300 CP through the week. Trying to do the same now would just be a drop in the ocean. Last weekend there was easily $2500 to $3000 worth of zen on the market just at the current market price. A similar value of dil sitting on the buy orders on the other side of the market.
This situation will smooth out as more players finish tier 5 and then finish getting the gear they want. I didn't play much when the rep systems came out so I've only hit tier 4 today. I'm more in need of omega marks than dil at the moment.
You shouldnt buy their zen points to begin with. Least of all for lockboxes. Dont support this gambling nonsense .... IF you wanted to make a post about you making a fool of yourself you have succeeded.
You shouldnt buy their zen points to begin with. Least of all for lockboxes. Dont support this gambling nonsense .... IF you wanted to make a post about you making a fool of yourself you have succeeded.
Now I get you, it just didn't follow the current discussions.
Most of the people complaining about the price are just greedy for dil and no one will sell them dil for 300 per zen anymore.
Wasn't my post, I was just pointing out that he was on topic (original topic anyway). If I were going to pay real $ to buy dil for zen I would definitely have done it a year ago (IIRC, I think I did. It was the last $10 I spent here, or will for the foreseeable future). I sell my stipend for it without even looking at the exchange rate. No matter how much it is, it's more than I was willing to grind to get.
I'll sell you some weapons from New Romulus. Never fired, only dropped once.
Really? Then I must be playing another game. The dil market is controlled by Cryptic by simply not showing all the offers.
I made a test: put some zen for sale at a price way over the market. I asked a friend if he can see my offer ( I excluded the fact that I wasn't able to see it), and of course no, there was no offer of mine. So simply by not showing all the offers, but only the lowest ones, CRYPTIC is controlling the market. At least be a man and admit it Brandon.
The currency exchange is anonymous and only executes trades at the best price. So if you are buying, you buy at the cheapest price available. If you are selling, you sell at the highest price available. This is to prevent exploits such as gold farmers using the system to transfer Dilithium to their customers.
The currency exchange is anonymous and only executes trades at the best price. So if you are buying, you buy at the cheapest price available. If you are selling, you sell at the highest price available. This is to prevent exploits such as gold farmers using the system to transfer Dilithium to their customers.
I was going to quote you and say: "That's correct and very insightful in regards to the absuive transfer of dilithium."
Then I saw your name is yellow and felt like an idiot.
After giving it some thought I have a question now, tho:
We can place sell orders at a ratio we wish, they just might not appear on the market?
For example 1 zen = 200 dil.
Now, I was under the impression the same was true with buy orders.
With a 1 : 200 sell order in place - if someone makes a 200 : 1 buy order - what happens?
Do they "cancel out"? Or does it take the cheapest offer and give the seller bonus dilithium
(or more Zen to the buyer)?
(For some reason I have a vague memory of this happening?!)
With the latter option it would clearly work as you said - altho it's sort of weird - hence I wonder.
I can't say I experimented with it.
I was going to quote you and say: "That's correct and very insightful in regards to the absuive transfer of dilithium."
Then I saw your name is yellow and felt like an idiot.
After giving it some thought I have a question now, tho:
We can place sell orders at a ratio we wish, they just might not appear on the market?
For example 1 zen = 200 dil.
Now, I was under the impression the same was true with buy orders.
With a 1 : 200 sell order in place - if someone makes a 200 : 1 buy order - what happens?
Do they "cancel out"? Or does it take the cheapest offer and give the seller bonus dilithium
(or more Zen to the buyer)?
(For some reason I have a vague memory of this happening?!)
With the latter option it would clearly work as you said - altho it's sort of weird - hence I wonder.
I can't say I experimented with it.
Say there is a sell order at a price of 200, and another sell order at a price of 110. For a buyer the one at a price of 110 is the best price. It doesn't matter what price they enter above 110. As long as they offer to buy at that price or higher they will buy the lowest priced sell order at the listed price. So in this case even though you offer 200, you will only end up paying 110, and the remaining Dilithium (90 per zen) will be returned to your exchange balance when your order is filled. If you offer to sell for a really high price, or buy for a really low price, your orders will stick around in the system and will eventually be filled if they ever become the best price due to price fluctuation.
There were probably people who put in offers to buy zen at 90 back in September when the price was around 160. Those offers just stuck around in the system and got filled recently when the prices got low enough.
Can't agree with this one as queued content is not the only thing they've added in the past year mission wise.m Also (whether you use/like them); the Fleet Advancement, Reoutation System, the Tau Dewa sector Block and the Defera, Nukara and especially the New Romulus ground zones were not a 'cut and paste' job by any means (nor were all the cutscences and VO added as you progress in Reputation Tiers in New Romulus Rep.
Hold up there dishing out the praise. I'll give you some of the VO work on New Romulus, but the rest of that **** is grind, grind, grind.
The Fleet Advancement System is resource sinks because we were all walking around filthy rich and had no reason to keep logging in. It's basically a hamster wheel for us to run on and to pretend otherwise is foolish at best, blatantly disingenuous at worst. Having a base means nothing except access to some exclusive but wildly overpriced stuff.
The reputation system is nothing more than a counter for the grind maps. If you call that content, be my guest. EVERY piece of endgame content has been turned into zergfests because it's cheap to make and the reputation system is just there to ensure you get 3 months' wear out of it before discarding it like the cheap toy it is.
Can you name a single Tholian with an actual name or part in the STO story, or are they just so many spiders that you and your bridge officers mow down mercilessly? Did Into the Hive, ground or space, make a single bit of difference to the STO landscape? Hell, there isn't even an ACCOLADE for beating the Borg Queen.
And it's not the case that PWE/Cryptic just spends development funds and resources across all their MMOs as (IMO) they DO have a game in what I consider near maintenance-mode, and that's Champions Onlibe.
Thanks for validating my decision to hang onto my wallet.
It would also mean that at least a good part of the revenue is spent on STO.
In any case: These numbers have no basis in reality (but I tend to get surprised by the accuracy of my wildest estimates time and again, so I have some slight confidence that it's not totally off).
Your rudimentary understanding of business notwithstanding...along with the mind-blowing overestimation of your own abilities...the very idea that you actually doubled down on this "explanation" is.. :rolleyes: .. but anyway how has it shown up in ways that matter to players?
Have we seen any of those KDF uniforms? No?
New KDF ships then?
How about that 1-50 Klingon content Stahl keeps going on about?
Romulan faction, even a mini-one?
How about those ship art fixes that are badly needed?
Able to run around and do anything on Earth yet?
Borderless sector space?
Oh, wait, new Featured Episodes?
Delta Rising is the best expansion ever and the players love it! No, seriously! ...Why are you laughing so hard?
Say there is a sell order at a price of 200, and another sell order at a price of 110. For a buyer the one at a price of 110 is the best price. It doesn't matter what price they enter above 110. As long as they offer to buy at that price or higher they will buy the lowest priced sell order at the listed price. So in this case even though you offer 200, you will only end up paying 110, and the remaining Dilithium (90 per zen) will be returned to your exchange balance when your order is filled. If you offer to sell for a really high price, or buy for a really low price, your orders will stick around in the system and will eventually be filled if they ever become the best price due to price fluctuation.
There were probably people who put in offers to buy zen at 90 back in September when the price was around 160. Those offers just stuck around in the system and got filled recently when the prices got low enough.
Thanks for the clarification.
So it's impossible to pay more than the lowest price and any excess is returned.
Really you can't blame the DEVS for the state of the Dilithium Exchange.
In general terms there are two sides to the exchange. Those who want to grind (Dilithium) for items in the C-store, and those who want to Pay (Zen) for items that require Dilithium. With lots of Dilithium sinks in the game at the moment and not so many recent C-store items it is no surprise that Zen isn't worth so much.
Obviously folks that are buying Zen to sell for Dilithium aren't happy about the situation, but if you don't like the price then don't sell. Go grind the Dilithium yourself which isn't particularly hard, just time consuming. If you do stop selling, and if enough other people feel that way and the Zen sellers disappear, then the price will go up. But the fact is the Zen will be worth the least amount of Dilithium people are willing to sell it for and there are obviously people out there that are happy with 90.
Your rudimentary understanding of business notwithstanding...along with the mind-blowing overestimation of your own abilities...the very idea that you actually doubled down on this "explanation" is.. :rolleyes: .. but anyway how has it shown up in ways that matter to players?
Have we seen any of those KDF uniforms? No?
New KDF ships then?
How about that 1-50 Klingon content Stahl keeps going on about?
Romulan faction, even a mini-one?
How about those ship art fixes that are badly needed?
Able to run around and do anything on Earth yet?
Borderless sector space?
Exchange search improvements?
Oh, wait, new Featured Episodes?
I've bought 40 dollars with of Zen with a 15% bonus Zen. I bought the Dacoit and the Corsair, two more character slots, I haven't used yet, two extra ship slots by accident (I figure I'll use it in time anyway), two bridge officer slots so I could use the my science ensign on my Dacoit, and a couple of Doff packs with the left over zen and I still have 104 or 204 Zen left.
I've not spent zen on locknoxes, hate lotteries.
I don't buy Dilithium, I'm only a Captain so the Fleet Corsair is still far away so I just earn Dilithium and fleet marks and trade them in for Fleet Credits. Also finally got rid of all those trace particles and stuff for fleet credits. Traded EC for warp coils to trade for Fleet Credits as well. Its been just a few days and already I have over 46,200 fleet credits.
At this rate I'm thinking of buying the Corsair Retrofit so I only have to buy 1 Fleet Modual, plus its nearly as good as the Fleet Corsair, but with a different BO layout.
I don't bother with the Dilithium exchange so the rates don't matter to me.
At this rate I'm thinking of buying the Corsair Retrofit so I only have to buy 1 Fleet Modual, plus its nearly as good as the Fleet Corsair, but with a different BO layout.
The Corsair is a tier 4 ship, so it won't get you any discount on the Fleet Corsair. There's no way to get that ship with fewer than four FSMs.
Even more reason not to buy Z-Store TRIBBLE. You'd think they'd have sense to make it a sliding scale, i.e. 4 FSM for Fleet T2 ships, 3 FSM for Fleet T3 ships, 2 FSM for Fleet T4 ships. It's only worth it now if you're going to fly it on more than 1 toon for the FSM savings.
Ah well.
Delta Rising is the best expansion ever and the players love it! No, seriously! ...Why are you laughing so hard?
This statement is false. You (cryptic) set the supply and create demand for it, and you can (secretly or overtly) engage in active monetary policy by pumping zen or dil into the system, or taking them out, including fixing the trivial investigate officer reports daily which seriously impacted the market.
The exchange is player driven within the confines of the monetary (i.e. game design) regime set by Cryptic and adjusted as you see fit. If you increased (or decreased) dil costs for fleet projects or items by a factor of 2 without changing the rate of earning dil that would effect the dil-zen market. So '100% player driven' is not true, players don't control the dil prices for the dilithium sinks in the game, nor do they control the number of zen items in the store, their price, or desirability etc.
I'm not saying the exchange is bad. To claim it is 100% player driven is false however.
Not sure how long you have been playing but I have seen the ups and downs of this game in the last 2 years and such being said you can tell its a player driver driven economy. PWE and Cryptic have no need to do what you say because if you understand economics of the system its extemely hard for people who use bots to even get anywhere first off. Then if you look at the spectrum of the pricing if its high or low it does not matter because the companies in question make the returns they designed.
To explain this in detail on how it works is and you will see this to be true even if you don't want to you will know that is true. When the dilithium exchange is at its lowest which it is right now which I would gauge from 25 to 150 dilithium per zen the company will push out dilithium requirements because those who play but are not dilithium grinders will pay money to get their dilithium. In the cases where its 160-500ish dilithium per zen that is when you will see more and more things like ships coming out for the c-store and items that will cost zen because it will take more to grind out and that point people who are in the dilithium only category will be able to get it cheaper but yet the buying of zen is up on either side of the spectrum.
In conclusion the player driven economy sets the bar on how they deliver content they do not need to do any type of rigging to the system to change it because they make money no matter where its at all they do with it is use different marketing tactics within the game itself to switch around when it goes higher or goes low like it is now.
i think 2 things need to happen for dilith to be worth more
1...more accual things to buy for example. as nice as lockboxes are .... I see them as a trap more than anything so if i buy keys its to trade for box items i want not to open boxes. I will pay for bundles and cool pets, probibly not ships since i seem to go through ships in like 5 minutes before needing a new level of ship and most the cstore ships look meh, More account wide features, i often dont spend for 1 character things.
add more formal outfit options or combine formal and off duty, swim suits for risa, sell extra costume slots for bridge officers, maybe an offduty slot, more KDF outfits, more hair options, tails for alien chars who dont want to be catfolk.... wings & antennae for insectoid aliens. sell the ability for you to have your 1st officer as a noncombat pet.
maybe let us buy the right to promote a doff we really like... not trade in accually promote..or even alter. I don't know about you but after a while i come up with little stories for my doffs, like R'Mut the catfolk advisor, Reinbo the comm officer(got to love some of the names), that botinist that keeps filling in for the antimatter specialist... let us raise thier rarity and give them a trait.
2... Doff missions i love them to bits but they earn to much exp and dilithium, why pay for something i can earn while not even logged in. Doff missions i can see as earning EC and Doff exp, maybe even bridge officer expertise since you often swap out bridge officers and thier skills, anything more and its kinda makes sto into STOVille....
The currency exchange is anonymous and only executes trades at the best price. So if you are buying, you buy at the cheapest price available. If you are selling, you sell at the highest price available. This is to prevent exploits such as gold farmers using the system to transfer Dilithium to their customers.
I wasn't contesting the reason for wich you control or not the market. If you want reasons, ofcourse you can find tons of them, good or bad, depends on wich side of the argument you are. The fact is this is a controlled market, not a free one, and atm this is in the best interest of PWE and F2P players. Again, this is a good or bad thing depending on what kind of player you are ( F2P or P2P).
Make it like Exchange works now, and you might have a free market.
Allways in a MMO ppl will find a way to exploit something.
But to state that the dil market is a free market not under control by Cryptic this is a lie. By the simple fact that someone else than the buyer or seller can decide wich offers are shown, this is control.
I am a LTS member and have NOT spent any RL money in the Z store since November 2012. I usually buy between 5000-10000 Zen each month.
The Dilth rate was at 88/1 yesterday, last time I bought dilth it was at 151/1. I will NOT spend anymore RL $$$ in the Z store untill the Dilth Econ gets fixed. This also means I will NOT be buying any more Keys for lockboxes either.
I am not alone, the other LTS members that I know have either curbed their spending or are NOT buying any Zen.
The dilth grind is long and sux...but my RL entertainment $$$ are better spent on "other" entertainment venues that DO NOT try to suck my pocketbook...dry.
Outside of the Dilth Econ being ran by greedy over the top business execs...I think the Devs are doing a...Wonderful Job.
Qa'pla
i don't get it?
are you actually mad that Zen prices are falling?
imho the C-Store is WAY to expensive for the usual player (i am not talking about MMO addicts that have no awareness of their spendings, i am talking about people that are used to a full Mass Effect DLC or a 10 pack of Forza Cars for the price of half a STO Starship these days.)
If you ask me the Dilithium Exchange can fall down to 1:25
so that all Players can profit from the cheap prices.
dilithium i can easily get for playing, i have patience, i do not need to get every shiny item right now and the Fleetbase is moving along just fine without me spending $ for Dil.
For the record i also have a LTS and have not spend any $ on STO since the Winter Event 2011, thx to the Dilithium Exchange.
AND i now have pretty much everything unlocked in the C-Store, all that i have left to buy are a hand full of ships (really it is like 6 or 7, and i do not want those) and of course Master Keys, DOff Packs and Fleet Ship Modules because there is unlimited need for those.
I am the dude that has been SELLING dilithium over the last year every day.
I am the dude that wanted your Zen!
I am DONE with the C-Store, i do not need your Zen anymore, now i will keep my Dilithium, and therefore the Dil Exchange will fall that much faster every day now.
I have effectively stopped grinding Dil until something pops up in the C-Store that i WANT (and that will not be the next LockBox, it will be the next Ship or Uniform or Bridge etc...)
I now just play for fun and keep the Dil i get.
It is all about demand and supply, i have no more demand for your Zen, so Zen gets that much cheaper.
Demand for Dil rises, thx to all kind of Sinks, therefore Dil gets more valuable.
If you are the Pay 2 Win minded player and want to spend $ for your Dil so you dont have to play, or get ahead faster... and it is now becoming too expensive for you.
Sorry then i do not feel bad for you ;P
Get in the game and start PLAYING like it is supposed to be!
I'm done grinding your Dil for you! (at least for now)
I wasn't contesting the reason for wich you control or not the market. If you want reasons, ofcourse you can find tons of them, good or bad, depends on wich side of the argument you are. The fact is this is a controlled market, not a free one, and atm this is in the best interest of PWE and F2P players. Again, this is a good or bad thing depending on what kind of player you are ( F2P or P2P).
Make it like Exchange works now, and you might have a free market.
Allways in a MMO ppl will find a way to exploit something.
But to state that the dil market is a free market not under control by Cryptic this is a lie. By the simple fact that someone else than the buyer or seller can decide wich offers are shown, this is control.
The Dilithium Exchange allows you to anonymously trade dilithium and zen at the best ratio available. Nothing more, nothing less.
That's not a control mechanism but the limit of its scope of functionality.
As a Dev has stated: The reason it works the way it does is to prevent abuse of the system: Like gold-farmers transferring dilithium/zen.
The only thing you're allowed to is anonymously trade it at the best ratio available.
That's the end of it.
Within the boundaries of its functionality the market is free. Cryptic does not do trading there.
I don't say this because I blindly believe Cryptic; I say it because there's no advantage to Cryptic in doing so.
Within the boundaries of its functionality the market is free. Cryptic does not do trading there.
I don't say this because I blindly believe Cryptic; I say it because there's no advantage to Cryptic in doing so.
I fully agree that Cryptic doesn't manipulate the market directly by injecting trades into it. However, they do control it quite a bit, because they control the scarcity and value of Dilithium for other purposes, which directly affects the supply of Dilithium for trade. They also control the value of Zen for other purposes. They also have some control over the scarcity of Zen, but they have never done anything that would reduce this, such as putting a cap on how much you can buy or transfer to STO, and they're not likely to ever do so.
If Dilithium is needed for character progression in an area in which a substantial portion of the playerbase have not finished progressing, that makes it more valuable. With no proportional increase in supply, that makes it scarce for Zen trading. That's a decision Cryptic made; they increased both the amount of Dil needed for character progression and the sources of getting more, but they increase the former far more than the latter.
I'm not saying Cryptic did anything wrong; expensive Dil benefits Cryptic more than cheap Dil, and the fact that people are still buying so much of it means Cryptic hasn't annoyed the paying customers into not paying. But it's disingenuous to say that Cryptic has no control over the market. They have tremendous control over it, they just don't DIRECTLY do so by injecting trades.
Former moderator of these forums. Lifetime sub since before launch. Been here since before public betas. Foundry author of "Franklin Drake Must Die".
I fully agree that Cryptic doesn't manipulate the market directly by injecting trades into it. However, they do control it quite a bit, because they control the scarcity and value of Dilithium for other purposes, which directly affects the supply of Dilithium for trade. They also control the value of Zen for other purposes. They also have some control over the scarcity of Zen, but they have never done anything that would reduce this, such as putting a cap on how much you can buy or transfer to STO, and they're not likely to ever do so.
If Dilithium is needed for character progression in an area in which a substantial portion of the playerbase have not finished progressing, that makes it more valuable. With no proportional increase in supply, that makes it scarce for Zen trading. That's a decision Cryptic made; they increased both the amount of Dil needed for character progression and the sources of getting more, but they increase the former far more than the latter.
I'm not saying Cryptic did anything wrong; expensive Dil benefits Cryptic more than cheap Dil, and the fact that people are still buying so much of it means Cryptic hasn't annoyed the paying customers into not paying. But it's disingenuous to say that Cryptic has no control over the market. They have tremendous control over it, they just don't DIRECTLY do so by injecting trades.
I'll agree they affect the economy a lot; economic conditions, supply, demand - they have at least some control about these factors - but that's not part of the Dilithium Exchange per se, but the larger economy.
The players response to Cryptics changes (to the economy) is what cause the exchange ratio to shift, but this does not mean Cryptic controls the dilithium exchange.
A bit of hair-splitting is necessary in this case. :P
The Dilithium exchange is player driven, there is no doubt about it but not the supply and demand.
Supply and demand of dilithium is driven by Criptic. It doesn't mater if there is more dil ore available today than before S7 because the same CAP persists. If you can only refine 8000 a day and all fleet, reputation, dil store items cost dilithium than the market as a whole is not player driven.
A lot of items became more expansive dilithium wise, all new items offered on the fleet and reputation systems cost a lot of dilithium and that was not the reality before.
Before the new system we had the store on DS9 that was the only place to get the best gear. The gear used to cost EDC, rare and prototype salvage and tech only and you could keep the dil. Now those items cost dilithium also.
So, what Criptic did was remove your ability to get top gear in a timely fashion and replaced it with a cruel dilithium grind. Before, when you ran a STF on Elite you got 1 ou 2 EDC, 1440 dil, some rare or very rare salvage and maybe a tech. That salvage could be traded by a MK XI or MK XII very rare weapon. A full borg set used to cost 15 EDC (5 EDC a piece).
Now, a MK XII weapon from the rep store costs almost 30k dil (3.75 days of ref. cap). A MK XII borg set costs 97.500 dil (more than 12 days of ref. cap), 2700 Omega Marks (almost 30 elite STFs with optional) and 15 BNPs.
That is the same as if a say to you: Your monthly salary will remain 10.000 dollars but this car's cost will go from 20.000 to 200.000 dollars starting tomorrow, and I'm the only car dealer in the world. Have a nice day!
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Member since Jan 24th 2010 (more or less)
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Comments
I have full confidence that will not be the case here.
if you spent less time whinning and more time trying to exploit the game, you wouldn't worry about the change rate, you would have all the free dilithium you need jumping from alt to alt.
Everything changes, but nothing is really different.:cool:
You can believe me: I would be pleased.
The accuracy of my estimates is so pervasively good that I am disappointed if an estimate was fairly accurate once again.
It becomes boring and life feels predictable.
I can get a laugh out of the idea of some Cryptic manager looking at the numbers and cringing... how could he know?! But frankly, I'm fine with settling on the numbers being a thought experiment and figment of my imagination.
I'm no business analyst or anything - and I suppose that with some research a realistic estimate could be created.
He's dead, Jim.
Quite right their influence in providing dil sinks can't be ignored. Vanity projects costing 200k dil, various other projects that require smaller amounts of dil. Stocking the stores in the starbase then paying dil and fc for gear. Then the rep system where we have a double hit of the omega system being introduced along with S7 content/rep system.
Everyone wants to spend dil for gear or projects. Despite the dil costs this is an improvement over what it used to be like. Considerably less dil sinks and the dil exchange was a less liquid market. The price could be controlled using 200 to 300 CP through the week. Trying to do the same now would just be a drop in the ocean. Last weekend there was easily $2500 to $3000 worth of zen on the market just at the current market price. A similar value of dil sitting on the buy orders on the other side of the market.
This situation will smooth out as more players finish tier 5 and then finish getting the gear they want. I didn't play much when the rep systems came out so I've only hit tier 4 today. I'm more in need of omega marks than dil at the moment.
Have you posted in the correct thread?
Believe it or not, it does speak to the OP (albeit in a harsh way)
Now I get you, it just didn't follow the current discussions.
Most of the people complaining about the price are just greedy for dil and no one will sell them dil for 300 per zen anymore.
Wasn't my post, I was just pointing out that he was on topic (original topic anyway). If I were going to pay real $ to buy dil for zen I would definitely have done it a year ago (IIRC, I think I did. It was the last $10 I spent here, or will for the foreseeable future). I sell my stipend for it without even looking at the exchange rate. No matter how much it is, it's more than I was willing to grind to get.
The currency exchange is anonymous and only executes trades at the best price. So if you are buying, you buy at the cheapest price available. If you are selling, you sell at the highest price available. This is to prevent exploits such as gold farmers using the system to transfer Dilithium to their customers.
Quoted for truth.
I was going to quote you and say: "That's correct and very insightful in regards to the absuive transfer of dilithium."
Then I saw your name is yellow and felt like an idiot.
After giving it some thought I have a question now, tho:
We can place sell orders at a ratio we wish, they just might not appear on the market?
For example 1 zen = 200 dil.
Now, I was under the impression the same was true with buy orders.
With a 1 : 200 sell order in place - if someone makes a 200 : 1 buy order - what happens?
Do they "cancel out"? Or does it take the cheapest offer and give the seller bonus dilithium
(or more Zen to the buyer)?
(For some reason I have a vague memory of this happening?!)
With the latter option it would clearly work as you said - altho it's sort of weird - hence I wonder.
I can't say I experimented with it.
He's dead, Jim.
Say there is a sell order at a price of 200, and another sell order at a price of 110. For a buyer the one at a price of 110 is the best price. It doesn't matter what price they enter above 110. As long as they offer to buy at that price or higher they will buy the lowest priced sell order at the listed price. So in this case even though you offer 200, you will only end up paying 110, and the remaining Dilithium (90 per zen) will be returned to your exchange balance when your order is filled. If you offer to sell for a really high price, or buy for a really low price, your orders will stick around in the system and will eventually be filled if they ever become the best price due to price fluctuation.
There were probably people who put in offers to buy zen at 90 back in September when the price was around 160. Those offers just stuck around in the system and got filled recently when the prices got low enough.
Hold up there dishing out the praise. I'll give you some of the VO work on New Romulus, but the rest of that **** is grind, grind, grind.
The Fleet Advancement System is resource sinks because we were all walking around filthy rich and had no reason to keep logging in. It's basically a hamster wheel for us to run on and to pretend otherwise is foolish at best, blatantly disingenuous at worst. Having a base means nothing except access to some exclusive but wildly overpriced stuff.
The reputation system is nothing more than a counter for the grind maps. If you call that content, be my guest. EVERY piece of endgame content has been turned into zergfests because it's cheap to make and the reputation system is just there to ensure you get 3 months' wear out of it before discarding it like the cheap toy it is.
Can you name a single Tholian with an actual name or part in the STO story, or are they just so many spiders that you and your bridge officers mow down mercilessly? Did Into the Hive, ground or space, make a single bit of difference to the STO landscape? Hell, there isn't even an ACCOLADE for beating the Borg Queen.
Thanks for validating my decision to hang onto my wallet.
Your rudimentary understanding of business notwithstanding...along with the mind-blowing overestimation of your own abilities...the very idea that you actually doubled down on this "explanation" is.. :rolleyes: .. but anyway how has it shown up in ways that matter to players?
Have we seen any of those KDF uniforms? No?
New KDF ships then?
How about that 1-50 Klingon content Stahl keeps going on about?
Romulan faction, even a mini-one?
How about those ship art fixes that are badly needed?
Able to run around and do anything on Earth yet?
Borderless sector space?
Oh, wait, new Featured Episodes?
Thanks for the clarification.
So it's impossible to pay more than the lowest price and any excess is returned.
He's dead, Jim.
In general terms there are two sides to the exchange. Those who want to grind (Dilithium) for items in the C-store, and those who want to Pay (Zen) for items that require Dilithium. With lots of Dilithium sinks in the game at the moment and not so many recent C-store items it is no surprise that Zen isn't worth so much.
Obviously folks that are buying Zen to sell for Dilithium aren't happy about the situation, but if you don't like the price then don't sell. Go grind the Dilithium yourself which isn't particularly hard, just time consuming. If you do stop selling, and if enough other people feel that way and the Zen sellers disappear, then the price will go up. But the fact is the Zen will be worth the least amount of Dilithium people are willing to sell it for and there are obviously people out there that are happy with 90.
It hasn't.
Also, do you think I care about your assumptions?
He's dead, Jim.
I've not spent zen on locknoxes, hate lotteries.
I don't buy Dilithium, I'm only a Captain so the Fleet Corsair is still far away so I just earn Dilithium and fleet marks and trade them in for Fleet Credits. Also finally got rid of all those trace particles and stuff for fleet credits. Traded EC for warp coils to trade for Fleet Credits as well. Its been just a few days and already I have over 46,200 fleet credits.
At this rate I'm thinking of buying the Corsair Retrofit so I only have to buy 1 Fleet Modual, plus its nearly as good as the Fleet Corsair, but with a different BO layout.
I don't bother with the Dilithium exchange so the rates don't matter to me.
The Corsair is a tier 4 ship, so it won't get you any discount on the Fleet Corsair. There's no way to get that ship with fewer than four FSMs.
Ah well.
Not sure how long you have been playing but I have seen the ups and downs of this game in the last 2 years and such being said you can tell its a player driver driven economy. PWE and Cryptic have no need to do what you say because if you understand economics of the system its extemely hard for people who use bots to even get anywhere first off. Then if you look at the spectrum of the pricing if its high or low it does not matter because the companies in question make the returns they designed.
To explain this in detail on how it works is and you will see this to be true even if you don't want to you will know that is true. When the dilithium exchange is at its lowest which it is right now which I would gauge from 25 to 150 dilithium per zen the company will push out dilithium requirements because those who play but are not dilithium grinders will pay money to get their dilithium. In the cases where its 160-500ish dilithium per zen that is when you will see more and more things like ships coming out for the c-store and items that will cost zen because it will take more to grind out and that point people who are in the dilithium only category will be able to get it cheaper but yet the buying of zen is up on either side of the spectrum.
In conclusion the player driven economy sets the bar on how they deliver content they do not need to do any type of rigging to the system to change it because they make money no matter where its at all they do with it is use different marketing tactics within the game itself to switch around when it goes higher or goes low like it is now.
Seriously.
1...more accual things to buy for example. as nice as lockboxes are .... I see them as a trap more than anything so if i buy keys its to trade for box items i want not to open boxes. I will pay for bundles and cool pets, probibly not ships since i seem to go through ships in like 5 minutes before needing a new level of ship and most the cstore ships look meh, More account wide features, i often dont spend for 1 character things.
add more formal outfit options or combine formal and off duty, swim suits for risa, sell extra costume slots for bridge officers, maybe an offduty slot, more KDF outfits, more hair options, tails for alien chars who dont want to be catfolk.... wings & antennae for insectoid aliens. sell the ability for you to have your 1st officer as a noncombat pet.
maybe let us buy the right to promote a doff we really like... not trade in accually promote..or even alter. I don't know about you but after a while i come up with little stories for my doffs, like R'Mut the catfolk advisor, Reinbo the comm officer(got to love some of the names), that botinist that keeps filling in for the antimatter specialist... let us raise thier rarity and give them a trait.
2... Doff missions i love them to bits but they earn to much exp and dilithium, why pay for something i can earn while not even logged in. Doff missions i can see as earning EC and Doff exp, maybe even bridge officer expertise since you often swap out bridge officers and thier skills, anything more and its kinda makes sto into STOVille....
Make it like Exchange works now, and you might have a free market.
Allways in a MMO ppl will find a way to exploit something.
But to state that the dil market is a free market not under control by Cryptic this is a lie. By the simple fact that someone else than the buyer or seller can decide wich offers are shown, this is control.
i don't get it?
are you actually mad that Zen prices are falling?
imho the C-Store is WAY to expensive for the usual player (i am not talking about MMO addicts that have no awareness of their spendings, i am talking about people that are used to a full Mass Effect DLC or a 10 pack of Forza Cars for the price of half a STO Starship these days.)
If you ask me the Dilithium Exchange can fall down to 1:25
so that all Players can profit from the cheap prices.
dilithium i can easily get for playing, i have patience, i do not need to get every shiny item right now and the Fleetbase is moving along just fine without me spending $ for Dil.
For the record i also have a LTS and have not spend any $ on STO since the Winter Event 2011, thx to the Dilithium Exchange.
AND i now have pretty much everything unlocked in the C-Store, all that i have left to buy are a hand full of ships (really it is like 6 or 7, and i do not want those) and of course Master Keys, DOff Packs and Fleet Ship Modules because there is unlimited need for those.
I am the dude that has been SELLING dilithium over the last year every day.
I am the dude that wanted your Zen!
I am DONE with the C-Store, i do not need your Zen anymore, now i will keep my Dilithium, and therefore the Dil Exchange will fall that much faster every day now.
I have effectively stopped grinding Dil until something pops up in the C-Store that i WANT (and that will not be the next LockBox, it will be the next Ship or Uniform or Bridge etc...)
I now just play for fun and keep the Dil i get.
It is all about demand and supply, i have no more demand for your Zen, so Zen gets that much cheaper.
Demand for Dil rises, thx to all kind of Sinks, therefore Dil gets more valuable.
If you are the Pay 2 Win minded player and want to spend $ for your Dil so you dont have to play, or get ahead faster... and it is now becoming too expensive for you.
Sorry then i do not feel bad for you ;P
Get in the game and start PLAYING like it is supposed to be!
I'm done grinding your Dil for you! (at least for now)
The Dilithium Exchange allows you to anonymously trade dilithium and zen at the best ratio available. Nothing more, nothing less.
That's not a control mechanism but the limit of its scope of functionality.
As a Dev has stated: The reason it works the way it does is to prevent abuse of the system: Like gold-farmers transferring dilithium/zen.
The only thing you're allowed to is anonymously trade it at the best ratio available.
That's the end of it.
Within the boundaries of its functionality the market is free. Cryptic does not do trading there.
I don't say this because I blindly believe Cryptic; I say it because there's no advantage to Cryptic in doing so.
He's dead, Jim.
I fully agree that Cryptic doesn't manipulate the market directly by injecting trades into it. However, they do control it quite a bit, because they control the scarcity and value of Dilithium for other purposes, which directly affects the supply of Dilithium for trade. They also control the value of Zen for other purposes. They also have some control over the scarcity of Zen, but they have never done anything that would reduce this, such as putting a cap on how much you can buy or transfer to STO, and they're not likely to ever do so.
If Dilithium is needed for character progression in an area in which a substantial portion of the playerbase have not finished progressing, that makes it more valuable. With no proportional increase in supply, that makes it scarce for Zen trading. That's a decision Cryptic made; they increased both the amount of Dil needed for character progression and the sources of getting more, but they increase the former far more than the latter.
I'm not saying Cryptic did anything wrong; expensive Dil benefits Cryptic more than cheap Dil, and the fact that people are still buying so much of it means Cryptic hasn't annoyed the paying customers into not paying. But it's disingenuous to say that Cryptic has no control over the market. They have tremendous control over it, they just don't DIRECTLY do so by injecting trades.
I'll agree they affect the economy a lot; economic conditions, supply, demand - they have at least some control about these factors - but that's not part of the Dilithium Exchange per se, but the larger economy.
The players response to Cryptics changes (to the economy) is what cause the exchange ratio to shift, but this does not mean Cryptic controls the dilithium exchange.
A bit of hair-splitting is necessary in this case. :P
He's dead, Jim.
Supply and demand of dilithium is driven by Criptic. It doesn't mater if there is more dil ore available today than before S7 because the same CAP persists. If you can only refine 8000 a day and all fleet, reputation, dil store items cost dilithium than the market as a whole is not player driven.
A lot of items became more expansive dilithium wise, all new items offered on the fleet and reputation systems cost a lot of dilithium and that was not the reality before.
Before the new system we had the store on DS9 that was the only place to get the best gear. The gear used to cost EDC, rare and prototype salvage and tech only and you could keep the dil. Now those items cost dilithium also.
So, what Criptic did was remove your ability to get top gear in a timely fashion and replaced it with a cruel dilithium grind. Before, when you ran a STF on Elite you got 1 ou 2 EDC, 1440 dil, some rare or very rare salvage and maybe a tech. That salvage could be traded by a MK XI or MK XII very rare weapon. A full borg set used to cost 15 EDC (5 EDC a piece).
Now, a MK XII weapon from the rep store costs almost 30k dil (3.75 days of ref. cap). A MK XII borg set costs 97.500 dil (more than 12 days of ref. cap), 2700 Omega Marks (almost 30 elite STFs with optional) and 15 BNPs.
That is the same as if a say to you: Your monthly salary will remain 10.000 dollars but this car's cost will go from 20.000 to 200.000 dollars starting tomorrow, and I'm the only car dealer in the world. Have a nice day!
Member since Jan 24th 2010 (more or less)
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