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Anyone have issues with 'runners' in Colony Invasion?
levi3
Member Posts: 1,663 Arc User
I call them that - there the people - usually in omega or Maco gear(which I have too) who use stealth to run ahead a secure bonuses and leave everyone behind.
Fact is you don't need to do this - all you are doing is argoing the whole map!
You can go as far as the second computer download and not spawn anything further - as soon as you hit the second diplomat you will spawn the guys at the dying colonist - and if you continue to the dying colonist you will cause the guys around the second terminal to spawn
It gets really bad if 2 hot heads decide to run and let the other 3 deal with all the TRIBBLE
In fact you get more marks by letting the colonist 'die' and beaming them up - but you are doing nothing positive by getting the 3rd diplomat and 3rd data download - as they can be taken out as a group
in fact everything can be taken step by step - but it is better to go as far as the second data download and get that - thats what I do - I take down the data at first terminal then proceed to tag the first diplomat and data download -then come BACK to help the group with the next spawn
of course trying to communicate this in a PUG has proven useless - except 1 time when I was PM'd and told that the deliberatly liked to TRIBBLE people
ok - no problem - i have the solution to deal with runners who are effectively TRIBBLE the team - if the won't listen and I see them cloak or not and head past the second diplomat
this is what I do - and everyone should to stop this anti-team practice:
they pass the 2nd diplomat and head for the downed colonist - 5 guys will spawn - if you are cloaked you can make it to them and by them
option a) here's what to do if you also have cloak- tag the closest NPC in your range(around that 2nd colonist) and fire on them - then quickly run back around the corner to join the people left behind - the runner a$$ is grass even if they are cloaked in Maco top gear as all 5 NPC's will target them!! (I am still testing this as sometimes they will follow you - not something you want- so I am trying out option B more and see which is better)
Option B)If no cloak well then you have to run past them take all the fire - die quick and the NPC's will target the runner(you just respawn back to where the others are so it does not matter)
As I return to the group and help the rest of the team fight the battle all watch as the runner's futile attempt with heals, buffs, consumables to stay alive - 90%+ they die quick no matter how good they are - STF ground guys especially - poof!
Oh and then the have to respwan back at the beginning close to where the rest of the group is fighting the 2nd, 3rd and 4th spawed guys - which they brought down on us - and right where they should be as a team - no more running ahead then as its also insta-death
Fact is you don't need to do this - all you are doing is argoing the whole map!
You can go as far as the second computer download and not spawn anything further - as soon as you hit the second diplomat you will spawn the guys at the dying colonist - and if you continue to the dying colonist you will cause the guys around the second terminal to spawn
It gets really bad if 2 hot heads decide to run and let the other 3 deal with all the TRIBBLE
In fact you get more marks by letting the colonist 'die' and beaming them up - but you are doing nothing positive by getting the 3rd diplomat and 3rd data download - as they can be taken out as a group
in fact everything can be taken step by step - but it is better to go as far as the second data download and get that - thats what I do - I take down the data at first terminal then proceed to tag the first diplomat and data download -then come BACK to help the group with the next spawn
of course trying to communicate this in a PUG has proven useless - except 1 time when I was PM'd and told that the deliberatly liked to TRIBBLE people
ok - no problem - i have the solution to deal with runners who are effectively TRIBBLE the team - if the won't listen and I see them cloak or not and head past the second diplomat
this is what I do - and everyone should to stop this anti-team practice:
they pass the 2nd diplomat and head for the downed colonist - 5 guys will spawn - if you are cloaked you can make it to them and by them
option a) here's what to do if you also have cloak- tag the closest NPC in your range(around that 2nd colonist) and fire on them - then quickly run back around the corner to join the people left behind - the runner a$$ is grass even if they are cloaked in Maco top gear as all 5 NPC's will target them!! (I am still testing this as sometimes they will follow you - not something you want- so I am trying out option B more and see which is better)
Option B)If no cloak well then you have to run past them take all the fire - die quick and the NPC's will target the runner(you just respawn back to where the others are so it does not matter)
As I return to the group and help the rest of the team fight the battle all watch as the runner's futile attempt with heals, buffs, consumables to stay alive - 90%+ they die quick no matter how good they are - STF ground guys especially - poof!
Oh and then the have to respwan back at the beginning close to where the rest of the group is fighting the 2nd, 3rd and 4th spawed guys - which they brought down on us - and right where they should be as a team - no more running ahead then as its also insta-death
Post edited by levi3 on
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Still there is tons of time to get to the 2nd colonist as a group - and its faster if everyone sticks together
the guys around the 2nd colonist don't spawn until someone gets into that area and then the "dying"' seems to speed up - and that last diplomat and computer download are safe until you get right into that zone - so these runners are Fing it up for what - to try to save a colonist they never can?
also on a pug I have only once in 200 runs seen someone save the last colonist - so why spawn the entire map if you can't make it? You just make it harder on the group - in order to save all 3 you need a team plan and the runners need team support - that is not going to happen on a pug - so they should not TRIBBLE it for the rest
today I brought down a badass "maco elite commander" - the title he gives himself - 2x for trying to run the map with everyone else behind - if you did that on a elite STF run you would get a bad rep real quick(of course you would die quicker too)
everything depends on the teams abilities too - some groups - few - can handle it - also the NPC matters too - Jem Hadar are easy - but since most players don't have willpower maxed - if you do this with the Undine - it turns into a nightmare quick
Its education - if they don't listen to chat - or mesage boards - keep bringing them back to the start - hopefully they will clue it that the diplomat and data the were trying for is still there when the team gets to that point - so they won't feel the need to run the map. (and get the last colonist which is near impossible without support)
People who dont use the chat window in PUGs should burn in the flaming pits of hell.
I find that most of these "Heros" are vetern STF ground players who should definitly know better
reminds me of my first STF elite ground infected - I ran ahead into the last room and died pretty quick as the other 4 stayed at the entence - one said : "he'll be back" as I ran in
then the other said "respawn if your ready to go in as a team" - I learned my lesson quick
Unfortunately - unlike STF ground - if you spawn the map and keep going the mod moves back down the map to where the rest of the team is- that's why runners TRIBBLE the team
www.divisionhispana.com
They better fix the bug that allows you to beam up the diplomat while taking damage - if you do you lose the bonus
It's obviously a bug because in the entire game right from level 1 you can't interact with anything while taking dmg - it will boot you out of the sequence and you have to wait until dmg stops
so many diplomat bonus is lost because people beam up while taking dmg
9 times out of ten these "heros" are wearing M12 Maco or Omega gear - I should go into an STF ground pug and start running around doing stupid stuff - and of course I would be told off - "you don't know what you are doing TRIBBLE"
they don't know what they are doing in Colony invasion
Today I did a run with no-one in maco/omega gear(technically not true as I keep the visuals disabled on mine - which I doubt many others who got the gear do - i just like my look without it)
anyways we stayed together - fought together as a group - section by section - got all 3 diplos/data/colonist - even the last one - on a PUG!
There is ZERO reason to run ahead - you argo the map - if you don't make it and get the 2nd colonist - 3rd data and last colonist - its lost 90% of the time as now you have spawned the map and no amount of cloak - droping the shard can get you back to the last section in time
Don't run ahead - stay as a team - just like ground STF
They think that they do know better.
I don;t even say hi anymore when i go into these. I just did the Starbase Incursion and got responded back with few comments about my body parts as well as how we should do the mission. Just for saying hello. The lovely person blew up five or six times, the rest 3 or 4 and I had no issue.
Made it with like 4 seconds left, That amazed me.
But in PUGs, definitely dont do that, no guarentee the 3-4 left behind can handle that...
My character Tsin'xing
I typically do run ahead of the group using a combination of stealth tactics, and can both rescue the colonists and diplomats, while downloading the data from the various terminals. Occasionally this has lead to problems where I can't sneak by a group of enemies and consequently am unable to secure the objective in question (person/terminal "x"). However, this has been the exception as opposed to the standard.
I have found in the instances (but certainly not all of them) where I do stay with the group right from the beginning, more lives are lost and data stolen. So I don't agree with the argument that having someone covertly trying to secure the objectives harms the group.
There certainly will be instances where the one or two people running ahead will be unable to achieve their objectives, but there are also instances that when everyone stays together, certain objectives will be lost as well.
Also of note, I have yet to be in a group (whether people stick together or not) that when team members fall, others consistently move to revive them. It seems like people are too impatient to wait to be revived, unlike in most ground based Special Task Force Operations.
If people were more inclined to wait, then I could see how by having one or two people running ahead could cause severe problems for the team as a whole if they are taken down.
As I stated at the beginning of this post, these are just my own experiences. I always keep the chat window open, and try to communicate with others. But the complaints that I have seen in this thread so far, seem to contradict my own experiences.
That said I am eager to hear more on this matter, which might very well lead to a change in my own tactics for this event.
It should also be noted, if a group agrees to a certain strategy, people should follow through with it. Teamwork is key in any group. Whether that means fighting as one large group, or having three of four people battle the mobs, while one or two people sneak ahead to secure the targets in question.
Take care all.
is to kill the enemy trying to take the data from computer , and rescue the colonists and do so quickly as there on timers . do not try to beam the diplo out if you or they are under attack "as you will not get points" if either you of he is taking damage . one should run ahead and get the second pc while no enemy is there it's ez-er this way , and get the waving npc on the corner . the next npc is the 1/2 way mark on the map and you should not pass this point , but a tac with shards of poss & security team can get this npc with out taking damage , as well as a eng with a shield . after this npc is saved you should return to the group and help kill ! DO NOT KEEP RUNNING THRU TO END !
when all bad guys are dead and team is back together you should move as a team past the 1/2 way part and 1 player should go over the wall to last diplo "beam diplo at max range so you don't draw argo from bad guys close by", and one player should go to last computer before the bad guys spawn to try to take that computer again this is the easy way to make sure you get the points is to take the computer befor the bad guy that steals the info even spawns. ,as those both are completed only the one npc is left on the ground across from the last computer and with 2 players if the area either can get him . again do not beam out the npc if you or it is being attacked , then move to the others and help kill .
once all the bad guys up to and around the last computer are killed go in to the back alley and kill Mook , once mook is dead you only have the last group to kill. and your finished
as long as no one tried to beam out a npc while under fire your score should be 3/3 3/3 3/3 and points for mook . max point run .. and very easy to do .
Irony asside 99% of the groups can't get 100% success on this mission just blasting mobs on the way so i'll keep running away ... and most of the time doing the killing job behind too because your DPS sucks.
kplzthxla~
Everytime this has happened, I've filed a report to a GM and I've asked everyone else to do the same thing. I wish Cryptic would do something about this. I'm tired of runnig around killing everything so this person(s) can just be a bot and not have to do anything but still get the rewards.
As for the topic on hand, I usually do what the group does. If someone runs ahead and tries to save all I'll go with them and distract the enemies. If no one does I go up to the second console and get the data and save the people and then stop there and mop up. Once everything is cleared out, then we move on to the second half of the mission.
"No ... No you can't get away. From hell's heart I stab at thee. For hates sake, I spit my last breathe at thee."
If you don't like getting more mark it's your problem, not mine.
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
My character Tsin'xing
I have been trying to get it nerfed
I hate is that hole in building you jump over
I think what needs to happen is they give team the bonus not the individual it
it would stop I think or limit to 3 or 4 so not fair what they are doing to exploit fleet marks
they are usin 12 Omega for stealth
My very next match after that incident I decided not to run and advanced as a team, second colonist died, third diplomat botched. Third colonist barely lived because I left a firefight to get him. This is the pattern I see, you need a runner, hopefully two.
There are lots of times I'm not the runner and I do my role in the back of the group. Yes I die more there but who cares, my job becomes dps. Just get up and kill some more.
I think the objection to runners comes from people that get especially offended by seeing their characters die. I run colony invasion many times per day and my overwhelming experience is that teams are not capable of advancing as a unit to objectives in time. There are new people that don't know where to go, folks with poor skills/dps... you just can't count on a strong team. If I don't see anybody else running I will always go do it. Each career has the means of pulling it off.
I appreciate runners, all of them except those that taunt in team chat about how you would have sucked without them. I know better because I could have just as easily gotten those objectives myself.
You talk about npc's spawning as you approach targets, but what about the timers? Those don't suddenly begin as you get near, timers are what I'm trying to beat. Also, the npc that spawns for the last critical data download does not do so prematurely if I wander through that area. Best to get things while unchallenged.
Play however you want though, I can survive you and you me. I average 30 marks regardless.
Anyway... Colony invasion is not a STF and I get the impression that most people just do it for a 'break' from grind maps. The validity of 'procedure' complaints about other players on STF's is debatable, but raging (not directed at anyone who has posted btw) about doing colony invasion 'right' is just plain silly in my opinion. I mean come on... in the grand scheme of things there's not really a great deal of difference between getting 12 and 25 fleet marks...
If they know what they are doing.
In fact the most successful Colony Invasion runs I have been in are when a "runner" (sometimes me) manages to actually score all the objectives.
NEVER have I seen or been in a team that moved methodically forward like a unit that got all objectives. Not Once. Almost every time I am either the "runner" or watch a tac Guy take off using stealth, all objectives get met.
I have no idea why someone would complain about people helping them do better at the mission and earn more Fleet Marks.
Because usually the runner is braindead and aggro's every mob they come across. I was in a Colony Invasion earlier and they'd dragged the boss mob back to the 6th mobs spawn point and aggro'd the monkey for added giggles. That was the 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th spawns of Hirogen plus the monkey that the other 4 were having to deal with whilst the idiot that aggro'd them hid around the corner under stealth. I thought he was trolling but from the incoherent typing in chat I think he was just on day release and high on prozac, either that or came from a very shallow gene pool.
The runners aren't a problem if they're careful not to aggro all the other mobs but that's rarely the case in my experience, and when they're not all they're doing is making the whole experience more painful for everyone else by dragging those aggro'd NPCs back to the rest of the group. Considering many of the NPCs in there are using damage types with limited available resistance (Breen and Cold, Undine and Psionic and the Hirogen with the Tetryon that seems much more effective than mine) those extra mobs make things really annoying for the rest of the group.
I consider it completely unimportant who in the party will vote, or how; but what is extraordinarily important is this
Well I did add the words "if they know what they are doing" to my statement. You are correct that someone who doesn't understand the job , shouldn't be a runner. At most you have to aggro 1 extra mob for the group and thats the one at the 2nd colonist.
It sounds like you ran into someone who was griefing you guys by spawning all the mobs. Still even then , if they got all the objectives, then why complain ? Yeah , it's a harder , action movie fight against tons of bad guys, BUT the objectives are complete AND your fleet mark reward is locked in.
I can see it being a pain getting caught in a giant never ending mob, but if all objectives were met ... cheerio ! pip pip ! happy day ! Full Marks !
And that's the problem, usually they don't. I can think of only one time that a runner didn't aggro everything in there path, otherwise it's just a huge mess.
Oh, he wasn't trolling. Someone in the group called him a ****** for aggroing everything and he said he didn't know you could get the optionals without aggroing them. He'd just seen someone else run ahead and assumed you just ran forward toward the optionals without realising that managing the aggro is just as important.
Personally I don't play for the marks, I play Colony Invasion because it's one of the few actually challenging ground encounters that requires some measure of competence without resorting to one shotting NPCs (at least in a PuG). The marks are useful but I'd rather get all but one of the optionals and enjoy the encounter than get them all and spend all my time clearing up someone else's mess.
It's not like the fleet marks are even hard to get so missing out on a couple of fleet marks is hardly the end of the world.
I consider it completely unimportant who in the party will vote, or how; but what is extraordinarily important is this
Wrong, many people don't like running after marks, yet they are important if you are ahead of a 1800 or more marks grind with only a handfull of players in the fleet.
Those stupid cooldowns plus the relatively awfull reward vs effort of many missions make things very tedious.
So, for many people and espcially in PUGs, the correct recipe is to make less runs, as fast as possible, with the best possible mark reward.
Since colony invasion is a short mission with an ok mark reward and since solo running ahead insure that you will get the maximum possible quantity of marks regardless of the skill of your team the best strat is to run ahead to secure objectives and let the team deal with the rest.
It's a Human thing, people will always take the shortest and easiest way to their goal and bad luck for you the easy mark road passes in colony invasion.
And tbh, just like said above, if you can't deal with it then leave, someone will be happy to take your room and get easy marks.
I'm in a very small fleet and we're currently at T3 in Military and Science with Engineering approaching Tier 3. With 3 assignments active daily the only thing we're never short of is Fleet Marks, Dilithiumis the only thing that ever holds things up due to being unable to refine enough of it. And that's a fleet with maybe 3 active players (log in every day) and 4 or 5 casuals that might log in once or twice a week.
Edit to add; That's a fleet mark requirement of 2400 per day and that small group manages it without grinding. DOffs can really take the sting out of the requirements. If anything will hold it up it'll be Dilithium, every time.
I'll play wherever the hell I like if it's OK with you. If you actually read what I wrote you'd see I don't have a problem with runners, just those that can't manage to do it without TRIBBLE over anyone else in the process. If you can do it then great, good for you but seeing as I specifically mentioned those that aggro everything on the map then I don't see why you bring the attitude.
I consider it completely unimportant who in the party will vote, or how; but what is extraordinarily important is this
Our fleet might be a little bigger than yours, but probably about the same, we have around 4-5 die hards and 4-5 casual. Most of the requirements are not a problem, but FMs is always a struggle. It is interesting to see two fleets with an almost a similar amount of players seem to struggle with different sides to the requirements.
True, I do don't see the problem with runners that can do it properly. It is the nubs that agro the entire map and drag them all back to the whole group that annoys me. Nothing better than having 3 Dahar masters and 20 other adds beating down on you.
Well you'll have to explain your recipe because we are just like blitzsth and to quote him "FMs is always a struggle".
On the other hand we have actualy no issue with dili out of limited time projects and without buying zen (but i guess none of us ever buy things in the shop of dili store).
Well first part of my answer was for your quote while the last one about leaving group wasn't, it was more general for all those complaining about runners.
I stand to it tho because of course, and hopefully, you play the way you want to but the guy running ahead and agroing every single mob does the same !
I admit tho i have a hard time to understand how a solo runner can possibly agro boss + guards and the pack of mobs before him, without doing this on purpose, and save the last colonist under fire.