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How about some new Hangar pets?
suaveks
Member Posts: 1,736 Arc User
Some time ago I posted a thread with a suggestion of introducing a new federation hangar pet that would be able to deploy mines as a primary feature. Now, after flying Vesta a little bit, comparing it to Kar'Fi where possible, I honestly think Federation fighters are kind of lacking.
I mean, even though they do seem to serve specific roles, in the end they all seem almost the same. My biggest issue with Vesta (with bugged/nerfed hangar cooldown) is that its fighters seem to die from enemy explosions exteremely quickly and there's no good way to stop them or make them run away fast enough - especially Peregrines, which need to fly straight at the enemy to fire their cannons. But it's not much better for runabouts - which should have more HP - nor for Type 10 shuttles - which die instantly even with polarize hull active. With 40 sec - 1min non-reduceable cooldown (even at max aux) it's honestly annoying.
In addition, there's no proper frigate/raider type hangar, no fast moving craft like Slavers or Interceptors, and no support crafts or drones aside from shield repair units. And with Stalkers being usable only on Atrox, there doesn't seem to be much to choose from in the end.
inb4 carriers should be KDF only and FEDs shouldn't have them at all rawrharwhwarh!!111onemeh - I'm not asking for much. Just some more variety for different strategies. I would love to see Type 10 shuttles fly a little bit faster, so they'd be more focused on outmaneuvering enemy ships and draining shields with their beams. I'd like to see some craft which is able to lay mines. Or perhaps some other type of non-combat drone, similar to KDFs Tachyon or Power Siphon drones? Anything. Right now it's either "dps" peregrines, shield repair units or one of three beam-oriented slow moving shuttles.
So, Cryptic, any chance for an update anytime soon(tm)? Perhaps players have other suggestions for hangars that wouldn't really diminish KDFs carrier superiority, yet would introduce some variety for FEDs?
I mean, even though they do seem to serve specific roles, in the end they all seem almost the same. My biggest issue with Vesta (with bugged/nerfed hangar cooldown) is that its fighters seem to die from enemy explosions exteremely quickly and there's no good way to stop them or make them run away fast enough - especially Peregrines, which need to fly straight at the enemy to fire their cannons. But it's not much better for runabouts - which should have more HP - nor for Type 10 shuttles - which die instantly even with polarize hull active. With 40 sec - 1min non-reduceable cooldown (even at max aux) it's honestly annoying.
In addition, there's no proper frigate/raider type hangar, no fast moving craft like Slavers or Interceptors, and no support crafts or drones aside from shield repair units. And with Stalkers being usable only on Atrox, there doesn't seem to be much to choose from in the end.
inb4 carriers should be KDF only and FEDs shouldn't have them at all rawrharwhwarh!!111onemeh - I'm not asking for much. Just some more variety for different strategies. I would love to see Type 10 shuttles fly a little bit faster, so they'd be more focused on outmaneuvering enemy ships and draining shields with their beams. I'd like to see some craft which is able to lay mines. Or perhaps some other type of non-combat drone, similar to KDFs Tachyon or Power Siphon drones? Anything. Right now it's either "dps" peregrines, shield repair units or one of three beam-oriented slow moving shuttles.
So, Cryptic, any chance for an update anytime soon(tm)? Perhaps players have other suggestions for hangars that wouldn't really diminish KDFs carrier superiority, yet would introduce some variety for FEDs?
Post edited by suaveks on
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I personally believe that there should be another full-size Fed Carrier, of Fed design, with the Aquarius as hangar pets, similar to BoPs. Of course I don't think the USS Mary Sue should have had a working fighter hangar anyway.
As far as pets go, why not just make the Peregrines with BoP AI, so they perform attack runs rather then attempting to swarm the target like a beam pet would.
A new pet could be a Heavy Bomber type. More sturdy and slower then Peregrines but with 2x DHCs and 1 Trico with EPtS1, CRF1 and HY1. The Advanced type could pack 2x DHC, 1 Turret, 1 Trico, and a Full-size Quantum Mine Layer, X2SIF1, EPtS2, CRF1, HY2. Restrict them to 2 per Hangar.
Feds do need some kind of heavy hanger pet but only ships with two hangers should be able to launch them, or a dedicated single hanger pet ship(flight deck stlye ect).
Vesta's "nurfed" hanger makes sense its basically just a slightly beefed up shuttlebay of course its going to be the worst of the hangers in the game. Really the Galaxy class ships should get a hanger bay they are larger and have more hanger space than the vesta does. So devs go put the dreadnaught in a fleet suite and add a hanger to it and the current fleet galaxy.
Then you'd have to put hangars on other ships, like the Intrepid-class. Afterall, Voyager did give us the Delta Flyer.
Well any ship in the game can use boarding part since its a lt skill, voyager only had one delta flyer (I don't remember other shuttles since well I haven't seen voyager since the finale), and I think the exploration cruiser could use a hanger...would help make up a bit for such a horrible boff layout.
As for the other concerns. . .you feddies stole the carriers, which used to be a KDF exclusive and one of the reasons to play the faction. You then got the danubes, which for a long time were a serious cheese move (thankfully they've been nerfed). You also have the escort-carrier, which beats the hell out of the KDF one-hangar ships in terms of mobility and usefulness.
Make do with what you've got. It's what the KDF does, so I suggest you Kirks do the same.
I won't deny that the KDf was never shown with a carrier, but if you wanna play the 'canon and non-canon' card, ok then...
Vesta is technically non-canon, it only ever came from a book, so then why should it be in this game?
And nobody was ever shown, Fed, KDF, or Romulan, having a full-on carrier, ever, in a canon situation. The Scimitar held wings of Scorpion fighters, true, but we don't know how much of a 'carrier' it truly was then since it never used them in the movie.
A new support ship class is not at all required to explain the presence of fighters, though. Any ship with a reasonably sized shuttlebay could hold a few, and the Galaxy-class' main shuttlebay was so big that it could easily hold several. All this assuming you remove the shuttles first, which could be done at a starbase.
Of course by that logic every large ship should have a single hangar. But this is a situation where gameplay takes precedence over Trek accuracy. Dedicated ships makes more sense from a gameplay standpoint.
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STO is not canon. So, it doesn't matter whether the KDF 'should have had it at all'.All I know is that, since the beginning of the game, the KDF had carriers. The Federation found ways around it, and had their own strengths they could rely on. Now that you Feddies have stolen the carrier class, we get pet spam out the wazoo. You've stolen the carrier, but not once have you Kirks demanded that the KDF get a proper science vessel class, or anything else that the KDF is deficient in. On top of that, you lot keep 'suggesting' that you be given battlecloaks, cannons on cruisers, and everything else that makes playing KDF worth the effort.
It's always far too much to ask that Federation players just play a KDF toon if they want KDF exclusives. No, they've gotta steal it from the dirty, smelly 'Klinks' and have it all on Fed, instead, and they wave their wallets around to bribe Cryptic into doing it. Damn the game balance, full speed ahead!
Canon, non-canon, fine, whatever, you win that.
I can understand however that not having some things be KDF exclusive. BUT that point still can be used about so many Fed items as well. Would you be willing to let the KDF have an escort/raptor have 5 tactical consoles, for example, something they don't have? Or heck, just a fleet-level ship they can either buy from the C-store, or a Fleet ship that applies for the module discount in the first place.
You ask if I am fine to deal with BoPs being our only sci ships without carriers? Well, they nearly ARE that already. Taking away the Vo'quv and Kar'fi, we're left with the Hegh'ta and B'rel as pseudo-sci ships (at end-game), and the Varanus as the only true and complete sci ship on the KDF side. So that is a bit moot, because it doesn't really matter, the KDF is already at that point anyways.
So, 'bankrupt arguments'? Interesting choice of words, you could say the same thing about a lot of the topics in this forum, PvP area, Fed vs. KDF in general, and so on. There are plenty of those around here, not just a mere single topic about Fed carriers, that at least is something not exclusive to any side.
Besides, none of my post means spit in this thread, since we're all getting very quickly off topic into little more than a 'fed v kdf' battle. So feel free to reply to me again, not that I will be changing your mind anytime soon I bet.
SO...new hangar pets? I don't mind seeing more variety, but we just haven't seen many ideas on what to add.
I would like to add something of importance that everyone seems to have forgotten about:
New romulan rep has new hangar pets of course, but...
Tier 5 science on SBs has very rare hangar pets as well. So far as I know, nobody on either side has reached that, so if they are the same pets, or new 'Elite Fleet' level pets, I do not know, but it's something to keep in mind for the future, everyone.
2 for klingons fase fighters fighters the fade in and out of cloak weapons one dc and one harpeng torp 3 launched at a time
Fyi, there are pets w/AoE decloaking capabilities. They've been around for awhile, people prefer to spam TBs/phasers though.
I don't like pet spam in general and in this game they're poorly balanced (siphon, ad frigs for kdf, TB/phaser spam Feds). The way the resists work, people's skills do a better job resisting Boff abilities than pets and consoles which is upside down imo.
Really what they need to do is treat pets like Boarding party and make people lose crew in a fight when their pets die and not regen the crew until the ship launching the carrier respawns.
In reality Cryptic can make $ off of pets so you'll see more of them and they won't be balanced so you can count on power creeping abilities.
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Fed, I could see some NON cloaking pet along the same lines as the KDF Birds of Prey... again remember NON cloaking....
and the KDF could do with something that worked in a similar manner as the Danube Runabout...
as for the argument of the Feds should not have carriers I can see where the argument can be made for the feds to not have the carrier or carrier like ships in STO... but the Box has been opened and you cant exactly go back now... so we might as well get used to the pet spam and accept the fact that both sides have carriers... sure the KDF has 2 dedicated carrier while the feds have the 1 but really its not like the kdf has anything like the armatage or vesta.....
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Yep nothing like those.. but... to some degree..
Vesta + Armitage = Kar'fi :eek:
Also, you seem to forget about the Marauder and Fleet Corsair Flight Deck Cruiser - with the latter being sci-focused and able to mount dual cannons.
I do think an Omega Rep 'attack drone' style hangar pet would be awesome, fighter-sized Exocomp attack units with anti-hacking stuff to keep borg from hacking them... Let's see the Borg Assimilate those. They sort of already exist in a fashion, the Bio-neural Warheads, just turn them into fighters that probably only pull a suicide run at low health instead of as primary attack, and probably not as powerful a boom either.
Heck I wouldn't be against some way of allowing a form of the Tholian Widow Fighter on Non-Recluse ships while also allowing the Stalker fighters on ships other than the Atrox... Maybe T5 Starbases will allow for new hangar pets.
On a less than serious side-note, can we launch Tacos and cereal boxes out of our hangers? Or maybe have them as non-combat pets in space, holographic disguises anyone? Why look like an Adult Gekli when we could look like a Giant Taco or Cereal box, or a starship sized Spoon (I'm sure Q would find it all rather amusing), we can have epic food fights in Space... maybe reenact the food fight from Animal House.
I've been testing Type 10 shuttles. These things' performance is laughable. It's basically a fighter with a phaser array instead of peregrine's dual cannons and torpedos. Polarize Hull feature, which was supposed to make the shuttles a bit more sturdy, is completely poinless, as the pets have about 2500 HP total, so they'll blow up fast due to a sneeze regardless if PH is used or not.
Then I've checked my Kar'Fi using Advanced Slavers. In comparason with Type-10 shuttles they've got twice as much base HP, fly twice as fast, and in addition of their disruptor beam they also drop quantum mines, steal crew and may steal you some commodities or EC. And slavers aren't the best thing out there to begin with...
Come on Cryptic, with the increasing focus on Federation carrier-type ships you should really look into both the existing pets and their performance, as well as consider introducing something new for bigger variety of choice.
though it would be nice if the pets all fit into the same kind of classification as the ships do.
as is I'm not sure what role a shuttle is supposed to play other than "get rid of annoying crewmen".
Be nice to have fighter/bomber/Gunship sorts of vehicles.
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could be a nice addition to the pets hangar and might make a nice addition to the Federation Carrier its not like we dont already have runabout pets and this would just be a logical choice of using something ALREADY in game for another Federation Carrier type Pet
I.R.W. Raptor's Claw
Storm Eagle Class Warbird Fleet Ha'feh
I have never trusted humans, and I never will
That would be awesome. Apply a yellowstone skin over the default Runabout pet use same base stats but change out the Tractor beam skill for Eject Warp Plasma and you'd be done, might not even need to tweak the AI, although it would be best if you at least updated the AI to handle when to use Eject Warp Plasma instead of using it when it would want to tractor beam...
I really like that idea.
Can we also get the Timeshuttle as hangar pets? And maybe those ferengi shuttles with there 'super shields' (they might actually work like the Type 10 shuttle was meant to).
I.R.W. Raptor's Claw
Storm Eagle Class Warbird Fleet Ha'feh
I have never trusted humans, and I never will
We also have the Danube and Delta covering beam weapon ships.
It would kind of be cool to see the shuttles have one of the roles like main ships, and then have some customization to them. So you can have the three times of hangers, science, tactical and whatever a cruiser equivalent would be.
Each ship gets a couple of options that you can assign to them, so you could equip them kind of like your shuttles. You give them their weapon or two, a skill to use that fits their ship type, and then an ai option for how they should act in combat. (IE hit and run, swarm, debuff/support.)
Perhaps that a bit complicated, but I like variety. Even if I do something horribly, I like the fact that I can choose to do that.