Bortas(qu) vs Vorcha/Ktinga

okkam88 · December 2012

Is there anything a Bortas or Bortasqu can do than a Vorcha or Ktinga can't do better? I'm coming back from a hiatus and I really like the look of the Bortas variants, but I'm just not sure if they really are worth the time/money/etc vs getting one of the Fleet Vorchas or Ktingas. I levelled in battlecruisers but the Bortas seems
more like a fed cruiser than a battlecruiser.

EDIT - My KDF guy is an Engineer.

chalpen · December 2012

the bortasq cannot turn but it is amazingly powerful at forward cannon fire.

So, all any ship has to do is get behind him.

okkam88 · December 2012

I should also clarify that I'm 99% PVE. I only occasionally do PVP when I need dilithium. Is the turning manageable for PVE or is it still super annoying?

xantris · December 2012

okkam88 wrote: »

I should also clarify that I'm 99% PVE. I only occasionally do PVP when I need dilithium. Is the turning manageable for PVE or is it still super annoying?

It's manageable in STFs, where everything is super scripted and slow moving. In anything that involves more of a dogfight, it's pretty annoying.

I personally wouldn't fly one, but I don't like any ships that have less than a 10 in turn rating

marc8219 · December 2012

The Bortasqu can do many things better except turn. The tac Bortasqu with 5 tac consoles has more firepower in pve since you dont need to turn good to hit with DHC, and has the abilty to do a massive decloaking alpha strike using the autocannon, this can result in near instant kills in pvp. Unfortuantley the Bortasqu has to use 180 degree single cannons or beam arrays in pvp due to turn rate but still does a lot of damage dut to the tac consoles.

The command bortasqu has 1 less tac console but gets 1 more sci console then tac bortasqu, and is only KDF cruiser with sensor analysis so its damage can really pile up more then the Torhkat or Ktinga also over time.

I dont care much for the War Bortasqu but I suppose it can be a better hull tank with the 5th eng console and still have lots of firepower to.

I recomend either tac or command bortasqu or the 3 pack if you can handle the turn rate, someplayers hate it. If you have ever piloted a carrier and dont mind its low manuverabilty then Bortasqu is for you as you get a ship with more tankiness and firepower and universal boffs.

roddy229 · December 2012

I have two Vor'chas and a Bortasqu' war cruiser. The war cruiser is pretty mean when built properly, but it's turning radius is bigger then that of a cruise liner! Both of my Vor'chas were pretty mean ships for their size, just leaves me wishing they had better hull strength

benj2293 · January 2013

I personally prefer the Bortasqu' Tactical or Command, they have huge amounts of firepower and good tanking, depending on what heals you put on them, they are excellent at surviving everything the PvE enemies throw at it, except the occasional invisi-torp. The turning is easily manageable, despite other people over-exaggerating how slow it is .
Though you're not planning on doing PvP, a 7 beam, 1 torp, or 8 beam setup on any of the 3 Versions can hurt a lot. Beam Fire at Will and Emergency Power to Weapons along with your nadion inversion should be able to make your beams hit for around 2000 damage per shot.

bitemepwe · January 2013

Kahless knows when I took a BortasQu idea I had into to K yesterday, it died quick. Maybe its out of date already?

thissler · January 2013

patrickngo wrote: »

Log on to Tribble, go to the Qo'Nos shipyard, there's a console there, (or was a while ago) whre your toon on Tribble can 'claim' a Bortasque. Take it, test-drive it.

if the ONLY STF you play is Infected, it's not bad for STFs.

everywhere else, it's basically worse than a Vo'Quv. Yes, it has enormous firepower potential-problem is, actually getting that firepower in a position to take the shot-which is where the design fails utterly. (The Vo'Quv only holds one advantage-but it's a key advantage-the ability to deploy swarms of smallcraft that CAN turn...)

remember: the only time Potential firepower COUNTS is when you can APPLY IT. The shot you couldn't take or the shot that misses, neither one matters, only the shots that HIT can do damage!

In observation: Bortas are easy meat for Feds in Ker'rat, and the few I've seen in the que'd PvP only make a positive difference when the rest of the team is built around keeping the opposition off their flanks while facing five kirking feds in slower fed cruisers.

I will reiterate: POTENTIAL firepower (peak DPS) only matters if you can actually line up the shot. when you can't, it becomes meaningless.

So why didn't you just come on here and say "I don't fly one cause I don't know how to fly one."? I mean that's what your saying right? Don't worry though, we aren't gonna get into this. You just keep on not being able to do stuff and blaming the stuff, the devs, and anyone but yourself. But please, stop telling other people that they can't do it.

And why the heck are you bringing carriers into this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erPP8gt4X7M Budget Bortas in KA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwZwom0_988 Fleet Vor'cha

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mt8-lDmbpeQ Bortas in Cure and Fleet Event

It is a big slow ship. It has some fun consoles. The ubercannon combined with dem doffs is uber silly. If you don't mind driving a ship like it's a huge assualt ship, its great. Think of a WWII style SP Gun. The other ships are just insanely fast. I really like the console and boff layout on the fleet Vor'cha, but hey, they are all capable ships. The only obvious bonus of the Bortas set is that you do gain 3 ships that you could set up for different missions. I admit I didn't. I simply kept the command version.

Cheers happy flying, and this ship is fun for any borg stf. Except maybe the ground missions. And don't let anyone tell you different.

PS: Romulan or the Transport Escort events all my toons use escorts. Just the way it is those are speedy turny missions. The right tool for the job and all that.

zahinder · January 2013

I drifted over to playing a Guramba, but when I used the bortasqu' command ship I basically had a STF weapon set (cannons, autocannon) and a PvP set (beam arrays).

In STF, it's not that hard to have one or two mobility abilities (evasive maneuvers + APO + the emergency power to ... SIF? I forget) for the occasional need to get on point. Otherwise you just park the thing near the cubes and have at it.

In PvP, I'd really treat it like a Federation cruiser... except one with actual teeth. 4 tac consoles + sensor analysis + 2 sci slots for shield boost (or other stuff, if you prefer to rely on hulls more) is potent. Put a tac officer in the universal slot, and you have a lot of really good tactical abilities.

However, what really makes me wonder is the Breen ship -- it's a battlecruiser with 4 tac slots, an even better tac seat, and HUGELY more mobile. Yeah, the bortasqu' has 20% more hull and sensor analysis, but... I really don't think it's worth it anymore.

So, to recap, I think the Bortasqu' compares favorably with vor'cha and k'tinga, if you can tolerate cruiser style maneuvering, but Cryptic came by and capped Bortasqu' in the skull with the Breen free ship.

cliftona91 · January 2013

thissler wrote: »

So why didn't you just come on here and say "I don't fly one cause I don't know how to fly one."? I mean that's what your saying right? Don't worry though, we aren't gonna get into this. You just keep on not being able to do stuff and blaming the stuff, the devs, and anyone but yourself. But please, stop telling other people that they can't do it.

And why the heck are you bringing carriers into this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erPP8gt4X7M Budget Bortas in KA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwZwom0_988 Fleet Vor'cha

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mt8-lDmbpeQ Bortas in Cure and Fleet Event

It is a big slow ship. It has some fun consoles. The ubercannon combined with dem doffs is uber silly. If you don't mind driving a ship like it's a huge assualt ship, its great. Think of a WWII style SP Gun. The other ships are just insanely fast. I really like the console and boff layout on the fleet Vor'cha, but hey, they are all capable ships. The only obvious bonus of the Bortas set is that you do gain 3 ships that you could set up for different missions. I admit I didn't. I simply kept the command version.

Cheers happy flying, and this ship is fun for any borg stf. Except maybe the ground missions. And don't let anyone tell you different.

PS: Romulan or the Transport Escort events all my toons use escorts. Just the way it is those are speedy turny missions. The right tool for the job and all that.

Thissler is not making this up, for I did the same thing. My build was slightly different than Thissler's, but I used uncommon and common gear (only had one or two rare items), Cannons and Turrets, and even a Quantum Torpedo for Torpedo Spread 2. I went through both Khitomer Accord Elite and Infected Elite with this setup and did incredibly well.

In STF's you can line up the shots well enough as the Borg move slowly and give you that time. I would be daft to take the Bortasqu into a PVP match though, but that's just me. Some people are crazy enough to take a cannon equipped Bortas'qu into a PVP match and make it work

cliftona91 · January 2013

patrickngo wrote: »

for a fifty-dollar ship, it better be able to handle every possible content at least competently, from PvP, to Path of the Warrior(all six Pi Canis sorties, with optionals), to ALL FOUR space STF's AND Azure Nebula rescue.

see, I've SEEN Vor'chas, Negh'vars and Tor'Kahts that have done this, so the challenge to Bortasque fans is, prove you can make the lumbering space whale cover the big set-C&H, Arena, Pi Canis (A and B with optionals), CSE, KSE, ISE, Hive Onslaught Elite.

Thissler, show me that, and I'll say it's a matter of skill...but then again, skill can make ANYTHING work, even one of those 'starter ships' at Tier 1...

I'll admit it to be a matter of skill, if you can do all of those with a Bort.

Thissler made a Vo'quv work in PVP: A Vo'quv with cannons to be exact. Have you seen that video yet?

Besides, if he can make that fat whale work in a Capture and Hold, I am sure he can do the same with the Bortasqu. Why? Because manuverability wise, they are roughly the same:

Bortasqu:

Inertia: 18
Turn: 5.5

Vo'quv:

Interia: 20
Turn: 5

Voquv has less tac consoles and a less flexible boff layout, less weapons. But it has hanger bays, subsytem targeting and sensor analysis, and more Sci consoles.

Bortasqu has more tac consoles, a far more flexible boff layou, more weapons. But it has no hanger bays, no subsystem targeting, no sensor analysis (save for the command version), and few Sci consoles.

I am confident he can make a Bortasqu work in PVP

cliftona91 · January 2013

patrickngo wrote: »

hmm...but my way, we get another cool Thissler video...

Lol, that is true

okkam88 · January 2013

Thanks for all the info folks. I haven't dropped $50 yet. I have the 2 year freebie version that I really like the look of, but since I'm coming from a Vorcha Retrofit, it has been a bit of an adjustment. I'll check around for that console to claim one on tribble. I had looked at the normal ship vendor who has it listed for - zen, but it won't let you buy it. I'll see if I can find the other avenue.

zahinder · January 2013

Yeah, while I think the bortasqu compares reasonably as a ship, I don't think it's at all worth $25 (or $50), and I seriously regret my purchase.

Particularly now with the fleet module thing, you'd be MUCH better off saving the cash for fleet modules. Assuming you can find a KDF fleet that isn't on life support.

crusty8mac · January 2013

There are several Bortasqu captains that I am happy to see when I hit the Cap and Splode. They are awesome dealers of damage.

stulpnagel · January 2013

hi, im quite dissapointed with the boertasqu. Maybe im a noob driver of carriers couse the biggest thing i had was a negh var, but the command bortasqu its really giving me headaches. I'm not dealing any damage against spheres and obviously against cubes...am i using in the wrong way my disruptors? why is it better 8 beams??? 8 beams aft and fore seems crazy and nonsense. i got AFT: 2 beams and 2 torpedos FORE: 2 beams and 2 torpedos---i use the borg set (4 pieces)---and almost all mk11 consoles, includiing 2 mk12 on science---
WTH am i doing wrong???

zahinder · January 2013

Against borg? Use DHC + turrets.

Borg don't generally move that much.

(Though I advise APO)

reginamala78 · January 2013

stulpnagel wrote: »

hi, im quite dissapointed with the boertasqu. Maybe im a noob driver of carriers couse the biggest thing i had was a negh var, but the command bortasqu its really giving me headaches. I'm not dealing any damage against spheres and obviously against cubes...am i using in the wrong way my disruptors? why is it better 8 beams??? 8 beams aft and fore seems crazy and nonsense. i got AFT: 2 beams and 2 torpedos FORE: 2 beams and 2 torpedos---i use the borg set (4 pieces)---and almost all mk11 consoles, includiing 2 mk12 on science---
WTH am i doing wrong???

6 beams and either 2 torps, 2 DBBs, or the omega torp and cutting beam. Chained EPTW1 also helps with all that drain. Or maybe 4 single cannons and 4 turrets. Yes you can mount DHCs, but it'll be a pain to stay on target against anything faster than a Borg Cube.

stulpnagel · January 2013

Thank you both. Yeah now im trying with 3 beams and a spread torp III fore and aft, seems quite good but maybe im not getting right with the consoles couse my damage against spheres isnt quite much enough yet. I use 2 disruptor ind coils, a photon deton. assembly and the supspace snare....what u think?

On the other hand, my skill-based stats of my ships maybe are not quite well distributed: all my stats are in 99 or +, but the rest..... core potential is in (54), engine performance (36), shield perf. (18), weapon perf (36) and aux perf (18) :mad:, think i should buy a token? :eek:

thanks in advantage

tom61sto · January 2013

stulpnagel wrote: »

Thank you both. Yeah now im trying with 3 beams and a spread torp III fore and aft, seems quite good but maybe im not getting right with the consoles couse my damage against spheres isnt quite much enough yet. I use 2 disruptor ind coils, a photon deton. assembly and the supspace snare....what u think?

Going 4x Disruptor Coils instead would greatly help your DPS. Two Piece KHG space set gives +25% Torp damage, if you have that kicking around or are T5 in Omega Rep (not much sense in getting less than MK XII, unless you can't run Elites at all), so you can use that to buff your torps.

You'll likely need to post your full setup and skills to be able to see if a respec is in order.

stulpnagel · January 2013

FORE: X3 disruptor beam array MKXII [Borg] / Photon Torpedo Launcher MKXII [Borg]
AFT: X1 Polarized Disruptor MKXII[CrtH] / X2 Polarized disr.MKXII [Acc][Dmg] / Tricobalt Torp. MKXII [Borg]

DEVICES: Shield/ Auxiliary/Weapon/Subspace Fielf Modulator

ENGINEERING: Plasma distribution manifold MkXI / SIF Generator MKXI / Tetraburnium Hull Armor MKXI / Universal Assimilator Module

SCIENCE: Flow Capacitor MKXII / Power Insulator MKXII

TACTICAL: Disruptor Induction Coil MKXI / Disruptor Ind.Coil MKX / Photon Deton.Assembly MKXII / Zero-Point Energy Conduit

TACTICAL STATS

Weapon training - 129
Attack pattern - 99
Energy Weap.Dam. - 99
Projectile Weap.Dam. - 99
Maneuvers - 99
Tarj.systems - 99
thread control - 99
stealth - 99
energy weap.speciality - 94
proj.weap.spec. - 94

SC STATS

flow capac. - 129
shield emmiters - 99
power insul. - 74
shield systems - 30
gravitron gener - 39
Inertial Damp - 16

ENG STATS

driver coil - 99
batteries - 99
hull repair - 133
struct.integr - 118
subst.rep. - 89
warp core effic - 84
electro-plasma - 64
thrusters - 64
warp core potential - 54
hull plating - 36
eng.perf - 36
shield perf - 18
armor reinf - 36
weapon perf - 18

STATIONS:

Lt.Comm Universal. ( tac) - fire will 1 / high yield 2 / spread 3
Ensign universal. (sci) - hazard emmiters 1
Lt. (tac) - overload 1 / target shield subs 2
Comm. (eng) - emergenci power to shields 1 / engin team 2 / power to dampers 2 / structural field 3
Lt. (sci) - transfer shield strenght 1 / tractor beam 2

tom61sto · January 2013

Not seeing any glaring issues in the skills. Someone else might be able to point some things out.

The main issue I'm seeing is only two Disruptor coils, that's severely limiting your beams' DPS. I'd drop either the Power Insulator or Plasma distribution manifold and move the Zero-Point Energy Conduit Romulan console to it's spot and plop at least one more Disruptor Coil in. Omega or Hyper-Plasma torps are really handy at taking out Spheres thanks to the Plasma DoTs, so you might consider changing a fore or aft launcher for one of those.

reginamala78 · January 2013

stulpnagel wrote: »

STATIONS:

Lt.Comm Universal. ( tac) - fire will 1 / high yield 2 / spread 3
Ensign universal. (sci) - hazard emmiters 1
Lt. (tac) - overload 1 / target shield subs 2
Comm. (eng) - emergenci power to shields 1 / engin team 2 / power to dampers 2 / structural field 3
Lt. (sci) - transfer shield strenght 1 / tractor beam 2

Lets try this. Almost the same setup but will likely work better while keeping a similar feel.

Cmdr Engineer: Emergency To Weapons 1, Engineering Team 2, Emergency To Shields 3, Structural Field 3
LtCmdr Universal (tac): Tactical Team 1, Spread 2, Attack Pattern Omega 1
Lt Tactical: Fire At Will 1, High Yield 2
Lt Sci: Tractor Beam 1, Transfer Shield Strength 2
Ens Universal (sci): Hazard 1

Active Space Doffs
Tractor Beam Officer (Free from Arucanis Arm colonization)
2-3 Damage Control Officers (proc reduces cooldown on your Emergency powers, replicatable Emergency Engineering Hologram counts)
1-2 Conn officer (reduce the cooldown on Tactical Team, be sure to get the right one)

The changes
Attack Pattern Omega: It gets you out of tractor beams and helps with turning when you need to, plus it boosts your offense and defense besides.
Tactical Team: Don't leave home without it, especially when running STFs. The shield balancing is a lifesaver, and getting those boarding parties off your ship is important
Emergency To Weapons: Controlling all the beam drain is a pain, and trading an ensign eng slot for +20ish power is well worth it.
Emergency To Shields 3: You're big and slow and tanky, and the more punishment you can soak the better. FIND an engineer to teach you; its well worth it.
Swapping Tractor Beam and Transfer Shields: TB1 is 85% as good as TB2, and most targets shouldn't last long enough to matter anyways. Extra shield healing and tanking is always good however.

stulpnagel · January 2013

sweet. im gonna check some variants on what both of you told me, maybe tom you're right on putting another D ind coil, but im concern bout my torpedo damage may reduce, and you said 2 honor guard parts ( i have the full set mk12) increase torp damage, but i really cant get rid of the borg set couse i love it, it has a great structural healing and i just get so used to it, and i guess a full set runs better allways.

Maybe im taking off one sci console (power insulators) and put there the zero point and put another D ind coil on the tac.

Thanks for the advises, i'll keep reading more options, dont be shy post your ship stuff

Bortas(qu) vs Vorcha/Ktinga

Comments