test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

ELITE STFS GIVE 0 DILITHIUM season 7

17810121315

Comments

  • nikkyvixnikkyvix Member Posts: 241 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    f they released the entire season 7 all at one time, what would we do between now and season 8? They are surely saving stuff for us in the interim between now and season 8, don't you think?

    You'd be wise not to sell your hopes high on Cryptic's idea of coming attractions.

    Do you really get the impression that Cryptic will deliver at or above player expectations whenever they describe something? I do not, and I have been observing since open beta.
    Most recent examples:
    * The 2800 Feature Episode series: The might of the Dominion is attacking, you will need to band together with enemies to survive! (turned out to be a generic space battle, running around to prepare for war on Hathon, some diplomatic skulkery and jailbreaking, and one more isolated ship battle hardly of any notable scale)
    * Mobius Temporal Destroyer, promises to call exact duplicates of you from the past and future to fight alongside you (Actually, they have none of your stats or loadout--they can't, that'd be OP, but they still said it'd be 'you'--stay for ~13 seconds regardless of combat state, and the destruction Past Self by weapon or accident kills you as well)
    * Fleet Projects that allow you to bring a Chef and Bartender to your starbase! (actually they are just carbon copies of the NPCs already on your ship, despite costing an arm and a leg for the convenience they have nothing new or distinct)
    * Fleet Uniforms! (Which turns out to be an individual-purchase uniform that everyone has to buy and color individually, making it merely a dilithium-premium uniform and not a "fleet" uniform of any sort)
    * "Welcome Guests" Feature Project for starbases (The 'Morn' your base gets is a hologram, and the latinum traders/dancers, non-interactable... especially disappointing maybe for the dancers!)

    Cryptic's marketing and word-selection is exceptionally good at drumming up hype and giving our imaginations enough ideas of the awesome that is to come, and they are not obligated to deliver partially or entirely on our own ideas of what's expected. Whether the hype meets player expectations depends on your suspension of disbelief.

    To avoid being disappointed again, I choose to sell low and believe that Cryptic's idea of 'story content' is what we see on New Romulus, right now. Anything else, they haven't even written yet, or are saving for Season 8.

    Season 7 seems largely focused on goal-oriented busy systems like Season 6 was to at least set the stage for the next season.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    The Artist Formerly Known As Nikotaka ][ Join Date: Jan 2010
    "Can anyone remember when we used to be explorers...?"
  • macarthur1961macarthur1961 Member Posts: 107 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    They give BNP that the release notes say can be cashed in for Dilihtium.

    Does anyone know how much.


    Dont take me wrong, my fleet of 500 members has many STF only grinders.

    No dilithum will mean they will not play the STFs.

    If they dont play the STFs, they have said they will not play STO.




    I am an Internet Noob (Mar 13, 2012) but a vid game freak...one of those whom grinds ESTFs each day... Of course when first coming online, I looked up Star Trek and found this game... I am ESTF grinder, but I am open minded... I WILL give the new system a try for now... but it MAY be time to see what OTHER game are available online.
  • nikkyvixnikkyvix Member Posts: 241 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Seriously. They didn't lie. At least not technically. STF's still award Dilithium, at least indirectly. The problem that you all have is that you all want your Dilithium as soon as you can possibly get it. You won't be pleased unless you can do 4 daily missions a day each of which awards 1,440 Dilithium, as well as a couple dozen STF's a day, each of which awards near 1,000 Dilithium per run. Afterall that is what you are used to doing.

    And you know what, the stability of the game's economy be damned. So long as you get all the gear you want in order to be the strongest most powerful gamer possible right from the start, only then will you be happy.

    Truth of the matter is that the changes that have been instituted in the game in the past 24 hours have (assuming that the entire population of the game doesn't quit in the next 2 days) probably ensured that the economy of this game will be far more stable and will be able to sustain itself for far longer than it was likely to have been able to do prior to today. So I am personally happy with the changes. Despite the fact that we now need to grind Fleet Actions to get our Dilithium Fixes, we still have the ability to get the same exact amount of Dilithium in a single day (perhaps even more than we used to be capable of getting, afterall I just maxed out my Dilithium for a day on a Federation character in the first time EVER). So really take this for what its worth.

    And for criminies sake, stop complaining so much.

    Your argument is almost as flawed as it is petulant and misinformed. And presumptive.

    You are making assumptions that the 'arguing' and 'complaining' is because these people want their goodies now. You are falling into the same assumption of an entitlement trap that so many other people do: Those who, gleefully happy with their new content, suddenly just found out that large dissenting consumer discontent over the new content was going on and decided to be immediately enraged and go white-knighting to the content's defense.

    See what I did there? Assuming that I know exactly why you are spending these posts trying to counter every and any dissenting opinion?

    You have admitted that you like the new content. That is awesome, go for it. We are all different people. But. If you are going to pull an argument with people who (gods forbid) don't think as you do,why don't you leave the petty assumptions that they're only upset because they want stuff now, or because they think it's too hard, by the wayside and actually listen to what they are saying?

    Then you'll see they're not arguing that it's too hard, or it's too long, but that they were lied to by the developers of STO about what would be released (truth), misled on what was released (truth again, look up the tribble notes and compare them to what actually went live), and, as paying customers of this game, do NOT take well to being deceived in expectations and having their options on how to play limited (and they are being limited; anyone with a lick of sense can see that in reading the latest blog post on the website from Stahl himself about dilithium and the missions that will now deliver them)

    You like the content. Good. But don't be a d0uche just because others don't. Come up with a constructive means of arguing and MAYBE try to meet them halfway and understand why they're upset before you label them.

    ..And for the record there's no such thing as a 'technical truth'. You either be up front to your customers you want to shell money out to you or you don't.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    The Artist Formerly Known As Nikotaka ][ Join Date: Jan 2010
    "Can anyone remember when we used to be explorers...?"
  • daniela1055daniela1055 Member Posts: 113 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Seriously. They didn't lie. At least not technically.

    They did. Check the Tribble forums, there they stated that STF's will still give Dilithium directly AND indirectly via BNP turn ins.

    And for criminies sake, stop complaining so much.

    If a company behaves like this i complain and i stop supporting this company.
    Plain and simple.
  • vesterengvestereng Member Posts: 2,252 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Actually helixsunbringer, if you take the developers on their own word, zero of their in-come is from dilithium in fleet and reputation...
    Dstahl personally came out and said that it "made him laugh".

    I am sure you also heard about how they more than doubled their team and were having new people come in "even last week..".

    So gg on that theory
  • helixsunbringerhelixsunbringer Member Posts: 249 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    nikkyvix wrote: »
    ***Snip***

    Okay, answer me this. If STF's awarded nothing except Borg Neural Processors, Omega Marks, and Dilithium would you all be satisfied.

    In otherwords is your complaint solely because STF's don't award Dilithium, or is it also because they stopped providing any item drops other than the stuff necessary to get Reputation?

    Conversely, would you have been equally upset had the STF's maintained all the periphery drops, had the Omega Marks and Borg Neural Processors, but lacked Dilithium entirely, but conversely all the missions that now don't have Dilithium rewards (such as the B'tran Cluster mission) suddenly had those Dilithium rewards again?

    Basically what I am asking is this: Is it simply a matter of not being able to do what it is you enjoy doing in order to obtain the Dilithium. Or is there a more intrinsic "STF's don't drop stuff anymore and I can't make money off of them anymore" involved in all of this?

    EDIT: and in regard to the tribble notes. The Cryptic Employee's provide a test server so that you guys can test bugs that appear in things that they think they might want to provide as part of the game. They are under no obligation to follow through with anything that they say or do with regards to the Tribble Test servers. Anything said in regards to the Tribble Test Servers should be assumed to pertain ONLY to the Tribble Test Servers. That is my understanding of the status of the Test Servers.
  • nikkyvixnikkyvix Member Posts: 241 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    If a company behaves like this i complain and i stop supporting this company.
    Plain and simple.

    What I am most curious to see is the community's enduring reaction to this.

    Will it grumble and snarl and rage, and yet go right back to fulfilling its Star Trek fix?
    Will it speak with its collective wallets and eyeballs turned elsewheres?

    Expressing ourselves, venting and commiserating on forums is all well and good, but if those people who spout their outrage just dive right back in and follow Cryptic's designs, it's kind of like they haven't said a thing and are instead endorsing the things they rail against.

    I have been a yearly subber since launch because I have always supported Cryptic and showed it by renewing. But, this is honestly the first Seasonal push I have been disappointed with. As a friend said, there were some nice little perks in there, shadows of STO's true glory in exploration. Yet I can't really enjoy it because it's all a glazing over decisions and systems I do not agree with and the untruthful releases pushed that make a joke out of the concept of Tribble testing.

    I've never said that about Seasons 1 through 6, and when my sub is up in March I will keep it unrenewed unless Cryptic shows signs that it actually values me as a customer and will work on actual fun-oriented content, or, would rather have the high-turnaround empty carbs of F2P players satisfying a temporary curiosity about STO.

    I'll still peek in because I don't want my fleet and fleetmates to be left without direction, as many may still wish to play. But my desire to spend four (or more) hours a day in STO took a really big hit, today.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    The Artist Formerly Known As Nikotaka ][ Join Date: Jan 2010
    "Can anyone remember when we used to be explorers...?"
  • wildthyme467989wildthyme467989 Member Posts: 1,285 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    vaernmina wrote: »
    Yes, it's called cancelling your CC payment. The downside of this is that they will likely also cancel your account.

    No, the account will just be turned into a F2P account
  • stark2kstark2k Member Posts: 1,467 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Seriously. They didn't lie. At least not technically. STF's still award Dilithium, at least indirectly.

    When will you stop making excuses for them, a lie is a lie no matter how you look at it. Surely Sir you must be a Silver player or new to STO, if not, shame on you - I seen this game since Beta and had high hopes for the only MMO with the Star Trek ip on it - The changes are NOT for the good, but more of a hindrance.

    The problem that you all have is that you all want your Dilithium as soon as you can possibly get it. You won't be pleased unless you can do 4 daily missions a day each of which awards 1,440 Dilithium, as well as a couple dozen STF's a day, each of which awards near 1,000 Dilithium per run. Afterall that is what you are used to doing.

    "You all," is a very bold statement and one that surely does not describe the views of the entire population of this forum and the playerbase. In essence we're talking about proper reward for time well spent playing the game.

    Simply put: The reward system does not match time spent playing this game. We already got cheated from the emblems to Dilithium conversion, then cheated again from EDC, rare salvage parts, Very salvage parts, rare prototypes, & Very rare prototypes to Omega Marks etc...

    Then told we're still going to receive at least some Dilithium reward per STF, then when November 13th comes out, we get screwed again - It is double minded thinking. I don't mind a Grind, but make the Grind worth the effort and rewarding, thats the main issue.

    I am not Chinese in a Internet Cafe that needs to play this game almost 16hrs a day to get a decent pay out - I'm a married individual with a wife and children that would like to sit down a play and have fun - not look at some rep menu or starbase menu and dread how unrealisitic something is going to take me to fulfill its requirements.

    Prices on the exchange are going up, resources take way longer to obtain, and parts of the game are now made impotent.
    And you know what, the stability of the game's economy be damned. So long as you get all the gear you want in order to be the strongest most powerful gamer possible right from the start, only then will you be happy.

    Surely you're miss guided, ask yourself - What economy? It's been diluted with several currency based form. It seems like CRYPTIC is patching up on the fly with the only interest in mind is how much they can milk us to generate revenue.

    Step right up Sir - we are forcing you now to buy our doff packs
    Step right up Sir - Don't have time to Grind, here is the Zen store, by as much Zen needed and convert them to Dilithium, while you're at it, mind buying a starbase FISH TANK for 200K Dilithium?
    Truth of the matter is that the changes that have been instituted in the game in the past 24 hours have (assuming that the entire population of the game doesn't quit in the next 2 days) probably ensured that the economy of this game will be far more stable and will be able to sustain itself for far longer than it was likely to have been able to do prior to today.

    You don't know that for sure - CRYPTIC gives a rats @ss about the game's economy in regards to EC etc... The only economy they care about is the Dilithium exchange and how well it will fatten their pockets. Corral the masses into buying while cutting their supply or making it an entire days chore to obtain some - and this is suppose to be a game for the casual player?

    Where is the casual in that?
    So I am personally happy with the changes. Despite the fact that we now need to grind Fleet Actions to get our Dilithium Fixes, we still have the ability to get the same exact amount of Dilithium in a single day (perhaps even more than we used to be capable of getting, afterall I just maxed out my Dilithium for a day on a Federation character in the first time EVER). So really take this for what its worth.

    I am happy for you, that it takes you an entire day to cap - I have to remind myself that I have a life outside of STO and have to work 8hrs a day to support my family. Outside of that bit of truth, not many of us have an entire day. The changes may work for some, but not others - simply put there really is NO reason to do what they did with the STFs, afterall this is what it's all about.

    Some folks do NOT LIKE to doff - why force that on them
    Some folks do NOT LIKE to do Fleet Actions - Repetitive and boring for some
    Some folks do NOT LIKE to do STFs - but other do and want to be rewarded for doing them

    You get the pic
    And for criminies sake, stop complaining so much.

    A bit of a naive statement coming from someone complaining about the complainers. :rolleyes:

    Truth be told, don't confused everyone here and tossed them in the same bowl of salad - many folks are dissappointed with the changes, some like them, some hate them - but the truth is the game has evolved into a money-matic Insanity.

    Ask yourself this, what other major changes are on the horizons that DOES NOT involved a GRIND or Dilithium?

    Develop cute ships ala Vesta and Steamrunner - eye candy (Requires to be purchased)
    Develop NEW STFs, MAPS, or FLEET ACTION - Grind & Dilithium involved

    This Freight Train will continue full steam ahead - somebody has to pay for zen, somebody does - Will YOU support the economy by buying Zen with real cash?
    StarTrekIronMan.jpg
  • daniela1055daniela1055 Member Posts: 113 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    In otherwords is your complaint solely because STF's don't award Dilithium, or is it also because they stopped providing any item drops other than the stuff necessary to get Reputation?


    For me it is purely because they blatantly lied, nothing more, nothing less. I don't care much about the changes but i do care if a company promises one thing only to do the complete opposite thing quietly and excusing it then with a more then flimsy explanation for doing so.

    nikkyvix wrote:
    What I am most curious to see is the community's enduring reaction to this.


    My son and me will simply not invest any more money into this game, that's our reaction to this and this is the only language a company understands.

    To make a long story short:

    If you are unhappy with the behaviour of a company then stop giving them any money at all, this and only this will make the company rething their decisions!
  • nikkyvixnikkyvix Member Posts: 241 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Okay, answer me this. If STF's awarded nothing except Borg Neural Processors, Omega Marks, and Dilithium would you all be satisfied.

    In otherwords is your complaint solely because STF's don't award Dilithium, or is it also because they stopped providing any item drops other than the stuff necessary to get Reputation?

    Hmm. I cannot and do not speak for everyone else on the matter of desires, only that I can at least see why they're upset. We were told that we would still earn dilithium for STFs, and were led to believe this would continue:
    levi3 wrote: »
    Originally Posted by levi3
    Which new STF gives 480 dilth? I am still waiting to hear what they will pay.


    DShahl:


    Ok, just checked with the designers and here is what they've done for Season 7

    - Normal STFs now reward 240 Dilithium + Omega Marks
    - Elite STFs now reward 480 Dilithium + Omega Marks + Borg Commodity for MKXII Sets
    - Fleet Actions now reward 960 Dilithium (1st place Gold gets 2x this = 1920 Dilithium)

    All of this could change before Season 7 hits, but that is what the current plan is.

    The final line is still relevant, but in no way was it announced, during testing all the way to the end, that it would come about that the dilithium for STFs would be nuked. Why would they prefer STFs? Check back in the thread--many of these people prefer the STFs for their content and the compact teamwork offered. Because, unlike Fleet Actions, they are not competing with their friends (or hoping the dozens of other hacks are worse than they are) in order to get their dilithium, save for the case of the Optional lootbag. STFs, while distastefully unchanging, were ideal to the big, unwieldy, lengthy (as far as TWO HOURS for some pug ground FAs) ordeal that Fleet Actions are.


    Basically what I am asking is this: Is it simply a matter of not being able to do what it is you enjoy doing in order to obtain the Dilithium. Or is there a more intrinsic "STF's don't drop stuff anymore and I can't make money off of them anymore" involved in all of this?

    Many in my fleet weren't happy with the reduction in dilithium costs but we could stomach that with the addition of other items, because it did not mean we had to spend time grinding STFs for our personal rep, then grinding something else for dilithium to advance our fleet starbase. STO is not a job. People with busy lives are not made of time. Not everyone's happy to commit two, three, five hours a day just to be a contributing member of a fleet and/or feel they are getting somewhere. The removal of overlap forces players to either commit bonus time to chewing on different kinds of content just to meet requirements they formerly could get all in one (the construction of STF sets and the gaining of dilithium to aid their fleet), or, decide which they want more.

    tl;dr: STFs that still provided dilithium would have at least aided in many ways where advancement is sorely desired and would not force friends to compete against each other.

    EDIT: and in regard to the tribble notes. The Cryptic Employee's provide a test server so that you guys can test bugs that appear in things that they think they might want to provide as part of the game. They are under no obligation to follow through with anything that they say or do with regards to the Tribble Test servers. Anything said in regards to the Tribble Test Servers should be assumed to pertain ONLY to the Tribble Test Servers. That is my understanding of the status of the Test Servers.

    The Tribble servers began as a community involvement project spread off from their beta efforts to not only outsource their QA to us to help them in testing their material, but to also give us a sneak preview, to provide insight to what may be coming down to pipe (and to generate hype). Rewards were tied to tribble testing to encourage this, all with the reminder that helping Cryptic test their content would ensure it's as good as can be when it is released. The communal contract between Cryptic and Community has always been that we, the players, help shape the material. That our feedback matters. As flowery and idealistic as it sounds, you have none other to thank for this concept than Dan Stahl himself, who's often lauded the efforts of Tribble testers in the past. As the content owners they have the right to change it as they wish. Yet they have built a capital with their community over time in giving the community a share in evaluating content before it goes live. If the community is not seeing a reflection of what is to go live, then what is the purpose of testing at all?

    The alteration of release builds at the last moment with undocumented changes which turn out to adversely affect those who are in favor of specific content marks a departure from this developer-community understanding which was fostered by previous seasonal pushes.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    The Artist Formerly Known As Nikotaka ][ Join Date: Jan 2010
    "Can anyone remember when we used to be explorers...?"
  • darkenzedddarkenzedd Member Posts: 881
    edited November 2012
    Oh My!

    It had to be Gecko didn't it, it had his fail sauce dripping all over it.

    From the man that gave us such epic fails as promising the playerbase, that if you purchase the T5 Excelsior & Nebula, you would get the T3 versions for free.....
  • leviathan99#2867 leviathan99 Member Posts: 7,747 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    nikkyvix wrote: »
    The final line is still relevant, but in no way was it announced, during testing all the way to the end, that it would come about that the dilithium for STFs would be nuked. Why would they prefer STFs? Check back in the thread--many of these people prefer the STFs for their content and the compact teamwork offered.

    Those are costs, not benefits.
    Because, unlike Fleet Actions, they are not competing with their friends (or hoping the dozens of other hacks are worse than they are) in order to get their dilithium, save for the case of the Optional lootbag.

    That isn't how fleet actions work anymore. Anyone who participates gets the same 1440 dilithium. There is an added award whose color quality varies but this is based on participation thresholds, not competition.
  • nikkyvixnikkyvix Member Posts: 241 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    stark2k wrote: »
    I am not Chinese in a Internet Cafe that needs to play this game almost 16hrs a day to get a decent pay out - I'm a married individual with a wife and children that would like to sit down a play and have fun - not look at some rep menu or starbase menu and dread how unrealisitic something is going to take me to fulfill its requirements.

    Whenever someone brings out the old flag of 'You all only want it easier so you can get it quicker', I think of situations like this.

    We are not all made of countless hours in a day. Some of us have lives, Things To Do(TM). And increasingly so, this game's systems and the reduction of any kind of efficiency in our grinding is becoming an unpaid job with a checklist of events to hit and hours to clock in order to meet whatever goal it is we would like to meet.

    If we do not wish to play along spending 4 hours a day as has been quoted to try and get "the best mkX piece", the alternative is to stop trying for all those shinies with their inflated sense of importance and find some other goal in this game if possible, or find another game entirely.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    The Artist Formerly Known As Nikotaka ][ Join Date: Jan 2010
    "Can anyone remember when we used to be explorers...?"
  • nikkyvixnikkyvix Member Posts: 241 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Those are costs, not benefits.

    Afraid I don't follow (could be because I should be getting sleep).


    That isn't how fleet actions work anymore. Anyone who participates gets the same 1440 dilithium. There is an added award whose color quality varies but this is based on participation thresholds, not competition.

    That I did not know, thank you. I'll have to update my information there..I have sort of avoided the elder fleet actions for quite some time.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    The Artist Formerly Known As Nikotaka ][ Join Date: Jan 2010
    "Can anyone remember when we used to be explorers...?"
  • leviathan99#2867 leviathan99 Member Posts: 7,747 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    nikkyvix wrote: »
    Afraid I don't follow (could be because I should be getting sleep).





    That I did not know, thank you. I'll have to update my information there..I have sort of avoided the elder fleet actions for quite some time.

    Fleet Actions are worth a look. The enemies have new costumes. The environments seem to have been touched up. (I feel like I notice some dramatic visual improvements.) Whether you loved them or hated them before, they're here, they're populated, they're re-tuned, get used to them.

    As for costs, my point is that in general, focused teamwork is considered a taxing activity deserving of higher rewards.

    My issue here is with doubletalk and cutting testers out of the loop. I could live with the changes, personally, but I think they're daft because they cut testers out of the loop and built from a design model of how designers want players to play rather than how players want to play.

    And when Stahl points out that lack of dilithium in STFs is consistent with Romulan content not offering dilithium, I want to argue that STFs are harder and require more organization. If STFs had the option to be soloed and were the same difficulty as Romulan content, maybe there's a case.

    But unless STFs get nerfed WAY down (and, hey, maybe they should be?) then I think comparing them to Romulan content falls flat on the difficulty issue.
  • arcademasterarcademaster Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    That isn't how fleet actions work anymore. Anyone who participates gets the same 1440 dilithium. There is an added award whose color quality varies but this is based on participation thresholds, not competition.

    Is there a source for this? After finishing such a mission I get at least a certain place. Which would make it competitive. Especially if only the first three places get rewards and you are in a 12 or 20 man mission.
  • luxchristianluxchristian Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Is there a source for this? After finishing such a mission I get at least a certain place. Which would make it competitive. Especially if only the first three places get rewards and you are in a 12 or 20 man mission.

    Yep, where is the source? Until S7 only the person with the most damage got the first place. And first place is the best loot. Tested with my Tac/Escort and my Engie/Cruiser ;-)
  • helixsunbringerhelixsunbringer Member Posts: 249 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    stark2k wrote: »
    When will you stop making excuses for them, a lie is a lie no matter how you look at it. Surely Sir you must be a Silver player or new to STO, if not, shame on you - I seen this game since Beta and had high hopes for the only MMO with the Star Trek ip on it - The changes are NOT for the good, but more of a hindrance.

    And you complain about me making assumptions about you guys? Seriously, what does it matter if I pay for a subscription or not. I play this game. I spend money to buy Zen. I farm Dilithium. I play in Elite STF's. I am just as qualified to form an opinion as anyone else is. Just because some of you have subscriptions doesn't make you any more qualified than those of us without subscriptions. Believing such is the case is simply an elitist attitude. Such an attitude would not get you very far in any other MMORPG.
    "You all," is a very bold statement and one that surely does not describe the views of the entire population of this forum and the playerbase. In essence we're talking about proper reward for time well spent playing the game.

    Have you ever talked to someone who has lived in texas for several years? After a while the phrase "Y'all" or "You all" becomes second nature to the person and that individual starts using it for things that they probably shouldn't in proper debate. So I apologize there. Though to explain the context, I was using it to refer to all the people in this thread specifically who are complaining about the removal of Dilithium from STF's. Sorry for the confusion.
    Simply put: The reward system does not match time spent playing this game. We already got cheated from the emblems to Dilithium conversion, then cheated again from EDC, rare salvage parts, Very salvage parts, rare prototypes, & Very rare prototypes to Omega Marks etc...

    Then told we're still going to receive at least some Dilithium reward per STF, then when November 13th comes out, we get screwed again - It is double minded thinking. I don't mind a Grind, but make the Grind worth the effort and rewarding, thats the main issue.

    I am not Chinese in a Internet Cafe that needs to play this game almost 16hrs a day to get a decent pay out - I'm a married individual with a wife and children that would like to sit down a play and have fun - not look at some rep menu or starbase menu and dread how unrealisitic something is going to take me to fulfill its requirements.

    Prices on the exchange are going up, resources take way longer to obtain, and parts of the game are now made impotent.

    I disagree. When I left this game to play Final Fantasy XI two months ago, the prices on the exchange were so high as to be prohibitive for everyone except those people who purchased ZEN in order to buy Master Keys and convert them into Energy Credits. STF's were about the only way for people like me to get decent to good gear (not counting Mk XII gear as that took forever to get). And Fleet Starbases had just come out, my fleet didn't at that time have access to the Fleet Gear as of yet so I didn't even know what that stuff did as of yet much less have a means of getting it.

    Now however I have 2/3rds of my Fleet Space Set and am working on the third. I have a realistic hope of getting Mark XII M.A.C.O. or Omega gear. And I have a chance at Romulan Gear as well. Not to mention that as far as I can tell with the exception of a few items (such as Technician Duty Officers) the prices on the Exchange have actually gone down significantly in the past two months which has lowered the bar of entry for end game play considerably.

    How is this in any way a bad thing? If you ask me all these changes are wonderful for the game. If they had left Dilithium the way it was, then it would have been far more difficult for the average player to obtain a decent amount of Dilithium. While you may not enjoy spending 3.5 to 4 hours a day grinding Fleet Action Queue's in order to get Dilithium, there is nothing that is forcing you to do so. And in point of fact you can still do FIVE STF's and get 1,000 Dilithium, so technically I wasn't wrong. They didn't lie, STF's do still reward Dilithium. Just not in the way you want. Sorry that they don't do everything that they promised, but they are a company, and they answer to a bigger company. They are under no obligation to keep promises to a surprisingly small percentage of their consumer base.
    Surely you're miss guided, ask yourself - What economy? It's been diluted with several currency based form. It seems like CRYPTIC is patching up on the fly with the only interest in mind is how much we can milk them to generate revenue.

    Step right up Sir - we are forcing you now to buy our doff packs
    Step right up Sir - Don't have time to Grind, here is the Zen store, by as much Zen needed and convert them to Dilithium, while you're at it, mind buying a starbase FISH TANK for 200K Dilithium?

    Please keep in mind that the final arbiter in all things relating to the in game currency is Perfect World Entertainment, not Cryptic Studio's. Thus even if Cryptic were to promise us the complete absolution of the need for an in game currency in it's entirety so that they could give us all the end game gear 100% for free... Perfect World Entertainment would be 100% within its rights to veto that decision. Any and all decisions that are ultimately bad for Perfect World Entertainment will be vetoed relentlessly, even if they are something the customers asked for specifically.

    I am happy for you, that it takes you an entire day to cap - I have to remind myself that I have a life outside of STO and have to work 8hrs a day to supoort my family. Outside of that bit of truth, not many of us have an entire day. The changes may work for some, but not others - simply put there really is NO reason to do what they did with the STFs, afterall this is what is all about.

    Look, this isn't the only game that I play. Nor is it all I do on a daily basis. The fact that I was able to cap today was largely because I didn't cap yesterday and was able to do some of my daily missions twice in a row alongside 3 fleet action queues. All of which was done after the 2 hour update to Season 7. I still have other things I plan on doing before I go to sleep for the day. But that said, don't assume I don't have a life. You don't know me, nor do I care for someone who is as much of a standoffish person as you to get to know me.
    Some folks do NOT LIKE to doff - why force that on them
    Some folks do NOT LIKE to do Fleet Actions - Repetitive and boring for some
    Some folks do NOT LIKE to do STFs - but other do and want to be rewarded for doing them

    All I can say to this is that no one is forcing you to do the Fleet Actions. There are still a number of other ways to get Dilithium in this game aside from the Fleet Actions. Once the Foundry Missions are reactivated those will be one of them (though the length of the quickies has been increased from 5 minutes to 15 minutes /sadface), you still have the Explore Strange New Worlds mission, you still have Dilithium Mining, you still have the PvP Quests, you still have the Trellus Satellite Repair quest, you still have Asteroid Mining, and there are probably a bunch of other ways that I haven't even discovered/tried yet.

    TLDR version; there are still numerous ways to gain Dilithium in this game. The only thing you can't do is use STF's to gain Dilithium in the way you used to be able to do. That was obviously something that Perfect World Entertainment in combination with Gecko decided was too easily exploitable, and thus did away with it.
    For me it is purely because they blatantly lied, nothing more, nothing less. I don't care much about the changes but i do care if a company promises one thing only to do the complete opposite thing quietly and excusing it then with a more then flimsy explanation for doing so.

    It may not have been the choice of Cryptic Studio's. It could very easily have been taken out of their hands by their supervisor from Perfect World Entertainment. We don't actually know who had the final say in the decision in this instance, though my gut tells me it was a PWE decision not a Cryptic Decision. As a person who spent several months playing the namesake game of Perfect World Entertainment I have gained some insight into how that company operates.
    DShahl:


    Ok, just checked with the designers and here is what they've done for Season 7

    - Normal STFs now reward 240 Dilithium + Omega Marks
    - Elite STFs now reward 480 Dilithium + Omega Marks + Borg Commodity for MKXII Sets
    - Fleet Actions now reward 960 Dilithium (1st place Gold gets 2x this = 1920 Dilithium)

    All of this could change before Season 7 hits, but that is what the current plan is.

    I bolded the relevant part of Dstahl's statement. He didn't lie. He explicitly said that everything he said was subject to the possibility of change prior to Season 7 going live. And that was obviously true. Damnit people read the fine print.
  • leviathan99#2867 leviathan99 Member Posts: 7,747 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Yep, where is the source? Until S7 only the person with the most damage got the first place. And first place is the best loot. Tested with my Tac/Escort and my Engie/Cruiser ;-)

    In a world of Fleet gear and rep rewards, what is the value of any of that loot? Anyone who participates gets the same dilithium rewards, which is the real value.
  • nikkyvixnikkyvix Member Posts: 241 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    I bolded the relevant part of Dstahl's statement. He didn't lie. He explicitly said that everything he said was subject to the possibility of change prior to Season 7 going live. And that was obviously true. Damnit people read the fine print.

    Re-read the post please before you snark. You ignored a part.
    Second portion added as relevance.
    nikkyvix wrote: »
    The final line is still relevant, but in no way was it announced, during testing all the way to the end, that it would come about that the dilithium for STFs would be nuked.

    ...

    The alteration of release builds at the last moment with undocumented changes which turn out to adversely affect those who are in favor of specific content marks a departure from this developer-community understanding which was fostered by previous seasonal pushes.

    Methinks we ain't coming to any sort of agreement, though this is interesting to watch.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    The Artist Formerly Known As Nikotaka ][ Join Date: Jan 2010
    "Can anyone remember when we used to be explorers...?"
  • chat1900chat1900 Member Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    i have payed many of real money for some realy good things out of the zenstore or i want it out of the exchance, but i have never pay money to give dil in the fleet or for the weapons. if pw want me to buy dil for this things i dont play sto. this is to expensive for me sry and this is not f2p.......
  • thutmosis85thutmosis85 Member Posts: 2,358 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    nikkyvix wrote: »
    Whenever someone brings out the old flag of 'You all only want it easier so you can get it quicker', I think of situations like this.

    We are not all made of countless hours in a day. Some of us have lives, Things To Do(TM). And increasingly so, this game's systems and the reduction of any kind of efficiency in our grinding is becoming an unpaid job with a checklist of events to hit and hours to clock in order to meet whatever goal it is we would like to meet.

    If we do not wish to play along spending 4 hours a day as has been quoted to try and get "the best mkX piece", the alternative is to stop trying for all those shinies with their inflated sense of importance and find some other goal in this game if possible, or find another game entirely.

    The biggest problem here is ... grinding isn't even worth it ... all you'll get is some shiny new items with whom you can't play anything else but the already existing Grind Missions, which you needed to play bazillon times to get the Shiny's anyway ... nothing to look forward to but the next Season which will probably just introduce the next Grinding system (judging from Season 6&7) ...
    Patch Notes : Resolved an Issue, where people would accidently experience Fun.
  • arcademasterarcademaster Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    In a world of Fleet gear and rep rewards, what is the value of any of that loot? Anyone who participates gets the same dilithium rewards, which is the real value.

    Real purple MK XII weapons (real as in, not broken STF gear with a useless Borg modifier) are better than STF or Fleet weapons, and besides Kerrat, the Fleet Actions are now the only place to get those. So they are far from worthless. A drop with the right modifiers and energy type can be worth millions of EC.
  • helixsunbringerhelixsunbringer Member Posts: 249 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    nikkyvix wrote: »
    Re-read the post please before you snark. You ignored a part.
    Second portion added as relevance.

    For your viewing pleasure:
    nikkyvix wrote: »
    The final line is still relevant, but in no way was it announced, during testing all the way to the end, that it would come about that the dilithium for STFs would be nuked. Why would they prefer STFs? Check back in the thread--many of these people prefer the STFs for their content and the compact teamwork offered. Because, unlike Fleet Actions, they are not competing with their friends (or hoping the dozens of other hacks are worse than they are) in order to get their dilithium, save for the case of the Optional lootbag. STFs, while distastefully unchanging, were ideal to the big, unwieldy, lengthy (as far as TWO HOURS for some pug ground FAs) ordeal that Fleet Actions are.

    Now you are just stretching. It has already been said by someone in this thread that there is no longer just a single "TOP PRIZE" in Fleet Actions. Additionally I have been in 3 Fleet Actions tonight. In all 3 cases I did not make First Place. Rather I made 3rd Place or lower. In all three instances I got around 1,440 Dilithium. That is comparable with the Explore Strange New Worlds and Foundry Dailies in the quantity of Dilithium earned. So clearly you are not required to win the entire Fleet Action in order to get a Dilithium reward of any consequence.
    Yep, where is the source? Until S7 only the person with the most damage got the first place. And first place is the best loot. Tested with my Tac/Escort and my Engie/Cruiser ;-)

    Source is people who have actually played them and have seen the differences first hand...
  • daniela1055daniela1055 Member Posts: 113 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    It may not have been the choice of Cryptic Studio's. It could very easily have been taken out of their hands by their supervisor from Perfect World Entertainment. We don't actually know who had the final say in the decision in this instance, though my gut tells me it was a PWE decision not a Cryptic Decision. As a person who spent several months playing the namesake game of Perfect World Entertainment I have gained some insight into how that company operates.

    That doesn't matter in any way. I wrote 'the company', i haven't wrote 'Cryptic' or 'PWI'.

    If you are unhappy with the behaviour of a company then stop giving them any money at all, this and only this will make the company rething their decisions!
  • helixsunbringerhelixsunbringer Member Posts: 249 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    That doesn't matter in any way. I wrote 'the company', i haven't wrote 'Cryptic' or 'PWI'.

    First off, PWI is the acronym of a GAME. Perfect World International is the American and European version of a game produced by Wanmei Entertainment. Perfect World Entertainment is the Subsidiary Company that has the rights to distribute Perfect World International in North America, South America, and Europe. Wanmei Entertainment is the Parent Company that owns the trademark for the game Perfect World.

    Cryptic Studio's is a subsidiary company of both Wanmei and Perfect World Entertainment. However, the compnay which owns the rights to Star Trek Online, is still Cryptic Studio's. That said, ultimate veto power still goes to the executives that are in charge of the North American Offices of Perfect World Entertainment.

    And finally, online petitions are 100% useless. Asking the Forum Goers to stop giving Cryptic money is even more useless since the Forum goers represent only a tiny fraction of the actual population of the game. And because ultimately the people who play Star Trek Online make next to no difference in the grand scheme of things when played against the other games that are produced by Wanmei and Perfect World Entertainment. Those companies wouldn't even notice that some people have stopped playing Star Trek Online because of this. Trust me I have seen this kind of nerdrage in regards to PWE and Wanmei before. It never helps.
  • thisisoverlordthisisoverlord Member Posts: 949 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    nikkyvix wrote: »
    Whenever someone brings out the old flag of 'You all only want it easier so you can get it quicker', I think of situations like this.

    We are not all made of countless hours in a day. Some of us have lives, Things To Do(TM). And increasingly so, this game's systems and the reduction of any kind of efficiency in our grinding is becoming an unpaid job with a checklist of events to hit and hours to clock in order to meet whatever goal it is we would like to meet.

    If we do not wish to play along spending 4 hours a day as has been quoted to try and get "the best mkX piece", the alternative is to stop trying for all those shinies with their inflated sense of importance and find some other goal in this game if possible, or find another game entirely.
    Total and utter waste of time reading this.

    4 Hours x How many toons you had, he also stated that if anyone finds a way to shave off time and they deem it as an exploit that they will fix it.

    For everyone whose been arguing, this is what MMO's are they are wrong, I've played DDO for a long time that has grind in it but Turbine now how to do it well and keep it fresh. This isn't because it's an MMO, it we were measuring it by quality against other MMO's it'd still be poor.

    Helix is juts an apologist and until they do something to the game that irks him he'll sing the same tune just like the rest of us did I see a number of posters here who were defending Cryptic just a few days ago. Hell even on TTS which is almost entirely in defense of Cryptic before launch are all complaining.

    By the just so you know DStahl did explicitly say that Dilithium would be a reward at the end of the run they just didn't what they would give you. You're version would only hold water of they said they'd give you 1 Dilithium a an end reward then you can say he wasn't lying.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    #2311#2700#2316#2500
  • helixsunbringerhelixsunbringer Member Posts: 249 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    4 Hours x How many toons you had, he also stated that if anyone finds a way to shave off term and they deem it as an exploit that they will fix it.

    For everyone whose been arguing, this is what MMO's are they are wrong, I've played DDO for a long time that has grind in it but Turbine now how to do it well and keep it fresh. This isn't because it's an MMO, it we were measuring it by quality against other MMO's it'd still be poor.

    Helix is juts an apologist and until they do something to the game that irks him he'll sing the same tune just like the rest of us did I see a number of posters here who were defending Cryptic just a few days ago. Hell even on TTS which is almost entirely in defense of Cryptic before launch are all complaining.

    By the just so you know DStahl did explicitly say that Dilithium would be a reward at the end of the run they just didn't what they would give you. You're version would only hold water of they said they'd give you 1 Dilithium a an end reward then you can say he wasn't lying.

    You cannot realistically compare Dungeons and Dragons Online to any other MMORPG in terms of the amount of time necessary for grinding. For one thing that MMORPG is a virtual clone (or a very close reproduction) of Table Top Dungeons and Dragons 3.5, and as such grinding in that game is going to be very very different from the typical grinds from other games. The closest equivalents I can think of are those that have level and money grinds in a more traditional form (ala WOW, and FFXI). But then those two games don't really translate well into the Free to Play format anyways.

    Oh, and for the record, the stuff that irks me probably doesn't irk the rest of you. In my case it is the fact that ships require ZEN in order to purchase them. And not just a small amount of ZEN, but a significant amount of ZEN in a lot of cases. The reason this irks me is because unlike alot of you with your plush jobs who can go and spend all this money on the game like it's nothing. I actually struggle to make ends meet. So the idea of a free to play game where I actually have to spend real life money in order to get high end gear... that's what irks me. I don't have a job. I am on Social Security Disability and cannot work. I only have a limited income each month and very little actual spending money. So you can understand why it pisses me off to no end when people complain that they lost something that basically amounts to an entitlement issue. It is still just as easy as it used to be to get Dilithium, as well as the STF gear. You just have to spend time doing it. Time is something I have and am not afraid to utilize. It is annoying to me to see people so mad over this because it means they have to spend more time in game...

    Guess what, you can spend the same amount of time you usually spend in game. It will just take you longer to achieve your goals. Thats not all that bad in the long run. And if this happens for a large enough number of people, guess what? They might change it back!
  • thisisoverlordthisisoverlord Member Posts: 949 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    You cannot realistically compare Dungeons and Dragons Online to any other MMORPG in terms of the amount of time necessary for grinding. For one thing that MMORPG is a virtual clone (or a very close reproduction) of Table Top Dungeons and Dragons 3.5, and as such grinding in that game is going to be very very different from the typical grinds from other games. The closest equivalents I can think of are those that have level and money grinds in a more traditional form (ala WOW, and FFXI). But then those two games don't really translate well into the Free to Play format anyways.

    Oh, and for the record, the stuff that irks me probably doesn't irk the rest of you. In my case it is the fact that ships require ZEN in order to purchase them. And not just a small amount of ZEN, but a significant amount of ZEN in a lot of cases. The reason this irks me is because unlike alot of you with your plush jobs who can go and spend all this money on the game like it's nothing. I actually struggle to make ends meet. So the idea of a legitimately free to play game where I actually have to spend real life money in order to get high end gear... that's what irks me. I don't have a job. I am on Social Security Disability and cannot work. I only have a limited income each month and very little actual spending money. So you can understand why it pisses me off to no end when people complain that they lost something that basically amounts to an entitlement issue. It is still just as easy as it used to be to get Dilithium, as well as the STF gear. You just have to spend time doing it. Time is something I have and am not afraid to utilize. It is annoying to me to see people so mad over this because it means they have to spend more time in game...

    Guess what, you can spend the same amount of time you usually spend in game. It will just take you longer to achieve your goals. Thats not all that bad in the long run. And if this happens for a large enough number of people, guess what? They might change it back!

    I honestly doubt they'd change anything back, with regards to what irks you, it irks us people who work too :) You'll find we also do not think $50 for a pack like the Vesta is acceptable either.

    The reason why I say they won't change anything back is because it is often the case that things stick, just look a CoH. They also seem to geared into short-termism, that is to say they probably already have an exit strategy in place for the business and a winding down procedure planned out.

    All MMO's have a lifespan and sad to say I don't see this one outlasting something like DDO.

    It's also interesting to note that I was going to (based on my experiences here) think about buying into Neverwinter. Now that I've played this for long enough to get how things work with PWE and Cryptic I won't be touching Neverwinter, even if I do prefer Faerun to Eberron.:o
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    #2311#2700#2316#2500
This discussion has been closed.