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Proposal for a new Cardassian Set

kamiyama317kamiyama317 Member Posts: 1,295 Arc User
I expect that eventually the Cardassians will be a faction we can gain reputation with, so I would like to propose the following 3 piece space set for that faction as a reward:

Cardassian Positron Deflector Array
This Positron deflector has been modified to not only enhance the rugged durability of traditional Cardassian warships, but it also improves the output of several key auxiliary systems.

+32 Structural Integrity
+28 Starship Shield Systems
+28 Subspace Decompiler
+24 Particle Generators
+16 Inertial Dampeners

(the idea is that it has bonuses to hull and shield hitpoints like a positron array, but also has a good bonus to subspace decompiler and particle generators to buff science abilities.)

Cardassian Hyper-Impulse Engine
This miracle of Cardassian Engineering allows the ship to accelerate much faster at impulse speeds than most other craft of its size. At first glance it is easy to under-estimate the speed at which a Cardassian Cruiser can move and it is nearly always the last mistake that its enemy will make.

+24 Starship Impulse Thrusters
+15 Flight Speed
(Efficient at high power levels)
+2.5 Engine Power
+7.5 additional Engine Power
(bonus increases at low engine power)
+4.8 Flight Turn Rate
Full Impulse
All Power to Engines
+101 Flight Speed
Diverts all power to engines

(the idea is that this engine is FAST. It should be much faster than any other engine in combat with a bonus to Starship Impulse Engines, a high base speed, and being efficient at high engine power)

Cardassian Regenerative Shield Array
The Cardassian union simply never developed shield technology equivalent to the Federation. While this shield possesses relatively low shield strength, it has been optimized to regenerate quickly and resist torpedo fire. Additionally, a focus on reinforcing the ship's structural integrity field allows the hull to withstand additional impact.

+24 Structural Integrity
~5000 Maximum Shield Capacity (With a 1.0 shield modifier)
~250 Shield Regeneration every 6 seconds (at 50 shield power)
Reduces Kinetic damage to shields by 20%
10% Bleedthrough

(the idea is that this shield can thwart a finishing torpedo salvo by regenerating enough additional shield points at the last second to withstand the impact. Cardassian shields could never withstand Federation energy weapons very well according to canon)

2 Piece Set Bonus:
Genetic Resequencing Medical Bay
Cardassians are well known for their genetic engineering, and their ships boast impressive medical bays capable of rapidly growing entire limbs and cloned organs. This allows starship crew to heal much faster than normal.

Passive
+200% Crew regeneration rate (dead and disabled crewmen recover three times as fast as normal)

3 Piece Set Bonus:
Plans Within Plans
The Cardassian Military is notorious for laying overly-complicated traps involving holo projections and sensor ghosts. When their enemy is sufficiently confused, they strike with overwhelming ruthlessness. By employing these dastardly tactics you believe you can briefly gain the upper hand in a conflict.

Affects Self and Foe
3 minute recharge
+4875 Stealth
-20 weapon power setting
-20 shield power setting
-20 engine power setting
Creates a photonic displacement of your ship for up to 15 seconds
Creates 5 cloaked level X photon mines (not affected by BO abilities)

* I was also thinking a 4 piece set bonus might be in order, if you use it on a galor cruiser. It could give a bonus hull repair and damage for spiral wave disruptors. Maybe something like this:

Shades of Obsidian (or something cooler, I'm not good at naming things...)
passive
+15.2 Starship Hull Repair
+7.6% Spiral Wave Disruptor Damage
________________________________________________

So what do you think? Personally I favor the deflector, and I would use it on my science ship in a heartbeat. But the set overall favors cruisers, as a Cardassian themed set should, I think.

*EDIT: I added a turn rate bonus to the engine. I also added a bleedthrough percentage on the shield.
Post edited by kamiyama317 on

Comments

  • poopbangpoopbang Member Posts: 300 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Visual effects?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • kamiyama317kamiyama317 Member Posts: 1,295 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    I think the devs are better at coming up with visual effects than I am. But yes I think it should have special visuals.
  • poopbangpoopbang Member Posts: 300 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Yeah, and Devs, Don't 35% it like with the Breen set. Give us full visuals [Deflector, Shields, Engines].
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • pegasussgcpegasussgc Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    I like this set idea. The visuals should be yellow like Cardassian ships.
  • tc10btc10b Member Posts: 1,549 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    I find the engine a bit confusing. It's a hyper engine but you want to give it an efficiency boost when run at low power levels not sure how that would actually work in practice.

    Perhaps if like the Aegis Shield it gave a +7.6 Engine Performance Buff instead that might work better as it's an overall increase in engine power.

    If the engine provided no turn rate buff, you wouldn't want to use it on something like the Galor because it would never turn! The only ships that wouldn't be affected by turn rate bonuses are escorts and shuttles. The turn rate bonus is always set by ship class so you'd have to factor it in somehow.
  • kamiyama317kamiyama317 Member Posts: 1,295 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    tc10b wrote: »
    I find the engine a bit confusing. It's a hyper engine but you want to give it an efficiency boost when run at low power levels not sure how that would actually work in practice.

    Perhaps if like the Aegis Shield it gave a +7.6 Engine Performance Buff instead that might work better as it's an overall increase in engine power.

    If the engine provided no turn rate buff, you wouldn't want to use it on something like the Galor because it would never turn! The only ships that wouldn't be affected by turn rate bonuses are escorts and shuttles. The turn rate bonus is always set by ship class so you'd have to factor it in somehow.

    No think about it. A lot of people don't like shoving tons of power into engines. Rather than a flat +5 power bonus to engines, you get nearly +10 if you are running at less than 50 engine power.

    It's better to use Hyper-Impulse if your engine power is over 50. This efficiency bonus makes it easier to get your engine power over 50, and have lots of power left over to put into another subsystem, if that's what you want to do.

    As for not having a turn rate, every item needs a drawback. Every set engine in the game right now, has a turn rate bonus, which doesn't quite make sense to me, but if the devs feel it should have one, then they can add one. But I thought the focus should be on combat speed over everything else.

    *also, +7.6 to the engine performance stat is nothing. Its like a fraction of a single point of engine power. The +7.5 at low power levels is whole points of engine power, especially under 50 engine power.

    *EDIT: You are right about the turn rate though. I checked and it seems all engines in the game add a turn rate bonus. Oops. That's what I get for not researching. Thanks for the feedback!
  • mimey2mimey2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Hmm, that is a pretty nice set actually. I could see some really good things from that. Especially on a Galor itself. I mean, 250 regen alone with the Omega Regen is gonna be pushing 500 total, maybe 600 or 700, before buffing shields past 50 or adding in other things.

    Even so, that is gonna be bordering on the realm of 2,500 shields or so regained every 6 seconds, which is awesome.

    5,000 does seem a wee bit low, like maybe TOO low. I can understand wanting to keep it lower because of the mega-regen there, but it's almost bordering on like the Borg-shields kinda low. But this is also without other buffs to it, like skills, consoles, etc.

    Still, an excellent set.
    I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
    I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
  • tc10btc10b Member Posts: 1,549 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    I don't like shoving power into engines but sometimes it's a necessary evil, especially on big slow cruisers.

    I was thinking a flat bonus might be better due to the fact if you have high points in performance and efficiency like I do then engine power is usually about 55/25 so I wouldn't gain much from the engine by running it at "low" power levels. Running something at a low power level when it's efficient at high just seems counter productive.

    I do like the +24 impulse thrusters as this will increase speed and turn with the engine which make it more awesome on cruisers like the Galor.

    Shields intrinsically have an extremely high resistance to kinetic damage, so I don't think you need to put that on a shield for the desired effect. The two piece bonus sounds awesome but until they actually have a "real" purpose for alive crewman it seems rather useless like emergency forcefields.

    I really do like the idea of the set though and the prospect of a Cardassian Rep system!
  • hereticknight085hereticknight085 Member Posts: 3,783 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    This intrigues me enough that I shall keep on watching this thread.
    It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once. B)
  • quiscustodietquiscustodiet Member Posts: 350
    edited December 2012
    You're right in that we need more gear sets.
    And a Cardassian set is a good idea.

    That said:

    - Deflector: It's MACO on 'roids.
    Instead of super-MACO, I think it'd be more interesting to have different stats.
    A pure dedicated Science Deflector, maybe?
    Ok, there's the Breen Deflector, but the Breen Set is just terrible.

    Auxiliary Power+5
    Graviton Generators+26
    Particle Generators+26
    Flow Capacitors+19.2
    Subspace Decompiler+16.8
    Countermeasure Systems+8.8

    Something like that?

    - Engines:
    1. You can't have Engines without a Turn. Engines play too essential a role in a Ship's Turn rate for that.
    2. Why complicate matters? I understand the idea was speed (though I wouldn't associate Cardassians with speed, personally), but why spread it in 4 components (base Speed, Impulse Thrusters, Engine Power, Efficiency Engine Power)? Do away with the Impulse Thrusters & fixed Engine Power+2.5 and raise the base speed, same effect.
    3. On the other hand, Hyper-Impulse Engines are meant to have lower base speeds (more than compensated by the high mod on Engine Power).

    Tbh, I'd scrap the idea to make them too fast.
    Personally, I'd make them Combat Impulse; relatively low Speed/Turn (lower Speed than Jem'Hadar Engines, same Turn), but with some other bonuses; maybe Shield and Aux Power?


    Oh, and it's become pretty much standard to have some sort of Warp bonus on (new) set Engines.

    - Shields.
    Structural Integrity on Shields makes little sense. No big deal, though, as many things already make little sense.
    Otherwise, they're fine. You forgot to stipulate bleedthrough.

    To other posters: be aware that the numbers currently on the STO Wiki aren't base numbers: 5000 cap is actually pretty high for a Regen shield; for reference:
    Borg: 4725 cap, 246 Regen, +5 Shield Power
    Omega: 5765 cap, 225 Regen
    Proposed Cardassian: 5000 cap, 250 Regen => not bad at all, in fact probably stronger than both above Shields.


    - 2-piece set.
    Very UP.
    Crew Regen, even a huge amount of it, is little incentive to use 2 pieces of a set.

    - 3-piece set.
    Should be fine.


    I was thinking a flat bonus might be better due to the fact if you have high points in performance and efficiency like I do then engine power is usually about 55/25

    You'd get the full 7.5, actually. Those "bonus power at low levels" (see Jem'Hadar Engines) are proportional to the base level you set the Power at.
    They're basically a large Efficiency boost.
    Since this creature is immune to subtility and too cowardly to answer PMs, let's take the direct approach: pwebranflakes: you're a moron and I'd really rather be spared your "affections".
  • kamiyama317kamiyama317 Member Posts: 1,295 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    You're right in that we need more gear sets.
    And a Cardassian set is a good idea.

    That said:

    - Deflector: It's MACO on 'roids.
    Instead of super-MACO, I think it'd be more interesting to have different stats.
    A pure dedicated Science Deflector, maybe?
    Ok, there's the Breen Deflector, but the Breen Set is just terrible.

    Auxiliary Power+5
    Graviton Generators+26
    Particle Generators+26
    Flow Capacitors+19.2
    Subspace Decompiler+16.8
    Countermeasure Systems+8.8

    Something like that?

    - Engines:
    1. You can't have Engines without a Turn. Engines play too essential a role in a Ship's Turn rate for that.
    2. Why complicate matters? I understand the idea was speed (though I wouldn't associate Cardassians with speed, personally), but why spread it in 4 components (base Speed, Impulse Thrusters, Engine Power, Efficiency Engine Power)? Do away with the Impulse Thrusters & fixed Engine Power+2.5 and raise the base speed, same effect.
    3. On the other hand, Hyper-Impulse Engines are meant to have lower base speeds (more than compensated by the high mod on Engine Power).

    Tbh, I'd scrap the idea to make them too fast.
    Personally, I'd make them Combat Impulse; relatively low Speed/Turn (lower Speed than Jem'Hadar Engines, same Turn), but with some other bonuses; maybe Shield and Aux Power?


    Oh, and it's become pretty much standard to have some sort of Warp bonus on (new) set Engines.

    - Shields.
    Structural Integrity on Shields makes little sense. No big deal, though, as many things already make little sense.
    Otherwise, they're fine. You forgot to stipulate bleedthrough.

    To other posters: be aware that the numbers currently on the STO Wiki aren't base numbers: 5000 cap is actually pretty high for a Regen shield; for reference:
    Borg: 4725 cap, 246 Regen, +5 Shield Power
    Omega: 5765 cap, 225 Regen
    Proposed Cardassian: 5000 cap, 250 Regen => not bad at all, in fact probably stronger than both above Shields.


    - 2-piece set.
    Very UP.
    Crew Regen, even a huge amount of it, is little incentive to use 2 pieces of a set.

    - 3-piece set.
    Should be fine.

    I wouldn't mind a pure science deflector, but I though a Positron-type deflector would fit with the whole theme of the set better. The set has two large bonuses to Structural Integrity, which would really help a cruiser tank its hull more. But again if they did pure science that would be fine, though I would like its largest bonus to be to Subspace Decompiler, myself. (just a personal preference)

    Yeah I added a turn rate after I realized all engines are supposed to get one. My thinking on the engine is that a Hyper-Impulse with a high base speed and both a flat bonus and an efficiency bonus to engine power would help you squeeze more speed out of the engine no matter what you set your base engine power too. They could do away with the bonus to impulse thrusters if they want too, I just thought that was a cool idea too.

    I did a comparison between the Assimilated Shield and a Very Rare Mark XI Regenerative Shield and this is what I got, I put them both on a Mirror Universe Star Cruiser with a x1.0 shield modifier:

    Assimilated Shield - 5350 capacity, 278.6 regen @53 effective shield power
    Very Rare Mark XI Regenerative - 4815 capacity, 222.9 regen @48 effective shield power

    So I gave the approximation for the Cardassian Regenerative Shield to be in the middle there somewhere, about 5000 shield capacity, about 250 regen at 50 shield power. So it actually falls a little short of the Assimilated Shield, but would be better than a Mark XI Regenerative. As for the kinetic damage bonus and SIF bonus, I thought that would be more in line with what they might have used during the Dominion War, since the Cardassians didn't have very good shield technology at that time. But I'm open to changes so if they want to put different bonuses on it, that's fine too.

    I did reference the Memory Alpha page on Cardassians, and while it was very informative, there just isn't much known about Cardassian technology in canon... So I tried to decide what bonuses for the gear would be more likely something they would have used. The set bonuses do reference things actually know about the Cardassians, though. They were good at genetic engineering and were known for setting traps.

    If the 2-piece set bonus isn't that good, maybe they could spice it up a bit. Maybe it could also allow you to replicate regenerators, or give a skill bonus or something.

    Thanks for the feedback! I appreciate all the responses.
  • dma1986dma1986 Member Posts: 541 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    This intrigues me enough that I shall keep on watching this thread.
    Hopefully a dev will watch it, too.

    I like the idea, and there are a couple of ways to integrate it too. Either into another factional rep system, or put the bits into the Cardassian arc in the same way as the Jem sets (Jemmie's more the last part of the arc, so this could go at the start). You could probably even split it, in the same way the Reman shield is from a mission, but the other bits are rep items.
  • row124row124 Member Posts: 77 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    I completely agree. The Cardassians need a set. Plus there should also be an additional bonus if you add the set to the Cardassian Galor. I would like to encourage the devs to do this in light of the new lockbox.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 34,445 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    I was hoping for a less... traditional set.

    hehe.... toss in an item! http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Cardassian_ATR-4107

    Hehehe..... Too bad they didn't make more of those monsters! :D Having those as a non-hangar combat pet would be very interesting... :D
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • reginamala78reginamala78 Member Posts: 4,593 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Interesting idea, make for another rep faction maybe with the rebuilding of Cardassia still going strong. The Federation trying to reinforce growing ties and the Klingons saying 'bah, we can do it better!' If used that way, make it MACO/Omega/KHG level powerful, add some new variety to endgame sets.

    As for the set stuff, maybe use standard impulse engines since there are already so many Hyper and Combat engines in the various sets, and a deflector more oriented to the science tricks we see Galor and Keldon NPCs throw around rather than another 'make you tougher' deflector like we already have with MACO, Borg, and Aegis.

    As for the look, maybe kind of a gold-brown-ish hull tinting and a glowing red deflector, making ships look more Cardassian the way the Jem'Hadar Set has lots of Dominion Purple in it?

    Still, neat idea.
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