To keep my weapon power overcapped at all times, I use Aux2battery (love those technicians!) and EP2W at the same time. Nadion inversion is also good. As is agent Dulmur! Directed energy modulation just became the new Nadion Inversion.
For a while with this combination, my weapon power can stay above 125 with 6 arrays firing. Aux2Batt ensures I can pop off this combo frequently.
Cool idea! Gonna try out an 8x spiral disruptor build with it today, soon as server is up again. Thx!
I must concur with what is being discussed here. I am fairly new to the game, and as an Engineer I followed the crusier line as I thought thats what I was supposed to do. When I hit 50 I splurged and bought myself an Escort off the C-store. I fitted it with a bunch of cannons and the consoles I thought would benefit those cannons and off I went to experiment. I was simply stunned at the difference. It should have been flimsy. It should have been weak and unable to sustain any damage. But here I was plowing through groups like I had a 10 level advantage and racing out the other side of the group with barely a scratch to show for it. Even as an engineer in one of these vessels it seems unfairly advantaged.
When it came time to roll and ALT I rolled a sci captain and have stuck to sci ships. I know they suck. I know I am unfairly nerfed. But I just can't bring myself to allow the dev's to force me to play the class they want me to play in the ship they want me to fly. Something about that rubs me the wrong way. I like my sci ship in the missions I am playing. It seems to work okay. I do notice its taking me much longer to finish the missions that my engi did. But the PVE was simply a joke. All I did was fly around and explode doing next to no damage to anything or anyone but myself. I wont even bother trying PVP with this character. Something must be done to address the imbalance in this game.
I must concur with what is being discussed here. I am fairly new to the game, and as an Engineer I followed the crusier line as I thought thats what I was supposed to do. When I hit 50 I splurged and bought myself an Escort off the C-store. I fitted it with a bunch of cannons and the consoles I thought would benefit those cannons and off I went to experiment. I was simply stunned at the difference. It should have been flimsy. It should have been weak and unable to sustain any damage. But here I was plowing through groups like I had a 10 level advantage and racing out the other side of the group with barely a scratch to show for it. Even as an engineer in one of these vessels it seems unfairly advantaged.
When it came time to roll and ALT I rolled a sci captain and have stuck to sci ships. I know they suck. I know I am unfairly nerfed. But I just can't bring myself to allow the dev's to force me to play the class they want me to play in the ship they want me to fly. Something about that rubs me the wrong way. I like my sci ship in the missions I am playing. It seems to work okay. I do notice its taking me much longer to finish the missions that my engi did. But the PVE was simply a joke. All I did was fly around and explode doing next to no damage to anything or anyone but myself. I wont even bother trying PVP with this character. Something must be done to address the imbalance in this game.
You know what... now roll a tac in their line of ships... I need not say any more
You know what... now roll a tac in their line of ships... I need not say any more
He'll find out that niether Tacs or Escorts are broken or overpowered.
The OP perceptions of the Tac/Escort is dependant on many other game mechanics that have nothing to do with the class or the vessels.
BFI DOffs, TT usage, 3Borg+shields of choice usage, Cycling EPTx powers, etc.
For Science i just had an idea.
Why not give them a Power which inceases the chance for the weapons secondary effect about let's say 2 - 10 % or something?
For Engineers they could get the short Accuracy Buff you mentioned or they could get a short Weapons Energy Buff.
They could even get a "engineered" version of Attack Pattern Beta, there are so many possibilities if the devs where just willing to listen.
As for the FFE being a tac ability, in my opinion most cruisers Tac Stations are too weak, giving them another important power wouldn't help much IMO. But thats just my opinion. I would be deeply grateful if we could get that power.
I hope my english is understandable, since most of the time i find it difficult to find the right words in my native language.
The Accuracy BOff ability for Engineers and a Proc increase chance for Science.
The one thing that I would find interesting for cruiser is to give them a +5/+10 higher energy cap than the other classes, to better reflect a more powerful energy distribution network than the other ships of the line. This way a cruiser can have a 130/135 power in something (no way they can do two without batteries/buffs).
F
For Engineers they could get the short Accuracy Buff you mentioned or they could get a short Weapons Energy Buff.
They could even get a "engineered" version of Attack Pattern Beta, there are so many possibilities if the devs where just willing to listen.
I hope my english is understandable, since most of the time i find it difficult to find the right words in my native language.
I believe a lot of what you want can be had if you use the following powers: "Tac Team" "Emergency Power to Weapons", and "Attack Pattern Beta". AMAZING! they already exist and can be equipped by any cruisers that want them.
I believe a lot of what you want can be had if you use the following powers: "Tac Team" "Emergency Power to Weapons", and "Attack Pattern Beta". AMAZING! they already exist and can be equipped by any cruisers that want them.
Tac Team, emergency Power to Weapons, Attack pattern... .what? :eek:
Lol.
Seriously, i was talking about making it a ENGINEERING power, so cruiser captains do have more range of options. All those powers are Tactical powers, most cruisers do have 2 or 3 tac BOFF stations. There is no room for other powers like torpedo spread or similar things. My point is that Cruisers are clearly meant as Beam array ships, so i think engineering BOFFs should have at least a chance to directly boost that attack power.
I mean Tactical Team as a Tactical BOFF power which prevents the ship to get too much damage, engineering BOFFs should get a opposite power to that.
(explicit: they should be able to buff their ships energy weapons but much more direct than EptW.)
Most engineering BOFF powers are much too passive IMO and since all ships are able to take care of themselves (thankfully), engineering BOFFs should have a bit more diverse powers instead of those passive powers they have at the moment.
I hope my english is understandable, since most of the time i find it difficult to find the right words in my native language.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
The one thing that I would find interesting for cruiser is to give them a +5/+10 higher energy cap than the other classes, to better reflect a more powerful energy distribution network than the other ships of the line. This way a cruiser can have a 130/135 power in something (no way they can do two without batteries/buffs).
This is an intresting thought. How about changing EPS power transfer so that it raises the power levels past the 125 cap? It could be more effective in vessels that have larger warp cores, so it wouldn't help on escorts but science vessels get a decent bonus and cruisers get a large bonus.
If it's tied to a long cool down power you won't have situations where a cruiser is super buffed 100% of the time.
Borticus isnt going to let alone anyone else is going to actually consider checking this thread to making Cruisers worthy again from the stated problems above. This is a massive thread and not one damn developer has looked at this, comment or anything like that.
I think it's honestly soon for me to move on from this game. There is no incentive to play and enjoy my time due to the MASSIVE problems with pvp, pve, content, mechanics.
But no one seems to notice, no one seems to care. You will care though when this game shut downs and pulls of a Star Wars Galaxies. By then it will be too late which I think game is starting on the path of being " too late ".
Whatever I don't really care much anymore what happens.
Actually, I've often argued that the ships in this game are designed wrong, and the reason is that there's only one thing to do with them - fight.
Let's face it, the three types of ships would have three distinct roles in the universe.
Escorts (which should really be called "Warships") are designed to fight, and should be at an advantage in a straight fight. Typical missions would be patrols, raids and defenses. They would be built for short missions.
Science Ships are intended to conduct research and long term studies. They're not MEANT to fight things. Typical missions would be surveys, analysis and exploration. They would be built for short to medium length missions.
Cruisers (which I would have called "Starships") are a multirole vessel. They would be expected to be capable in combat (but not on par with equivalent Escorts) and capable when conducting surveys and exploration (but not on par with Science Ships). Typical missions would be colonization, repair and construction, diplomacy and long range exploration. These ships are meant for long missions, perhaps 5 or more years at a time.
Of course, the real issue is that there is nothing in the game but combat, so all ships are measured against that. There IS no research system in place for Science Ships to excel at, and there is precious little exploration for Cruisers (Starships) to conduct. With no exploration or research, no concern for supply or range, Escorts suffer no disadvantage in non-existent non-combat missions, and as a result dominate the game.
Put another way, Escorts SHOULD be better in battle than the other classes of ships. Now we need the other kinds of missions for the other ships to be better at than the Escorts.
Well written
agree on all accounts.
There could be a 4th template of fleet auxiliaries / combat support.
Perimeter Action Vessels and escorts should be numerous. If the STO community is choosing these types of vessels, then that is accurate. They would be stationed at homeworlds or places like DS9 where they can supply because they have limited range. They may be even placed on through deck cruisers (carriers).
I would recommend a cool down rate on PKAs and STs that leave a system and a sector. As you stated, Cruisers would be the most sustainable vessels. Followed by science vessels.
PKAs and STs should have a cool down rate on torpedo use and mine deployment after they have used up their complement. Unlimited supplies of torpedoes and mines for PKAs and STs is not realistic unless they are in close range of their homeworld /station or a Carrier. The further the PKA is away from its supply chain the longer its cool down rate.
Borticus isnt going to let alone anyone else is going to actually consider checking this thread to making Cruisers worthy again from the stated problems above. This is a massive thread and not one damn developer has looked at this, comment or anything like that.
I think it's honestly soon for me to move on from this game. There is no incentive to play and enjoy my time due to the MASSIVE problems with pvp, pve, content, mechanics.
But no one seems to notice, no one seems to care. You will care though when this game shut downs and pulls of a Star Wars Galaxies. By then it will be too late which I think game is starting on the path of being " too late ".
Whatever I don't really care much anymore what happens.
With the F2P model STO has, I don't think they'll have to worry any time soon. Every time a lockbox or C-Store ship comes out, people buy them up in droves and basically gives them a year worth of operating capital all at once (or more.) I'm actually quite surprised how many players play STO. Items I put on the exchange (I fill up 4 chars daily) are usually cleaned out within 24 hours. I generally don't list anything worth less than 200k due to the item limits and I'm not undercutting per se. Large variety in the names I get from sales e-mails and it's uncommon for me to continually see the same name repeatedly over time.
SWG on the otherhand, was barely living on lifesupport for years, despite most players having 2+ accounts. Some servers had less players than you'll find in the ESD phases most of the time. Sony, due to financial issues, and LA due to a focus shift both decided to pull the plug. They could have gone f2p (afterall, SOE did it with EQ2 and were in the process of doing it with EQ) but decided SWG wasn't worth the time, money, or effort.
STO and it's codebase are in far better shape than SWG ever was and will likely still be around 10 years from now.
cruisers are generally meant for that, cruising. They should be the most powerful and largest ships in game. They're meant to travel the galaxy and deal with whatever they encounter, be it science, tactical, escort, relief, or exploration. They're a go anywhere, do anything class.
They should have the most slots for crew and ship items. Carry the strongest shields, have the most hit points, and the most weapons. Battleships are very large, and slow cruisers.
Escorts are that; small, light vessels with firepower. They're meant to fly by larger, slower ships and provide support. Though they pack a punch, their reach is limited and so require the support of the bigger ships in large tactical engagements. They're not supposed to function alone, they're designed to provide support. meant to deter smaller raiding parties but not be a fleet in a ship.
in game they aren't true escorts, they are escort-cruisers.
Science vessels are meant to have lots of scanning equipment, slow with weak hulls, but well-shielded with limited weapons.
it should run on the order of 5:3:2, cruisers at the top, escorts in the middle, and science at the bottom.
in real life the difference between escort and fleet carriers shows this.
cruisers are generally meant for that, cruising. They should be the most powerful and largest ships in game. They're meant to travel the galaxy and deal with whatever they encounter, be it science, tactical, escort, relief, or exploration. They're a go anywhere, do anything class.
They should have the most slots for crew and ship items. Carry the strongest shields, have the most hit points, and the most weapons. Battleships are very large, and slow cruisers.
Escorts are that; small, light vessels with firepower. They're meant to fly by larger, slower ships and provide support. Though they pack a punch, their reach is limited and so require the support of the bigger ships in large tactical engagements. They're not supposed to function alone, they're designed to provide support. meant to deter smaller raiding parties but not be a fleet in a ship.
in game they aren't true escorts, they are escort-cruisers.
Science vessels are meant to have lots of scanning equipment, slow with weak hulls, but well-shielded with limited weapons.
it should run on the order of 5:3:2, cruisers at the top, escorts in the middle, and science at the bottom.
in real life the difference between escort and fleet carriers shows this.
Except starting with the Akira, and especially the Defiant, the escort role changed dramatically and it seems they tried to mirror that in STO to a degree. Unfortunately, they modeled the cruiser idea on the Galaxy, rather than the more battle oriented Sovereign. That said, the Defiant outgunned, and had superior shields *and* armor to the Sovereign. It was a Warship afterall, despite it's escort classification.
Cruisers != Battleships, and as yet, they haven't added a battleship that's playable yet. The flagship classes for both the Federation and the Klingons is about the closest they've gotten. The cruiser model in game mostly reflects pre DS9 thinking on what cruisers should be and do, mostly long term exploration.
As for sci ships, they often used Mirandas and later Nebulas and Intrepids in those roles. They were quite manueverable, and fast. The idea of slow science ships is a TOS era thing, not so much TMP or TNG. They tried to model this as well (and the Miranda can even mount cannons, which variants actually had in the DS9 era.)
For all intents and purposes, they've tried to stay true to the theme of the various series with the way they've designed ships. The problem isn't so much how they're designed as it is how the class abilities play out. STO's problem is the classes and abilities, not the ships.
This is an intresting thought. How about changing EPS power transfer so that it raises the power levels past the 125 cap? It could be more effective in vessels that have larger warp cores, so it wouldn't help on escorts but science vessels get a decent bonus and cruisers get a large bonus.
If it's tied to a long cool down power you won't have situations where a cruiser is super buffed 100% of the time.
It could, but I think the 130/135 cap would be more demonstrative of a cruisers ability to reroute more energy. It gives the ability to have a larger pool, but is still also able to be depleted, where an eps transfer (soft cap)wouldn't be as measurable.
Tac Team, emergency Power to Weapons, Attack pattern... .what? :eek:
Lol.
Seriously, i was talking about making it a ENGINEERING power, so cruiser captains do have more range of options. All those powers are Tactical powers, most cruisers do have 2 or 3 tac BOFF stations. There is no room for other powers like torpedo spread or similar things. My point is that Cruisers are clearly meant as Beam array ships, so i think engineering BOFFs should have at least a chance to directly boost that attack power.
I mean Tactical Team as a Tactical BOFF power which prevents the ship to get too much damage, engineering BOFFs should get a opposite power to that.
(explicit: they should be able to buff their ships energy weapons but much more direct than EptW.)
Most engineering BOFF powers are much too passive IMO and since all ships are able to take care of themselves (thankfully), engineering BOFFs should have a bit more diverse powers instead of those passive powers they have at the moment.
I hope my english is understandable, since most of the time i find it difficult to find the right words in my native language.
I agree with you Yreo. One of the reasons why I dont have any attack patterns in my cruiser boff skills is that they do take away from from the tactical pool too much. When you have two or three boff skills available, youre talking a 33-50% hit in abilities.
That said, the Defiant outgunned, and had superior shields *and* armor to the Sovereign. It was a Warship afterall, despite it's escort classification.
When I read his statement that "A science character can tank better than a engineer," I think he took a (rather narrow) look at ship shield modifiers, saw that sci ships have higher shield modifiers, and thus concluded sci players can tank better.
Yet we have Miracle Worker III, restoring a whopping +12,285 hit points and +4,095 shield regeneration, and repairs disabled subsystems. We furher have abilities like Engineering Team, Rotate Shield Frequency, and a powerful Engineering Fleet to keep ourselves and our allies alive.
His view that sci folks can tank better than engineers is rather unique (and probably should stay that way).
Maybe my build is outside of the box for a science
Ship the fleet reccon
My build drains power from my enemy who then can't hurt
A fly
Tokens rift 2 and 3 energy siphon 2 , poloran beam arrays
Photonic fleet sub nuke sensor scan
Basically donatra the Tac cube boss at infected the boss
Neg'vars and raptors that spawn at cure I tank them
All with my science ship.I take very little damage usually
Never losing a shield.
When there robbed of weapons power there basically helpless
That's what I mean about a science character tanking
Better than a engineer
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Seriously, i was talking about making it a ENGINEERING power, so cruiser captains do have more range of options. All those powers are Tactical powers, most cruisers do have 2 or 3 tac BOFF stations. There is no room for other powers like torpedo spread or similar things. My point is that Cruisers are clearly meant as Beam array ships, so i think engineering BOFFs should have at least a chance to directly boost that attack power.
I mean Tactical Team as a Tactical BOFF power which prevents the ship to get too much damage, engineering BOFFs should get a opposite power to that.
(explicit: they should be able to buff their ships energy weapons but much more direct than EptW.)
Oh god... just... no. NO. #TRIBBLE%& NO!!!
-.-
Engineering powers are fine. They do exactly what you would expect from an ENGINEER. The only major weakness that engineering powers have is the fact that so many of those powers are on shared cooldown. Cruisers are not meant to be offensive. That's why their tac consoles and BOffs are so limited in comparison to their engineering BOff slots and consoles. I'll say this once. ENGINEERS ARE NOT MEANT TO BE PRIMARY DAMAGE DEALERS. IF YOU WANT THAT JOB ROLL A TACTICAL CAPTAIN.
-.-
Most engineering BOFF powers are much too passive IMO and since all ships are able to take care of themselves (thankfully), engineering BOFFs should have a bit more diverse powers instead of those passive powers they have at the moment.
Passive. Buffing your ship is not passive. I'd say it's quite active. Actively healing your shields, your hull, and actively buffing your weapons, I would say that's not passive at all. And you're a bloody engineer. Your job is not to deal damage, so I would disagree with you wholeheartedly here. Your abilities are not "much too passive", they're perfectly fine for what you were designed to do.
STOP TRYING TO MAKE ENGINEERS INTO TACTICAL CAPTAINS. It's starting to annoy me.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Oh god... just... no. NO. #TRIBBLE%& NO!!!
-.-
Engineering powers are fine. They do exactly what you would expect from an ENGINEER. The only major weakness that engineering powers have is the fact that so many of those powers are on shared cooldown. Cruisers are not meant to be offensive. That's why their tac consoles and BOffs are so limited in comparison to their engineering BOff slots and consoles. I'll say this once. ENGINEERS ARE NOT MEANT TO BE PRIMARY DAMAGE DEALERS. IF YOU WANT THAT JOB ROLL A TACTICAL CAPTAIN.
-.-
Passive. Buffing your ship is not passive. I'd say it's quite active. Actively healing your shields, your hull, and actively buffing your weapons, I would say that's not passive at all. And you're a bloody engineer. Your job is not to deal damage, so I would disagree with you wholeheartedly here. Your abilities are not "much too passive", they're perfectly fine for what you were designed to do.
STOP TRYING TO MAKE ENGINEERS INTO TACTICAL CAPTAINS. It's starting to
annoy me.
According to the character creation guide as other posters
Have pointed out before me STO implies engineers use
Federation technology to do damage to the enemy.
STO has no content I'n this game other than Dps goaled
Content.
You and a very vocal minority may be very happy with
The misisable Dps from cruisers but I believe the vast
Majority of engineer/cruiser captions are not happy
Happy people spend money
Unhappy people leave or change to another class
And the cruiser class doesn't spend the money
It should
Expert players like yourself ( expert ) mind you
May get tolerable Dps from your expert builds
Who are cruisers targeted at especially using
CANNON ships ? The casual fan player I think
That is a huge mistake costing this company a lot
Of money I'n the long run.
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
I'm a tac captain, and I swear by my fully armed and operational dreadnought cruiser. And with the new changes, escort survivability is taking a hit with no recompense, and there will be a new high damage to hull beam to add to our arsenal.
Its a good time to go cruiser.
But seriously, this game has it all mixed up. Tacs should grab some heal talents and fly a dps/heal cruiser. Engineers should get in an escort or destroyer or outright get a carrier for zombie dps builds. Science captains are the perfect cruiser captain with Sub nuke and sub nuke doffs!
Science vessels don't exist.
"Last Engage! Magical Girl Origami-san" is in print! Now with three times more rainbows.
Oh god... just... no. NO. #TRIBBLE%& NO!!!
-.-
Engineering powers are fine. They do exactly what you would expect from an ENGINEER. The only major weakness that engineering powers have is the fact that so many of those powers are on shared cooldown. Cruisers are not meant to be offensive. That's why their tac consoles and BOffs are so limited in comparison to their engineering BOff slots and consoles. I'll say this once. ENGINEERS ARE NOT MEANT TO BE PRIMARY DAMAGE DEALERS. IF YOU WANT THAT JOB ROLL A TACTICAL CAPTAIN.
-.-
Passive. Buffing your ship is not passive. I'd say it's quite active. Actively healing your shields, your hull, and actively buffing your weapons, I would say that's not passive at all. And you're a bloody engineer. Your job is not to deal damage, so I would disagree with you wholeheartedly here. Your abilities are not "much too passive", they're perfectly fine for what you were designed to do.
STOP TRYING TO MAKE ENGINEERS INTO TACTICAL CAPTAINS. It's starting to annoy me.
Then where is the glass cannon part of tactical players in escorts then? and why have defensive buffs as part of offensive ones? because isnt providing defensive buffs a cruisers or science job?
According to the character creation guide as other posters
Have pointed out before me STO implies engineers use
Federation technology to do damage to the enemy.
STO has no content I'n this game other than Dps goaled
Content.
You and a very vocal minority may be very happy with
The misisable Dps from cruisers but I believe the vast
Majority of engineer/cruiser captions are not happy
Happy people spend money
Unhappy people leave or change to another class
And the cruiser class doesn't spend the money
It should
Expert players like yourself ( expert ) mind you
May get tolerable Dps from your expert builds
Who are cruisers targeted at especially using
CANNON ships ? The casual fan player I think
That is a huge mistake costing this company a lot
Of money I'n the long run.
I have stated this many times over. But I guess I need to say it again. I am an Engineering Captain. Who flies a Cruiser. Last I checked, my ship had federation technology on it. Since last I checked, my FEDERATION Cruiser was made in the Utopia Planetia Shipyards. Course I could be totally wrong about that and in reality my ship was made in fluidic space and given undine weapons, which would explain why I seem to get good dps whereas players like you using fed tech get crappy dps.
Or... here's an alternative reason. Maybe, just maybe, I looked up how to optimize the DPS output of a cruiser class ship, and altered my build to do so? Maybe? Possibly? Naaah impossible, no way in heck I could have bothered to put in effort to look up effective methods of increasing dps and then experimented and perfected them. No way, nuh uh, I just be vocal without being able to back it up.
-.-
I am getting tired of saying this, but I guess I gotta say it again. You CAN get huge dps out of CERTAIN cruisers that are designed specifically for damage output. Ex. Regent Class, Galor Class, D'Kora, Odyssey Tactical Cruiser, Sovereign/Noble/Majestic Class ASSAULT Cruiser. Yes, the free AC can get really good dps. If you bother to build it right.
If you want to kirk it out, and use your own build, that's perfectly fine, and the game's content supports such play. But don't expect to do any decent numbers against real targets, like players or ELITE enemies (not just stfs, but put your difficulty level on elite and then play your game).
Then where is the glass cannon part of tactical players in escorts then? and why have defensive buffs as part of offensive ones? because isnt providing defensive buffs a cruisers or science job?
Well most free escorts are kinda squishy, like the Patrol/Advanced Escort. Especially because tac captains don't have MW or RSF (both of which increase your survivability by a large amount). It's only when you get to the c-store and fleet escorts that the squish goes away, courtesy of the bolstered HP and consoles, plus a usually somewhat superior BOff setup (it's amazing how much survivability a single uni ensign can give). And you will have to elaborate as to what you meant by "and why have defensive buffs as part of offensive ones?". I think you're talking about APO, and APD, but I could be wrong. And those defensive buffs are nothing compared to what you can get out of Aux2SIF and HE.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
If you want to kirk it out, and use your own build, that's perfectly fine, and the game's content supports such play.
Hang on a sec, the endgame is a DPS race... and as you noted any cruiser not optimised for DPS is terrible for it, please explain unto me how the game in any way supports casual builds for I can't see it.
If you want to kirk it out, and use your own build, that's perfectly fine, and the game's content supports such play. But don't expect to do any decent numbers against real targets, like players or ELITE enemies (not just stfs, but put your difficulty level on elite and then play your game).
Hang on a sec, the endgame is a DPS race... and as you noted any cruiser not optimised for DPS is terrible for it, please explain unto me how the game in any way supports casual builds for I can't see it.
Explained.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
If you want to kirk it out, and use your own build, that's perfectly fine, and the game's content supports such play. But don't expect to do any decent numbers against real targets, like players or ELITE enemies (not just stfs, but put your difficulty level on elite and then play your game).
Hardly, I don't know how it works on easy mode (other than rolling a tac/scort I never set the game to easy mode) but I do know that I get the same kind of figures in normal STFs that I do in elites and while sure they don't have the same health figures that doesn't make them any easier, they still put out the close to the same damned damage
Actually Jellico1 is right in one point. Casuall player wants to get his ship, put some cool skills* into their boffs and zip left and right getting some decent damage in damage centered game**. Most of them don't expect to get superb DPS on pair with escort or expert players in minmaxed (or even optimized) builds. They expect to have fun from their game. Fun means that you are blowing up enemies (look **). There is no place in STO PvE for healers/CC/whatever else outised of very few specific missions. All is about "kill, blow, maull, WAAAAAAAGHH!!!
So yes, Jellico is right in one - DPS for cruisers is too low for casual play. There needs to be an option for cruiser to get higher one. Be that heavy beams, heavily boosted DEM, better transphasic weapons - whatever. But if this wont happen people from PvE will always moan about cruisers being underpowered. And they will be right actually. Being good at game means that you are getting the "above average". Being medicore means that you get your fun out of it and nothing else. Just some zipping around, shooting at dumb AI...
* - skills that have "this helps you kill" in description and "this" is actually working and giving acceptable (for medicore player) boost to his damage. Problem with STO is that most of it's skills are not working properly or at all (DEM with beams, plasma weapons, trying to use Aceton on cruiser?) and thus denying some fun from people who don't know (and don't want to know) the game at expert levels. Point at formus and Mavs builds wont help cause not everyone wants to use forums. Game and ship builds should be easyily understandable for anyone who enters the game.
** - imagine healer class in DOOM? Because that was cruiser in STO is. Sure, it can survive huge amount of damage even with half brain-dead pilot, but frankly where is the fun of just surviving in a game that is about killing? This is not "Starfleet Medical Center Online".
To cut the rant on "learn to fly cruiser". I know how to fly one. I have a full aux healer build in Star Cruiser (yeah, the free one) flying at 25 75 25 75 power levels with EPtW and weapons battery (plus NI and EPS Transfer) to get some damage boost in case there is oportunity to blast some damaged enemy. But I'm playing PvP mostly and there you either learn, or die.
Most player just want to put themselves into cruiser (big, mean ship) and kill Borg.
Hardly, I don't know how it works on easy mode (other than rolling a tac/scort I never set the game to easy mode) but I do know that I get the same kind of figures in normal STFs that I do in elites and while sure they don't have the same health figures that doesn't make them any easier, they still put out the close to the same damned damage
You can use any build for normal PvE. That is all I was saying. But for stronger, more powerful PvE, you need to use certain builds and do things a certain way or you won't get maximized damage out your cruiser. I am sorry to say that this game requires you to do research and figure out which builds are best for DPS. Cuz you are correct, it is a DPS race, but ONLY in ESTFs and certain fleet events. The rest of the PvE can be done with low dps and it doesn't even matter. Hence why I underlined what I underlined.
Actually Jellico1 is right in one point. Casuall player wants to get his ship, put some cool skills* into their boffs and zip left and right getting some decent damage in damage centered game**. Most of them don't expect to get superb DPS on pair with escort or expert players in minmaxed (or even optimized) builds. They expect to have fun from their game. Fun means that you are blowing up enemies (look **). There is no place in STO PvE for healers/CC/whatever else outised of very few specific missions. All is about "kill, blow, maull, WAAAAAAAGHH!!!
So yes, Jellico is right in one - DPS for cruisers is too low for casual play. There needs to be an option for cruiser to get higher one. Be that heavy beams, heavily boosted DEM, better transphasic weapons - whatever. But if this wont happen people from PvE will always moan about cruisers being underpowered. And they will be right actually. Being good at game means that you are getting the "above average". Being medicore means that you get your fun out of it and nothing else. Just some zipping around, shooting at dumb AI...
* - skills that have "this helps you kill" in description and "this" is actually working and giving acceptable (for medicore player) boost to his damage. Problem with STO is that most of it's skills are not working properly or at all (DEM with beams, plasma weapons, trying to use Aceton on cruiser?) and thus denying some fun from people who don't know (and don't want to know) the game at expert levels. Point at formus and Mavs builds wont help cause not everyone wants to use forums. Game and ship builds should be easyily understandable for anyone who enters the game.
** - imagine healer class in DOOM? Because that was cruiser in STO is. Sure, it can survive huge amount of damage even with half brain-dead pilot, but frankly where is the fun of just surviving in a game that is about killing? This is not "Starfleet Medical Center Online".
To cut the rant on "learn to fly cruiser". I know how to fly one. I have a full aux healer build in Star Cruiser (yeah, the free one) flying at 25 75 25 75 power levels with EPtW and weapons battery (plus NI and EPS Transfer) to get some damage boost in case there is oportunity to blast some damaged enemy. But I'm playing PvP mostly and there you either learn, or die.
Most player just want to put themselves into cruiser (big, mean ship) and kill Borg.
That one you'll have to take up with the devs. As for the L2P? I never said that anyone needed to do that. I just bothered to. And now am less dissatisfied with my cruiser than I was before. Still am mind you, but it's tolerable now, instead of downright pathetic. And you learned to fly a star cruiser? Kudos to you (no sarcasm intended there, never could figure out how to make that particular one work). And unfortunately, like I told adam, this game does not allow for kirking after a certain point. I wish it did, but since it's so heavily DPS based, the only ones who get the fun are the tacscorts.
And I also agree that cruiser DPS is too low for casual play (at least in the ESTF area). But if you optimize it's damage output ability, then cruisers can do INSANELY good damage.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
It is rather pointless to say it is the criuser if you don't put your points into the right places.It is you who makes the criuse what it is.
This times a million.
There are straight-up murderous cruisers out there that'd put the majority of pub escorts to shame. I've been killed by said cruisers more times than I'd like to count (I can't win a war of attrition, especially if they're packing heat).
It's not the ship, it's not your bridge officers and it's not your character class. It's you.
Comments
Cool idea!
When it came time to roll and ALT I rolled a sci captain and have stuck to sci ships. I know they suck. I know I am unfairly nerfed. But I just can't bring myself to allow the dev's to force me to play the class they want me to play in the ship they want me to fly. Something about that rubs me the wrong way. I like my sci ship in the missions I am playing. It seems to work okay. I do notice its taking me much longer to finish the missions that my engi did. But the PVE was simply a joke. All I did was fly around and explode doing next to no damage to anything or anyone but myself. I wont even bother trying PVP with this character. Something must be done to address the imbalance in this game.
You know what... now roll a tac in their line of ships... I need not say any more
He'll find out that niether Tacs or Escorts are broken or overpowered.
The OP perceptions of the Tac/Escort is dependant on many other game mechanics that have nothing to do with the class or the vessels.
BFI DOffs, TT usage, 3Borg+shields of choice usage, Cycling EPTx powers, etc.
R.I.P
The Accuracy BOff ability for Engineers and a Proc increase chance for Science.
I like these ideas.
R.I.P
I believe a lot of what you want can be had if you use the following powers: "Tac Team" "Emergency Power to Weapons", and "Attack Pattern Beta". AMAZING! they already exist and can be equipped by any cruisers that want them.
Tac Team, emergency Power to Weapons, Attack pattern... .what? :eek:
Lol.
Seriously, i was talking about making it a ENGINEERING power, so cruiser captains do have more range of options. All those powers are Tactical powers, most cruisers do have 2 or 3 tac BOFF stations. There is no room for other powers like torpedo spread or similar things. My point is that Cruisers are clearly meant as Beam array ships, so i think engineering BOFFs should have at least a chance to directly boost that attack power.
I mean Tactical Team as a Tactical BOFF power which prevents the ship to get too much damage, engineering BOFFs should get a opposite power to that.
(explicit: they should be able to buff their ships energy weapons but much more direct than EptW.)
Most engineering BOFF powers are much too passive IMO and since all ships are able to take care of themselves (thankfully), engineering BOFFs should have a bit more diverse powers instead of those passive powers they have at the moment.
I hope my english is understandable, since most of the time i find it difficult to find the right words in my native language.
This is an intresting thought. How about changing EPS power transfer so that it raises the power levels past the 125 cap? It could be more effective in vessels that have larger warp cores, so it wouldn't help on escorts but science vessels get a decent bonus and cruisers get a large bonus.
If it's tied to a long cool down power you won't have situations where a cruiser is super buffed 100% of the time.
I think it's honestly soon for me to move on from this game. There is no incentive to play and enjoy my time due to the MASSIVE problems with pvp, pve, content, mechanics.
But no one seems to notice, no one seems to care. You will care though when this game shut downs and pulls of a Star Wars Galaxies. By then it will be too late which I think game is starting on the path of being " too late ".
Whatever I don't really care much anymore what happens.
agree on all accounts.
There could be a 4th template of fleet auxiliaries / combat support.
Perimeter Action Vessels and escorts should be numerous. If the STO community is choosing these types of vessels, then that is accurate. They would be stationed at homeworlds or places like DS9 where they can supply because they have limited range. They may be even placed on through deck cruisers (carriers).
I would recommend a cool down rate on PKAs and STs that leave a system and a sector. As you stated, Cruisers would be the most sustainable vessels. Followed by science vessels.
PKAs and STs should have a cool down rate on torpedo use and mine deployment after they have used up their complement. Unlimited supplies of torpedoes and mines for PKAs and STs is not realistic unless they are in close range of their homeworld /station or a Carrier. The further the PKA is away from its supply chain the longer its cool down rate.
With the F2P model STO has, I don't think they'll have to worry any time soon. Every time a lockbox or C-Store ship comes out, people buy them up in droves and basically gives them a year worth of operating capital all at once (or more.) I'm actually quite surprised how many players play STO. Items I put on the exchange (I fill up 4 chars daily) are usually cleaned out within 24 hours. I generally don't list anything worth less than 200k due to the item limits and I'm not undercutting per se. Large variety in the names I get from sales e-mails and it's uncommon for me to continually see the same name repeatedly over time.
SWG on the otherhand, was barely living on lifesupport for years, despite most players having 2+ accounts. Some servers had less players than you'll find in the ESD phases most of the time. Sony, due to financial issues, and LA due to a focus shift both decided to pull the plug. They could have gone f2p (afterall, SOE did it with EQ2 and were in the process of doing it with EQ) but decided SWG wasn't worth the time, money, or effort.
STO and it's codebase are in far better shape than SWG ever was and will likely still be around 10 years from now.
They should have the most slots for crew and ship items. Carry the strongest shields, have the most hit points, and the most weapons. Battleships are very large, and slow cruisers.
Escorts are that; small, light vessels with firepower. They're meant to fly by larger, slower ships and provide support. Though they pack a punch, their reach is limited and so require the support of the bigger ships in large tactical engagements. They're not supposed to function alone, they're designed to provide support. meant to deter smaller raiding parties but not be a fleet in a ship.
in game they aren't true escorts, they are escort-cruisers.
Science vessels are meant to have lots of scanning equipment, slow with weak hulls, but well-shielded with limited weapons.
it should run on the order of 5:3:2, cruisers at the top, escorts in the middle, and science at the bottom.
in real life the difference between escort and fleet carriers shows this.
Except starting with the Akira, and especially the Defiant, the escort role changed dramatically and it seems they tried to mirror that in STO to a degree. Unfortunately, they modeled the cruiser idea on the Galaxy, rather than the more battle oriented Sovereign. That said, the Defiant outgunned, and had superior shields *and* armor to the Sovereign. It was a Warship afterall, despite it's escort classification.
Cruisers != Battleships, and as yet, they haven't added a battleship that's playable yet. The flagship classes for both the Federation and the Klingons is about the closest they've gotten. The cruiser model in game mostly reflects pre DS9 thinking on what cruisers should be and do, mostly long term exploration.
As for sci ships, they often used Mirandas and later Nebulas and Intrepids in those roles. They were quite manueverable, and fast. The idea of slow science ships is a TOS era thing, not so much TMP or TNG. They tried to model this as well (and the Miranda can even mount cannons, which variants actually had in the DS9 era.)
For all intents and purposes, they've tried to stay true to the theme of the various series with the way they've designed ships. The problem isn't so much how they're designed as it is how the class abilities play out. STO's problem is the classes and abilities, not the ships.
It could, but I think the 130/135 cap would be more demonstrative of a cruisers ability to reroute more energy. It gives the ability to have a larger pool, but is still also able to be depleted, where an eps transfer (soft cap)wouldn't be as measurable.
I agree with you Yreo. One of the reasons why I dont have any attack patterns in my cruiser boff skills is that they do take away from from the tactical pool too much. When you have two or three boff skills available, youre talking a 33-50% hit in abilities.
Speculation not fact.
Maybe my build is outside of the box for a science
Ship the fleet reccon
My build drains power from my enemy who then can't hurt
A fly
Tokens rift 2 and 3 energy siphon 2 , poloran beam arrays
Photonic fleet sub nuke sensor scan
Basically donatra the Tac cube boss at infected the boss
Neg'vars and raptors that spawn at cure I tank them
All with my science ship.I take very little damage usually
Never losing a shield.
When there robbed of weapons power there basically helpless
That's what I mean about a science character tanking
Better than a engineer
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Oh god... just... no. NO. #TRIBBLE%& NO!!!
-.-
Engineering powers are fine. They do exactly what you would expect from an ENGINEER. The only major weakness that engineering powers have is the fact that so many of those powers are on shared cooldown. Cruisers are not meant to be offensive. That's why their tac consoles and BOffs are so limited in comparison to their engineering BOff slots and consoles. I'll say this once. ENGINEERS ARE NOT MEANT TO BE PRIMARY DAMAGE DEALERS. IF YOU WANT THAT JOB ROLL A TACTICAL CAPTAIN.
-.-
Passive. Buffing your ship is not passive. I'd say it's quite active. Actively healing your shields, your hull, and actively buffing your weapons, I would say that's not passive at all. And you're a bloody engineer. Your job is not to deal damage, so I would disagree with you wholeheartedly here. Your abilities are not "much too passive", they're perfectly fine for what you were designed to do.
STOP TRYING TO MAKE ENGINEERS INTO TACTICAL CAPTAINS. It's starting to annoy me.
According to the character creation guide as other posters
Have pointed out before me STO implies engineers use
Federation technology to do damage to the enemy.
STO has no content I'n this game other than Dps goaled
Content.
You and a very vocal minority may be very happy with
The misisable Dps from cruisers but I believe the vast
Majority of engineer/cruiser captions are not happy
Happy people spend money
Unhappy people leave or change to another class
And the cruiser class doesn't spend the money
It should
Expert players like yourself ( expert ) mind you
May get tolerable Dps from your expert builds
Who are cruisers targeted at especially using
CANNON ships ? The casual fan player I think
That is a huge mistake costing this company a lot
Of money I'n the long run.
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Its a good time to go cruiser.
But seriously, this game has it all mixed up. Tacs should grab some heal talents and fly a dps/heal cruiser. Engineers should get in an escort or destroyer or outright get a carrier for zombie dps builds. Science captains are the perfect cruiser captain with Sub nuke and sub nuke doffs!
Science vessels don't exist.
"Last Engage! Magical Girl Origami-san" is in print! Now with three times more rainbows.
Support the "Armored Unicorn" vehicle initiative today!
Thanks for Harajuku. Now let's get a real "Magical Girl" costume!
Then where is the glass cannon part of tactical players in escorts then? and why have defensive buffs as part of offensive ones? because isnt providing defensive buffs a cruisers or science job?
I have stated this many times over. But I guess I need to say it again. I am an Engineering Captain. Who flies a Cruiser. Last I checked, my ship had federation technology on it. Since last I checked, my FEDERATION Cruiser was made in the Utopia Planetia Shipyards. Course I could be totally wrong about that and in reality my ship was made in fluidic space and given undine weapons, which would explain why I seem to get good dps whereas players like you using fed tech get crappy dps.
Or... here's an alternative reason. Maybe, just maybe, I looked up how to optimize the DPS output of a cruiser class ship, and altered my build to do so? Maybe? Possibly? Naaah impossible, no way in heck I could have bothered to put in effort to look up effective methods of increasing dps and then experimented and perfected them. No way, nuh uh, I just be vocal without being able to back it up.
-.-
I am getting tired of saying this, but I guess I gotta say it again. You CAN get huge dps out of CERTAIN cruisers that are designed specifically for damage output. Ex. Regent Class, Galor Class, D'Kora, Odyssey Tactical Cruiser, Sovereign/Noble/Majestic Class ASSAULT Cruiser. Yes, the free AC can get really good dps. If you bother to build it right.
If you want to kirk it out, and use your own build, that's perfectly fine, and the game's content supports such play. But don't expect to do any decent numbers against real targets, like players or ELITE enemies (not just stfs, but put your difficulty level on elite and then play your game).
Well most free escorts are kinda squishy, like the Patrol/Advanced Escort. Especially because tac captains don't have MW or RSF (both of which increase your survivability by a large amount). It's only when you get to the c-store and fleet escorts that the squish goes away, courtesy of the bolstered HP and consoles, plus a usually somewhat superior BOff setup (it's amazing how much survivability a single uni ensign can give). And you will have to elaborate as to what you meant by "and why have defensive buffs as part of offensive ones?". I think you're talking about APO, and APD, but I could be wrong. And those defensive buffs are nothing compared to what you can get out of Aux2SIF and HE.
Hang on a sec, the endgame is a DPS race... and as you noted any cruiser not optimised for DPS is terrible for it, please explain unto me how the game in any way supports casual builds for I can't see it.
Explained.
Hardly, I don't know how it works on easy mode (other than rolling a tac/scort I never set the game to easy mode) but I do know that I get the same kind of figures in normal STFs that I do in elites and while sure they don't have the same health figures that doesn't make them any easier, they still put out the close to the same damned damage
So yes, Jellico is right in one - DPS for cruisers is too low for casual play. There needs to be an option for cruiser to get higher one. Be that heavy beams, heavily boosted DEM, better transphasic weapons - whatever. But if this wont happen people from PvE will always moan about cruisers being underpowered. And they will be right actually. Being good at game means that you are getting the "above average". Being medicore means that you get your fun out of it and nothing else. Just some zipping around, shooting at dumb AI...
* - skills that have "this helps you kill" in description and "this" is actually working and giving acceptable (for medicore player) boost to his damage. Problem with STO is that most of it's skills are not working properly or at all (DEM with beams, plasma weapons, trying to use Aceton on cruiser?) and thus denying some fun from people who don't know (and don't want to know) the game at expert levels. Point at formus and Mavs builds wont help cause not everyone wants to use forums. Game and ship builds should be easyily understandable for anyone who enters the game.
** - imagine healer class in DOOM? Because that was cruiser in STO is. Sure, it can survive huge amount of damage even with half brain-dead pilot, but frankly where is the fun of just surviving in a game that is about killing? This is not "Starfleet Medical Center Online".
To cut the rant on "learn to fly cruiser". I know how to fly one. I have a full aux healer build in Star Cruiser (yeah, the free one) flying at 25 75 25 75 power levels with EPtW and weapons battery (plus NI and EPS Transfer) to get some damage boost in case there is oportunity to blast some damaged enemy. But I'm playing PvP mostly and there you either learn, or die.
Most player just want to put themselves into cruiser (big, mean ship) and kill Borg.
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
Star Trek Gamers
You can use any build for normal PvE. That is all I was saying. But for stronger, more powerful PvE, you need to use certain builds and do things a certain way or you won't get maximized damage out your cruiser. I am sorry to say that this game requires you to do research and figure out which builds are best for DPS. Cuz you are correct, it is a DPS race, but ONLY in ESTFs and certain fleet events. The rest of the PvE can be done with low dps and it doesn't even matter. Hence why I underlined what I underlined.
That one you'll have to take up with the devs. As for the L2P? I never said that anyone needed to do that. I just bothered to. And now am less dissatisfied with my cruiser than I was before. Still am mind you, but it's tolerable now, instead of downright pathetic. And you learned to fly a star cruiser? Kudos to you (no sarcasm intended there, never could figure out how to make that particular one work). And unfortunately, like I told adam, this game does not allow for kirking after a certain point. I wish it did, but since it's so heavily DPS based, the only ones who get the fun are the tacscorts.
And I also agree that cruiser DPS is too low for casual play (at least in the ESTF area). But if you optimize it's damage output ability, then cruisers can do INSANELY good damage.
This times a million.
There are straight-up murderous cruisers out there that'd put the majority of pub escorts to shame. I've been killed by said cruisers more times than I'd like to count (I can't win a war of attrition, especially if they're packing heat).
It's not the ship, it's not your bridge officers and it's not your character class. It's you.
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples