You need to actually -watch- the episodes involving the Dominion War. Which is most of Seasons 6-7 of DS9. DS9 had some of the best space battles in all of Trek.
I have to agree with the op, STO has been very ground heavy lately, with space being relegated to grind content.
Space needs more focus and greater variation (a space version of new Romulus for example). Not just varied combat but exploration, puzzle solving and story.
Of course I suspect the main reason space has been sidelined is because how unchallenging it is.
I have to agree with the op, STO has been very ground heavy lately, with space being relegated to grind content.
Space needs more focus and greater variation (a space version of new Romulus for example). Not just varied combat but exploration, puzzle solving and story.
Of course I suspect the main reason space has been sidelined is because how unchallenging it is.
there is so much space stuff, I don't even remember how my BO look like unless they are on my Tray.
There is only really 1 reason that I come here: Starships
Why is every season now focasing more and more on ground stuff??
Last season 5 new grond missions - the Big Nukara Ground zone?
This season the New big Focas is New Romulus Ground Zone? Plus tons of other ground stuff.
What the heck?
In Season 8 - is the next update a 1000 Zen point Retrait where Q gives you a choice of 4 magical powers?
Star Trek is a mix of both space & ground, thats why its an MMORPG. In regards to starships, there are a variety of ships this game offers, and during Season 7 they are introducing the Vesta Class Starship.
I have to say there is no shortage of ships in this game.
I'd be fine with all the ground additions if ground combat didn't suck so bad. Personally I think building on a rotten foundation is a terrible idea, and would rather they stick to the games strengths(space). I haven't spent more than 20 minutes playing any of the heavy ground additions in the last 3 seasons(including the upcoming Romulan stuff), and I know a fairly decent size of the population is the same way. Seems like a lot of wasted effort to me. I'd rather there be more of a focus on new STFs, Fleet actions, episode missions, etc.
It wouldn't be so bad if every damn season didn't utilize them as the main focus of additional content.
Since you haven't gotten around to learning ground combat I'd imagine it's quite frustrating to you.
However the actual mechanics of ground combat, especially for a mmo, are great.
Just the people trying to utilize them that leave something to be desired...
I'd go as far as to say ground combat is somewhat innovative, hence also the problem!
People who are used to zombie hotbar casting are suddenly asked to play it twitch style and find themselves lost, standing out in the open and getting blasted over and over again.
Where space requires intellectual reflection and math, ground requres physical work; reflexes and pure speed, precision and co-ordinated motor skills.
And that's crazily unorthodox in an mmo, that it doesn't have scripted stats playing for you, but asking you to play yourself and I see a lot of people struggling with pretty basic stuff, not being used to it.
In addition to that you actually have more abilities and more animations to play around with on the ground.
And you can heavily mod your player model in oppose to space, especially if you roll an alien.
Can't tell if serious or not..... What is in game that is not rooted in Star Trek?
Also, I'm here for Star Trek and play it because it is Star Trek... If you are playing this game to just play another Space MMO, you will probably be disappointed. There was another thread that asked if you would play this game if it wasn't based on Star Trek... and the answer is no...lol I just wanted to point that out to possibly save you some time and to avoid seeing your ship in sector space with the name U.S.S. D3A+h p3Ni5
Not sure if this is all aimed at me in a personal attack or not......
The game is an mmo loosely based on Star Trek. It cannot be any other way, but I wish the devs would stop watering it down with every season...
Not sure if this is all aimed at me in a personal attack or not......
The game is an mmo loosely based on Star Trek. It cannot be any other way, but I wish the devs would stop watering it down with every season...
How are they watering it down? Everything I've seen in STO I can pull up on STO wiki with the exception of Aliengen creatures created by the game.
And if it's about how certain characters act out of character for their race that's Star Trek as well.
Star Trek as a series went out of it's way to show that not every member of a race was alike, not all Klingons and Romulans wanted to destroy the federation, not every Ferengi was obsessed with profit. Hell the Federation even had corrupt (human) admirals trying to use their positions for their own gain.
If you're complaining about the amount of combat then maybe it's escaped your attention but the Federation is currently at war on three fronts (Klingon, Terran Empire and Borg) and not every race that the Federation met in the show left them with no hostile intentions.
And that's just the storyline reasons, realistically speaking any company trying to push an MMO with little to no combat will find it crashing and burning because that's what people expect from MMOs.
And if it's the lockbox ships we're talking about, then check the lore behind where these ships come from, Starfleet officers have taken derelict alien ships before now and repurposed them for their own uses even renaming them (HMS Bounty).
Nearly everything the devs have done is reflected in Star Trek itself, maybe it's not to your liking, but it can be found there if you look.
Since you haven't gotten around to learning ground combat I'd imagine it's quite frustrating to you.
However the actual mechanics of ground combat, especially for a mmo, are great.
Just the people trying to utilize them that leave something to be desired...
I'd go as far as to say ground combat is somewhat innovative, hence also the problem!
People who are used to zombie hotbar casting are suddenly asked to play it twitch style and find themselves lost, standing out in the open and getting blasted over and over again.
Where space requires intellectual reflection and math, ground requres physical work; reflexes and pure speed, precision and co-ordinated motor skills.
And that's crazily unorthodox in an mmo, that it doesn't have scripted stats playing for you, but asking you to play yourself and I see a lot of people struggling with pretty basic stuff, not being used to it.
In addition to that you actually have more abilities and more animations to play around with on the ground.
And you can heavily mod your player model in oppose to space, especially if you roll an alien.
I'm well versed in ground combat, thx. I had to do it for the eSTF gear and dragged myself kicking and screaming through all of it. It's not difficult at all, the frustration comes from the fact it's poorly coded, designed, and optimized.
Simply put. No. Ground combat is god awful horrible. . The engine is flaky and buggy, the AI and pathing are disastrous, the kit system is lame, the pseudo cover/dodge system is halfassed, etc. God help you if you try and use their pseudo halfassed aim mode.
It's a terrible system, there is a good reason people hate it. Also, lets not try and play it off like its a great "twitch" based gameplay system. That's laughable to anyone who plays any sort of real twitch game. It if we're an actual well implemented twitch system, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
I'd be fine with all the ground additions if ground combat didn't suck so bad.
When I see many people suceeding at something I can't do I don't say that what they do suck, if you know what I mean.
Actually, ground combat in STO relies on some of the best game mechanics i've ever seen in a game. While I'm mostly used to boxed games, this one is at the same time easier to use and offers more challenges than most games. In fact I'd say that STO's ground combat is clearly underestimated, it has better mechanics than Skyrim or fallout 1 & 2 or many other RPG/adventure games I can't remember.
And please don't tell me it's not Star Trek, because borg-bashing raids isn't star trek either, but a game can't rely on puzzles and mysteries only; those exist but aren't really popular anymore as boxed games, and would probably make poor MMOs. If you can translate such games in MMOs and make that popular then make your own gaming company asap, you're sitting on a god mine!
Space is rather forgiving, you can make a lot of mistakes and complete your task; ground isn't and you need to learn to use your skills and abilities at the right time, and you'll need to use all of your abilities. That's what people don't get. On ground, I see many people unable to do something else than zombie mouse clicking on the primary fire mode, while ground requires to mostly use your keyboard, at least for your 10 main powers (or "spells").
Ground IS entertaining, fun, and challenging, but you need to learn to use it. If you're not willing to you're perfectly entitled to, but please don't say it sucks, because it doesn't.
When I see many people suceeding at something I can't do I don't say that what they do suck, if you know what I mean.
It's ridiculous how you think it's hard and that's why people don't like it. I'm going to let you in on a secret, people that are good at the ground combat also hate it. it's just a trash system. I've cleared all the content on elite, I've did the optionals on elite, I don't have trouble w/ the difficulty of ground combat, especially this silly TRIBBLE adventure zone nonsense. It's just plain terrible.
This answer is easy... Yes in fact it IS indeed a space and ground ish mmo i guess.. HOWEVER-
Ground content is easier than space.... waaay easier.. there is less "stuff" i.e. less game mechanic and less of everything basically in ground compared to space. Another words.. ground has less to it and takes less time to throw together than space content.
So to answer your question in one word, L-A-Z-I-N-E-S-S
People who are good at ground don't hate it, your view point is pretty narrow.
As someone who runs elite ground STFs regularly and gets 5+ mins left on the optional clocks I can tell you I like ground (except IGE)
On the ground they can develop so much more for game play. Mine trap is part of that, what a great mission. CGE is well designed, I'm glad PUGs don't make it through. Unlike in a ship you can move how you want to on the ground, you are free to control your player.
Space is dull and limiting, pew pew pew, just keep shooting, no thought, no diversity. The vault shuttle mission attempts to put some ground style game play into it, the shuttles all turn fast so its not a big deal, but look what happens? If you pug it and don't do the objectives yourself its pretty much a guaranteed failure. People that stick to space are used to the mindless shooting grind, they like that, it requires no thought, no strategy, just keep shooting.
People who are good at ground don't hate it, your view point is pretty narrow.
As someone who runs elite ground STFs regularly and gets 5+ mins left on the optional clocks I can tell you I like ground (except IGE)
On the ground they can develop so much more for game play. Mine trap is part of that, what a great mission. CGE is well designed, I'm glad PUGs don't make it through. Unlike in a ship you can move how you want to on the ground, you are free to control your player.
Space is dull and limiting, pew pew pew, just keep shooting, no thought, no diversity. The vault shuttle mission attempts to put some ground style game play into it, the shuttles all turn fast so its not a big deal, but look what happens? If you pug it and don't do the objectives yourself its pretty much a guaranteed failure. People that stick to space are used to the mindless shooting grind, they like that, it requires no thought, no strategy, just keep shooting.
I must disagree with you here.... ground pvp is far more of a grind imo than space is.. and also takes far less thought since you are only using about half as many abilities.
I'm well versed in ground combat, thx. I had to do it for the eSTF gear and dragged myself kicking and screaming through all of it. It's not difficult at all, the frustration comes from the fact it's poorly coded, designed, and optimized.
Simply put. No. Ground combat is god awful horrible. . The engine is flaky and buggy, the AI and pathing are disastrous, the kit system is lame, the pseudo cover/dodge system is halfassed, etc. God help you if you try and use their pseudo halfassed aim mode.
It's a terrible system, there is a good reason people hate it. Also, lets not try and play it off like its a great "twitch" based gameplay system. That's laughable to anyone who plays any sort of real twitch game. It if we're an actual well implemented twitch system, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Then go play any other mmo and you will see that except DCUO all have the same mechanics .Just because you get killed in ground stfs doesnt mean the ground is awful horrible.All mmos use the same mechanic and controll and from all those millions of people playing them only the specie called "sto player" or "sto reviewer" (check IGN BS reviews) thought to complain about it.
SWTOR was released after STo and it has the same mechanic.How many poeple complanied?
If you played GTA 4 of course this will look differnt but after awhile you will want the same movement mechanic for gta 4.
If anyone missed my post pages back, there IS new space stuff in S7, almost every planet in Tau Dewa has a space patrol, and there is a new patrol daily, so make sure to go to each planet and do that. There is also the tholian red alert, and azure nebula. So new space content does exist, and it is very fun.
There is only really 1 reason that I come here: Starships
Why is every season now focasing more and more on ground stuff??
Last season 5 new grond missions - the Big Nukara Ground zone?
This season the New big Focas is New Romulus Ground Zone? Plus tons of other ground stuff.
What the heck?
In Season 8 - is the next update a 1000 Zen point Retrait where Q gives you a choice of 4 magical powers?
Easily answered. Because it's easier for Cryptic to do well and with polish(meaning add more lore to the game worth paying attention to and whatnot), over a space campaign IMHO.
If anyone missed my post pages back, there IS new space stuff in S7, almost every planet in Tau Dewa has a space patrol, and there is a new patrol daily, so make sure to go to each planet and do that. There is also the tholian red alert, and azure nebula. So new space content does exist, and it is very fun.
Those patrols are basically the same thing over and over just in different skins or presentations. Load up the game today and see.
I used to hate ground combat and avoid it as much as possible. I found it slow, and annoying. With S6, Nukara Prime was one of the best sources of Fleet Marks. I also didn't have my Boffs to rely on for turrets, healing, etc. Tholians are tricky little turds in how they move too. If I wanted to go to Nukara, I had to shape up. So, I got some better gear. I learned to use my skills better. I learned to use RPG mode so I could focus fire and stay on target. I finally made my peace with ground stuff in this game. I still wouldn't say it's great, I still find space more fun, but I can mow through ground combat almost as efficiently as space now.
The other posters do have a point about quality of content. Just what can you DO in space? Nomatter what, you're always going to be in a mostly empty black void. Fly here, scan this, fly there, shoot that. It's fun to blow stuff up, but hard to tell much of a story that way. Maybe if dialogue and investigation was handled by switching to an interior view of your captain on the bridge, but that would basically require two map transfers and break the whole flow of the mission.
This answer is easy... Yes in fact it IS indeed a space and ground ish mmo i guess.. HOWEVER-
Ground content is easier than space.... waaay easier.. there is less "stuff" i.e. less game mechanic and less of everything basically in ground compared to space. Another words.. ground has less to it and takes less time to throw together than space content.
So to answer your question in one word, L-A-Z-I-N-E-S-S
Allow me to get straight to the point: I absolutely despise leaving the ship (my blood pressure is rising just thinking about it) and have done so but a couple of times during 700-ish hours of game-play. Literally, I bet I have spent under two hours off the bridge. If it were up to me, (I know most are thankful it's not!) there would be no difference between the DOFF system and ground system. (For the record, I cheated by buying the book in order to learn of the story).
Before making comparisons to other MMO's, know that this is the one and only such game I have ever played. And while it's far different from my usual sims such as x3 which, as you may know, is a single player sandbox which entails the commanding of capitol ships the size of ESD and fleets numbering in the thousands, I do love the arcade-like change of pace which STO delivers relatively flawlessly.
My apologies in advance if I came across as trying to bash the game as that's not my intention. I've spent hundreds of dollars supporting STO and I don't see that changing, however, I cannot help but to feel that every aspect of STO's ground is downright...embarrassing.
Comments
Yeah, especially since they reused a lot of it.
It is astounding how excellent writing and storytelling can mask the reuse of stock footage.
Space needs more focus and greater variation (a space version of new Romulus for example). Not just varied combat but exploration, puzzle solving and story.
Of course I suspect the main reason space has been sidelined is because how unchallenging it is.
Daizen - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Selia - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
there is so much space stuff, I don't even remember how my BO look like unless they are on my Tray.
even in S7 there is still lots of space stuff.
Star Trek is a mix of both space & ground, thats why its an MMORPG. In regards to starships, there are a variety of ships this game offers, and during Season 7 they are introducing the Vesta Class Starship.
I have to say there is no shortage of ships in this game.
It wouldn't be so bad if every damn season didn't utilize them as the main focus of additional content.
However the actual mechanics of ground combat, especially for a mmo, are great.
Just the people trying to utilize them that leave something to be desired...
I'd go as far as to say ground combat is somewhat innovative, hence also the problem!
People who are used to zombie hotbar casting are suddenly asked to play it twitch style and find themselves lost, standing out in the open and getting blasted over and over again.
Where space requires intellectual reflection and math, ground requres physical work; reflexes and pure speed, precision and co-ordinated motor skills.
And that's crazily unorthodox in an mmo, that it doesn't have scripted stats playing for you, but asking you to play yourself and I see a lot of people struggling with pretty basic stuff, not being used to it.
In addition to that you actually have more abilities and more animations to play around with on the ground.
And you can heavily mod your player model in oppose to space, especially if you roll an alien.
Not sure if this is all aimed at me in a personal attack or not......
The game is an mmo loosely based on Star Trek. It cannot be any other way, but I wish the devs would stop watering it down with every season...
How are they watering it down? Everything I've seen in STO I can pull up on STO wiki with the exception of Aliengen creatures created by the game.
And if it's about how certain characters act out of character for their race that's Star Trek as well.
Star Trek as a series went out of it's way to show that not every member of a race was alike, not all Klingons and Romulans wanted to destroy the federation, not every Ferengi was obsessed with profit. Hell the Federation even had corrupt (human) admirals trying to use their positions for their own gain.
If you're complaining about the amount of combat then maybe it's escaped your attention but the Federation is currently at war on three fronts (Klingon, Terran Empire and Borg) and not every race that the Federation met in the show left them with no hostile intentions.
And that's just the storyline reasons, realistically speaking any company trying to push an MMO with little to no combat will find it crashing and burning because that's what people expect from MMOs.
And if it's the lockbox ships we're talking about, then check the lore behind where these ships come from, Starfleet officers have taken derelict alien ships before now and repurposed them for their own uses even renaming them (HMS Bounty).
Nearly everything the devs have done is reflected in Star Trek itself, maybe it's not to your liking, but it can be found there if you look.
I'm well versed in ground combat, thx. I had to do it for the eSTF gear and dragged myself kicking and screaming through all of it. It's not difficult at all, the frustration comes from the fact it's poorly coded, designed, and optimized.
Simply put. No. Ground combat is god awful horrible. . The engine is flaky and buggy, the AI and pathing are disastrous, the kit system is lame, the pseudo cover/dodge system is halfassed, etc. God help you if you try and use their pseudo halfassed aim mode.
It's a terrible system, there is a good reason people hate it. Also, lets not try and play it off like its a great "twitch" based gameplay system. That's laughable to anyone who plays any sort of real twitch game. It if we're an actual well implemented twitch system, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
When I see many people suceeding at something I can't do I don't say that what they do suck, if you know what I mean.
Actually, ground combat in STO relies on some of the best game mechanics i've ever seen in a game. While I'm mostly used to boxed games, this one is at the same time easier to use and offers more challenges than most games. In fact I'd say that STO's ground combat is clearly underestimated, it has better mechanics than Skyrim or fallout 1 & 2 or many other RPG/adventure games I can't remember.
And please don't tell me it's not Star Trek, because borg-bashing raids isn't star trek either, but a game can't rely on puzzles and mysteries only; those exist but aren't really popular anymore as boxed games, and would probably make poor MMOs. If you can translate such games in MMOs and make that popular then make your own gaming company asap, you're sitting on a god mine!
Space is rather forgiving, you can make a lot of mistakes and complete your task; ground isn't and you need to learn to use your skills and abilities at the right time, and you'll need to use all of your abilities. That's what people don't get. On ground, I see many people unable to do something else than zombie mouse clicking on the primary fire mode, while ground requires to mostly use your keyboard, at least for your 10 main powers (or "spells").
Ground IS entertaining, fun, and challenging, but you need to learn to use it. If you're not willing to you're perfectly entitled to, but please don't say it sucks, because it doesn't.
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
It's ridiculous how you think it's hard and that's why people don't like it. I'm going to let you in on a secret, people that are good at the ground combat also hate it. it's just a trash system. I've cleared all the content on elite, I've did the optionals on elite, I don't have trouble w/ the difficulty of ground combat, especially this silly TRIBBLE adventure zone nonsense. It's just plain terrible.
I find space gets more attention then ground over all.
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Ground content is easier than space.... waaay easier.. there is less "stuff" i.e. less game mechanic and less of everything basically in ground compared to space. Another words.. ground has less to it and takes less time to throw together than space content.
So to answer your question in one word, L-A-Z-I-N-E-S-S
Yeah, that's right.
As someone who runs elite ground STFs regularly and gets 5+ mins left on the optional clocks I can tell you I like ground (except IGE)
On the ground they can develop so much more for game play. Mine trap is part of that, what a great mission. CGE is well designed, I'm glad PUGs don't make it through. Unlike in a ship you can move how you want to on the ground, you are free to control your player.
Space is dull and limiting, pew pew pew, just keep shooting, no thought, no diversity. The vault shuttle mission attempts to put some ground style game play into it, the shuttles all turn fast so its not a big deal, but look what happens? If you pug it and don't do the objectives yourself its pretty much a guaranteed failure. People that stick to space are used to the mindless shooting grind, they like that, it requires no thought, no strategy, just keep shooting.
Completed Starbase, Embassy, Mine, Spire and No Win Scenario
Nothing to do anymore.
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I must disagree with you here.... ground pvp is far more of a grind imo than space is.. and also takes far less thought since you are only using about half as many abilities.
Yeah, that's right.
Then go play any other mmo and you will see that except DCUO all have the same mechanics .Just because you get killed in ground stfs doesnt mean the ground is awful horrible.All mmos use the same mechanic and controll and from all those millions of people playing them only the specie called "sto player" or "sto reviewer" (check IGN BS reviews) thought to complain about it.
SWTOR was released after STo and it has the same mechanic.How many poeple complanied?
If you played GTA 4 of course this will look differnt but after awhile you will want the same movement mechanic for gta 4.
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Easily answered. Because it's easier for Cryptic to do well and with polish(meaning add more lore to the game worth paying attention to and whatnot), over a space campaign IMHO.
Those patrols are basically the same thing over and over just in different skins or presentations. Load up the game today and see.
Shhh!!!!!
/10chars
Yeah, that's right.
The other posters do have a point about quality of content. Just what can you DO in space? Nomatter what, you're always going to be in a mostly empty black void. Fly here, scan this, fly there, shoot that. It's fun to blow stuff up, but hard to tell much of a story that way. Maybe if dialogue and investigation was handled by switching to an interior view of your captain on the bridge, but that would basically require two map transfers and break the whole flow of the mission.
I played all of them on Tribble, I'll grant you that, perhaps, but I still found them fun, some are unique though, they aren't all the same.
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We have a WINNER!!
Ok, I will confess I did not play them all. Just a few to get an idea of what else was in the new sector.
Before making comparisons to other MMO's, know that this is the one and only such game I have ever played. And while it's far different from my usual sims such as x3 which, as you may know, is a single player sandbox which entails the commanding of capitol ships the size of ESD and fleets numbering in the thousands, I do love the arcade-like change of pace which STO delivers relatively flawlessly.
My apologies in advance if I came across as trying to bash the game as that's not my intention. I've spent hundreds of dollars supporting STO and I don't see that changing, however, I cannot help but to feel that every aspect of STO's ground is downright...embarrassing.