test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Are Consoles Stackable?
glasswords
Member Posts: 43 Arc User
Okay, here are a couple questions that I've had for a while and I haven't been able to find an answer to. With no DPS meter available I'm having a hard time telling from general play.
Can you stack consoles?
Do two +25% Plasma Damage consoles = +50% plasma damage or is the second one negated?
Do the different PvE species have weapon type damage resistance?
(i.e. Species X has a built in resilience to Plasma damage)
It would be nice to see a sticky thread with these kind of questions and answers.
Thank you and Happy New Year!
Can you stack consoles?
Do two +25% Plasma Damage consoles = +50% plasma damage or is the second one negated?
Do the different PvE species have weapon type damage resistance?
(i.e. Species X has a built in resilience to Plasma damage)
It would be nice to see a sticky thread with these kind of questions and answers.
Thank you and Happy New Year!
Post edited by glasswords on
0
Comments
Defensive consoles like Neutronium Alloys and Field Generators give diminishing returns when you stack them. One console will give the full bonus. A second console will give a smaller bonus, a third console will give an even smaller bonus.
This is to prevent perfect tanks. If defensive consoles didn't have diminishing returns then someone could get a cruiser with 5 engineering consoles and fit 5 neutronium alloys and get 100% hull resistance against all damage.
This is also one reason why combat favors high DPS ships. A ship with more tactical consoles is just in general more useful in combat than a ship with fewer tactical consoles.
As far as I know, NPC's don't have any special damage resistances. Unless they use an ability like polarize hull or something that temporarily adds damage resistance. But I don't believe they use armor consoles. Again I'm not 100% sure on this.
Elite Defense Stovokor
It would be nice if every console just stated it openly. "This console will increase your in-combat dual heavy cannon damage to x,TRIBBLE." "This console will increase your plasma resistance to xx%". It's all well and good to assess these things when you have them equipped on a mission, but that doesn't help you decide whether to pay someone's outrageous price for the stupid thing.
Most NPCs have no damage resistance other than the usual 10-15% passive resists that EVERYONE has. There are a few exceptions, like the Jem'hadar NPCs tend to be a little tankier, but that's because they all use the Jem'hadar set, so they gain more passive resists, but there are some NPCs that have VERY high resistance to all damage. And those would be the Borg. As far as I can remember, it would seem that the Borg have at least a passive 25% resistance to all damage, energy and kinetic. The only reason I know this is because I hit a Borg npc, and I do X damage. Then I use the same weapon, same power settings, same range, same everything, smack another NPC and I do X + a little more. Probably should do more tests to confirm this.
both are wrong, the second atleast gave an explanation, which is true, but has nothing to do with diminishing returns.
science and tac consoles stack without a diminishing return, but the tac consoles have a percentage value that counts always from the base dmg, which means that each console will add a certain number regardless of how many of the same consoles are already equipped.
If 25% phaser dmg adds 90 dmg to your phaser cannon, 4 consoles will add 360 dmg. Same goes for the turnrate console.
i can only asume that the 2 fellows above do not know the definition of deminishing returns
this will shed some light on resistance values aswell
i'm not 100% sure, but if you skilled dmg resistance via skilltree, the armor consoles you equip will give already less bonus. but as i said, not 100% sure.
*edit: well it does, just checked it ingame...neutronium armor (17.5) added only 11,1% to all energy resistances (which i skilled for 7 points = 11,8%+2%) and added 14.3% to the kinetic resistance (which i didn't skill, started at 2%)
so i asume either kinetic resistance scales differently, or the values from the skilltree are not ignored by the diminishing return.
The percentage of increase over the total amount decreases with each console. So, it absolutely does diminish if you're looking at the percentage of the total.
and you call that a diminishing return? srsly?
lol, i just realized, what you suggest there means that anything that does not grow exponentially is/has a diminishing return!
ofcourse 4x 25% does not mean 100% more dmg, but again that is not a diminishing return
noun
1. any rate of profit, production, benefits, etc., that beyond a certain point fails to increase proportionately with added investment, effort, or skill.
2. Also called law of diminishing returns. Economics . the fact, often stated as a law or principle, that when any factor of production, as labor, is increased while other factors, as capital and land, are held constant in amount, the output per unit of the variable factor will eventually diminish.
Source.
One console gives a total of +20% of X. Two consoles give a total of +40% of X. Three consoles give a total of +60% of X. That is not diminishing returns, because you are still getting +20% of X per console. Each additional console does not suddenly give less than +20% of X.
What throws people off is that the % in the description is additive, not multiplicative. They go "The 2nd console is only giving me +16%, not +20%! The 3rd console is only giving me +14%, not +20%!" It's a mistake bought about by combine a fuzzy concept of diminishing returns with percentages.
Assume X is 100. One console gives a total of +20. Two consoles give a total of +40. Three consoles give a total of +60. It's exactly the same scenario as the above, but now it becomes obvious there is no diminishing returns, you are getting +20 per console. Each additional console does not suddenly give less than +20.
The only thing that suffers diminishing returns is Damage Resistance Magnitude itself, not the consoles. What is displayed on items is "Damage Resistance Magnitude" (even though it's not displayed as "Magnitude"), but it shows "Damage Resistance" on our Status screens. The Damage Resistance Magnitude granted by consoles stack without diminishing returns, (1 = +20, 2 = +40, 3 = +60, etc.) but you get less actual Damage Resistance from each additional unit of Damage Resistance Magnitude.
So your Damage Resistance Magnitude increases linearly with each console, but you're suffering diminishing returns for the Damage Resistance Magnitude translating into actual Damage Resistance.
Fot tl;dr purpose:
Offensive and power consoles stack nicely.
Defensive consoles don't stack quite as nicely. (Each one you add will be less efficient than the previous one).
At least we all agree that two times twenty is something greater than twenty.
Yes, it is easy to prove that there are no tactical console diminishing returns. Just plot the damage curve as you add / remove consoles!
From http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=6976751
Don't take my word for it... you can plot your own numbers from the game and see for yourself!
EDIT: To the Forum Mods -- is there any way to sticky this info so that the answer doesn't keep getting forgotten?
keep also in mind, that resistance consoles work seperately from shields...if your shields never drop (thats basically the case in any normal PVE mission other than stfs) the armor consoles do NOTHING
Great rundown.. one thing you showed that I'd like to point out for everyone: even the FIRST +28.1% console only added roughly 8% observable DPS, and that's because it's +28.1% to base damage, whereas tooltip damage takes into account skills.
Think of it like this: Damage=Base Damage*(Skill%Increase+Console1+Console2+...)
The important things to know are:
1. any old +X% increase item/skill/ability you are considering will add much less than you think to your current DPS
2. these items that add much less than you think are still adding their full value (i.e. you get just as much more DPS from console 1 and console 3)
I never bothered to check, as any bleed damage I took always had an energy type, and it showed two values, I assumed this was due to the resistance reduction.
So are you saying now that armor does not decrease bleed damage?
Hover your mouse cursor over the weapon's fire icon in your power tray while you're sitting in tactical space.
Joined January 2009
You use the /combatlog 1 command to start logging, and /combatlog 0 to stop. I'm not at home so I can't double-check, but it should be in your game's directory under Live/Logs or something. Your game directory depends on if you installed it through Steam or whatnot.
To parse that log you can use STO Integrated Combat Software or grab the ACT plug in for use with the Advanced Combat Tracker.
I personally use ACT, not only because I came across it first, but because STOICS makes my eyes bleed.