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fleet escort < defiant retrofit?
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Hi i'm new to sto - about a month. Recently hit lvl 50 and flying fleet escort, tactical captain. I'm concidering to get the defiant retrofit, but not so sure it is worth it. Really like my fleet escort and wondering is it better having cloak and slightly better turn vs more crue? And isn't having tactical ensign boff a waste over engeneiring(emergency power to shields)?
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What are you playing PvE or PvP?
If PvE are you doing STFs? If so what role?
What type of tac player are you, Spike Damage or Sustained Damage?
All these should be coming into play when making a choice. For my STFs I use the MVAM Fleet escort as I get access to Gravity Well which is always nice to have. The I use Multi Vetor Mode with consoles to support sustained damage and crowd control.
But at the same time I run a Retrofit as my spiker, everything is step up for speed. She hits as hard as possible in one pass then runs out rather then fighting.
So ya, play style you want for your ship and just your general area of play it really more important.
I am new myself but I have done heavy reading on build guides and I could conclude that the Defiant-R is best used as burst damage dealer, ideal for PVP, while Fleet Escort as sustained damage dealer, ideal for PVE, because it has more durability than Defiant-R.
I personally am aiming for Fleet Escort because I prefer survivability and flexibility over raw firepower.
100 vs 200 is nothing, 200 vs 1000 is still nothing.
I could fill a page with answers, reasons and solutions but don't base any decision on crew size.
For all intents and purposes in PVE the Defiant is Equal to the other Escorts at this level. Your paying for a Iconic looking classic that can cloak, rather than a drastically different play style. I would personally buy the MVAM over the Defiant.
For PvE stick with the Fleet Escort.
It has a great BOFF layout, and is a great, solid all around Escort for PvE.
You're not really giving up any 'raw firepower' by going with the Fleet Escort, just a bit of situational extra spike damage from de-cloaking (adds a damage bonus).
As a Tactical captain you have plenty of burst damage tools, and the Fleet Escort will allow you to chain 2x copies of EPTS 1 + Reverse Shield Polarity as an emergency shield recovery tool on STFs.
Even if the Defiant-R were a free ship, I would choose the Fleet Escort for STFs.
The Defiant-R is great for PvP. PvP is where this ship shines, and where the Spike damage and usefulness of cloaking take center stage.
Yes that's why I said for PvE stick with the Fleet Escort.
I have all phaser based weapons, with quantum torps, and all the appropriate consoles to support them; I saved up about 1mil ec from Exchange Sales before I acquired the Fleet Escort from my RA promotion and then went and put about 600,000 ec into outfitting the ship with all Rare and Extra Rare equipment; of all the best quality that I could find... best Quad Heavy Phasers, Quantum Torps, Combat Impulse Engine, and Covariant Shields; all maxed for my Level and Rank, as these all had the best stats out of others of their kind, and so on...
I have my BoFF's loaded up with things like High Yield Torp, Torp Spread, Attack Patterns Alpha, Beta, Gamma, Tactical Team, Engineering Team, Science Team, Emergency Power to Shields... and various other skills...
For the most part, I designed my ship through my BoFF's, and my own skills.. to be just a power house pouring out the DPS and withstanding as much incoming damage as possible...
As a result, my ship shines in PvE... and god have mercy on any PvE enemy who comes across my bow in range of my cannons...
Obviously, this has worked out beautifully in PvE where I can take down heavy Battleship's within a matter of seconds. I go into one of those "Enemy Contact" red vortex PvE things and just fly around blasting the hell out of every enemy in sight and usually, any other PvE Players who enter, typically end up following me around and assisting on my targets!
HOWEVER...
Last night, I tried out Ker'rat for the first time; being still new to the game, things like Ker'rat were unknown to me as I never bothered much with the "tutorial missions" at the beginning, and just skipped them.
So entering Ker'rat, I finally got my first taste of STO PvP; and I must say it was quite entertaining and a lot of fun!
But I learned rather quickly that PvE and PvP within STO are quite vastly different in terms of play style... as I went up against a Klingon Player flying a Vo'Quv Carrier loaded up with more To'duj fighters then I care to count!
Now the fighters were no problem, as they were easily picked off by my turrets and heaven have mercy, on any that flew across my bow in range of my cannons... and pray they stay away from my Torp Spread...
But the Vo'Quv itself...
That was a player who knew what he was doing, and while on my own I was no match against him. There were several instances where I accidently came across him while flying across the area by myself and suddenly he's decloaking right smack on top fo me! In such cases, I find myself swarmed by his Fighters, and barely able to put a dent in his shields while he's hammering the frickin hell out of mine!
The only way to take him down was when the rest of the Fed Players in my Ker'rat instance would rally together against him.
Now, I do not expect to be able to solo such a player and defeat them...
But I ought to at least be able to put up a good fight and do some damage to him?
For that matter, should I work towards acquiring a different ship? Obviously I won't get another "freebie" when I hit RAUH; so I'm stuck with my Fleet Escort for now; unless I somehow manage to acquire enough dilithium to go buy another ship... but for the casual player like myself, the time it takes to acquire such amounts is really sort of a waste of time as I usually Level up too fast and have access to another new "freebie" ship before I get 3000 dilithium...
I still have my Tactical Escort Defiant from Captain rank, but that is a step back from the Fleet Escort... but would it be better in PvP over the Fleet Escort?
Or would I just have to wait till I can acquire the Tactical Escort Retrofit at Vice Admiral to have a decent PvP ship?
No. The T4 Defiant has no real special abilities over the higher level ships - only the T5 Retrofit gets the cloak console.
The Fleet Escort is fine for PVP - you just can't cloak and turn a tad slower versus the Def-R. In trade, you have another usable console slot (the Defiant's cloak is a universal console) and you're much more durable, however you go about it.
As far as your build, you mentioned "High Yield Torp, Torp Spread, Attack Patterns Alpha, Beta, Gamma, Tactical Team, Engineering Team, Science Team, Emergency Power to Shields" - you REALLY want to be running 2x Tac Teams (plus having Distribute Shields readily available) so that you have the automatic shield distribution up as long as possible. Engi and Sci teams are of ... limited utility, especially since you have TT up all the time and the 15 second global cooldown on all teams.
I also don't see anything boosting energy weapon DPS - no CRF or CSV. Your torps aren't much good until shields are down, which is one of the reasons why both the STF Escort Build Thread and the Hilbert Guide for New PVP Pilots include powerful cannon boosts. They provide a great starting point for builds, and once you have experience you can modify them as necessary (using a DBB in place of a D(H)C or Torp launcher is a popular idea, for instance).
Pretty much any other advice I could give is covered at some point in the above two guides. Also, for PVP specifically, the folks in OrganizedPVP do like helping newer players in between Star'Dagger's inanity and the usual FOTM rants, so drop by and ask there :P Good luck in game!
Also, you aren't getting any more free ships at this point. There's no advantage to going back to the Tactical Escort, as you are essentially handicapping yourself in PvP and PvE by giving your self less weapons and lower overall boff skills.
The only advantage you're getting with the Tactical Escort Retrofit is a slightly better turn rate, slightly faster impulse speed, and a cloaking device (which gives you a +15% damage increase for 5 seconds when you de-cloak). What you lose, is an Ensign Engineering station, which could give you an extra shield heal. Depending on your build, you get an Ensign Tactical station with the TER, which could be useful (but probably won't be).
The problem that you had, is three-fold:
1) You fought a Klingon player who knew how to use their ships capabilities and had an optimized boff skill layout
2) As a Rear Admiral, Lower Half, your equipment is going to be optimized until you reach Rear Admiral, Upper Half and Vice Admiral (though, the increase could be nominal, depending on what your current gear is)
3) This was your first PvP experience, and what you thought was a good weapon, console, and boff load-out may not be the case. Since you didn't post any of that info, we can only assume that it probably wasn't optimal for a PvP encounter.
My suggestion, is take a look at the numerous escort builds that were posted and compare it to what you have. Join a Fleet and practice some PvP with them, as they could give you some constructive criticism on what you need improvement on.
More durable because of an extra console slot that wouldn't be used by the Cloaking device?
If you take out the cloaking device, you can put any console you want to replace it. But, then it would just be a faster, better turning Fleet Escort (with a useless ensign Tactical officer slot).
I would assume you would want to put the cloaking device in a science slot, since there really aren't any good science consoles that you could use to improve durability (unless you want to add another Field Generator...which will probably get fixed anyways). Otherwise, anything else that would improve durability would be an Engineering console, which probably won't have the cloaking device there anyways.
I appreciate the advice...
As for my Cannons, I should mention that I .. DO, have Cannon: Rapid Fire II on one of my Tact BoFF's; which I have found dramatically boosts my cannon fire, coupled that with Attack Pattern Alpha III; and I'm suddenly doing massive damage with my Cannons.
When lining up for an attack, I usually hit the following...
Attack Alpha III
Cannon: Rapid Fire II
Torpedo: High Yield II
Tactical Team II
Each of these 4 active together, and I'm blasting D'derix' and other heavy Battleships, clear out of the sky within a matter of seconds.
Even though Cannon: Rapid Fire does less damage then when firing cannons normal; I've found that when used with Alpha III and Tact Team II, it dramatically increases the DPS done to the target; and thus I am usually ripping through the PvE targets shields even before the first "High Yield" volley of Quantum Torpedo's hit their mark... at that point, the fights over...
But thats in PvE...
Obviously PvP is much different...
Also, you're suggesting x2 Tact Teams...
Considering I already have two Tact BoFF's; I should have one with Tact Team II (which I already have) and then put Tact Team 1 on the other BoFF? I could definitely do this as my other BoFF has an ensign skill that I don't use; so theoretically I could replace that skill with Tact Team 1.
Appreciate some of your advice as well...
To answer some of your questions...
1. I am not entirely sure of my current BoFF load-out off the top of my head; I know.. I should. However at the moment, I am at work (its a 'lazy day' today) so I can;t login to the game to see for sure what it all is...
My weapons are all Blue or Purple Mark X; Dual Quad Heavy Phaser Cannons.. two on the bow, along with two Quantum Torp Launchers on the Bow.
On the Aft I have a pair of Heavy Phaser Turrets, and 1 Quantum Torp Launcher.
For the Tact Consoles, that I can answer...
x1 Phaser Relay
x1 Prefire Chamber
x2 Warhead Yield Chamber
Engineering Consoles
x2 RARE RCS MK X +32% Turn Rate
x1 Field Emitter
I can say, with those two RCS consoles loaded.. things are really quite intersting. Come in with High Yield II on my Torps, unleashing a heavy volley and then pull a fast 180, putting my aft Torp launcher on them with Torpedo Spread; which on a single target... ouch! I'm fitring anywhere from a dozen or more torpedos within a matter of seconds!
I am, not entirely sure of my Science Consoles; I never figured out the science side of the game much and usually always saw these as things boosting my deflector when... never did me much good in PvE...
I think I have x1 MK X Emitter Array loaded; which supposedly improves Shield repair ...
I also have a 5th BoFF... but I've been working all this time with just the 4 in PvE that the 5th was never much useful. I can see now that in PvP, throwing in the 5th BoFF with additional ensign level shield skills can make a huge difference!
I may try experimenting with that later tonight!
Regarding your weapon loadout...do you mean you have the Phaser Quad Cannons, Phaser Dual Cannons or the Phaser Dual Heavy Cannons? Since you can only have one Quad Cannon on your ship, I'll guess you mean Dual Heavy Cannons on the fore.
Here's my opinions:
1) Having more than one torpedo on the fore is seriously hurting your DPS. You should be using another DHC or a Dual Beam Bank (as some have suggested). Torpedoes do very little damage against shields, and are meant to hit the hull. Your build may be able to hit the hull of NPCs, but against someone who can keep their shields up, your torpedoes are never going to come close to it. With only 2 cannons on the fore, you probably aren't going to do enough damage to penetrate the shields with their shield buffs up.
2) The phaser turrets on the back aren't bad. But, you may want to consider putting a 3rd turret on there, as it will help maintain your DPS. Up to you, however.
3) I used to use 2x RCS consoles as well. Eventually, I dropped one and just use one RCS console on my Tactical Escort Retrofit. But, I definitely noticed an improvement with two. I would, however, recommend you drop the Field Emitter and put in an EPS Flow Regulator. This doesn't help replenish your subsystem power (or if it did, it's not a significant amount), but it does help transfer power between systems quickly (especially if you're dropping out of full impulse).
4) One must have Science console is the Field Generator. It adds +35% to your Shield capacity. Before, you could not stack these. However, you can now (probably a bug, which may get patched).
5) Yes, your Ensign Engineer should have another shield heal. It's not just useful in PvP. In end game STF missions, particularly on Elite, getting killed adds damages to your ship. Damages slightly lowers some of your ship stats, and the damages stack. You can always repair them with components though. But, ideally, you want to stay in the action for as long as possible and do your part to get the optional objective completed for nice prizes.
Here are some other console suggestions:
1) Get an Assimilated Console from the Assimilation mission (I believe it's the first Undine story mission). You can use this in place of your extra science slot, or replace one of the RCS consoles with the Assimilated Console.
2) Replace the torpedo damage boosters with more Phaser relays. Yes, the boost to torpedoes is nice, but you need to be able to take down those shields as quickly as possible to maximize your torpedo damage. Since you will be primarily firing energy weapons, I recommend going all Phaser relays.
This is one thing I have never understood...
Power systems?
I've never seen problems with these, heck I don't even know what they are... I just fly my ship around and shoot at anything thats hostile to me, and usually... 9 times out of 10, I end up destroying whatever it is...
I've read about these, but I've not yet been able to actually find any. STOWiki says that they're only craftable and not tradable on the Exchange... if thats the case, then I'll probably not get one for a long while...
Not quite sure what you mean by .. "getting killed adds damages to your ship.. .damage lowers some of your ship stats... etc" ...
I have never seen this.
I've never seen my ship stats change...
I know there is a "ship heal" NPC guy at ESD but every time I talk to him, he tells me that my ship has no damages to be healed.
I have "components" piling in my inventory cause.. they, seem, to be important...
But I've never had any use for them and they've thus far been rather useless inventory fillers...
Is this something that is maybe bugged?
I've read about these too. Unfortunately, I'm only partway through the Romulan Story line and do not have any of the others available to me, except the Klingon one that I recently finished.
I found that STO was incredibly way too easy to level up; flew around doing System Patrols for 2500+ Exp each, doing 3 - 4 of them in an hour and BAM, I've gone up 2 levels! Another couple hours, and I'm suddenly promoted to Lt. Commander... then play the game for a few hours the next night and suddenly I'm promoted to Commander already... then Captain... and now RA-LH!
I've done the 2800 episodes while I was Captain in a Tactical Defiant, they were kinda fun... but I've found that I can already get much better equipment on my ship from the Exchange as opposed to the Jem'Hader equipment rewards; and flying around in a ship with PURPLE engine streaks and purple windows, and purple deflector, and purple cannon bolts, and ... and.. and purple tribbles with green poka dots, and purple clowns.. and and and ... yea, it was getting kinda dumb...
Went back to using gear from the Exchange and saw a huge improvement in my ships performance.
I actually considered replacing my Aft Torp with a Phaser Relay but kept thinking.. "Why the hell would someone do that on an ESCORT!? .. aren't phasers for Cruisers?!"
But after my PvP experiences last night, and seeing you mention it here, I definitely see the logic in it!
Sure, having all those Torps is awesome in PvE...
I think I'll grab a decent Pahser Relay, or two... keep them in my inventory along with the proper Consoles; and try them out next time I get into a PvP!
Then probably grab a third Tactical BoFF if I can with some Phaser skills; as opposed to the two Boff's I already have that share Torp and Cannon skills...
That's what I meant, my wording was bad. Either way, you're losing a slot - guess you could just lose the 4th tact console
Wrong, they're available for about 12k dilithium from the D-store or about 1.4m from the exchange as of this post (search for Field Generator Mk XI). It's worth the dilithium, tbh :P
Read the threads I linked, pretty much all of your questions are answered there. Shook's advice is good too - I'd be more talky and less "read this"y but the oven just beeped ;-;
Also you can skip any mission to move to the next, to get to the Undine Front quickly.
It should look like this:
Weapon 50/50
Shield 50/50
Engine 50/50
Auxiliary 50/50
Left value is actual, right value is the regular level. The numbers will change on the left, depending on what you have skill points into and what consoles you have. If you are flying an escort, you automatically get +15 to weapons. So, you weapon subsystem power would be 65/50.
In the case of weapons, 50 does 100% of the listed damage. At 100, you are doing 200% your listed damage (some think it's 300%). At 125 (hard cap on subsystem power), you are doing 250% (some thing it's 400%). For instance, I have my subsystem at 125/90 as an escort, and my mk XII dual heavy cannon lists the damage at 1,200+ DPS (you can see this in combat space or orbiting space....just hover the mouse over the weapon attack icon). Normally, it's 261 DPS. The 1200+ DPS is determined after skills, passives, and subsystem power.
For more information, go here: http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=157386
As Zeke has stated, you can buy them from the Exchange or you can buy them with dilithium.
No, it's not bugged. STO is forgiving to those players that choose to play normal. However, the rewards are greater when you play Elite. It's also harder. Not to mention, that when you die, you get damages to your ship. That is what the components are, and that is what that one officer is for on stations.
By default, your game is set to Normal. You can change this. However, you are given the option to stay on Normal mode, and only play the end-game STF missions on Elite.
Again, as Zeke said, you can skip any mission (except for the first mission of each chapter). That's what I did to quickly get the Assimilated Console.
As for the rewards for the 2800, a lot of the rewards for the story missions scale to your level, or they scale as you level up.
Here are the examples of those two types:
1) Let's say you got a mk VII shield from the 2800 story line after you beat it the first time. Then you replay the mission after you get to VA. The same shield will now be a mk XI. So, it's in your interest to replay the stories that had unique items (like the 2800 missions).
2) Let's say you get a weapon that has no mk. In that case, what typically happens, is that as you go up in rank, your weapon becomes more powerful without you having to do anything.
Just so there's no misunderstanding, beam weapons are classified as Beam Array (single beam) or Dual Beam Bank (dual beams).
Phaser Relays are the damage boosting console for phasers.
I wouldn't recommend putting a phaser ARRAY on your aft. Turrets consume less subsystem power and are considered cannons. So, your cannon abilities (like Cannon: Rapid Fire 2) would get boosted. Also, turrets have a 360 degree firing arc, so they can fire on whatever is directly in front of you along with your fore weapons.
The standard build that a lot of people use are:
Fore Weapons: 3x Dual Heavy Cannons + 1x Torpedo (usually quantum)
Aft Weapons: 3x Turrets
Tactical Consoles: 4x specific energy weapon boosting consoles
Just, two more questions though for now...
How in the world do you skip missions and jump ahead to other campaigns??
They're all greyed out for me and I can not hail them... and they all state they have a required minimum level at which they can be played...
So how do I skip the ones I am on, and jump straight to the Undine for example; if it is greyed out?
Lastly... how do I change from "normal mode" to "elite mode" ... this is the first time I've ever heard reference to that one.
Oh... and on the Field Generator suggestion for a Sci Console...
It could be a rather, long while.. before I'm able to acquire one of those...
So any other suggestions on that area until I am, able to afford such?
There's a skip button for each mission in the Episodes tab of Hail Starfleet. You must skip them in sequential order starting from your current mission. Also note that the first missions in some series are unskippable, but these tend to be quick "go here and talk to this guy" missions.
At the bottom of the Current Missions tab of the Hail Starfleet dialog, there should be a drop-down menu.
As for switching to Elite, you can do this in the Options menu, I believe. However, if you're concerned about doing STF Elites, don't be. They give you the option of queuing for Normal and Elite, without you having to change anything.
I don't really have an opinion on other science consoles. On my Tactical Escort Retrofit, I use the cloaking device and field generator in those slots. I'd suggest just keeping what you already have and just save for what you need.
Go and read through my Escort 101 thread.
Sounds like have have a good start... polishing the edges is a big part of the fun. I'm sure something in that thread will help you out.
Welcome to STO pvp. Join OrganizedPvP chat channel as well... there are some good pvp chats going on there almost all the time. Feel free to ask questions there as well, you may get the odd smart a** answer don't let that scare ya off if it happens.
For some reason I'm unable to equip quad or even heavy cannons on the retrofit.
Anyone else have this problem?
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