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First 50ish pvp games - 1 really good match
ovinspace
Member Posts: 310
Just started doing some pvp, in part due to dilithium drought but also for a bit challenge after getting lots of mk 12 Borg gear it was getting stale. Using sci boat for Fed and carrier for Klingon, both standard versions with no pay for stuff, but with mk 12 weapons, borg plus maco/HG shields and decent consoles.
Most games have been fairly one sided but conducted in civilised way. A handful were wrecked by a large numbers imbalance sometimes with guys literally doing nothing, I realize that this is a known issue. A few games wrecked with pay to win guys, in paricular leach and accumulator things just rendering the whole thing a non event, a couple of those were pretty ugly with spawn sitting added to the mix. More than a few games where one side was just better at the game and won with ease, fair enough I don't expect to compete with the pros.
With both ships I can trade shots with cruisers, sci and carriers and sometimes do well and sometimes not, the best I can do with escorts is mildly inconvenience them with next to no chance of a single handed kill. Worse than that I can barely slow them down with tractor beam, target engines and gravity well, my sci recon tractor has so little effect on a Jemmy fighter that I barely hit the damn thing with weapons that will take forever to get through the shields anyway. Its like Muhammed Ali fighting a fat 60 year old. They come at me from all direction, I can't keep track, can't get the target I want and even when those two things come together I might as well not bother unless a teamate also gets a tractor lock going.
Is 1 game from 50ish a sensible return? - no
Do I have to run power drain specialists and become a game wrecker or just join the escorts?
Simply putting in hours and hours to become better in the hope that there might be a fun game in there somewhere just doesn't seem worth the effort.
Most games have been fairly one sided but conducted in civilised way. A handful were wrecked by a large numbers imbalance sometimes with guys literally doing nothing, I realize that this is a known issue. A few games wrecked with pay to win guys, in paricular leach and accumulator things just rendering the whole thing a non event, a couple of those were pretty ugly with spawn sitting added to the mix. More than a few games where one side was just better at the game and won with ease, fair enough I don't expect to compete with the pros.
With both ships I can trade shots with cruisers, sci and carriers and sometimes do well and sometimes not, the best I can do with escorts is mildly inconvenience them with next to no chance of a single handed kill. Worse than that I can barely slow them down with tractor beam, target engines and gravity well, my sci recon tractor has so little effect on a Jemmy fighter that I barely hit the damn thing with weapons that will take forever to get through the shields anyway. Its like Muhammed Ali fighting a fat 60 year old. They come at me from all direction, I can't keep track, can't get the target I want and even when those two things come together I might as well not bother unless a teamate also gets a tractor lock going.
Is 1 game from 50ish a sensible return? - no
Do I have to run power drain specialists and become a game wrecker or just join the escorts?
Simply putting in hours and hours to become better in the hope that there might be a fun game in there somewhere just doesn't seem worth the effort.
Post edited by ovinspace on
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@Aquitaine985
Lag Industries STO PvP Fleet - Executive
A Sad Panda of Industrial calibre.
2010: This is Cryptic PvP. Please hold the line, your call is very important to us...
All that follows is from the PoV of a Sci cappy in an RSV. You say your Tractor Beam had no effect on the Jemmy, and that's probably true. However, there are a lot of why's this is the case, many more than "zomg my CC didn't wtfpwn the escort," and understanding these why's is key to becoming a top-flight crowd controller and Sci/Sci cappy. Full disclosure, I'm nothing of the sort, just a guy with a bit of experience and some rudimentary observation skills.
Let's back up for a second, though, as there's a question under your post that needs answering. Do you want to kill? Not "Do you want to setup kills for the team?" Not "Do you want to cripple your opponent's fighting ability?" Not "Do you want to be the guy with enugh healing to make a difference but not be the main healer?" Do you want to kill? I ask because you seem to be under the impression it's what you should be able to do at all times, and frankly, it's not what Sci/Sci is for. That's what Tactical Captains are for. That's especially what Tactical Captains in Escorts are for.
Now, on the tractor beam not really doing much to slow the bug down. How much Aux power did you have when you used it? How many ranks into Graviton Generators do you have? Were you close enough to the bug that the hold would take affect before he cleared 5 km? Most importantly of all did the Bug use, or already have active, Attack Pattern: Omega? See, the thing with the bug is that it is an escort which means it relies on its defense score to stay alive. What that means is being caught without a tractor break is as close to suicidal as it gets, and the Tactical Power that does that is, you guessed it, Omega, which most bugs run two copies of. Now, with this fancy Attack Pattern, they're able to ignore all movement debuffs making them very slippery and when combined with a couple of special doffs, they're able to have it available to use for 10 seconds every, oh, 15 seconds or so.
Now, all is not lost. Your tractor beam really does matter, especially if you got the target to pop Omega in response to it, since that means you're dictating what he can and can't do, at least in a small way. Combine other CC powers into the mix and things start to get even more interesting. Thinking there, what you're making the person do and not do, is the first step towards CC. You need to understand that Sci/Sci is less about killing and more about boxing in, reducing options, burning counters, and forcing and opponent to react otherwise they suffer the (potentially) debilitating effects of your abilities and once they have burnt those counters and used their powers... you snatch them away with Sub Nucleonic Beam and tell your team there's blood in the water. You are your team escort's huckleberry, you're there to make sure they can shine. 50 games isn't that many, once you've seen an escort basically bounce off a cruiser or fail to kill a target who's being focus healed, you'll start to understand what it is you do.
You mentioned using gravity well, I cannot stress how important it is you make certain to have plenty of bonuses to graviton generators lying around for its pull and only to fire it at 125 Aux power. That said, your gravity well does lots of nifty things, amongst them, it collects pet spam and creates a zone that mines simply cannot exist in. Again, this comes down to what it is Sci/Sci does: If you paired Escort-level lethality and straight killing power with your CC abilities, you'd be pretty much be an unstoppable godlike killing machine.
TL/DR: Sci/Sci makes kills, doesn't often get them, and needs to have an extremely deep understanding of not only the effects your powers apply to the target, but what your opponents use to counter your powers, and the way that affects their resistance to further crowd control.
[EDIT]
If you'd kindly post your spec and ship layouts, that'd also be helpful for trouble shooting potential weaknesses in your ship setup. Don't forget to include the DOffs you're using!
A 1v1 queue with a ranking system would be awesome.
Defiants and BOP can be tough opponents, but that jemmy is ridiculous.
I just want to play the occasional pickup game and have fun against other semi-casual players that aren't running pay 2 win with captains specced for the build. I don't want to buy a respec, buy ship(s) and put in tons of hours becoming good.
I fear that is nearly impossible in STO.
a) no matchmaking means you can fall against the newest noob team, AFK Dill farmers or a premade of hardcore players (like members from the Turkish fleet, TSI or Sad pandas).
b) a lot of skills/abilitys are poorly or wrong explained by the tooltips.
c) the number of people in STO who are doing PVP is extremely small and a lot of them are veterans. Combine this with a and you have a hard time as a new and casual PVP'er.
And thats why I stopped doing PVP after a week.
My Kling with Elusive, Accurate and ACCx2 weapons has now a new mission: gathering contraband for my feds xD
Here to help, and save you much time.
Your issue really is that your not good. Accept it and move on. I understand what you posted, and I can plainly see that also consider AFK players/numerically unbalanced teams to be undesirable. Good.
Your issue really is that your not good. If it wasn't you wouldn't be here posting about the Jem in the way that you are posting about it. What you've posted so far says 'I don't know how this works and it is annoying' and that is a fine feeling to have. Fully warranted.
Well. So some folks thought they might help out with that and they do try. And they get this bit in return; "I don't want to buy a respec, buy ship(s) and put in tons of hours becoming good"
Not agreeing that that is what it would take, just pointing out that YOU have decided that is what it would take. Along with the idea that the world changing to suit you would be far more agreeable than you changing to suit the world. Just so you know, most of us have felt the exact same way.
Okay awesome. Problem solved. Once private ques are reactivated just spam chat for like minded peeps and do a private match. I think that is the most workable solution for the parameters that you have set forth.
or...or...watch this: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLEEFBCB5E088B924C&feature=view_all
Sci ship with all white common got em off of the vendor items!! wooooo hoooooo!
Cheer and happy flying!!
PvP is about timing and teamwork. Those are like the two most important things for it out there. Learn when to strike with your alphas and coordinate attacks with teammates. PvP is Chess. Good luck! and start queuing with teammates or join OPVP
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
1) Teamwork and timing is #1
2) You cannot "Kirk It" in every ship
3) You are going to die, just get back up
I hate to be frank but you're not going to achieve that goal. Anyone can PVP, but if you want to win then a large part of that involves putting time into your build, putting money/EC's into your gear, taking the time to understand things and using teamwork. And sach & every one of those aspects go against your upper sentance.
@Aquitaine985
Lag Industries STO PvP Fleet - Executive
A Sad Panda of Industrial calibre.
2010: This is Cryptic PvP. Please hold the line, your call is very important to us...
Truer words about PvP have never been spoken.
PvP is a sport and like all sports one must pratice and learn to succeed.
R.I.P
Hello, read my siglink for good guides on making a good build. You won't have to respec at all unless you really care to minmax your build.
It should be as easy as reading the guides and applying the info. Just find the right guide for your ship type. Don't get discouraged at all. The guys that play regularly are very beatable. They only seem unstoppable because of how the game mechanics work. Cryptic does an absolutely horrible job of explaining how the game works. In fact, most of the work in educating people has been done by the people in my siglink.
PvPers "cracked" Cryptic's code and figured it out for the benefit of the masses.
There are also a lot of "I win" builds which are weak or useless in a team setting but nigh uncounterable in duels
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Where do you get that idea from... most major MMO titles are NOT pvp centric. I don't know the numbers, however I think most people will agree who play the major titles. The vast majority of the people playing those games do not partake in pvp there either. PvP for the mass market isn't a driving factor in the business model.
There is a market for PvP of course... of course the market for those games tend to gravitate to them. Its why EVE has a small but consistent sub number. You will never see games like MWO or GW2 rival a WOW in terms of sub numbers. I don't see the numbers of course I would also bet the pvp titles have less turn.
So anyway lets have it Sophie how would YOU change the game... tell us cause we all know your dying to write a 5 paragraph response. No one is even going to argue with any points you make there won't be any point. Perhaps we'll give you a "thats nice".
Well SOMEONE has to be Frank! Liking it is not required!
A few simple changes:
1. You only get credit for your daily quest if you have helped with at least 1 kill. They already track that so maybe it won't be that hard to make it an objective for the daily.
That would help against afk and might motivate players to play better. Getting one kill should not be that hard.
2. Introduce a leaver penalty in pvp. Same thing we have for STFs.
3. Add a 10v10 queue, max team size 2 people. Cross faction. With that many people and no real premades it should balance the teams a bit. And who does not like 10v10 space madness?
My stomach is clear and my mind is full of bacon!
uhm... ever seen a pug vs. premade? usually always ends in a 0-15...
I think getting 1 kill would be a reasonable thing.
My stomach is clear and my mind is full of bacon!
In a 10v10 cross faction queue you are a small part of a big team. So it might increase the win ratio of bad players and lower that of good players. There is no reason not to queue when good players are around because they should be in our team half of the time.
I would look at 10v10 as a more casual way of pvp. Something more like cnh is now, or kerrat.
I would agree on that and in a way that is the point. It is a more casual approach to pvp and might offer something that people try to find in cnh.
A 1v1 queue might be nice to test personal skills, but without a matchmaking it could be pretty frustrating for average players.
3v3 would also be nice, I could get a 3 man team with my friends but we almost never manage to have 5 players online at the same time. While such a mode would be nice for more competitive players we should probably try to attract casual pvpers first. Once there are more people enjoying pvp we might have an easier time to get pvp improvements from the devs.
My stomach is clear and my mind is full of bacon!
hmm... I haven't bothered queueing up since s7, with the rep grinding and the bug and all... so things may have changed... pre-s7 however, i think at least half the matches that popped were against premades. And no, I'll go PvE before I go begging for charity.
I don't understand where this whole grind thing has come from. I haven't had to grind ONCE so far in S7. One half decent elite space STF gives me more then enough marks to cover a day and a half's worth of rep projects. Plus with the inception of opening the Omega Crates at any time from today's patch, Omega Marks aren't going to be a problem. The only time you're expected to grind will be for the new items the tiers unlock, and that's kinda the point.
As for the Rommies, I do the two PVE queue'd missions one or twice a day so I can get their accolades and i'm sat on a mountain of those marks as well. It's really not half the "grind" I was expecting. Ironically I went onto S7 thinking i'd be too busy Carebearing to pew, I've now got just as much time but haven't been in the queues at all, I'm just getting bored of new PVP related problems appearing, including BOTS, and nothing being done. It's just not really worth the agro anymore lol.
@Aquitaine985
Lag Industries STO PvP Fleet - Executive
A Sad Panda of Industrial calibre.
2010: This is Cryptic PvP. Please hold the line, your call is very important to us...
Doing one mission you don't like to do, just because you need some numbers, is a grind.
A grind is doing the same thing over and over again in succession. One STF a day isn't going to kill you, and certainly isn't a "grind".
I'm far from a fan of Season 7, I don't like it at all, but you can't complain about everything all of the time, specially when you're not really making a point.
@Aquitaine985
Lag Industries STO PvP Fleet - Executive
A Sad Panda of Industrial calibre.
2010: This is Cryptic PvP. Please hold the line, your call is very important to us...
+1 /10 char
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...