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geoff484
Member Posts: 209 Arc User
I've been away since about March and April, and before that I hadn't played since last Octoberish. Every time I come back I find myself getting very frustrated (perhaps more than I should) with this game. I subbed to this game for so long with high hopes that it would get better, I thought there was tremendous potential even though there was a lot of nay sayers about the first few updates I can honestly say the last thing that was added to this game that I thought was great was the ground combat change - That's it.
I thought this game was beginning to look bright around that time, finally we were getting an update to ground combat, KDF content was beginning to seem like a good possibility and then you guys went to F2P...
I remember the days when I would look FORWARD to the upcoming Season, now I get nervous about what else is going to have a price tag (or a stupendous amount of grinding) attached to it. STFs with random drops. Fleet Star bases seemed like a decent idea but it turned out exactly like I expected - A worthless grind fest.
Every time I'm about to log back in for the first time in months I get excited because I love the game play, I love the missions, but then I actually log in and remember "OH yeah, there's nothing to do but grind for dilithium anymore". I personally thought crafting was finally made decent... But then you guys attached dilithium to it... As if getting the rare samples weren't enough...
The most frustrating part? Is before when you guys did something that I didn't agree with I could point it out and at least ponder a few solutions - Now it's just such a huge mess that I'm not even sure where to begin.
I used have this view of Cryptic as a rag tag team of underground developers who were passionate about what they did, and even though they had a skeleton crew they'd try to pump out some really cool stuff (ground combat, Featured Episodes, foundry, etc. etc. etc.) But now I just feel like it's ran by my local used car salesman. Everywhere I look in this game it evolves around either dilithium or lock boxes.
I'm sure it's not really the Devs fault but more PWE, but I've never felt so negative about this game. I just feel it's a huge mess and it's just getting worse.
I apologize for all the complaining and negativity but this is just how I feel, I feel like I've been slapped in the face after all the time and money I've invested before this went f2p.
I thought this game was beginning to look bright around that time, finally we were getting an update to ground combat, KDF content was beginning to seem like a good possibility and then you guys went to F2P...
I remember the days when I would look FORWARD to the upcoming Season, now I get nervous about what else is going to have a price tag (or a stupendous amount of grinding) attached to it. STFs with random drops. Fleet Star bases seemed like a decent idea but it turned out exactly like I expected - A worthless grind fest.
Every time I'm about to log back in for the first time in months I get excited because I love the game play, I love the missions, but then I actually log in and remember "OH yeah, there's nothing to do but grind for dilithium anymore". I personally thought crafting was finally made decent... But then you guys attached dilithium to it... As if getting the rare samples weren't enough...
The most frustrating part? Is before when you guys did something that I didn't agree with I could point it out and at least ponder a few solutions - Now it's just such a huge mess that I'm not even sure where to begin.
I used have this view of Cryptic as a rag tag team of underground developers who were passionate about what they did, and even though they had a skeleton crew they'd try to pump out some really cool stuff (ground combat, Featured Episodes, foundry, etc. etc. etc.) But now I just feel like it's ran by my local used car salesman. Everywhere I look in this game it evolves around either dilithium or lock boxes.
I'm sure it's not really the Devs fault but more PWE, but I've never felt so negative about this game. I just feel it's a huge mess and it's just getting worse.
I apologize for all the complaining and negativity but this is just how I feel, I feel like I've been slapped in the face after all the time and money I've invested before this went f2p.
Post edited by geoff484 on
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You guys add things that NOBODY asked for, that NOBODY wants - Why would you think a reward system like that would work well? Money? There's not dilithium involved to play these missions so it can't be that. Is it for the sole purpose of driving us to the point of insanity? Is it a marketing move in hopes that we'll go crazy from the repetitive play that we'll start forking over money for stupid things?
Ugh... Anyways, apologies again, I just had to vent.
STO is a sinking ship
I honestly think we should start petitioning CBS to get the licence recalled and hopefully given to someone who doesn't completely undermine the IP and doesn't hold the disdain for the playerbase that Cryptic have.
It's almost like they are trying to punish people for playing the game, absolute disaster.
I really hate to think you could write that with a straight face. Punish people? They're offering new systems to progress in; that's pretty much the fundamental idea of an MMORPG.
1) This game offers you 99.9% of EVERYTHING without asking you to put a single penny into it.
2) Compare the loot and gear system in this game with every other MMO out there, and you'll see that generally STO has been more than generous. I mean you can get end-game competitive gear in next to no time in STO.
I mean really, new characters are going to have to engage with an end-game reputation track in order to buy certain gear and that's the some red line for you? How long does it take to get the BEST gear in WoW? In SW:tOR? I bet whatever that figure is, STO's equivalent is miniscule. And that's factoring in the Omega/Romulan reputation systems.
You people need a sense of perspective. If you don't like playing the game for its own sake, perhaps it's time to play something else?
And this part of the game isn't going to change. STO is a game where you fight in dungeons; loots and gear grind are here to keep you playing those till the next patch with new missions. It's very similar to RPG games except that it's not designed to be played for 50h or so like solo games. So basically you have to play again and again the X amount of gameplay the game has to offer; that's the core of STO's design.
If you don't like that I would advise you to:
- be more casual
- play solo games, especially if you don't like in-game shops everywhere (something I completely understand and a feeling I share to some extent)
- play PvP based games, especially RTS ones. It's not repetitive at all since every match is completely different.
Now if you still want to play the game you can show you don't approve of STO's evolution by not contributing to the game revenue and be a completely F2P player. This includes not buying Zen and not trading dilithium for zen, but don't expect the game to be something it's not.
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
play
don't play
If you don't enjoy the game, then you need to not play it for your own sake. It's a game and games are meant for fun. Although grinding is a PITA it is a part of the MMO experince and it won't go away. Every game has it in one form or another and it's never .... ever ... designed to be fun - unless you make it fun for yourself, the game should not do this for you.
If you really like spaceship combat ... EVE Online is a great alternative. If you prefer ground combat, then you have a lot ... A LOT of options. But if you really like the Star Trek universe to play in, then you need to find another way to deal with the situation.
Good luck!
....A lot of us like the universe. And think this game has destroyed it in more ways than one. For the record. This Trekkie is leaning heavily towards 'dont play' Space combat is fun but honestly someone's going to get it right sooner or later and then this game isnt gonna be worth ****. Eve Online isnt space combat for the record. That's nowhere near what people want.
CBS needs to pull the plug on this game the more i see dev responses and the more i see the contempt...
First of all, this needs to be in the feedback forum.
Secondly can I suggest that instead of just raging against the team, you propose alternatives, ideas, feedback and constructive criticism.
It's worth remembering that it's a F2P game, that's not likely to change, so it's perhaps worth considering thoughts of 'I don't like monetizing of A, why not monetize B?'
Just some friendly feedback.
I'm sorry but that's been done. Its falling on deaf ears clearly. There hasnt been any news of changes on tribble and no one's offered a response. Bran's made some damage control statements but we clearly see a train wreck up ahead. And as someone who has money to invest i dont feel like putting it in this game is a good investment when the Dev's aren't willing to take time to respond to a NUMBER of concerns.
1. These changes All of the ones being talked about were STEALTH originally, unpublished. I have seen this in EVE online Rift Anarchy Online and a host of others. You do not make changes like this unless your intent is to attempt to sneak one past the playerbase. It almost never works but the dev's try anyway.
2. Diltihium sinks are being added and new sources aren't being added. Plus you have an 8k per day cap. Nine if you pay. If you max it out thats 56k per week. Based on the numbers being posted and what it'll take to get these items. That's at least two weeks of CONSTANT playing. Closer to a month for most more casual players.
3. The gear change to STF sets really hurts players simply because they're taking advantage of the best gear setup available. And at the time (and as of now as far as i know) The Aegis Jem and Breen sets were NOT being looked at for revamps.
4. Then there's the Twitter where the Dev apparently insults the playerbase... I dont know enough about this to say one thing or another. But if this is actually true and an STO dev did that? It wont be the first time. It wont be the last. No gaming company has the balls to fire a dev over such a thing unfortunately. But it does make player's decisions a HELL of a lot easier on if they want to play this game or not.
5. A lot of us are Trekkies. We know what we wanted in this game, we're not getting it. We hang on hoping someone will get a clue but for me? In this instance. I'm at a make it or break it point. And it feels like its going to turn into SWG NGE all over again. I wont be around for that disaster.
As for 'It's worth remembering that it's a F2P game, that's not likely to change, so it's perhaps worth considering thoughts of 'I don't like monetizing of A, why not monetize B?'
They've chosen to Monetize. EVERYTHING it looks like. And that's the worst part of all.
If anyone doesn't like the monetization then don't be a part of that process. It's that simple.
The rest is seriously, at the very least, a gripe.
As for deaf ears: this board is so full of posts that complain more than help ... how could any one person find the chirp of a good idea when surrounded by the yelling of vitriol. When a Mod comes in and says, essentially, "help not hurt" ... why not try that?
That's impossible, Because it is linked directly to fleet equipment and gear. Which as of these changes will probably be End-all Be-all in terms of what a player can use.
When we say NO this loudly and they still go forward. What the hell is the point of suggesting something different. We all know what the core of this issue is $$$ They're effectively making dilithium the lifeblood of the game without making it easier to get WITHOUT PAYING MONEY!
You need dilthium for the following as of right now.
Without a revamp of the Jem'Hadar, Aegis and Breen sets a player will have ZERO choice if they want to be competitive in ANY end game content or PVP content for that matter. This means they will not be able to spend it on other NEEDED things. Fleet improvements or Z store items. To get those items they will have to spend cash. And not a small amount of it at this point. A fleet ship costs 20 bucks US. The Oddy package is fifty US.
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Perfect World Entertainment Community Rules and Policies . ~Tobar26th
Right now the problem is Dilithium is needed for far too much. It's being added to Doff's Its the lifeblood of starbases and its going to be added into the personal reputation system. It is required if you want any half reliable source of zen without paying for it. Not being employed as of this moment this is a pretty big deal for me. I dont want to feel like i am going to be forced to buy zen for the pure purpose of getting dilithium. Which based off what's in play right now is EXACTLY the feeling a lot of us are getting.
I would like to see a reset become available to any player every six months or so. Maybe even once a year.
I feel like the 10 million cap for energy credits forces a player to use Zen/Dilith he'd rather put towards a ship so he has the ability to get various high cost items off the exchange. This isnt good. I'd rather see 100 mil be the basic cap maybe fifty. Give a free player some room to negotiate or play the exchange himself. Add in an escrow account simular to how DCUO handles anyone going over that a player can pay to extract money from.
I'd love to see that in combat to be honest, but the current thinking says otherwise. MK 12 gear is what everyone wants. And right now these sets do not go to MK 12. Without set gear the only viable option is fleet. Which leads to this
In this case i specifically mean fleet weapons which are quite frankly from a multipurpose aspect the best weapons you can get your hands on depending on your spec/combat style. Fleet shields hold their own against Maco and i havent seen elite of the other mods to gauge how good deflectors and engines would be.
This is where you misunderstand me. Right now the dilithium sinks are massive and the sources are poor. Massive sinks ARENT always a bad thing. But when you force a player to choose between helping his fleet, helping himself, and getting a new ship all at the same time? In a process that can take close to a year to setttle itself out? That isnt a good thing. A player should not be forced to choose between personal advancement and fleet advancement. Only a fully fitted fleet can avoid that choice of which there are NONE and probably wont be for awhile. They need to find a way around this. Or people are just going to give up because it will become a JOB to play this game.
Good news is, this horrible chance game is going away in Season 7.
Bad news is, that chance system was replaced with the reputation system, where you must grind your way to UNLOCK permission to purchase these items. AND you need to use dilithium...
I will say though, that a handful of elite STF runs with an absolute certainty of obtaining MkXII gear is more welcoming than the horrible chance system we've had to deal with, and the main reason I stopped playing elites.
Dilithium is definitely at a premium, I will admit I feel it less, I have 9 toons myself, in a mid sized fleet, I just don't get hit as bad as solo players and smaller fleets, but I'm not unsympathetic to it at all. I often find myself stuck between using my dilithium to buy Zen (whilst employed, I don't have much/any disposable income), and using it to donate to Starbase projects that I can see stalling, and then there's that shiny Fleet Rifle that I fancy.
I agree, kinda, Cryptic have a very odd stance with this, in the past, and in fact in City of Heroes (formerly a Cryptic game) you could earn them in game through grinding, or big dungeon style raids. Whilst this may not work in a F2P setting I'd say players should get one with each 'Season' update, as changes are often gamebreaking.
Sorry, but the cap increase is a relatively cheap Dil --> Zen --> purchase which I can't help but feel isn't unreasonable. Something like 500 Zen I believe? Spring a few bucks on that one
Watch out for me sometime ;-) It's an entertaining build, done for fun to start but works nicely overall. People aim for MK XII as it's the biggest number, but it's not always best with a well thought out build.
I'll confess Deflectors and Engines lose me, every time, I go for set batches - it's just easier IMO. That said I do still hold that Fleet Space weapons are basically 'meh' they're nice, but they're certainly not the best. The [DMG] mods really let them down. The shields might be alright, but as an STFer I need the MACO or Omega sets
The ground weapons, armor and shields are pretty awesome - that I will conceed. No, I don't feel I misunderstand you, I may have made my point poorly though - my point is simply that Cryptic have a certain pace that they desire you to go through things at, it's a necessity of development time, financial income, and overall game economy. This said I think I'd like to see loads more ways to earn Dilithium, and then maybe ways to increase the refinement could come from there. I'd welcome a Dilithium Refinery holding for fleet starbases, where players can deposit unrefined dilithium into, and the fleet holding would automatically refine a certain amount per day which would only be available for fleet leaders to allocate to projects, that way the refinery cap would only be an issue for Zen conversion and personal spending, and players could pour unrefined dilithium into the starbase at their hearts content. Put this with new sources of dilithium and it might just work.
I'm not going to get upset about it anymore (not if the police is watching
I can only speak for myself, but i think this game had so much potential in the beginning. But the developers went into a whole wrong direction with it. It didn't begin with FTP, STOs developers took a complete wrong approach from the very beginning. FTP and PWE just accelerated and amplified that bad trend.
There was vitrually NOTHING that would have interest me since season 2 and the introduction of the Diplomacy system. Since then every season was just a huge dissappointment. Nothing they introduced was either a improvement or did the game make more Star Trek.
The only thing in the last 1,5 years i liked was the release of the Regent class, but even that wasn't a winner, since i don't like the sovereign design. The second thing i liked was the DOFF system, but as always the developers exaggerated it way too much.
I and others have made hundreds of suggestions but nothing was realized even remotely.
I'm just going to wait until season 7 goes live an i'll take a close look at it. If i don't like what i see, i think i will turn my back on it for a year or so.
Even if STO is the only ongoing Star Trek thing, my patience to wait for this game to become at least a bit more fun has limits. For me, it is a series of one dissappointment to the next one.
To keep playing it would be almost masochistic.
I think i'll start playing the X Series, i find it unbelievable boring, but at least it won't constantly try to get my money.
I hope my english is understandable, since most of the time i find it difficult to find the right words in my native language.
I am okay with a certain level of monetization to fuel this kind of MMO f2P model, but with these changes, I think it is going too far.
Starbase stuff has been fun enough i suppose, and came along with some decent rewards, even though it was time and resource-intensive. Adding more grinding on top of that, including adding the Dilithium costs on Doffs ('general recruitment' and the huge increase on 'reassign underperforming') is just too much.
I am now going from an 'occasionally pay some money' player to a 'not paying any money at all' player. They're just getting too greedy.
Truer words were never spoken! The above, however, has been said many times already. Strangely enough, though, I don't mind seeing it voiced again. Dunno why... Um, maybe precisely because it's being said so often and then completely ignored by PWE? Yeah, that's probably it.
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous posts, or to take arms against a sea of protests, and by ignoring end them!
Or C, monetize less, instead of ever more. In a nutshell, this is what it all boils down too:
Don't double-dip. If you make people grind, don't have them pay dilithium too. It's like going to a restaurant: either you simply pay for your food, or they make you do the dishes. But not both.
The rest are just derivatives of the above:
- Don't make people pay fleet ship modules AND fleet credits to get a fleet ship.
- Remove dilithium from the upcoming new STF rewards altogether. Pugging thru sometimes hundreds of STFs is bad enough as it is. To paraphrase the O.J. Simpson lawyer: "If people did the grind, you have to be kind."
- Stop the lockbox insanity, where you expect to get ca. $250 for a fully fitted temporal ship, instead of the usual $25 C-Store prices.
- Put a stop to the ever increasing starbase costs. Fueling a starbase near/at Tier 4, and above, is outrageously expensive already.
- Remove dilithium from the Personal Projects to advance your way through the reputation system. We never had to pay extra dilithium to level up to VA either.
I paid over $300 this month, just to get my temporal ships fitted. You'd think that's a good thing, right? Wrong! Because I, and no doubt many others with me, are getting fed up. Season 7, in its entirety, is looking to become "The Search For More Money." There's a sucker born every minute, right? Wrong again! Because you're risking a sudden collapse of the game. See, people don't just say: "Well, from here on in I will just pay the $300 a month." No, rather they simply quit altogether when they feel they've been exploited too much. You can already see signs of that in this thread.
And for the record, nobody is against PWE monetizing the game a bit to pay the bills, and turn a decent profit too. But when monetizing becomes the game...
Just some friendly feedback.
I am not against cryptic making money. But it is more how they do it. You get constantly remindend to spend money, if it's lockboxes or C/Z Store or if it's the need to spend another currency in game. Those things feel just like work.
There is not sense of wonder, no "let's go out there and explore space".
Some have brought up the term "labor Camp", while i think its a bit exaggerated, the direction of it is true.
Instead of coming up with even more stuff to grind, and "improve" your character/crew/ship, they should have finally come up with something we can do with it.
Let us go explore some unknown regions, let them generate on the run. So everyone has another experience when doing a exploration run. I mean the current exploration system is way too limited. New Civilations should be generated, and we should meet them at a later point to interact with them even more.
BTW: "interaction" doesn't mean killing them!!!
For me STO is too much an usual/generaic MMO, it (maybe) still has the potential to become much more, but to be honest i don't see that with the people in charge.
(sorry to say that.)
I think there is a big missunderstanding, the devs seem to think that giving us something to grind IS the fun of a game, while we are waiting to finally get something else. Something that doesn't feel like work.
I can only speak for myself, but grinding (doing the same mission over and over) and spending huge amounts of resources is not fun. It is just annyoing and boring.
I know they can't do 2-3 missions every week, that's not the point. But they should try to make missions more entertaining. Why don't they implement something like a random generator for some missions, so evertime we play them something unexpected can happen. It doesn't have to be something big, just some small variations would be enough.
Be creative!
I don't know if this belongs here but i really refuse to accept cryptics ship system. I don't want to start this topic here i have written my opinion a hundred times in other threads. LINK, LINK.
Heck we are supposed to be Starfleet Captains, have they visited EDS lately, for instance?
If STO wouldn't have "Star Trek" in its name and some Star Trek looking ships in space, i never would have thought that is is a Trek game.
For everything else i have the same opinion as meimeitoo:
Some additions from me:
I think Cryptic should reconsider judging loyality by the amount of spend money. The Chimera (and its KDF counterpart) and other things should be availlable depending on the time a account exist or maybe become unlocked with a certain amount of accolade points IMHO. But selling a ship (which some have been waiting for over two years) for 200$ is just shameless barefaced.
I can just repeat myself, STO is nowhere fun, it feels just like a money making machine. Everything results in accumulating more Dilithium, Lobi, ZEN, EC or whatever.
(I stopped at the introduction of Lobi.)
This is NOT what a Star Trek game should be about!
I hope my english is understandable, since most of the time i find it difficult to find the right words in my native language.
Best I can tell, this new drop system intends to KEEP US PLAYING the SAME MISSIONS over and over and over again to get the epic set that not everyone will get, (regardless of how many times these missions are run), therefore complacency is avoided. Some will never get the carrot at the end of the stick, but hopefully they will keep trying regardless.
Developmentaly speaking, they are getting the biggest bang for their develpment time.
A smart idea in principle, but unfortunately not a very fun, or rewarding experience for the average player, in my opinion.
Fleet starbases are a huge grind, most offen to equip your starbases with silly things like piles of tribbles, a few security personel, tables and chairs, ect. Things that take a short amount of time to develop, but will keep large groups of players grinding/busy/playing.
But when all is said and done, was it an entertaining experience? Did the "reward/goal" reflect the epicness the cost in player's time it required to obtain them?
Even the lockboxes, truth be told, this fun new "content", is not garanteed regardless of participation. But thankfully, the lobi store allows you to "work" towards another ship if you are unlucky. But how much money do you have to spend ? LOTS
The problem I see is this: The casual player, with a job with long hours, family responsibilities and on a limitted budget are going to missout on an ever growing list of new awsomeness.
After working a twelve hour day to pay the bills, coming home and spending a few precious hours with my family, I'm wiped. And lately, been avoiding logging on at all.
I just don't see the daily grind as relaxing, or entertaining anymore.
The stick's gotten to long, obtaining the carrot's requiring too much chance, too much grind, too much dilithium= aka REAL MONEY, and too much of whatever NEW currency's been introduced to the equation.
Now the problem is this, if you take yourself out of this grind, refusing to participate in this merry go round, what is there left to do? Endgame content? Story driven missions? PVP?
A new Romulan faction.......
Thank GOD for those Foundry authors. That's all I got to say.
I disagree, I can't see why not if they were to ammend the EULA of the Foundry (if it doesn't already) to give ownership of all missions created to Cryptic/PWE, then have an intern or some such reviewing and porting missions over into the main game similar how patrols are at the minute.
[/QUOTE]
I've said it before, I'll say it again - City of Heroes since F2P had an epic rewards system. You got something like 3 points for each month subscribed, and another for every Xpoints bought in their store. Was it better to subscribe? Yes. Was spending a metric ton of money an option too? Yes. And you could spend your reward tokens much like a typical RPG skill tree, picking a path, choosing however many at each level...E.P.I.C.
I agree; the current scheme feels excessive and I like buying ships from the C-Store. People did the grind to get those fleet credits; they should be able to use them without grinding or paying anything else. Or at least paying a minimal price.
From what I'm reading, simply doing the STF's should reward enough Dilithium to finance or mostly finance STF gear. But with every other Dilithium sink in the game, I'd be willing to bet this comes in as underperforming.
I understand why lockboxes work for PWE, but I agree that unlocking boxes is still a pretty poor bet. I don't care for the Deflector/Shield boxes and I'm actually getting tired of getting DO packs which I could simply buy direct if I really want them.
Lockboxes shouldn't contain anything that you can just buy outright with Zen, and there should be more stuff we can buy outright with just Zen. If they took out the dull stuff and readjusted the odds accordingly it would be more fair.
Our small fleet is already stalling out and we're just getting to where we'll have a Tier 2 Starbase with Tier 2 facilities. Tier 3 is just wishful thinking on our part, and probably several months of grind.
Agreed. Unless the missions we run to obtain reputation marks also award Dilithium, this is too much. Even then, refinement caps will hurt if we're trying to advance this and fleet stuff at the same time.
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