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baconfrozen
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
I remember being ultra stoked for this game back in 2007. You could stay down in engineering if you wanted to be an engineer? Oh yes. Players could optionally work together to control a ship? Awesome. Ship interiors that stayed true to the series? Great!
However, life caught up and I didn't get a chance to try out the game until now. I am satisfied with the final result, but what ever happened to the things that they were working on during development? Can I ever live my dream of looking at anti-matter levels all day as an engineer? I see the only thing that survived from when I last looked at the game was the ability to have player replace the NPC officers, but even then that is nothing as I expected.
Are there any plans to implement these old features, or were they tossed a long time ago? I do enjoy the game but I would really like it if I could control my ship entirely through the bridge, at least... Heck, I'd rather just have them get rid of sector space and have that area be controlled through a map on the bridge.
Speaking of bridges, why are they so ridiculously huge? The captain's ready room is perfect size but the bridge and the hallways are extremely spacious. Like earth spaceport spacious. A lot of players wont be running through the individual ships, no need for them to be that big. It isn't that big of a deal but I have no idea what the devs were thinking with that one.
I still enjoy the game overall (ended up purchasing a subscription), but it really isn't what I expected.
However, life caught up and I didn't get a chance to try out the game until now. I am satisfied with the final result, but what ever happened to the things that they were working on during development? Can I ever live my dream of looking at anti-matter levels all day as an engineer? I see the only thing that survived from when I last looked at the game was the ability to have player replace the NPC officers, but even then that is nothing as I expected.
Are there any plans to implement these old features, or were they tossed a long time ago? I do enjoy the game but I would really like it if I could control my ship entirely through the bridge, at least... Heck, I'd rather just have them get rid of sector space and have that area be controlled through a map on the bridge.
Speaking of bridges, why are they so ridiculously huge? The captain's ready room is perfect size but the bridge and the hallways are extremely spacious. Like earth spaceport spacious. A lot of players wont be running through the individual ships, no need for them to be that big. It isn't that big of a deal but I have no idea what the devs were thinking with that one.
I still enjoy the game overall (ended up purchasing a subscription), but it really isn't what I expected.
Post edited by baconfrozen on
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So to answer your question, pretty much, yeah, ALL the stuff that you remember hearing about all those years ago, was dropped when the game changed hands.
For good or for ill is up to you, but that's how it happened.
I have doubts that a lot of the early ideas would have actually worked in a successful MMO. But if you want micromanagement, the doff system allows you to fiddle with starship operations and avoid missions almost entirely if you want.
Bridges are oversized because they wanted to be able to have gameplay (like combat) on them while allowing the third-person camera room to move. A few missions involve fighting on someone else's bridge, but considering your personal bridge isn't used for that, the original decision was probably more problematic than helpful.
Artists have since been able to squeeze the interiors down closer to canon dimensions. Sizes are much better in some of the more recent bridges (TOS and Belfast/defiant class), but bridges don't come out often these days, so the vast majority are still super huge relics of the old style.
Conjoined, Re-emergence, and . . .
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I wanted to be a doctor.
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Keep in mind most of the responsibilities of a 'simple science officer' in a video game would probably be the same sort of stuff you're doing on New Romulus. Would it suddenly be more fun if it fit your officer's job description?
Conjoined, Re-emergence, and . . .
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I don't know if anyone would PLAY them, but you could!
An interesting challenge would be to use the engineering as a skin over what amounts to a puzzle game.
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
Didn't Spock and Data spend most of their time endangering their lives on away missions? What did you want to do, play a 'scan for lifeforms' mini-game over and over?
While singing the little ditty "Lifeforms. Pretty little Lifeforms, Where are you?"
Absolutely. Hey, if Data can do it, so can we.
The Armada
Original join date: Feb 5, 2010
Twitter: @davejl_99, & @STO_BBArmada
It could have worked.
As an example of how it could have been done, imagine the game now but instead of having a ship 'paper doll' you have an Engineering Dept. Warp Engines, Warp Core, computer systems, deflector etc. - all upgradable and tied into a crafting system that allowed you to enhance and build entirely new components.
Instead of the current missions, you'd have engineering (or science/medical etc.) specific away team missions where you'd beam down with two Boffs that you'd recruited from SFA and trained much as you do now and two red-shirt security officers (who could be Boff AI's or tactical players).
The rest of the department could've been handled via a career-specific Doff system similar to what we have now.
Of course, to do this would effectively have been creating multiple 'factions' - something that Cryptic wasn't able to do even with the relatively simple structure they created - they just weren't able to create the volume of content needed to make the current design viable (let alone something bigger in scope).
Hopefully some day another team will give it a shot - who knows, if the JJ version of Trek leads to more movies and TV shows then it might happen - won't be for a long time though.
Yeah, folks know this is a MMO right? How many folks would have spent 15 bucks a month to play ensign cleaning waste extraction on the night shift?
People spend 15 bucks a month to run around a pick flowers in other MMOs. If you think it is fun, why not?
most game designers get locked in to this point of view that everyone wants to be the hero that's why we get tank, dps, healer ad nauseam and mmo never really feel like living worlds. I would be vary happy to play a mmo where crafting/merchant was a class all to it self or how about instead of just 3 classes for combat there was a 4th that was simply a combat modifier class with buffs and debuffs.
For example I'm a tac captain, why can't I go to a tactical console and remodulate the phaser emitters to deal 50% more damage to the borg, or if I already have that done, why can't I then remodulate it to do more damage against Klingons? Or maybe I'm a tac captain that is also well versed in engineering and I come up with a revolutionary new intermix that'll squeeze out transwarp 15.1 even thou it might overload a few EPS conduits so I go down to engineering and talk to my chief engineer who then figures out a solution to the eps overload so we attempt the modifications.
Or maybe you're a Science Captain specializing in medicine and there was a warp core breach on the U.S.S. <insert ship name> and you're the only ship within range so you go rescue the survivors and then go to sickbay to help treat the wounded.
Or maybe you're an engineering captain who's ship just went through a major battle with the Borg, you limp to <insert planet name here> and beam down to gather supplies. Even yet while you're down gathering supplies you're fleetmate shows up in the U.S.S <insert name here> and since they're a science captain with medical skills they beam over to your ship to help with the injured. Or you got your TRIBBLE handed to you in an elite STF and you're 5 mins from a warp core breach so you rush down to engineering, reinitialize the containment field and save the ship and crew.
The point I'm trying to make is the O.P. is bringing up a very good point, there is A LOT more that could be done other than just combat. Not saying I would want to adjust warp core settings for hours, but having these bits mixed in could really evolve this game into something much greater than what it is.
Don't get me wrong I really like this game, but there is still SOOOO much untapped potential that I would gladly wait a season for the next grindfest to have something implemented like this that would really give the game some depth.
As for the size of the bridge, the TOS bridge is pretty neat and cannon. I just wish we could interact with all of the departments/consoles on the bridge and throughout the ship.
:rolleyes:
Guilds/fleets/clans (however you want to classify them) are actually a ship's crew. One ship. Every crew member picks a class, and each class is equally decent in action situations, but once on the ship - they assume they stations.
This is where "crafting" begins. Each class will use different "crafting materials" and perform their own research and development. This process takes a while, and having more people in the same post slightly speeds up the process (slightly is the keyword, in order to minimize extra-large groups being overpowered). The main point of crafting would be to benefit the ship, as this is how upgrades would be conducted. Engineers would conduct R&D on engine/shield technologies and subsequently improve its capabilities.
These materials are picked up on different planets, or by doing regular missions. So everyone gets to participate in either space combat missions, ground combat, or exploration/diplomacy.
Same concept of random space encounters would occur, but the combat would be done on ship. Each member of the crew would control certain aspect of the ship, and the combat would be a lot more like Bridge Commander. As for ground combat, current model in STO should suffice.
Ah.. one can dream
Because it's just a game
I ask you how balancing anti matter levels to maintain a core efficiency level is any different than a skill/ability rotation that maintains ship power and DPS/Buffs/Heals at an optimal rate.
The difference is illusionary. One involves staring at a console screen and seeing the warp core colour show speed up or slow down or something, the other involves seeing ships in space animate their weapons firing and other abilities.
The problem most people face with the intellectual concepts behind being a dedicated engineer or science or tactical officer is that even in MMOs most people aren't really that into team work. Its the hero mentality. We're a bunch of heroes who do heroic stuff and need to do it with each other in order to overcome the annoying fact that my hero character can't kill everything, at least not in group content.
People who want to play as engineers actually want to be just a cog in a machine. Its a concept that actually would work just fine in an MMO, it would just be a very niche MMO, and few publishers ever really bother trying to corner that market. Most MMOs are the same not because thats the only way to design them but because thats the way you chase the largest subscriber market.
Fact is though that there is a game out there that creates the bridge officer effect for multiplayer. Everyone gets a console, one guy is the captain, etc. I forget what its called, but its very nerdy.
I'd make the capital ships in that Perpetual vein.
But every player would have their own fighter/shuttle to go off and be the big hero in.
Now... I think that would mean a very different cash shop model.
But basically, if you want to run a Galaxy/Sovereign/Odyssey/Defiant/Intrepid class ship, you do it as a team, playing minigames.
And then we'd have lots of shuttles and fighters for the solo player who wants action.
I think it solves a lot of problems fairly eloquently. Including how you make the player feel like a hero without soloing 20 K'vorts and Birds of Prey in a mission.
You balance the enemies more 1 to 1. But the player is in a SHUTTLE/FIGHTER. So instead of making the player feel heroic with raw numbers, you do it by making them a shuttle pilot who can 1 v 1 full scale ships.
And heavy cruisers, carriers, and Borg ships would require teamwork.
I think this would also help with the visuals. Because capital ships would be the scale of something like Earth Spacedock and much more rare, enabling a higher polygon budget for screen accuracy. Whereas the player ships, being shuttles, could feel more diverse without breaking the setting.
Again, I could see this game happening, but it would have to be it's own IP. Star Trek is all about the Captains and Crew, not the Red Shirts. And that's basically what the game would be doing. Turning everyone into redshirts.
And no one want's to be a redshirt.
This is also why I have an issue with ship costumes, and why they limit the game. If every ship had only one model, we could have full scale variants of every ship for EVA suit missions and all kinds of other stuff.
This is exactly what I imagined when I thought of a star trek MMO.
Right now I would just be happy if I could sit on the bridge and navigate through sector space.
I think you could make a Star Trek game about Redshirts or augments or the Dominion War from the Dominion POV. It creates an added hurdle but one that can be overcome with quality.
But TNG (movies excluded) wasn't, really.
I'd say...
TNG was about the ensemble.
TOS was about the captain.
The other series were somewhere inbetween.
yeah, in this game you're Kirk. That's why you go on so many away missions and make all the decisions yourself. Even if you did have a hybrid model how may folks would want to play captain and why would anyone else want to play another role? And what happens when those players on your ship aren't on line?
As it is now with the current model it seems the vast majority of folks are still Tactical captains because that's the class that generally blows more stuff up.
If folks would really like to RGP as dreary Lt junior grade Picard then I say go make some foundry missions and RPG your brains out.
Then it would be a game about Redshirts or augments or the Dominion War from the Dominion POV.
It wouldn't be an MMO.
I think there's room for more than one Star Trek MMO, even.
You could have, in theory, a Dominion MMO or a Eugenics War MMO or an MMO about being a redshirt on a single ship.
The "Captain" thing only works if the idea is a bird's eye view of all of Star Trek.
And I see one problem with this game as being that it aspires to be "All of Star Trek" Online.
Instead of "A Really Well Done Slice of Star Trek" Online.
I mean, they could have made the MMO about prehistoric Star Trek and made it a fantasy game.
Set it on a planet where ancient Romulans riding Seh'lats and armed with psi swords get thrust against the lost, crashed survivors of one ship from the Dominion. And it's Elves vs. Orcs. And both groups have been stranded so long that all their technology has been reduced to legends. And that fits the standard MMO mode pretty readily. It could be entirely swords and sorcery.
That would be John Carter of Mars the MMO. Though honestly... that would be a pretty cool MMO.
The thing is, if it didn't try to be an "all of Star Trek" MMO, I think it would have a hard time succeeding. That being said, I think it would be a whole lot better off if it tried to be it's own self under the Star Trek umbrella. If it took the Sierra and Antares uniforms, and replaced them all with the Odyssey uniforms, and took time with the non-combat stuff, and made the game world truly feel like the Star Trek Universe, then I think it would be a whole lot better.
Those ideas from 2007 were scrapped when Cryptic took over. They were under a contract to launch at a certain date so they had to do the best they could with their existing game engine which does not allow for some of those features. And some things were simply decided against, such as being an engineer turning a wrench down in engineering.
They decided to go with 'fun' and 'development time' over 'simulation'. So we ended up the 3 usual MMO classes of Tank (engineer), Damage (tactical), Heal (science) instead of more highly detailed jobs such as different types of engineers, a Doctor and Science Officer that are entirely different classes to play, etc. And we got 'bridges' that are actually ground maps which are completely separate from space and your ship. Not to mention 3rd Person View Space Combat where instead of piloting the ship from inside YOU ARE THE SHIP from the outside.
As for why bridges are so huge? First, Cryptic said it was to allow big monsters through doors and into rooms for combat missions. Then they said the camera would bug out if rooms got smaller. Then they said the majority of MMO players like to play zoomed all the way out and that cannot be done with small interiors. Maybe Cryptic developed STO using Time Lord 'bigger on the inside' software? :P
Overall I think Cryptic did a decent job with STO but those old ideas like controlling your ship from the bridge keep getting posted on the forums. And the idea of being down in engineering with a wrench hasn't gone away nor has the idea of running the bridge and your ship with friends. Perhaps that level of simulation would be fun to some and boring to others. I think it would be awesome to have the option of both.
Hopefully in the coming years CBS will decide to have Star Trek Online: 2 created. And this time they can hire a development studio that has enough time and resources to build a Trek MMO from the ground up. One which is centered around simulating more of what we see in the shows. More than 3 types of officers to play, Online friends manning each bridge station, Interiors to scale and canon, An unknown vessel approaching on the main viewscreen, And before you know it - BOOM! - Consoles around you explode and the bridge shakes! - You and your friends are off to a new adventure and every one of you will have a critical part to play if the ship is to survive! AWESOME!