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After 8 STF's in a row ... it hit me
aelfwin1
Member Posts: 2,896 Arc User
So yesterday evening I want on a "shotgun" run of the STF's -- but now , instead of six missions in a row , we had eight missions to do .
I was pretty exited ... for two reasons :
I have not done the ground missions since S.7 started (tried a few times , but almost always nobody wanted to do them ... , as they take too long , gotta make that Dil quick now...) .
I was also exited because although we were an organized PUG , these guys were new to me and they seemed like really decent players & team mates .
This was kinda important to me as I have managed to fail Into the Hive (ground elite) quite a few times before (even with my best Sci tank/healer) , so I was thinking that maybe this time we might make it ... -- and after a few times , we did .
We left the newer missions for the last as we did not want to get bogged down at the beginning with the difficult stuff , but at the end of the run , one of the players posted a comment that really stung , and
it went something like this :
"... and after All This ... I have yet to hit my Dil cap ! "
Now I have not done the math before , and I don't think that I've seen a "shotgun" math posted before , but it's really easy :
960 x 8 = 7680
I really don't know what to say to that .
Considering that prior S.7 , you could hit your Dil cap (if you had good Tech drops) in 3-4 STF's (yes , all the STF's , not just cycling Infected Space ad nasium) , this was just ... . I dunno . It left me shaking my head .
This brought home the raw understanding that STO is a "farming" game now .
I have to farm , I have to farm hard ... -- no not play hard ... that's what I did in the 8 STF's and I still could not hit the Dil cap -- and I have to use the quickest routes to get to my Dil cap , if there are any .
Some here complained that we've had it "too easy" (got too much in a fair way) .
Some have complained that some players used their precious Foundry "not in a way it was intended" .
To those , I say now that the reality that I woke up to is that we need clicky missions Now , More Then Ever .
See , I have not used clicky missions before that post about a month ago from Levi3 .
Didn't see the need .
Was I naive ?
Was it naive to think that Dil was not a "big deal" ?
As a player , saying now that we need quick n'dirty tricks , because without them we might as well "be happy" with 3000-4000 Dil per day ... -- it makes me feel crummy & cheap .
This sort of "farming achievement" is not something that makes me feel proud .
I was pretty exited ... for two reasons :
I have not done the ground missions since S.7 started (tried a few times , but almost always nobody wanted to do them ... , as they take too long , gotta make that Dil quick now...) .
I was also exited because although we were an organized PUG , these guys were new to me and they seemed like really decent players & team mates .
This was kinda important to me as I have managed to fail Into the Hive (ground elite) quite a few times before (even with my best Sci tank/healer) , so I was thinking that maybe this time we might make it ... -- and after a few times , we did .
We left the newer missions for the last as we did not want to get bogged down at the beginning with the difficult stuff , but at the end of the run , one of the players posted a comment that really stung , and
it went something like this :
"... and after All This ... I have yet to hit my Dil cap ! "
Now I have not done the math before , and I don't think that I've seen a "shotgun" math posted before , but it's really easy :
960 x 8 = 7680
I really don't know what to say to that .
Considering that prior S.7 , you could hit your Dil cap (if you had good Tech drops) in 3-4 STF's (yes , all the STF's , not just cycling Infected Space ad nasium) , this was just ... . I dunno . It left me shaking my head .
This brought home the raw understanding that STO is a "farming" game now .
I have to farm , I have to farm hard ... -- no not play hard ... that's what I did in the 8 STF's and I still could not hit the Dil cap -- and I have to use the quickest routes to get to my Dil cap , if there are any .
Some here complained that we've had it "too easy" (got too much in a fair way) .
Some have complained that some players used their precious Foundry "not in a way it was intended" .
To those , I say now that the reality that I woke up to is that we need clicky missions Now , More Then Ever .
See , I have not used clicky missions before that post about a month ago from Levi3 .
Didn't see the need .
Was I naive ?
Was it naive to think that Dil was not a "big deal" ?
As a player , saying now that we need quick n'dirty tricks , because without them we might as well "be happy" with 3000-4000 Dil per day ... -- it makes me feel crummy & cheap .
This sort of "farming achievement" is not something that makes me feel proud .
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments
STFs are primarily about their own currency now (Omega Marks) since they contribute to both alternate progression and cheap gear access (much cheaper than buying gear through dilithium or fleet stores).
I gate my 3 characters and outside the marks required for that in turn in some occasional contraband.
I don't know if re-unlocking the gear will change that around, that I might become active again once I can put in work on my own time.
But I got to to thinking I already have all the ground sets, space sets and don't plan on upgrading my weapons.
So what's left to go for if you on top of that is a cheap sob too :cool:
It's like down to entourage and the flamethrower to me I guess...
I guess the winter event will give me something to do, I really feel I deserve the shard of possibilities.
The only thing left really is getting the infected ground optional on my last characters, albeit that's not up to me - I've been ready and able to do it for a long time but always end up with people failing me.
In any case, minus the optional, I don't see the old days of farming stf coming back for me - whereas before I actually felt rewarded and were willing to play them a lot I am now consciously trying to play as little as I have to because it feels like work.
If I can make enough dilithium for the few items I want, selling stuff and buying contraband, I could see it going lights out for stf completely for me.
960x8= 7680
8 (BNP) x 200= 1600
480 (omega marks, 60 per eSTF) x 10 = 4800
So really, 8 STFs = 14080 dilithium potential
It's actually more than that assuming you get optionals( ~1200 dilithium), and that's not even counting the drops they are adding back in.
So, yeh, your still hitting dil cap in approx 4 STFs, which takes about an hour. It's pretty forgiving.
Hey guys, look, a time traveler! In his time, things we know as having been suggested but not implemented or guaranteed are everyday gameplay features!
They're suppose to be patched in by the end of the month, They're not suggestions, they are straight from Stahl. I'm not sure what more you want, unless whining about stuff that's already been addressed is really that important to you. You can even save your marks and trade them all in at a later date, so it's not like your losing anything from them not being implemented right now.
From what I can tell, it just really peeves you off when someone doesn't hate on season 7, regardless of how baseless the claim is. It's pretty pathetic.
To think that STO is any different is kind of unrealistic. The Devs wanted to slow progress. They wanted to make it a little harder to get items. That's just the nature of games. If you got through all the new content and got all the best gear in a month, you'd possibly stop playing and head off to another game till another big content patch came out. The idea is to keep you around so they have a chance at making a little money. I think once people accept that and just deal with it, we can all have a better time with it.
In a word....THIS
I did go through the content rapidly and you know what, I kept playing stf anyway. Some days even over the limit.
The thing is, stf, includingly the kiddielies after having all my gear on all my characters, was my only dilithium in-come...
Now with the rewards gone I play a minimum for reputation marks only and I have zero dilithium coming in.
It might change when and if I unlock our old gear again but I doubt it - I already have everything, honestly depending on the prices I could see myself not buying a single item from the rep store and not play stf or go for romulan marks after I hit t5.
Simply go in-active, have my fleet unlock everything and maybe get 1 or 2 items before season 8.
The turning point being I was willing to farm stf for unlocks whereas now I am not.
So the supposed effect of prolonging my game time had the reversed effect, it totally killed it.
Since they're going to make mark conversion to dilithium immediately available instead of tier 5, you can make 1460 dil per estf and still have some marks left over. 960 for completion, and since you always get 60+ marks, convert 50 into 500 dilihtium. so that'll help some what, and when you come to a point where you need marks instead of dilithium, hold back on converting till you get what you need.
Course, this is all pending overlord stahl not wanting to change the dilithium amounts, again.
That's too bad. Seriously, I'm sad for you. I am genuinely sad that you feel the game has lost any other interest to you.
Me? I *like* doing the fleet actions (and S7 changes have encouraged me to try the ground fleet actions, which I'd never done before). I like now that my dilithium income isn't limited to STFs out the TRIBBLE. I find the game more fun.
In the end? Some people are gonna like changes, some people are gonna dislike them. That's the way the cookie crumbles.
What I am saying is, the reputation system is gear I have that now costs infintely more than it used to in addition to me having it already.
That and earning dil for fleet projects or c-store items or whatever just went out the window.
... which happend to be my main gameplay before.
I still play, just more afk than anything and I don't do missions.
Sell some stuff buy some contraband
And sure there is stuff I look forward to like getting some of the winter re-run items or seeing the romulan oufit on embassy t3.
It is true, though, that eventually we will be in that position. The question is will it be worth it. Well, yes it will be because it will still be the best, quickest method. However, I don't know how you figure 4 STFS as the max we'll get is 1660 dil per STF. Are they still doing wed/thur extra rewards? Since when will there be 1200 dil for opt wins that you mentioned? Is it always going to be 1200 dil for every opt win no matter the day and I missed that part from his mouth? Even at 1200 for opt wins that's just an extra 240 dil per STF. In any case the bare min will be 5 STFs. Then you have to figure the typical time it takes for STFs outside the realm of uber i.e. public cues that are a 1 in 4 chance of being great runs. It's going to take longer than 1 hour to reach 8k dil.
I liked the way things were because I could do STFS for a few hours each day, get enough dilithium to last like 3 refinement days, and never have to ever touch another tiring dilithium quest. That's gone now. I wouldn't exactly call it a forgiving system. More like a "**** you" system for never needing to purchase dilithium because I was a hardcore gamer and not a casual gamer. So I suppose you can be happy with the compromise if you wish. Frankly I think that's what Cryptic wanted all along. I seriously think they got less of a black eye going with the way they did than if they had just out right cut the dil earnings because they saw how we reacted every time they would nerf dilithium somewhere in preparations for season 6 and 7. By taking it all away from STFs and then giving it back at a reduced rate it allowed them to get away with it judging by how so many people are now happy with the so called compromise. It's a masterful plan if true. I need to remember it if I ever find myself in the shoes of Dan at some other MMO in the future. If it wasn't planned out they'd do well to remember what happened and use it to their advantage in the future.
Their ultimate plan was for hardcore players to have less dilithium. Doesn't matter much what went down or how. It's obvious that was their goal. It's made more obvious than ever when they explain they want more players with dilithium in their bank accounts but go ahead and nerf FAs by 66% regardless because STFs got their dil back. That's all they wanted, period. But instead of doing the usual blabbering I do about how it's monetary reasons, I think I've come to the conclusion that that's not necessarily true. From a certain point of view maybe, but it could have simply been about the ease of getting STF dil, players with many accounts playing all day, and turning that dil into mass amounts of zen. They did mention how that was a problem for them with the daily reports, how people were getting however much dilithium and sending it over to their mains. So I can see it being freebie zen related and certain players were amassing a wealth of free zen easily. In that case I don't blame them in the least. But I'm still going to be unhappy about it due to the massive dil requirements in this game these days. I can't afford the extra time to make STO my only MMO. I guess it's a personal choice problem I just have to accept and deal with it and move on from typing overly long posts about it.
Besides, I'm much more concerned with romulan marks than I am dilithium these days. Those TRIBBLE are grindy as hell. I spent hours and hours and hours yesterday grinding just 250 marks, trying to reach that massive 500 goal for that new console. I think I might have fell asleep at one point for a few seconds. I guess I needed to do more cues than new romulus... I still think it's fine though. Coming from FFXI this **** here is a sub par grind experience at best. FFXI is like the major league and STO is still stuck at tee ball levels of grind play.
... A surly time traveler, then.
Stahl talked about it. He never said "I guarantee this will happen", as far as I know. Not that it would mean much if he did. He said dilithium in ESTF wasn't going away just prior to season 7's launch, and yet it did, and it took a massive community outcry to restore it (in a very backhanded way that promptly ended any new interest people had in running fleet actions that gave dil).
It's just not accurate to say "Things aren't so bad, you can do this", when we can't. Maybe we can in the future. But until it's actually possible, it's... not possible.
Yup.
They made dilithium about 300% harder to get (ESTF rewards halved, no 1440 dailies) at the same time they introduced new systems that force us to play content that gives no dilithium at all in order to progress in the reputation system and new items with gratuitously high dil costs, many of which are just duplicates of things that we could already get for a loss less effort in previous versions.
I'm in the same boat you are. I used to play until my dil was maxed out and then do other stuff because I was no longer under a "deadline" to get that 8K per character in before evening. But now there's no point. I only need to sign in once a day to check on rep projects and it's impossible to max out my dilithium across 3 characters now unless I turn it into a full time job. They give us one goal that is time gated in a way that we can't progress faster than a snail's pace no matter how much we work on it, and another goal that's been pushed back so far that it's unachievable for anything approaching a sane amount of effort. Now I just can't find the energy to play much at all. I'm not even angry, just.... depressed and apathetic in a way that is making me cast around for something more fun to do with my time.
Doesn't make much difference, most of us will spend the vast majority of this season converting them to dil after the first couple months
960 to complete
200 for a BNC
750 for 75 omega marks (average reward for eSTF with optional
=1910
Plus any random rewards like the daily event or a loot bag
I get the optional on 95% of my pug runs and it currently takes me about 40 minutes to finish all the space but the new one.. If your not capable of that, run in a premade group and you'll easily manage.
I'd like world peace. I also make 3-4k dilithium a day just from doffs off my main., I highly recommend working on that. Making dilithium in this game is ridiculously easy. I play maybe 2 hours 5 days a week and come away with a 2k a day surplus over my daily cap (so 10k total), and I'm not even converting marks and BNc yet. I played 2 hours this morning and I'm already sitting on 12k dilithium today,
I think the idea was closing down the dilithium gravy train on people who were exploiting multiple alts with a billion doffs who we're doing 5 second dilithium reward clicky missions. Considering the current Zen/Dil conversion, and how much more dil is worth now to the average player, I'd say they were successful. If you consider hardcore as someone who was exploiting alts in the manner described, then yeah I guess they were. Good riddance. I'd argue that even if the average player is making less dil today, that dil is worth more and the average player is coming out way ahead.
Do the space dailys. Then turn them in(and all quests that reward marks) during reward hour. Bonuses are determined by when you turn in quests. It's like 100 marks in 30 minutes or less per day. But I agree, I'm concerned about Romulan marks since that's where I'll be buying the most gear from... Mostly cause I dislike ground combat and the new Tholian missions they put in aren't very fun or challenging.
What I find interesting is how you can break forum rules, by trolling and insulting other players, calling them whiners and pathetic and such, and there are no consequences.
I wonder why that is......
If you can't advance your point without being insulting or breaking forum rules, maybe you shouldn't participate in the forums.
Not debating whether or not it's humanly possible to earn 8 k a day:D
If it were just as easy to earn dil now as before, why did we need the changes again
Sounds too good to be true. Until I see this in an official patch note, I do not believe a word or number.
How long does Omega>Dil conversion project take? If you can't have them complete very quickly then that'll be another time gate to getting your dil.
yea since the changes ive rarely hit my cap unless i was on all day and turning in contraband and bnp
Probably because they're spreading misinformation and being condescending when people correct them("look guys a time traveler"). Then they don't even bother to check the information after they're corrected. There is a whole post by Stahl on precisely what changes are being made, read it and inform yourself instead of spreading discontent and innuendo.
Exception does not equal the rule.
Now with two of my main DL sources heavily nerfed I am feeling like I am losing my motivation. I don't want to play half a day to even reach the cap. With the new romulan mission and reputation projects it has become harder to find the time for fleet missions and since I am not alone with it, our base is progressing only very slowly.
Ooookaaay then Mr.Very Angry Man Who Loves Season 7 So Much It Makes Him Very Angry ... with other players .
Let's check your facts :
Now in my math , 1910 x 8 = 15280
That number is a bit different than the "14080 dilithium potential" you posted in the same thread .
Is this due to the fact that you can't do all 8 STF's in the STF Bonus hour , or because of something else ?
Except that he's not the only STF player who feels dead inside after S.7 .
Three STF channels I'm on barely see any activity , and even EliteSTF is struggling (haven't seen them promote the channel on the forums since S.7 started) .
If I was a skeptic , I'd be more curious as to the army of posters with 10 posts under their belt that have showed up to defend the everlasting glory that is Season 7 ... . :rolleyes:
It's ok xantris , I know that you're not part of that bunch , you're just angry because ... you're angry . See , when I was having fun in STO playing a new FA or an exceptionally good STF run , I did not show up on the forums angry . I showed up happy and exited . You do not sound happy or exited . You just sound angry . And from your anger flows the contempt that the rest of us have to contend with . Thank you for that .
Personally, I wouldn't make a mountain out of the molehill that is 140 less dilithium ore per elite run. Dropping the fleet actions from 1440 to 480/640 was much worse. Fleet actions are now only good for item farming (again) or the 50 fleetmarks from the daily (which is good).
One is the w/out optionals, one is with optionals. That's why it specifically says "w/ optionals" in parentheses.
Do you even read the same forum? This forum has been flooded w/ complaints, some legitimate; and some completely ridiculous (like yours). The number of people actually stamping out the stupid is by far in the minority. You'll notice I don't jump to Cryptic's defense in threads w/ legitimate concerns, like the overpricing of Mark X/XI reputation items. If anything, I've eviserated them on several occasions since season 7 release; like removing dilithium from STFs entirely. I didn't change my tune on season 7 until Stalh came out w/ a list of changes that were almost all in-line w/ reasonable and good suggestions.
I only get angry with people who are arguing out of ignorance. Even then, it wouldn't much bother me if they wouldn't catch an attitude when the facts don't work out their way.
Also, you're welcome.
Bite me, You took my favorite past time that thing i did to escape my real life TRIBBLE and made it a boring chore. I have enough chores in my life thank you so much you wonderfull idiot moron for adding another im so friggin greatfull i think ill go puke.
This for me is the million dollar question, and the only one that we've yet to get an answer for. If it's 20 hours, that's a bit of a killer. If it's 2-4 hours, then it's going to be managable. If it 's =<1 hour then it'll be perfect, but I'm not going to get my hopes up.
Way too much whining in this thread, I'm annoyed at myself for reading it all!
Dilithium numbers for STFs (once the new changes come in on patch day) look good to me, and I think I could easily hit my daily refinement cap purely by doing STFs. I won't, because that grind has all of the fun sapped out of it after I've run them over 500 times, but I could if I wanted to. So could all of you.
Looks like plenty of you haven't read this dev blog tbh.
http://sto.perfectworld.com/news/?p=765961
Kirk's Protege.