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The disparity between federation shipping and KDF shipping.
disposeableh3r0
Member Posts: 1,927 Arc User
Some basics before I begin. I will not be including fleet ships or lock box ships in any of my examples since they are not available to everyone all the time and are not account wide. I will be including all c-store ships and any ships that are defunct due to play levels being deleted. I will not be discussing the difference in their stats at equivalent levels since the inherent differences are what makes then unique. I will do my best to completely balance the two sides but I will also do my best to keep them unique. I will split this into multiple posts to make it easier to read.
First the KDF, some basic numbers. Currently there are 34 available Klingon ships including the now nonexistent levels of play and c-store options. These break down as:
1 starter ship - no c-store options
3 LTC ships - no c-store options
3 CMDR ships - 6 c-store options with 1 weapon, 4 console abilities, and 1 unique hangar pet
3 CAPT ships - 6 c-store options with 5 console abilities and 1 unique hangar pet
5 BG/MG ships - 2 c-store ships with 1 console ability, 1 unique hangar pet, and 1 ship bound carrier pet.
0 LTG ships - 1 vet ship, 4 c-store ships, all abilities at this level are ship bound but, 2 non console ship abilities 5 console abilities and 2 carrier specific pets.
It?s worth noting that at maximum level there are 6 ship classes available and if you include c-store ships there are 5 classes available at commander and captain. The classes are Raiders, Escorts, Cruisers, Science vessels, flight deck cruisers, and carrier vessels.
The KDF has no dedicated science ships in their basic ship lists but do gain access to science vessels through c-store purchases, but only from the Commander through Brigadier general/Major general levels. Almost all KDF ships have some kind of cloaking device installed and can equip cannons. The KDF has no variant of any existing ship available.
In comparison, the Federation has 46 available ships including c-store ships. These break down as:
1 starter ship -3 c-store options with 2 console powers and 1 weapon 1 non c-store option with 1 console
3 LTC ships - 3 c-store options with 3 console powers
3 CMDR ships - 3 c-store options with 3 console abilities
3 CAPT ships - 3 c-store options with 1 weapon and 2 console abilities
6 RA/RAUH ships - 3 c-store options with 2 console abilities and one ship bound ability. Each of the original 3 ship classes has 1 variant, these variants have a different ensign only level slot and a single console variation.
0 VA ships - 1 vet ship, 13 c-store options all abilities at this level are ship specific. 1 weapon, 1 unique carrier pet, and 10 console abilities.
It's worth noting that until VA level there are only 3 ship classes to choose from, after VA level there are 5. There is no raider class vessel or flight deck cruiser available period and only one carrier. The federation does get the escort carrier class of vessel. The federation has only 2 vessels that cloak and only escorts, carriers and the dreadnaught cruiser can equip cannons. The federation does get greater variation at the admiral levels than the KDF with the available variants and the 2 c-store consoles than can be put into lower lever versions of the same ships.
So here is my assessment, there needs to be the same number of ships available to both factions at al levels. This includes the levels that don't currently exist for klingons but they could be added anyway if only to sell the attached consoles. There needs to be the same numbers of classes available at all levels of play, personally, I feel that if there is a science vessel available for sale to the KDF there should be a raider for sale to the Federation, and that, the escort carrier needs to be retrograded back to the Commander level. The argument that raiders are unique to the KDF and that's why the Fed shouldn't get one falls on its face when you remember that the Science vessel is supposed to be unique to the Fed but the KDF can get one. Granted the Gorn ships are slightly different so a fed raider should be slightly different.
My recommendations are:
1.Add 4 c-store starter ships to the KDF. A starter escort, a starter cruiser, a better starter BOP, and maybe a starter non klingon ship.
2.Add 3 LTC level c-store ships to the KDF.
3.Add 3 CMDR level c-store ships to the Federation, An escort carrier, a cruiser, and a raider type vessel. More on a fed raider to come don?t flame me yet.
4.Add 3 CAPT level c-store ships to the Federation of the same previous types.
5.Add a variant to the BG raptor and carrier. Add a Klingon Flight deck cruiser, a BOP, and another destroyer to the c-store. Add an escort carrier and raider for the feds to the c-store and add a frigate class vessel to the RA selection (more on that later).
6.Add 6 more LTG ships to the c-store for the KDF, 1 raider, 1 frigate class vessel, 2 escorts, 2 science vessel, and 1 flight deck cruiser.Then add a 3 ship variety pack similar to the vesta. Add a c-store frigate vessel for the Federation.
I see The federation getting Andorian raiders, Vulcan cruisers, and Caitian escort carriers.
More to follow later.
First the KDF, some basic numbers. Currently there are 34 available Klingon ships including the now nonexistent levels of play and c-store options. These break down as:
1 starter ship - no c-store options
3 LTC ships - no c-store options
3 CMDR ships - 6 c-store options with 1 weapon, 4 console abilities, and 1 unique hangar pet
3 CAPT ships - 6 c-store options with 5 console abilities and 1 unique hangar pet
5 BG/MG ships - 2 c-store ships with 1 console ability, 1 unique hangar pet, and 1 ship bound carrier pet.
0 LTG ships - 1 vet ship, 4 c-store ships, all abilities at this level are ship bound but, 2 non console ship abilities 5 console abilities and 2 carrier specific pets.
It?s worth noting that at maximum level there are 6 ship classes available and if you include c-store ships there are 5 classes available at commander and captain. The classes are Raiders, Escorts, Cruisers, Science vessels, flight deck cruisers, and carrier vessels.
The KDF has no dedicated science ships in their basic ship lists but do gain access to science vessels through c-store purchases, but only from the Commander through Brigadier general/Major general levels. Almost all KDF ships have some kind of cloaking device installed and can equip cannons. The KDF has no variant of any existing ship available.
In comparison, the Federation has 46 available ships including c-store ships. These break down as:
1 starter ship -3 c-store options with 2 console powers and 1 weapon 1 non c-store option with 1 console
3 LTC ships - 3 c-store options with 3 console powers
3 CMDR ships - 3 c-store options with 3 console abilities
3 CAPT ships - 3 c-store options with 1 weapon and 2 console abilities
6 RA/RAUH ships - 3 c-store options with 2 console abilities and one ship bound ability. Each of the original 3 ship classes has 1 variant, these variants have a different ensign only level slot and a single console variation.
0 VA ships - 1 vet ship, 13 c-store options all abilities at this level are ship specific. 1 weapon, 1 unique carrier pet, and 10 console abilities.
It's worth noting that until VA level there are only 3 ship classes to choose from, after VA level there are 5. There is no raider class vessel or flight deck cruiser available period and only one carrier. The federation does get the escort carrier class of vessel. The federation has only 2 vessels that cloak and only escorts, carriers and the dreadnaught cruiser can equip cannons. The federation does get greater variation at the admiral levels than the KDF with the available variants and the 2 c-store consoles than can be put into lower lever versions of the same ships.
So here is my assessment, there needs to be the same number of ships available to both factions at al levels. This includes the levels that don't currently exist for klingons but they could be added anyway if only to sell the attached consoles. There needs to be the same numbers of classes available at all levels of play, personally, I feel that if there is a science vessel available for sale to the KDF there should be a raider for sale to the Federation, and that, the escort carrier needs to be retrograded back to the Commander level. The argument that raiders are unique to the KDF and that's why the Fed shouldn't get one falls on its face when you remember that the Science vessel is supposed to be unique to the Fed but the KDF can get one. Granted the Gorn ships are slightly different so a fed raider should be slightly different.
My recommendations are:
1.Add 4 c-store starter ships to the KDF. A starter escort, a starter cruiser, a better starter BOP, and maybe a starter non klingon ship.
2.Add 3 LTC level c-store ships to the KDF.
3.Add 3 CMDR level c-store ships to the Federation, An escort carrier, a cruiser, and a raider type vessel. More on a fed raider to come don?t flame me yet.
4.Add 3 CAPT level c-store ships to the Federation of the same previous types.
5.Add a variant to the BG raptor and carrier. Add a Klingon Flight deck cruiser, a BOP, and another destroyer to the c-store. Add an escort carrier and raider for the feds to the c-store and add a frigate class vessel to the RA selection (more on that later).
6.Add 6 more LTG ships to the c-store for the KDF, 1 raider, 1 frigate class vessel, 2 escorts, 2 science vessel, and 1 flight deck cruiser.Then add a 3 ship variety pack similar to the vesta. Add a c-store frigate vessel for the Federation.
I see The federation getting Andorian raiders, Vulcan cruisers, and Caitian escort carriers.
More to follow later.
As a time traveller, Am I supposed to pack underwear or underwhen?
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Occidere populo et effercio confractus
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Occidere populo et effercio confractus
Post edited by disposeableh3r0 on
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I imagined the "raider" to be where andorian ships come in, if I recall correctly they were refered to as corvetts which in classical terminology places the under frigates in size (but as we know startrek rarely fits in with calssical).
As such I did intend for them to be similar to the BOP but only on the surface (like the gorn science vessels are similar to the fed ones). I think it would get nearly the same basic stats as a bop with the typical FED differences. probably not a total universal set up but perhaps just a cmdr and ltc universal with the others spread across the other careers. There would be no battle cloak or even a regular cloak. Instead it could have an innate stealth ability similar to a modern stealth fighter. This could translate as an innate defence boost or perhaps a click ability that makes you harder to detect for a few seconds (perhaps like a battle cloak without the actual invisibility) probably without the damage bonus since it doesn't expire. But this is up for debate as it doesn't actualy have to fulfil the same role as a bop's ability.
While I'm at it, the vulcan cruiser. I saw this as kind of a poor mans oddy, they start at commander and end at ra so ther arent that many variations needed. it would come with a 1.1 ish shield mod but loose 10% hull versus similarly ranked cruisers, it would have sensors analysis and trade its second engineer bo with its highet sci bo. Perhaps a slight increase in turn rate as well. The special consoles would probably be defensive or sciencey in nature. An example, at commander level I see it looking like.....
Vulcan Cruiser
hull - 23400
shield mod 1.1
turn rate 9 degrees per sec
imp mod .16
600 crew
weapons 3/3
ltc eng
lt sci
lt tac
ens eng
ens sci
consoles 3/2/1
4 device slots
+5 power to shields and engines
+10 to aux
sensors analysis
and it goes on from there.
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Occidere populo et effercio confractus
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Occidere populo et effercio confractus
Okay, first off my critique. I'm not sure how you can justify discounting fleet ships but counting Z-Store ships. Joining a fleet is not that hard dude!
33 to 40 is your final assessment and you think it should be 40 to 40. Okay, I understand and respect your opinion, lets even say that, in a perfect world, I agree. You think the various different classes of ships should be made available to both factions, okay I'm down with that too in a perfect world.
The question ends up being where do we, as a playerbase, prioritize the development of these ships in comparison to... new STF's, new featured episodes, new Klingon mission content, new factions, new shirts, new pvp maps, bug fixes, and anything else you can think of that needs to be added to the game.
I do not count fleet ships because ther are merely re-hashings of existing ships so if there were more ships to work with you would eventualy end up with more fleet ships any way. And I know joining a fleet isn't that hard the point is not only do you need to join a fleet that fleet also has to have the resources to build that ship and if you purchase it its only available to the character you purchased it with.
I am not saying that these should be done immediately in fact 6 of the ships are for levels that don't currently exist on the KDF side. It was merely a list of the differences and what could be done to even things out. The schedual should reflect where each faction is lacking, in the case of the Feds it should be more lower level ships and in the case of the KFD it should be more high level ships. So the next fed ship should be a commander or captain level and the next kdf ship should be a General level.
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Occidere populo et effercio confractus
Ship development cost money - and PWE wants max profit for their investment FED at 80%+ of the player base = max profit = no KDF ships
It;s pretty simple.
Fairness does not or will not exist in the business decisions.
My recommendation... stop asking for new content to be placed in the C-Store...!!!!
They wont make it if it won't make them money. And not all of the ships are c store.
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Occidere populo et effercio confractus
Dstahl has said he plans on making more KDF content, including ships, now that season 6is out.
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Occidere populo et effercio confractus
Okay, for some fleet ships I can see your point, but for others not at all. The Fleet Vorcha-R has a dramatically different BOFF layout. The Heavy Cruiser Retrofit shares the BOFF layout with the standard assault cruiser, but has different stat and a different appearance. The Fleet Patrol Escort Retrofit has a universal BOFF station. Then there's the case of the Aquariaus Destroyer and Hoh'SuS BoP, only playable as stand alone ships via the fleet system.
As for as the schedule goes, I can see the merits of releasing them to fill perceived lacks in the fleet. However, any new leveling ship that gets introduced into the game has to be a c-store ship with a special console power. Otherwise it'll be a vanity project that the majority of the player base will ignore and it will be prioritized accordingly, think a 2017 release after they've added the Pakled faction.
The main reason anyone flies the BoPs is for the combination of universal boff slots as well as the battlecloak. They pay dearly for those features, perhaps too dearly. I can't see the Federation flying something like that, because they have enough escorts to pick from that they can emulate any build the BoP can be suited for, and probably do it better, so that negates the advantage of having universal boff slots. If you give the battlecloak to a Federation 'raider', you might as well disband the KDF faction entirely and mix it in with the Federation, because that's one of the last truly distinctive ship features of the KDF (there's a Fed cruiser that can equip cannons AND cloak, and the Defiant can cloak). So that option's probably off the table.
Basically, I'm saying the Federation probably doesn't want or need a Federation-esque raider vessel (just look at the complaints about the Aquarius, which is what a raider-level ship would look like).
Half the reason I even fly the Hegh'ta BoP is because the Qin's turning radius is borked and the rest of the ship is not terribly impressive (though the battlecloak and universal slots have their own allure). I might get the Fleet Scourge Destroyer or the Fleet Somraw, as I'm hearing good things about those, or I might get the Fleet Hoh'sus. All of those ships are a definite improvement, which is nice to see for KDF escort/raider ships.
EDIT: Apologies if this seem weird and rambling, I'm on painkillers atm.
It can easily fill all the roles of a Raider in striking behind enemy lines with ease, Alpha attack from cloak, spy-work behind enemy lines, harrassing supply lines in war, etc.
R.I.P
Sadly true, though its no excuse to not keep the pressure of the importance up.
R.I.P
How long have you been around? You should talk to Roach(a.K.a - the inappropriate to get them to listen to him "bitemepwe") - he will tell you that from launch Mr Stahl has said a lot of things - just like a good politian does to get elected - promises of tax cut and no cuts to services - or the grand-daddy Tax cuts and increased services!! Only after the election to say - well I got a look at the numbers - I had NOOO idea it was this bad - sorry going to have to raise taxes and cut services.
For the record my name is bitemepwe becuase of the forum conversion would not let me use the name Roach and I was feeling snarky at PWE for the change. I have tried to get it changed many times but the process always stalls out and I never get to send the complete request.
While what you say is true, we have had lots of lip service when it comes to KDF growth and even poor attention in the past, my current campaign of KDF growth is based on rumors and other things I was told from the Vegas con.
Information that gives me hope and a desire to keep the KDF firmly in the Devs minds for the seasons to come in the next few years.
So rather than focusing on the past regrets, past excuses and past reasons I keep my eyes forward for the future becuase living in the past alone only weakens our position.
R.I.P
Keep you gaurd up. Many will regale you with the lost promises of the past and how the situation is hopeless.
R.I.P
I have updated my posts with what I meant by "raider". I agree cloaking of any kind should be kept to the KDF (with few exceptions). The aquarius looks horribad being that its simply a lighter version of an escort and has no distinctive features.
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Occidere populo et effercio confractus
To your first point. even the fleet vorcha is still a vorcha, it's just a boff setup similar to the regent with the typical klingon twist ( I have one I love it). if there were more basic and c-store ships then we would see them get fleet versions anyway maybe with new layouts maybe not. The fleet armitage is just a slight buff while the fleet rhode island is a new setup, but those are both ships that existed previously and there fore were available to be toyed with.
To your second point, yes that is exactly what I was going for there are only a few ships i think should be added in the free section and thats mainly to make the number of free choices available even on both sides.
I suggested the KDF get 2 free variants of existing BG level ships (bringing the total to 7) and that the federation get 1 new ship class free (also bringing the total to 7)
These were an escort and a carrier variant for the KDF, and, a frigate class for the Federation. meaning each side gets 7 ship choices across 4 classes non c-store.
BTW I'm taking suggestions on what a fed 4th class should actualy be.
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Occidere populo et effercio confractus
Since launch actualy. So I also remember that Atari didn't want to fund them and that they were independant for a while then a massive conversion to F2P then a massive content push. I also remember perigrin falcons compilation on everything the KDF has been promised and not given. I remember leveling up my KDF characters from level 1 with almost nothing to actualy do. It has infact gotten better just slowly. I think their plate has been prety full lately and that it takes time and resources they couldn't spare to create content for but a small fraction of the player base. I also believe that they truly do want to finish the KDF and that as soon as they have the time and money we will see lots of stuff start to show up.
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Occidere populo et effercio confractus
Shields up. Red alert.
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Occidere populo et effercio confractus
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Occidere populo et effercio confractus
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Occidere populo et effercio confractus
Everything DStahl says is a lie.
Its only a lie if he specificaly stated he will do so. He did not. He said he would like to do it not that he will do it.
Besides that your post is off topic.
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Occidere populo et effercio confractus