I have a feeling, though, that most contributors to this thread did not get what I was trying to say...
Ah, they (we) got it. But we are past that already.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
Hi, my name is Roach and I'm addicted to P2W PvP poorly balanced to them skills of those whom do not try to adapt but complain that PvP is ruining everything, yada yada.......
Just curious, but for the kdfers worried about how the vesta will balance, how does the Kar'fi compare to it? It feels like a number of the 'broken' stuff is applicable to the Karfi as well. Cannons, boff layout, and pets. Dunno about the rest, though.
Just curious, but for the kdfers worried about how the vesta will balance, how does the Kar'fi compare to it? It feels like a number of the 'broken' stuff is applicable to the Karfi as well. Cannons, boff layout, and pets. Dunno about the rest, though.
QFT. Since the rise of siphons the overall level of Kar'fi pilot skill has decreased as people gravitate to the broken mechanic.
If you took away the pets it could still pin you and spike you. The only thing keeping it from ruling the galaxy is its inability to load dual A2B's. Honestly the pets keep people from using the ship to its potential.
Never ran DHC's on it outside of PvE though. It doesn't have the eng slots for Aux2ID or RCS like a KDF cruiser.
I'd buy a Flar'fi if they offered one but honestly it's a step above most other ships already so I'm not sure it needs a fleet version.
_______________ CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that? Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
Just curious, but for the kdfers worried about how the vesta will balance, how does the Kar'fi compare to it? It feels like a number of the 'broken' stuff is applicable to the Karfi as well. Cannons, boff layout, and pets. Dunno about the rest, though.
the karfi isn't really a sci ship, it is a full on carrier with 2 bays. its turn rate is 8, thats great for a carrier, and pretty good compared to fed cruisers. but it doesn't have SA, or subsystem targeting, and only an LT engineering station. it can energize very well with the varies pets it can use, and be extreamly deadly when used correctly. but it can be extreamly fragile, and has got to be the ugliest thing in game.
the vesta is going to be a sci ship with a hanger, a much better starting place. much more maneuverability, SA, and subsystem targeting. even if it just has 1 hanger, you only need 1 when you have runabouts to chain someone to death.
Then allow me to enlighten you, young one. PvP thrives on tactical and strategic choices, using ability choice, gear choice, Captain choice, ship choice, and the almighty teamwork combination of those choices to force situational imbalances in your ("your" and "you" are used in the context of a team of players) favor while attempting to turn over situations where you would be at a disadvantage. This all occurs in a mostly blind situation where you can't see with certainty anything other than your opponent's Captain and Ship types until after the initiate.
When you add ships like the Vesta (looks, at the moment) that are well rounded without clear significant weaknesses, you get a tool that is extremely powerful and one that mostly obosoletes other tools given that it has fewer weaknesses relative to its strengths, which directly translates to having the upper hand in more situations, and being wrong footed in fewer, before combat ever takes place.
In other words, why have Vista if you can have Windows 7?
Why have the ugly sister when the attractive one is in the next room?
Why have a Defiant if you can afford a Jemmy?
Why have a candlestick whrn you can have a torch?
Why listen to Justin Beiber when The Beatles are on Spotify?
Why have any other science ship with its own set of weaknessess when the day Season 7 comes out the Vesta appears in the CStore?
What was my point again...?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] @Aquitaine985 Lag Industries STO PvP Fleet - Executive
A Sad Panda of Industrial calibre. 2010: This is Cryptic PvP. Please hold the line, your call is very important to us...
In other words, why have Vista if you can have Windows 7?
Why have the ugly sister when the attractive one is in the next room?
Why have a Defiant if you can afford a Jemmy?
Why have a candlestick whrn you can have a torch?
Why listen to Justin Beiber when The Beatles are on Spotify?
Why have any other science ship with its own set of weaknessess when the day Season 7 comes out the Vesta appears in the CStore?
What was my point again...?
3. This problem is present in the bug to a point, though with the Fleet Defiant and Prometheus, it's got a couple of ships than can be considered to be in its league. Armitage, too, if we're being honest. Now compare the Jemmy to any of the Fleet KDF Raptors or Escorts. Let's not kid ourselves, either, damage is far and away the easiest thing to repeatedly mitigate in STO.
6. Straight to the heart of the problem. By all accounts so far, the Vesta doesn't have any clear weaknesses. Of course, it's (mathematically) possible Cryptic will surprise us and the Vesta won't be insanely powerful and will have some kind of trade off for its abilities.
[wild speculation] There won't be a Fleet version of the Vesta, but instead it will be super strong straight out of the C-Store like the Odyssey flagships with a stripped down version available from the T5 shipyard.
Your "Boohoo I don't want to read that things aren't as good as it could be so kill it with fire" attitude is shameful and disgusting, given that you have all the agency in the world to not read the forums or post in these threads.
It takes me back to the old Fed Carrier discussions where the Vesta was often brought up (the Ambassador discussions as well for that matter, though it was always the Ambassador folks showing up in the Fed Carrier threads)...
...so I have to admit somewhat of a bias, since I was pro Vesta. There was a lot of KDF hatred of the Feds getting a carrier. The Kitty Karrier was hopefully a joke at the time - ahem - anyway... and there was no Armitage even mentioned.
However, in all of those discussions - it was never made out that the Vesta was going to be the One Ship to Rule Them All. For the most part, even in the speculation threads about the Vesta after the announcement... it's not been made out to be "THAT" ship.
Outside of a few folks making the claim - the same folks that if you've read their other posts in general about ships...it would appear they're contradicting themselves - I'm still not sure where the "THAT" ship thing is really coming from...
With the "no weakness" thing that keeps being brought up - well, no duh - if the ship is the combination of every other ship out there that these people are making it out to be - that would be the case, no? But be a little realistic here, eh? They've picked out the best parts of several ships and lumped it together... of course if somebody does that, whatever ship they're talking about is going to look like "THAT" ship...
It takes me back to the old Fed Carrier discussions where the Vesta was often brought up (the Ambassador discussions as well for that matter, though it was always the Ambassador folks showing up in the Fed Carrier threads)...
...so I have to admit somewhat of a bias, since I was pro Vesta. There was a lot of KDF hatred of the Feds getting a carrier. The Kitty Karrier was hopefully a joke at the time - ahem - anyway... and there was no Armitage even mentioned.
However, in all of those discussions - it was never made out that the Vesta was going to be the One Ship to Rule Them All. For the most part, even in the speculation threads about the Vesta after the announcement... it's not been made out to be "THAT" ship.
Outside of a few folks making the claim - the same folks that if you've read their other posts in general about ships...it would appear they're contradicting themselves - I'm still not sure where the "THAT" ship thing is really coming from...
With the "no weakness" thing that keeps being brought up - well, no duh - if the ship is the combination of every other ship out there that these people are making it out to be - that would be the case, no? But be a little realistic here, eh? They've picked out the best parts of several ships and lumped it together... of course if somebody does that, whatever ship they're talking about is going to look like "THAT" ship...
there should be no single THAT ship, power creep is game cancer. the minute they went away from different but equal to flatly better, they ruined the game.
if wish i could have been there for their reaction to the regent release, it was nothing but complaining about how it was inferior to the fleet ships. the masses arent satisfied with anything less now, and the more they ratchet up the power creep the worse its going to get.
It takes me back to the old Fed Carrier discussions where the Vesta was often brought up (the Ambassador discussions as well for that matter, though it was always the Ambassador folks showing up in the Fed Carrier threads)...
...so I have to admit somewhat of a bias, since I was pro Vesta. There was a lot of KDF hatred of the Feds getting a carrier. The Kitty Karrier was hopefully a joke at the time - ahem - anyway... and there was no Armitage even mentioned.
However, in all of those discussions - it was never made out that the Vesta was going to be the One Ship to Rule Them All. For the most part, even in the speculation threads about the Vesta after the announcement... it's not been made out to be "THAT" ship.
Outside of a few folks making the claim - the same folks that if you've read their other posts in general about ships...it would appear they're contradicting themselves - I'm still not sure where the "THAT" ship thing is really coming from...
With the "no weakness" thing that keeps being brought up - well, no duh - if the ship is the combination of every other ship out there that these people are making it out to be - that would be the case, no? But be a little realistic here, eh? They've picked out the best parts of several ships and lumped it together... of course if somebody does that, whatever ship they're talking about is going to look like "THAT" ship...
I haven't even been around that long and I don't remember any claims about the Vesta being the Fed carrier at all. The only consistent claim (and one well-sourced by numerous devs/Stahl) was that the Vesta would be a science ship that can equip dual cannons. Science ship has a very well-established definition, as does the benefits implied in giving it full weapon capability. Now I'm not ruling out that what you're saying is true, but then if that were the case, why are people so surprised that the Vesta is getting a spambox?
It's a little ironic that you're calling our credibility into question when you're the one who hasn't once provided a source for anything you're claiming. On the other hand I can pull multiple quotes from dev Q&As and the boards in general to back up every last word I've said.
there should be no single THAT ship, power creep is game cancer. the minute they went away from different but equal to flatly better, they ruined the game.
if wish i could have been there for their reaction to the regent release, it was nothing but complaining about how it was inferior to the fleet ships. the masses arent satisfied with anything less now, and the more they ratchet up the power creep the worse its going to get.
Power creep may be at stage 2 now in STO. Imo.
I dont mind high power gaming if the system is balanced well enough.
I currently do not believe STO has this yet in PvE because its to s in required skill soft/hard and PvP is strictly unbalanced on many individual points.
I have a wish for NPC coding but wont put it here.
I can only see ideas to fix a few PvP issues but wont list here because they all already have been alot.
It's a little ironic that you're calling our credibility into question
It's not a case of calling credibility into question - it's a shout out to the credibility from other threads and the perceived overreaction that's taking place here with out any hard facts.
If there was not the credibility from other posts and threads - well - my tone would be very different...
As for the Vesta, it was player discussion - that I last participated in back in March. You can do a search for Archived Post... it's there. Actually, I can do a search for it - because folks quoted me - and the name shows up in the quotes even though it doesn't show up on the post, funny - eh?
CBS gave the green light for the Mark's ships back at the end of Jan/start of Feb - that's where all the discussion about the Vesta as a shuttlecarrier began...
STO doesn't have the increase in difficulty to match the increase in power coming from the ships... have to wonder if they'll retune PvE at some point.
If not, they're just going to make PvE more boring and PvP more... whatever expletive you wish to insert for how PvP is... will likely work.
It's not a case of calling credibility into question - it's a shout out to the credibility from other threads and the perceived overreaction that's taking place here with out any hard facts.
If there was not the credibility from other posts and threads - well - my tone would be very different...
As for the Vesta, it was player discussion - that I last participated in back in March. You can do a search for Archived Post... it's there. Actually, I can do a search for it - because folks quoted me - and the name shows up in the quotes even though it doesn't show up on the post, funny - eh?
CBS gave the green light for the Mark's ships back at the end of Jan/start of Feb - that's where all the discussion about the Vesta as a shuttlecarrier began...
I'd honestly rather overreact and be wrong than say nothing and greenlight them releasing this Frankenstein's monster.
It's not a case of calling credibility into question - it's a shout out to the credibility from other threads and the perceived overreaction that's taking place here with out any hard facts.
If there was not the credibility from other posts and threads - well - my tone would be very different...
As for the Vesta, it was player discussion - that I last participated in back in March. You can do a search for Archived Post... it's there. Actually, I can do a search for it - because folks quoted me - and the name shows up in the quotes even though it doesn't show up on the post, funny - eh?
CBS gave the green light for the Mark's ships back at the end of Jan/start of Feb - that's where all the discussion about the Vesta as a shuttlecarrier began...
there is a ton of hard facts, pay attention.
its a sci ship
it can mount DHC
it has at least 1 hanger
its movement and heath is going to be somewhere between a recon and a neb
if you don't know the implications of these facts, i can understand skepticism. but there is already enough damning evidence that this ship is going to be too good, be able to do to many mold breaking things at once to have even a shred of balance. the DHCs was one thing, barfing runabouts though absolutely kills any chance of this being a balanced ship
its movement and heath is going to be somewhere between a recon and a neb
if you don't know the implications of these facts, i can understand skepticism. but there is already enough damning evidence that this ship is going to be too good, be able to do to many mold breaking things at once to have even a shred of balance. the DHCs was one thing, barfing runabouts though absolutely kills any chance of this being a balanced ship
It's not the only Sci that can mount DHC nor the only Sci with hangars.
So the concern would be the turn rate. It's around the size of a Sovereign. 672m in length. The Neb is 442m and the RSV is 450m.
So it's the size of a ship with a TR of 7ish - but it's going to sport a TR of a ship over 200m shorter in the RSV?
Wouldn't it be more logical to say that it's going to be somewhere between the Negh'var and the Karfi? 7-9 rather than it being up to 13?
But you can slap RCS on it - like you do with a Negh'var. The Negh's sporting those Eng console slots that a Sci ship's not going to have... you can hit up the RCS if you want, at the loss of armor. Keep in mind, it's a Sci - so it's in the weak hull category already.
I really don't get the stuff with ADRs. Sure, I only play in PUGland - but I 99.9% run FvF - so I see my fair share of ADRs... and I kill them. It's not like when I drop out GW/TR/TBR/DPB Tric-Trans/Breen Clusters/TS Trans and spam the Hell out of the battlefield only to watch the ASDs dance about giggling at me as I die. I have more problems with Fed pet phaser proc spam than tractors... whether I'm running PH/APO or just killing whatever decided to hit me with a tractor. There are just so many ways to counter a tractor...
...I could see a concern if it was sporting a high TR - because they could subnuke and the tractors would hold you - but again, the Vesta's around the size of a Sov or a Negh.
What is the other science ship that can mount DHC and hangars on fed side ? Must have missed it...
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
Crapfi is a carrier with 2 hangars and no sensor analysis. So no science ship in my eyes.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
Well then, I take that back... I could have sworn it did. I had thought about getting one way back, but I couldn't justify the price for a single toon.
Definitely glad I didn't buy it then...meh.
Given that, I could see why the KDF would be upset if the ship has a TR that allows it to make use of DHCs.
Back in the discussions earlier in the year - much of it was modeled after making the Vesta akin to the Karfi on the Fed side...
So that would mean there are only 3 KDF vessels with Sensor Analysis... that should be fixed.
I still don't believe that the Vesta will have the TR to make use of DHCs without being a glass cannon though... we'll find out later today depending on what info's in the blog post about it.
im not sure how your supposed to avoid feeling biter, angry and disappointed when something you enjoy is, by choice directly or indirectly, slowly made worse as time goes by. not improved, made worse.
"Worse" is subject to how you look at it.
Different is what I would say. It's an MMO, the rules change with every patch. Every few weeks, it's a new game. What was good before is TRIBBLE now, and what was TRIBBLE before is good now.
And frankly, if the game didn't constantly change, I'd be bored of it long time ago.
Also, what is broken today always seems worse than what was broken last week. Remember broken CSV and FAW that would swwep the map clean in a few seconds? Original SNB that shut you down for "a minute"? Broken Queues that meant you were lucky to get a pop in 2 hours? Chroniton clouds that filled your screen completely?.... Some part of the game will always be more broken than the rest. When new items/ships are launched, they will always be stronger than the old ones. In a few weeks, they in turn will be weaker than the next big thing.
What is broken will be brought back in line, eventually, and in the meantime we try our best to work around it. This is how it is. It will not change. It's in the nature of a constantly evolving MMO. And from what I hear, STO is really not that bad compared to other MMOs...
That said; should we stop raging in the forums when something is broken? Heck no! We're even fortunate enough to have the ear of a dev! A dev that has some capacity to tweak the game and make it better! I've been with STO long enough to know what a privilege this really is! 2 years ago, you could cry a river in the pvp forum, and the only dev response you would get was a forum ban from an angry forum-dev. My best advice would be to treat Borticus with respect, and pray he doesn't tire too soon of our (my own included) endless whining!
EDIT: What we DO have reason for being bitter at, is the unfulfilled promises. The promises of new resources devoted to PvP. That's just stringing people along, and is not nice at all. In STO, PvP is a low priority. That's fact. Maybe someday it will change, and it would be awsome, but until the resources have actually been allocated to pvp, Cryptic should stop throwing out promises.
Comments
Ah, they (we) got it. But we are past that already.
hi, my name is wastee and i'm addicted to broken pvp :rolleyes:
...though, it's pvp. so i can enjoy from time to time, even when losing. only if just because of the challenge other players are to me.
Hi, my name is Roach and I'm addicted to P2W PvP poorly balanced to them skills of those whom do not try to adapt but complain that PvP is ruining everything, yada yada.......
now where is the Booze and cupcakes?
R.I.P
Even Cryptic aren't that stupid... Right?
9/10 times the fishie shippie is a a squish.
a couple of people pull it off tho.
QFT. Since the rise of siphons the overall level of Kar'fi pilot skill has decreased as people gravitate to the broken mechanic.
If you took away the pets it could still pin you and spike you. The only thing keeping it from ruling the galaxy is its inability to load dual A2B's. Honestly the pets keep people from using the ship to its potential.
Never ran DHC's on it outside of PvE though. It doesn't have the eng slots for Aux2ID or RCS like a KDF cruiser.
I'd buy a Flar'fi if they offered one but honestly it's a step above most other ships already so I'm not sure it needs a fleet version.
CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
the karfi isn't really a sci ship, it is a full on carrier with 2 bays. its turn rate is 8, thats great for a carrier, and pretty good compared to fed cruisers. but it doesn't have SA, or subsystem targeting, and only an LT engineering station. it can energize very well with the varies pets it can use, and be extreamly deadly when used correctly. but it can be extreamly fragile, and has got to be the ugliest thing in game.
the vesta is going to be a sci ship with a hanger, a much better starting place. much more maneuverability, SA, and subsystem targeting. even if it just has 1 hanger, you only need 1 when you have runabouts to chain someone to death.
In other words, why have Vista if you can have Windows 7?
Why have the ugly sister when the attractive one is in the next room?
Why have a Defiant if you can afford a Jemmy?
Why have a candlestick whrn you can have a torch?
Why listen to Justin Beiber when The Beatles are on Spotify?
Why have any other science ship with its own set of weaknessess when the day Season 7 comes out the Vesta appears in the CStore?
What was my point again...?
@Aquitaine985
Lag Industries STO PvP Fleet - Executive
A Sad Panda of Industrial calibre.
2010: This is Cryptic PvP. Please hold the line, your call is very important to us...
Answer: Get rid of it. Problem solved.
I'm guessing we got something nerfed that you loved, and didn't need at all. As long as you have a spacebar, you're good.
3. This problem is present in the bug to a point, though with the Fleet Defiant and Prometheus, it's got a couple of ships than can be considered to be in its league. Armitage, too, if we're being honest. Now compare the Jemmy to any of the Fleet KDF Raptors or Escorts. Let's not kid ourselves, either, damage is far and away the easiest thing to repeatedly mitigate in STO.
6. Straight to the heart of the problem. By all accounts so far, the Vesta doesn't have any clear weaknesses. Of course, it's (mathematically) possible Cryptic will surprise us and the Vesta won't be insanely powerful and will have some kind of trade off for its abilities.
[wild speculation] There won't be a Fleet version of the Vesta, but instead it will be super strong straight out of the C-Store like the Odyssey flagships with a stripped down version available from the T5 shipyard.
@CaptainLuke
Your "Boohoo I don't want to read that things aren't as good as it could be so kill it with fire" attitude is shameful and disgusting, given that you have all the agency in the world to not read the forums or post in these threads.
...so I have to admit somewhat of a bias, since I was pro Vesta. There was a lot of KDF hatred of the Feds getting a carrier. The Kitty Karrier was hopefully a joke at the time - ahem - anyway... and there was no Armitage even mentioned.
However, in all of those discussions - it was never made out that the Vesta was going to be the One Ship to Rule Them All. For the most part, even in the speculation threads about the Vesta after the announcement... it's not been made out to be "THAT" ship.
Outside of a few folks making the claim - the same folks that if you've read their other posts in general about ships...it would appear they're contradicting themselves - I'm still not sure where the "THAT" ship thing is really coming from...
With the "no weakness" thing that keeps being brought up - well, no duh - if the ship is the combination of every other ship out there that these people are making it out to be - that would be the case, no? But be a little realistic here, eh? They've picked out the best parts of several ships and lumped it together... of course if somebody does that, whatever ship they're talking about is going to look like "THAT" ship...
PVP is always new (most of the time). I even kill Klinks now (but sometimes I wonder if they are just dying to be nice to me).
there should be no single THAT ship, power creep is game cancer. the minute they went away from different but equal to flatly better, they ruined the game.
if wish i could have been there for their reaction to the regent release, it was nothing but complaining about how it was inferior to the fleet ships. the masses arent satisfied with anything less now, and the more they ratchet up the power creep the worse its going to get.
I haven't even been around that long and I don't remember any claims about the Vesta being the Fed carrier at all. The only consistent claim (and one well-sourced by numerous devs/Stahl) was that the Vesta would be a science ship that can equip dual cannons. Science ship has a very well-established definition, as does the benefits implied in giving it full weapon capability. Now I'm not ruling out that what you're saying is true, but then if that were the case, why are people so surprised that the Vesta is getting a spambox?
It's a little ironic that you're calling our credibility into question when you're the one who hasn't once provided a source for anything you're claiming. On the other hand I can pull multiple quotes from dev Q&As and the boards in general to back up every last word I've said.
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Power creep may be at stage 2 now in STO. Imo.
I dont mind high power gaming if the system is balanced well enough.
I currently do not believe STO has this yet in PvE because its to s in required skill soft/hard and PvP is strictly unbalanced on many individual points.
I have a wish for NPC coding but wont put it here.
I can only see ideas to fix a few PvP issues but wont list here because they all already have been alot.
R.I.P
It's not a case of calling credibility into question - it's a shout out to the credibility from other threads and the perceived overreaction that's taking place here with out any hard facts.
If there was not the credibility from other posts and threads - well - my tone would be very different...
As for the Vesta, it was player discussion - that I last participated in back in March. You can do a search for Archived Post... it's there. Actually, I can do a search for it - because folks quoted me - and the name shows up in the quotes even though it doesn't show up on the post, funny - eh?
CBS gave the green light for the Mark's ships back at the end of Jan/start of Feb - that's where all the discussion about the Vesta as a shuttlecarrier began...
If not, they're just going to make PvE more boring and PvP more... whatever expletive you wish to insert for how PvP is... will likely work.
I'd honestly rather overreact and be wrong than say nothing and greenlight them releasing this Frankenstein's monster.
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
there is a ton of hard facts, pay attention.
its a sci ship
it can mount DHC
it has at least 1 hanger
its movement and heath is going to be somewhere between a recon and a neb
if you don't know the implications of these facts, i can understand skepticism. but there is already enough damning evidence that this ship is going to be too good, be able to do to many mold breaking things at once to have even a shred of balance. the DHCs was one thing, barfing runabouts though absolutely kills any chance of this being a balanced ship
It's not the only Sci that can mount DHC nor the only Sci with hangars.
So the concern would be the turn rate. It's around the size of a Sovereign. 672m in length. The Neb is 442m and the RSV is 450m.
So it's the size of a ship with a TR of 7ish - but it's going to sport a TR of a ship over 200m shorter in the RSV?
Wouldn't it be more logical to say that it's going to be somewhere between the Negh'var and the Karfi? 7-9 rather than it being up to 13?
But you can slap RCS on it - like you do with a Negh'var. The Negh's sporting those Eng console slots that a Sci ship's not going to have... you can hit up the RCS if you want, at the loss of armor. Keep in mind, it's a Sci - so it's in the weak hull category already.
I really don't get the stuff with ADRs. Sure, I only play in PUGland - but I 99.9% run FvF - so I see my fair share of ADRs... and I kill them. It's not like when I drop out GW/TR/TBR/DPB Tric-Trans/Breen Clusters/TS Trans and spam the Hell out of the battlefield only to watch the ASDs dance about giggling at me as I die. I have more problems with Fed pet phaser proc spam than tractors... whether I'm running PH/APO or just killing whatever decided to hit me with a tractor. There are just so many ways to counter a tractor...
...I could see a concern if it was sporting a high TR - because they could subnuke and the tractors would hold you - but again, the Vesta's around the size of a Sov or a Negh.
So it's KDF tears...eh?
Definitely glad I didn't buy it then...meh.
Given that, I could see why the KDF would be upset if the ship has a TR that allows it to make use of DHCs.
Back in the discussions earlier in the year - much of it was modeled after making the Vesta akin to the Karfi on the Fed side...
So that would mean there are only 3 KDF vessels with Sensor Analysis... that should be fixed.
I still don't believe that the Vesta will have the TR to make use of DHCs without being a glass cannon though... we'll find out later today depending on what info's in the blog post about it.
"Worse" is subject to how you look at it.
Different is what I would say. It's an MMO, the rules change with every patch. Every few weeks, it's a new game. What was good before is TRIBBLE now, and what was TRIBBLE before is good now.
And frankly, if the game didn't constantly change, I'd be bored of it long time ago.
Also, what is broken today always seems worse than what was broken last week. Remember broken CSV and FAW that would swwep the map clean in a few seconds? Original SNB that shut you down for "a minute"? Broken Queues that meant you were lucky to get a pop in 2 hours? Chroniton clouds that filled your screen completely?.... Some part of the game will always be more broken than the rest. When new items/ships are launched, they will always be stronger than the old ones. In a few weeks, they in turn will be weaker than the next big thing.
What is broken will be brought back in line, eventually, and in the meantime we try our best to work around it. This is how it is. It will not change. It's in the nature of a constantly evolving MMO. And from what I hear, STO is really not that bad compared to other MMOs...
That said; should we stop raging in the forums when something is broken? Heck no! We're even fortunate enough to have the ear of a dev! A dev that has some capacity to tweak the game and make it better! I've been with STO long enough to know what a privilege this really is! 2 years ago, you could cry a river in the pvp forum, and the only dev response you would get was a forum ban from an angry forum-dev. My best advice would be to treat Borticus with respect, and pray he doesn't tire too soon of our (my own included) endless whining!
EDIT: What we DO have reason for being bitter at, is the unfulfilled promises. The promises of new resources devoted to PvP. That's just stringing people along, and is not nice at all. In STO, PvP is a low priority. That's fact. Maybe someday it will change, and it would be awsome, but until the resources have actually been allocated to pvp, Cryptic should stop throwing out promises.