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Odyssey Tactical, Vesta, or Assault Cruiser?
djf021
Member Posts: 1,382 Arc User
Sorry I confused some people, but in the title, I meant "Regent", NOT "Vesta". Sorry!
Hello all,
I'm looking for a good tactical based cruiser. I'm a science captain, but in my time since January playing this game, I've discovered I'm really best at tanking, and cruisers do that best. I've learned how to use a combination of engineering and science Boff abilities to keep myself alive while drawing fire pretty darn well if I may say so myself. While I'm doing that, I want to do as much DPS as possible in a cruiser. I know, I know, science captains are best in science ships, etc, yada yada yada. I agree for the most part and I RESPECT that general opinion. But I've learned my auxiliary specs give me stronger science abilities when I use them, even in a cruiser. Anyway, here's my actual question:
WHICH OF THESE THREE TACTICAL CRUISERS LISTED ABOVE WOULD YOU RECOMMEND?
Some of my first thoughts:
I OWN the "Mirror Universe Assault Cruiser" which is basically the exact same ship as the "prime universe assult cruiser"-the Sovereign class. Capable, but without any special abilities and fewer console slots. I think this ship is kinda awesome for a standard tier 5 ship, and have learned to tank very well in Elite STFs.
Maybe it's "flavor of the month fever", but I'm eying the assault cruiser refit, Regent class. It has a Lt commander tactical slot, giving me better Boff abilities, and the Metreon Gas module SOUNDS awesome. I imagine it helping me blow up Borg gateways. (Don't know if it actually is awesome, though, any first hand help would be appreciated.) The wide angle torpedo launcher sounds cool, and could come in handy while I'm attacking broadside, saving me from having to turn to fire them. But not sure if it's a quantum or photon or what, and what the modifiers are on it. (AGAIN, someone please tell me.) As for the universal Lt slot, let's face it, I'm gonna put in a science officer. It has three Tactical consoles, same as the Tier 5 Assault cruiser.
Finally, a ship I've been looking at for some time is the Tactical Odyssey cruiser. It has a Lt commander Tactical slot (assuming I put in Tactical officer, and this IS about Tac cruisers) AND the Lt slot, making it a bit better than Regent, and it also has the Aquarius escort module, which sounds pretty cool. However, I don't know if the Aquarius escort is a better asset than the Regent's Metreon gas canisters. Any opinions on this? This ship also has three Tactical consoles like the other two, so in pure DPS from the weapons, (not considering Boff abilities) I'm assuming they are all basically the same.
Sorry the post was so long, but there you go. PLEASE, PLEASE, I want to hear from owners of both the Tactical Oddy and the Regent class. Tell me what you think is better overall, and which of the two have better "special abilities."
Thanks!
Hello all,
I'm looking for a good tactical based cruiser. I'm a science captain, but in my time since January playing this game, I've discovered I'm really best at tanking, and cruisers do that best. I've learned how to use a combination of engineering and science Boff abilities to keep myself alive while drawing fire pretty darn well if I may say so myself. While I'm doing that, I want to do as much DPS as possible in a cruiser. I know, I know, science captains are best in science ships, etc, yada yada yada. I agree for the most part and I RESPECT that general opinion. But I've learned my auxiliary specs give me stronger science abilities when I use them, even in a cruiser. Anyway, here's my actual question:
WHICH OF THESE THREE TACTICAL CRUISERS LISTED ABOVE WOULD YOU RECOMMEND?
Some of my first thoughts:
I OWN the "Mirror Universe Assault Cruiser" which is basically the exact same ship as the "prime universe assult cruiser"-the Sovereign class. Capable, but without any special abilities and fewer console slots. I think this ship is kinda awesome for a standard tier 5 ship, and have learned to tank very well in Elite STFs.
Maybe it's "flavor of the month fever", but I'm eying the assault cruiser refit, Regent class. It has a Lt commander tactical slot, giving me better Boff abilities, and the Metreon Gas module SOUNDS awesome. I imagine it helping me blow up Borg gateways. (Don't know if it actually is awesome, though, any first hand help would be appreciated.) The wide angle torpedo launcher sounds cool, and could come in handy while I'm attacking broadside, saving me from having to turn to fire them. But not sure if it's a quantum or photon or what, and what the modifiers are on it. (AGAIN, someone please tell me.) As for the universal Lt slot, let's face it, I'm gonna put in a science officer. It has three Tactical consoles, same as the Tier 5 Assault cruiser.
Finally, a ship I've been looking at for some time is the Tactical Odyssey cruiser. It has a Lt commander Tactical slot (assuming I put in Tactical officer, and this IS about Tac cruisers) AND the Lt slot, making it a bit better than Regent, and it also has the Aquarius escort module, which sounds pretty cool. However, I don't know if the Aquarius escort is a better asset than the Regent's Metreon gas canisters. Any opinions on this? This ship also has three Tactical consoles like the other two, so in pure DPS from the weapons, (not considering Boff abilities) I'm assuming they are all basically the same.
Sorry the post was so long, but there you go. PLEASE, PLEASE, I want to hear from owners of both the Tactical Oddy and the Regent class. Tell me what you think is better overall, and which of the two have better "special abilities."
Thanks!
Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you. Don't let them do anything that takes you off the bridge of that ship, because while you're there... you can make a difference.
-Captain James T. Kirk
Post edited by djf021 on
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Secondly, the Vesta is not available. I am itching to fly one myself, but until then...
Personally, I would skip the Regent, the overall reviews of it so far are lack luster, mainly about the $25 skin and console. Stick with either a prime assault cruiser or Mirror Star Cruiser. Great ships, and cheap as well.
If you really want to hand over money in the C-store, purchase a tactical Oddy. The detachable escort is a little bulldog. The Gas Canisters are a more tactical weapon-you have to plan out the attack and then apply it. More often than not, it doesn't work out as well as you hoped.
If you do go the Odyssey route, the Aquarius is really good but I would buy the 3 pack and get all three console for the set bonus, as it does help. Pluse the Chevron Separation and Work Bees come in handy. Its a good ship, but Im enjoying my Assault Cruiser Refit more. (Although I love the Sovereign, so Im a bit biased.)
I thought the Vesta had been deep sixed at this point.
As for the two ships, Metron Gas is not that great I'd avoid it for other universal consuls. The Aquarius has the same problem, it's OK but nothing amazing.
In terms of fire power the Regent is the stronger of the two choices you are considering, it's not as flexible but you can run EPTW1 and EPTS2 cycling with Aux2STR3 and RSP1 for a good PVE tank set up. T:spread 3 and T:spread 2 combined with BFAW1 and near permanent Tac team 1 will make the thing an agg magnet that still puts out good damage while dropping any near by ship with thinning shields. Just be nice and grab TSS and HE with your sci officer for healing teammates.
The Tac Oddy is more versatile and has a thicker shield, it can be the tougher of the two but that's not guaranteed. There's no point in putting a torpedo on a tac ody that doesn't have saucer seperation, it turns to slow to use it.
It ties the Regent for potential Tac Boff powers but would have a Sci Lt instead of an Eng Lt.. I honestly think the Ody can hit the better Boff layout for what you want with Lt.Com Tac, Lt. Tac, Cmdr. Eng, Ensign Sci and Lt. Sci. (That build gets over 90% uptime of EPTS3 and EPTW1 from three Doffs and runs HE1, TSS1 and Scramble Sensors 1)
If you are only going to buy one Ody get the Ops for saucer separation or the Sci for stronger heals and Sensor analysis. The Tac Oddy's extra damage while nice doesn't equate the power of either ability.
So sit down and figure out exactly what you want to do. The Regent seems to do more damage(if abusing T:spreads and tac boff powers) and get's the torpedo launcher cruisers have wanted from the start. The Tac Ody is the tougher ship if set up that way and might be able to out shoot the Regent if set up to try.
As for the Regent, the thing has style and the torpedo is cool and the boff layout does allow you to add an APO1. But otherwise its about the same as the assault cruiser you already have. So is the real question is, is the style, torpedo, and APO1 worth $25 to you? Pretty as the ship is, I'm personally too cheap for that.
The Value of the Regent will change when they put the fleet version back up AND your fleet is high enough to get it. IF it's like the fleet version that was up on tribble long ago with that 10th Console being a tac.
That said, I have almost every Cruiser on the fed side. And sadly, Despite my Not liking it's looks, The Tac Oddy is the best of the bunch. With Damage Control Doffs, like already said above, you can have almost same uptime for EPTS/EPTW abilities with only 1 copy. (Which IMO negates the need for any Cruiaer to have more then a Cammander Boff slot.)
Giving you a LCT, and a Luit Tac boff slots. 5 Tac Boff abilities, in this DPS heavy game a cruiser with that much is huge.
I have all 3 Oddy's. But being a broadsider, I dont use Seperation. I personally feel if your gonna equip a cruiser like an escort, Get in an escort and do it properly. I flew it that way for awhile. I don't use any of the 3 Consoles that come with it anymore. I use Point Defense, Vent Theta, and Borg Uni for Universal Consoles.
Gonna be at a Dilema IF the Fleet Assault comes out with 4 Tac Consoles. With my setup, which I love. I'd have to give up a Ensign Sci, and a Tac ability for a Luit Eng. Which IMO is too many Engie abilities. Id have to drop the Doffs and Run EPTW,EPTS 2 on that extra Engie slot.
Losing a Tac and a Heal for a 4th Tac Console. But the Imperial looks nice, so Id have to.
OP here. Thanks for the replies so far. I might not have made it clear, but I'm talking about TACTICAL ABILITIES, not LOOKS. So YES, my Mirror Assualt Curiser is the same as the PRIME ASSUALT CUISER. In TACTICAL ABILITIES, not looks.
Also TO ALL WHO WERE CONFUSED, I accidentally called the Regent cruiser a "VESTA". I don't know why, had a brain dump. When I realized it too late.
Keep your thoughts coming, I appreciate it.
Joseph
Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you. Don't let them do anything that takes you off the bridge of that ship, because while you're there... you can make a difference.
-Captain James T. Kirk
I also think this is a good point. The sensor analysis only gives me top effectiveness if I keep the same target for a whole minute. In Elite STFs, especially with a good team, a sphere is gone in about 10 seconds. And in PVP, it's not often smart to stay trained on one target that long. I imagine I'd much rather have an extra 25% (approx) DPS ALL THE TIME than to depend on 33% only if I get up to that minute long weapon lock.
Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you. Don't let them do anything that takes you off the bridge of that ship, because while you're there... you can make a difference.
-Captain James T. Kirk
then its easy.
Tac Oddy, 5 Tac Boff slots. 6 is you also use the Ensign Uni
Regent, 4 Tac Boff Slots.
Both have 3 tac consoles, but the regent one day may get a 4th.
First: You're looking for a mega-tank, and you want a tactical cruiser. While hardly impossible, this is sub-optimal. If you want a high tanking cruiser, then your best choices are the Science Odyssey (I would not recommend the Ops Odyssey, although it's got saucer sep which is VERY important if you want to be able to switch to agile-fight mode), the Galaxy-R, and the Star Cruiser.
Ultimately you're going to have to decide which way you want to lean - DPS or tanking. Tactical cruisers lean DPS, tanking cruisers lean eng or sci. All cruisers can tank, just that some have more of an edge in one department or another.
So let's take a look at the options you've presented.
* Assault Cruiser - the stock Assault Cruiser is basically the 'default' end-game cruiser, and it continues to be competitive. Very very well balanced, and it can do just about anything you want it to. I would say you'd do well in this. HOWEVER, the Mirror Assault Cruiser is a VERY SLIGHTLY BETTER TANK. It has 1000 crew, whereas the regular AC has 800. This does have a small, but measurable effect on your hull regeneration rate. So they are close but not purely, identical. The AC is a unique beast in some regards, though, seeing as how it's basically poised dead-center among all the cruisers in terms of capabilities - it's not the best at anything, but it's good enough that it can often take two categories and break a superior, focused opponent. I hear fairly regularly that AC's in the hands of the right players are an absolute nightmare to fight.
* Regent - This is a weaker tank by a bit due to shuffling around of BOff slots, but it has higher DPS. If you like to live dangerously you can slot a tac into the universal slot and use it to break things, but most people who want to live period will slot in the science officer, as you indicated. However, this is not really a huge loss IMO. It is not, however, as good at tanking as the default AC - it simply isn't.
* Tactical Odyssey - Let's look at what the tac Ody offers. Big, slow, heavy armor, ten consoles, heavy firepower, Aquarius, extra console for weapons, +10 weapon power bonus. Not too shabby, but let's take a closer look. First off, if you want to hit hard you're going to need to slot a Tac into the Lt. Cmdr slot (and possibly an Engineer in the Ensign slot for an EPtW chain or something like that). This is actually IMO a pretty good combo, and I run it, but if your main goal is to be a mega-tank it's sub-optimal. If you want a superior tanking layout with this ship you'll need to borrow the layout from the AC or the Star Cruiser, really. Which negates much of its tac-ness.
The Aquarius, unfortunately, is IMO a waste of a console slot. I'd ditch it. Although some people can make it work, I have nicknamed it the Barge of the Dead.
However, the Tac Ody is NOT the most optimum tank ever. Although it does have heavier armor (42K HP) than almost any other ship and a 1.15 shield modifier that helps to mitigate it, simple fact of the matter is you've still got the fundamental DPS vs. endurance trade-off for BOffs, and if you want to hit hard you're going to have to sacrifice a bit of endurance, and vice-versa.
Metreon Gas vs. Aquarius - IMO? Both pretty much suck, sad to say. However, as a science officer you might be spec'd into things like Particle Generators, which might make you better at getting the most out of it. IIRC I heard that this stat can boost the DPS, but I don't know the details.
The 180 degree qtorp, however, is pure awesome. I now equip it on any cruiser I'm going to send out, although I'm probably not going to use it on my escorts (they probably don't need it).
My personal thoughts: That is a TOUGH one. I am a tac leaning player by nature (even though my first toon was an engineer). If you want to hit as hard as possible, dump the AC from the list - she's good but she's not going to match the firepower of either. Although the Tactical Odyssey will let you switch your BOff slots around more so you have more "value" there if it turns you you don't like your original plan. However, the Regent is also a very solid craft. Truth be told, it's reminding me more and more of a permanent saucer-sep Ody with more endurance and less speed.
So my thoughts on what are BEST? I can't tell you. This is the crux of the thread I posted (except the Excel-R is in the Regent's place). I can say however, that IMO the value of a tac Ody goes up immensely if you have the three-pack, because you can then slot in saucer separation (IMO the most important console in the set), and work bees (helpful for both healing and tanking), and you get some tanking, turning, set cooldown and energy bonuses if you have all three equipped. I do know however that both the Regent and the Odyssey are capable, hard-hitting ships that have a lot to offer. I also know that, from PERSONAL preference? I'd probably only pick up the Ody pack (as I did), because the Ody is too dang slow without saucer sep as an option. While I'm happy with my purchase of the Odyssey pack, I don't think I would be happy if I had only one of them, except MAYBE the Ops Ody - as much as I hate the hull, saucer sep is invaluable to me.
That said, there is a downside if you consider picking up the Ody pack, one that few note - it eats up your console slots if you equip the set. Seriously. Your 10-console pseudo-fleet cruiser becomes a powerful cruiser with many toys, but one with only seven console slots. It's a difficult choice to figure out where to, say, slip in the Borg console.
I wish I could give you more advice, but I'm in the same boat, really, but hopefully my observations will at least help.
As a final note, if you decide to go with the Science Odyssey, while Sensor Analysis is good, it takes, IIRC, over a minute of dedicated, unbroken lock against an opponent to catch up to and surpass the damage potential of having three tactical consoles instead of two. I would not recommend it as a DPS-centric cruiser, although for your particular situation it might work out pretty well, seeing as how IMO the Aquarius isn't very good, and it has the best AUX bonus of all the cruisers.
i generaly agree with your statements...but i think you are off with the one minute of sensor analysis to surpas the 3rd tactical console.
in my experiance it takes about 30 sec or less to surpass the tactical console (rare mkxi)...
also if the 3 set pieces didn't have the additional stats to: +12 Starship Hull Plating
+12 Starship Armor Reinforcements
+12 Starship Electro-Plasma System
it would really be wiser to leave the aquarius in the dock. but looking at the 2 other consoles as quit good and the 3rd as the console that gives those stats, it is acceptable.
as i understand it, the aquarius also has a point defense system build into it, that seems usefull in certain situations in a fighter rich environment.
30 seconds is great, except the only thing you'll be shooting at for that long in an STF is a Tactical Cube or a Gateway. Otherwise, the enemies (Spheres, or Probes) you're shooting at die well before you've surpassed the amount of damage you get from a Tac Console. So might as well go with the Tac Cruiser and get the extra outright damage.
Note that I am not saying that DPS will take 60 seconds to surpass. I am saying the damage TOTAL will take 60 seconds to surpass. There was a spreadsheet posted on the forums (I'll look it up when I have more time) that had this all worked out, and I believe it came in at around a full minute for the accumulated damage (assuming you were firing the entire time) of the SA Science Ody to surpass that of a three-tac-console Tac Ody, or something along those lines.
There's also the fact that a number of opponents can give you the slip, at least in PvP, and at least a few in PvE that can do so (e.g. Sensor Jamming, cloaking, etc.) On a recent PvP excursion someone managed to slip out of my sensor lock on my Science Odyssey repeatedly (SOMEHOW - I don't know /what/ he was running but it seemed like it kept refocusing sensor lock at something else), and as a result kicked my face in but good. I'm pretty sure I might have had a chance at victory if I had the Tactical Odyssey, but as-is I just couldn't muster up the firepower to match his attack rate, because SA was barely useful at all.
Another thing to note is that while the target lock lingers, you lose the SA buff if you switch targets, which includes both to other opponents and helping comrades or one of your deployed pets. This ought to give one pause, especially since the Science Ody's work bee console is INTENDED to help others (along with yourself).
Now, switching to Regent, Id be able to add maybe Attack pattern Beta to the tactical mix, and Id only lose Aux to structural from my Eng abilities, which i have found to be underwhelming IMO. I think it works much better to keep the shields up anyway. plus i love broadsiding, so the wide angle quantum sounds perfect for a rear arc. what do you think?
Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you. Don't let them do anything that takes you off the bridge of that ship, because while you're there... you can make a difference.
-Captain James T. Kirk
I would suggest including Aux2SIF3 and ditch Aceton Beam, the long cooldown mixed with IMO underwhelming performance and the moderate turnrate of an Assault Cruiser makes this a bit of a waste of a commander slot. There's a reason so many BOffs come with it standard.
I would also suggest you consider EPtS3. I don't recall what level RSP starts at, but you may want something like this:
Cmdr Eng - Aux2SIF3, EPtS3, RSP1, EPtS1
Lt Eng - RSP1, ET1
OR
Cmdr Eng - Aux2SIF3, EPtS3, EPtS2, EPtW1
Lt Eng - RSP1, EPtW1
I wouldn't put too much faith in APB. The Attack Patterns are ideal for a tac, because they come with Attack Pattern Alpha, which is probably their most important single captain-level buff, ergo why it makes sense to dump points into the Starship Attack Patterns skill to get at least 6 levels of it. I'm not sure it's so great for the other professions, though.
You may be better served by chaining two copies of TT1, and filling out the other tac slots with HYT2 or TS2, and BO3. I have heard that BO1 is underwhelming, but I have also heard that BO3 is like having a junior version of the Dreadnaught's lance. You may also consider BFaW.
Not a bad idea, but I'm looking for specifically a tactical cruiser, instead of a science vessel.
Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you. Don't let them do anything that takes you off the bridge of that ship, because while you're there... you can make a difference.
-Captain James T. Kirk
absolutely true...notice also that aceton beam 1 has sufficent damage rdeuction and has a much much much lower cd...also the aceton beam 2 is even lower. could never figure out why they made aceton 3 with that massive CD. makes no sense, since the damage of this ability is neglegeable.
And aux2SIF3 is a crazy good ability, dmg resi+moderate instant heal+fast CD
I stopped using AB for a long time, uuntil recently i realized it's not so much the damage, bit the damage RESISTENCE it gives from enemy weapons. But I'll keep looking into other options.As for APB, i figured it would be good to hot them with a damage resistence debiff, but you're right-as a science captain I'm not specced onto attack paterns at all. I'll definately figure out a chain for TT1 and 2.
Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you. Don't let them do anything that takes you off the bridge of that ship, because while you're there... you can make a difference.
-Captain James T. Kirk
But you also wanted to talk about being a tank, and you are a science toon. Having a commander level science boff is probably just as strong for you as having higher level tactical boff slots.
This is why asking for advice is such a good idea, gives me a lot to think about. But let me ask this: is the damage resistance part of Aceton beam not useful? According to the Wiki, it reduces your enemy's energy damage on you by 300 percent! Is that correct, or does it sound better than it actually is? What I was thinking was if I can reduce the damage to my shields, I can keep them up longer, therefore nulifying the need for extra damage resistance for the hull. Is that nieve?
Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you. Don't let them do anything that takes you off the bridge of that ship, because while you're there... you can make a difference.
-Captain James T. Kirk